DELIVER US FROM DELIVERANCE MINISTERS

[7seasrekeyed]

Ah generational curses.
To be honest I'm can't say I truly disagree either.

I see patterns in believers that are carried over from the curse of the previous generations.

But I do think that curse was broken and is broken in a believer.

The question is, if it's carried over how is the believer relesed from this.

Enjoying talking with you by the way.

I enjoy talking with you too!

I never gave them a thought and then I read Derek Princes' book 'Blessing or Curse you can Choose' which got me thinking and I read it because of difficulties in my life that kept repeating and I saw the same in my father's life and I am alot like him

I believe if they are there, they have no more power over us...Jesus broke that chain and freed us but we can still act in certain ways...like little robots...until we reach out and accept that victory for us and tell the devil to take it elsewhere

God will make sense to us in ways, perhaps, that will not make sense to another which is part of our relationship with Him

but having said that, He does not go against His own word and His Spirit does not teach things outside of scripture...as in new revelations...for sure we can and do attain to deeper understanding, but a new understanding as in 'we don't have to listen to the words of Jesus because He was living under the law' (yeah that is being taught be some) is not from God

be back later

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Most Christians oppose themselves and are taken captive by Satan at his will (oppression). Acts 10:38 KJV

If any born-again Christian Faith is not placed and maintained exclusively in Jesus Christ and the Cross of Calvary where the victory was won, the bible says we oppose our own selves and then taken captive by Satan at his will (2 Timothy 2:24-26). This is called the "Law of sin and death." The only law that is more powerful than the "Law of sin and death," is "The Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus (Romans 8:2)." Failure to place your Faith in who Jesus is and what Jesus has done, frustrates Grace and the Cross of Christ becomes of no benefit to you (Gal. 5:4). The Believer now enters the work of the flesh (Gal. 5:19-21) and the sin nature is revived and they are taken captive by Satan through bondage and sin.

I am not speaking about acts of sin, but spiritual adultery that is very serious! The scripture teaches us that when the hedge comes down, the serpent will bite (Ecclesiastes 10:8).

The servant of God is the deliverance minister who God has anointed (2 Timothy 2:24-26).
​

you just keep on trying to teach everyone what you believe and what you believe they ought also to believe

your response does not define the office of a deliverance minister but I truly understand that you believe you have qualified it just the same

thanks

that demons exist and that Christians can give them place I think has been illustrated by scripture alone, but scripture does not relay dealing with them as the office of an expert, but instead we are told that each Christian should deal with them as the need arises

our life is in Christ. he is our Deliverer

 

[BillG]

I enjoy talking with you too!

I never gave them a thought and then I read Derek Princes' book 'Blessing or Curse you can Choose' which got me thinking and I read it because of difficulties in my life that kept repeating and I saw the same in my father's life and I am alot like him

I believe if they are there, they have no more power over us...Jesus broke that chain and freed us but we can still act in certain ways...like little robots...until we reach out and accept that victory for us and tell the devil to take it elsewhere

God will make sense to us in ways, perhaps, that will not make sense to another which is part of our relationship with Him

but having said that, He does not go against His own word and His Spirit does not teach things outside of scripture...as in new revelations...for sure we can and do attain to deeper understanding, but a new understanding as in 'we don't have to listen to the words of Jesus because He was living under the law' (yeah that is being taught be some) is not from God

be back later

I is if off to bed.

I do have some Derek Prince stuff but not the book your mention.
I will look it up.
Catch to tomorrow.

Night night to you all.
As you sleep may God bless you as you sleep.
Wake up tomorrow knowing that his mercies are new every morning.

For those of you starting your day or are in the day.
God bless you.
And I pray the same for you when you go to sleep.

May we ask remember and never forget.

God loves us as much as he loves Jesus.
Jesus says it and he is not a liar.

Night night peeps

Bill

 

[7seasrekeyed]

well I'm still here after all...but leaving right after this

good night and I love the reference to God's mercies being new every morning!

 

[valleyofdecision]

have not quite heard that definition before

suppose one could say

Jesus our truth

Jesus is our righteousness

Jesus is the gospel or gospel message

Jesus is our salvation and He is the word...word sword of the spirit...what we do is in His name

and our faith in Him is our protection or shield

guess it could go that way

but I see the armor through both testaments and we can say Jesus is both

anyway, a good study and understanding the picture of the Roman soldier's defense in battle helps to remember it all

Jesus is the gospel or gospel message-

~Eph 6:15~
and having shod your feet with the preparation of the gospel of peace;

The gospel mentioned here could be the peace of the Gospel, but I never saw it written in the word this way. I interpret it to mean put on the battle boots of the good news of peace. Jesus' peace keeps our feet underneath us in the battle. If a Roman soldier lost his footing and went down it was certain death.

It cannot be salvation gospel, because the helmet is that gospel.

I do not believe Eph 6:15 is speaking about ~Isaiah 52:7~

How lovely on the mountains
Are the feet of him who brings good news,
Who announces peace
And brings good news of happiness,
Who announces salvation,
And says to Zion, “Your God reigns!”


I believe it is talking about wearing our Peace of God, not to be confused with Peace with God, which is salvation.

~Colossians 3:15~

[SUP]15 [/SUP]Let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts, to which indeed you were called in one body; and be thankful.

~Romans 16:20~

[SUP]20 [/SUP]The God of peace will soon crush Satan under your feet.
The grace of our Lord Jesus be with you.

Just my take.

 

[valleyofdecision]

we do choose, but not if you have a certain belief that tells you that you are basically chosen or not chosen

I sure don't want to start with that

right. God through Moses said 'Choose this day who you are going to serve' we make choices all day long

however, strongholds do occur and demonic footholds in people's lives do exist and many are far from grabbing the life preserver but instead are hoping to be pulled in with the rope someone threw them

I believe Paul wanted to create independence from people and dependence upon God and I see it that way...else how could anyone stand in the evil day as Ephesians states?

I don't think we have had the question of demons and Christians answered yet

I do believe demons can infiltrate a believers life or someone who becomes a believer can need to deal with the inroads made before they were saved

it is as simple as a choice but making many wrong choices has consequences

Totally agree

 

[valleyofdecision]

As I have said myself.
I do not think that a beliver can be demonically possessed.
I do believe though that they can be oppressed and vexed.

I personally do not believe in generational curses being passed on to a believer.
When a believer comes to Jesus they are a new creation, they are in Jesus.


But I do believe that a person who is not a believer can give the devil a foothold that carries over when they become a believer.

But I would also say that such a person may need another believers help and wisdom to help them.

thank you for the great post! Generational curses are not Biblical under the new covenant.

 

[valleyofdecision]

Most Christians oppose themselves and are taken captive by Satan at his will (oppression). Acts 10:38 KJV

If any born-again Christian Faith is not placed and maintained exclusively in Jesus Christ and the Cross of Calvary where the victory was won, the bible says we oppose our own selves and then taken captive by Satan at his will (2 Timothy 2:24-26). This is called the "Law of sin and death." The only law that is more powerful than the "Law of sin and death," is "The Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus (Romans 8:2)." Failure to place your Faith in who Jesus is and what Jesus has done, frustrates Grace and the Cross of Christ becomes of no benefit to you (Gal. 5:4). The Believer now enters the work of the flesh (Gal. 5:19-21) and the sin nature is revived and they are taken captive by Satan through bondage and sin.

I am not speaking about acts of sin, but spiritual adultery that is very serious! The scripture teaches us that when the hedge comes down, the serpent will bite (Ecclesiastes 10:8).

The servant of God is the deliverance minister who God has anointed (2 Timothy 2:24-26).
​

You are just pushing JSM heresy.

 

[BillG]

thank you for the great post! Generational curses are not Biblical under the new covenant.

I genuinely do not believe they are. And I have not been convinced they are.
And I have really looked into it.

 

[valleyofdecision]

I genuinely do not believe they are. And I have not been convinced they are.
And I have really looked into it.

Most of the basis for Deliverance ministers who peddle this lie is is found in the Old Testament and is covering Jews under the old Covenant.

~Deut 5:8-10~

[SUP]8 [/SUP]‘You shall not make for yourself an idol, or any likeness of what is in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the water under the earth. [SUP]9 [/SUP]You shall not worship them or serve them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, and on the third and the fourth generations of those who hate Me, [SUP]10 [/SUP]but showing lovingkindness to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.

Most of so called generational curses is learned addictive behaviors people learn.

Great grand pappy was drunk, grandpappy was drunk, pappy was a drunk, so I am drunk. Was this learned addictive behavior? or is it a generational curse?

 

[Gabriel2020]

GALATIANS;3; 28-29; There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female ;for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 29; And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham;s seed,and heirs according to the promise................ABRAHAM'S seed are everyone that have the same faith as he did.

 

[Ariel82]

the bible verses that speak AGAINST the belief of generational curses is found in two places:

Jereemiah 31 and Ezekial 18

when GOD declares that the Jewish proverb "The father eat bitter grapes and the son's mouth puckers" to no longer be used, because person will be judged based upon their own sin NOT their fathers.

 

[Ariel82]

you just keep on trying to teach everyone what you believe and what you believe they ought also to believe

your response does not define the office of a deliverance minister but I truly understand that you believe you have qualified it just the same

thanks

that demons exist and that Christians can give them place I think has been illustrated by scripture alone, but scripture does not relay dealing with them as the office of an expert, but instead we are told that each Christian should deal with them as the need arises

our life is in Christ. he is our Deliverer

just as each Christian should speak as an ORACLE of God, yet people fall short of that one too.

 

[oldethennew]

There is no spiritual gift of discernment, there is a spiritual gift of discerning of spirits and your definition is correct. I would be careful confusing the 2 because there is no gift of discernment.

=======================================

you are in total error and have much to learn...

 

[oldethennew]

thank you for the great post! Generational curses are not Biblical under the new covenant.

=====================================

oh quite the contrary, they certainly are! just be real and take a reality check
on the different members of your own families and their actions and life-styles...

 

[Angela53510]

for some reason, I thought folks would try to base their responses on scripture

where in scripture do we find an actual deliverance minister? as in the other offices, gifts or callings?

how are demons addressed? did people wait for the deliverance minister to show up?

did Paul or someone send for the demon buster? (not trying to be funny)

opinions abound (I am not referencing this thread when I say that so please don't anyone take that personal) and we prob all know about the myriad of books written on the subject...some prob valid and others best left in the fiction section

I was just wondering how people viewed the term 'deliverance minister' and if they could show, from scripture, that such an individual exists

Well, it is pretty hard to post Sciptures about ”deliverance ministries” when there are none! There is the five fold office in Ephesians 4:11, there are gifts of the Holy Spirit, in various places Romans 12:6-8; 1 Cor. 12:8-10, 28; 1 Peter 4:11 none of which are “deliverance.”

But, Jesus did do deliverance, and so did Paul in Acts 16 with the servant girl.

“She continued to do this for many days. But Paul became greatly annoyed, and turned and said to the spirit, “I command you in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her!” And it came out of her at once.” Acts 16:18

So, deliverance is Scriptural, but a ministry? Not seeing that.

In fact, last year, I had a friend I was supposed to see, in Edmonton, who had been going through depression. She canceled, because she had been to a deliverance person, and ended up feeling much worse afterwards. Surprise, surprise! I wonder how much she had to pay for that?

Which brings me to my point, that if there is no such thing as a deliverance ministry in the Bible, and yet, someone makes you pay for it, probably not from God. I would say more an obsession with the demonic. My friend was from South America, and always got off track about demons. I don’t know how many times several of us had to show her Scriptures to dispel myths and primitive ideas which she could only have gotten growing up in the Catholic Church in South America. (Several of the friends were from there, and this is what they told me!)

So, why do I believe in deliverance? Back when I was a new Christian, little more than a year in the faith, I had my second child and sunk into post partum depression. It wasn’t long, but it was real. I went to church one Sunday and the pastor wanted people who needed to be prayed for to put up their hands. I put mine up, and I was surrounded by people praying. Now, no one cast away any oppressive demons, or shouted or did anything untoward. Instead, it was just deep, sincere prayer. I just felt walls and barriers melting away, and the depression was gone.

So, that is what a real deliverance ministry should be, IMHO. The body of Christ, praying with those who have needs! I hope that answers the questions.

 

[MessageOfTheCross]

Most Christians oppose themselves and are taken captive by Satan at his will (oppression). Acts 10:38 KJV

If any born-again Christian Faith is not placed and maintained exclusively in Jesus Christ and the Cross of Calvary where the victory was won, the bible says we oppose our own selves and then taken captive by Satan at his will (2 Timothy 2:24-26). This is called the "Law of sin and death." The only law that is more powerful than the "Law of sin and death," is "The Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus (Romans 8:2)." Failure to place your Faith in who Jesus is and what Jesus has done, frustrates Grace and the Cross of Christ becomes of no benefit to you (Gal. 5:4). The Believer now enters the work of the flesh (Gal. 5:19-21) and the sin nature is revived and they are taken captive by Satan through bondage and sin.

I am not speaking about acts of sin, but spiritual adultery that is very serious! The scripture teaches us that when the hedge comes down, the serpent will bite (Ecclesiastes 10:8).

The servant of God is the deliverance minister who God has anointed (2 Timothy 2:24-26).
​

Why was Paul doing something against his will; he doesn't want to do it, and is trying not to do it, whatever it might be, but finds himself doing it anyway?

​Romans 7

15 For that which I do (the failure) I allow not (should have been translated, "I understand not"; these are not the words of an unsaved man, as some claim, but rather a Believer whois trying and failing): for what I would, that do I not (refers to the obedience he wants to render to Christ, but rather fails; why? as Paul explained, the Believer is married toChrist, but is being unfaithful to Christ by spiritually cohabiting with the Law, which frustrates the Grace of God; that means the Holy Spirit will not help such a person, which guarantees failure [Gal. 2:21]); but what I hate, that do I (refers to sin in his life hates, but finds himself unable to stop; unfortunately, due tothe fact of not understanding the Cross as it refers to Sanctification, this is the plight of most modern Christians).

16 If then I do that which I would not (presents Paul doing something against his will; he doesn't want todo it, and is trying not to do it, whatever it might be, but finds himselfdoing it anyway), I consent unto the Law that it is good (simply means that the Lawof God is working as it is supposed to work; it defines sin, portraying thefact that the sin nature will rule in man's heart if not addressed properly).

17 Now then it is no more I that do it (this has been misconstrued by many! it means, "I may befailing, but it's not what I want to do "; no true Christian wants to sinbecause now the Divine Nature is in his life and it is supposed to rule, notthe sin nature [2 Peter 1:4]), but sin (the sin nature) that dwells in me (despite the fact that some preachers claim the sin nature is gonefrom the Christian, Paul here plainly says that the sin nature is still in theChristian; however, if our Faith remains constant in the Cross, the sin naturewill be dormant, causing us no problem; otherwise, it will cause greatproblems; while the sin nature "dwells" in us, it is not to"rule" in us).

18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwells no good thing (speaks of man's ownability, or rather the lack thereof in comparison to the Holy Spirit, at leastwhen it comes to spiritual things): for to will is present with me (Paul is speaking here of his willpower;regrettably, most modern Christians are trying to live for God by means ofwillpower, thinking falsely that since they have come to Christ, they are nowfree to say "no" to sin; that is the wrong way to look at thesituation; the Believer cannot live for God by the strength of willpower; italone is not enough; the Believer must exercise Faith in Christ, whichautomatically says, "no" to the things of the world); but how to perform that whichis good I find not (outside of the Cross, it is impossible to find a way to do good).

19 For the good that I would I do not (if I depend on self, and not the Cross): but the evil which I would not (don't want to do), that I do (which is exactly what every Believer will do no matter how hard he tries to do otherwise, if he tries to live this outside of the Cross [Gal. 2:20-21]).


20 Now if I do that I would not (which is exactly what will happen if the Believer tries to live this life outside of God's Prescribed Order), it is no more I that do it, but sin (the sin nature) that dwells in me (this emphatically states that the Believer has a sin nature; in the original Greek Text, if it contains the definite article before the word "sin" which originally did read "the sin," it is not speaking of acts of sin, but rather the sin nature or the evil nature; the idea is not getting rid of the sin nature, which actually cannot be done, but rather controlling it, which the Apostle has told us how to do in Rom., Chpts. 6 and 8; when the Trump sounds, we will be changed and there will be no more sin nature [Rom. 8:23]).


21 I find then a Law (does not refer in this case to the Law of Moses, but rather to the "Law of sin and death" [Rom. 8:2]), that, when I would do good, evil (the evil nature) is present with me
(the idea is that the sin nature is always going to be with the Believer; there is no hint in the Greek that its stay is temporary, at least until the Trump sounds; we can successfully address the sin nature in only one way, and that is by Faith in Christ and the Cross, which Paul will detail in the next Chapter).


22 For I delight in the Law of God (refers to the moral Law of God ensconced in the Ten Commandments) after the inward man (refers to the spirit and soul of man which has now been regenerated):


23 But I see another Law in my members (the Law of sin and death desiring to use my physical body as an instrument of unrighteousness), warring against the Law of my mind (this is the Law of desire and willpower), and bringing me into captivity to the Law of sin (the Law of sin and death)
which is in my members (which will function through my members, and make me a slave to the Law of sin and death; this will happen to the most consecrated Christian if that Christian doesn't constantly exercise Faith in Christ and the Cross that all powers of darkness were defeated [Col. 2:14-15])
.

24 O wretched man that I am!(Any Believer who attempts to live for God outside of God's Prescribed Order, which is "Jesus Christ and Him Crucified," will, in fact, live a wretched and miserable existence. This life can only be lived in one way, and that way is the Cross.)Who shall deliver me from the body of this death? (The minute he cries "Who," he finds the path to Victory, for he is now calling upon a Person for help, and that Person is Christ; actually, the Greek Text is masculine, indicating a Person).


25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord (presents Paul revealing the answer to his own question; Deliverance comes through Jesus Christ Alone, and more particularly what Jesus did at Calvary and the Resurrection). So then with the mind I myself serve the Law of God
(the "will" is the trigger, but it within itself can do nothing unless the gun is loaded with explosive power; that Power is the Cross); but with the flesh the Law of sin (if the Believer resorts to the "flesh," [i.e., "self-will, self-effort, religious effort"] which refers to his own ability outside of Christ and the Cross, he will not serve the Law of God, but rather the Law of sin)
.

​

JSM - The Expositor's Study Bible​

​

[SUB][/SUB]​

 

[Angela53510]

You see with what large letters I have written unto you with my own hand. Gal. 6:11

Sorry, but I simply MUST comment on this classic, out of context use of Scripture.

First, who was Paul writing to? The Galatians. Why? To confront doctrinal errors and heresies “another gospel” which had crept into the church. Paul wrote to people he knew.

But he used an amaneusis. That is basically a scribe. Why? Well, for some reason, he wants the Galatians to know it is really him, and since it is not in his own handwriting, he writes at the end in large letters. Paul likely had trouble, probably eye trouble which made it difficult to write in smaller letters. It was preferable to use small letters in a scroll, because they were only so long, and small letters didn’t take up much space. So, he had someone else write out what he said. BUT, he made sure they knew it was him, because he had to write in large letters.

Now, even if this above is wrong (and it is probably right!) Paul for some reason, in the conclusion of his letter, writing a few words in LARGE letters, does not excuse anyone for screaming in large red letters, because no one wants to listen to the out of context interpretation in those letters.

Today, we have important internet conventions, and large letters mean SHOUTING! I think every website I have ever been on, this is well known. So, no, Message, you are NOT Paul, you are not writing to the Galatians and you are shouting at everyone. Just because Paul did it, doesn’t give you the right to do it, especially when the words you made so big to emphasis your point, did not support your point at all!

 

[Ariel82]

Well, it is pretty hard to post Sciptures about ”deliverance ministries” when there are none! There is the five fold office in Ephesians 4:11, there are gifts of the Holy Spirit, in various places Romans 12:6-8; 1 Cor. 12:8-10, 28; 1 Peter 4:11 none of which are “deliverance.”

But, Jesus did do deliverance, and so did Paul in Acts 16 with the servant girl.

“She continued to do this for many days. But Paul became greatly annoyed, and turned and said to the spirit, “I command you in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her!” And it came out of her at once.” Acts 16:18

So, deliverance is Scriptural, but a ministry? Not seeing that.

In fact, last year, I had a friend I was supposed to see, in Edmonton, who had been going through depression. She canceled, because she had been to a deliverance person, and ended up feeling much worse afterwards. Surprise, surprise! I wonder how much she had to pay for that?

Which brings me to my point, that if there is no such thing as a deliverance ministry in the Bible, and yet, someone makes you pay for it, probably not from God. I would say more an obsession with the demonic. My friend was from South America, and always got off track about demons. I don’t know how many times several of us had to show her Scriptures to dispel myths and primitive ideas which she could only have gotten growing up in the Catholic Church in South America. (Several of the friends were from there, and this is what they told me!)

So, why do I believe in deliverance? Back when I was a new Christian, little more than a year in the faith, I had my second child and sunk into post partum depression. It wasn’t long, but it was real. I went to church one Sunday and the pastor wanted people who needed to be prayed for to put up their hands. I put mine up, and I was surrounded by people praying. Now, no one cast away any oppressive demons, or shouted or did anything untoward. Instead, it was just deep, sincere prayer. I just felt walls and barriers melting away, and the depression was gone.

So, that is what a real deliverance ministry should be, IMHO. The body of Christ, praying with those who have needs! I hope that answers the questions.

It's because God is doing the deliverance...not a. Supposed "minister"

 

[Ariel82]

Pop quiz...which of these do YOU see in red bold letters?!?

"While exegesis is the process of drawing out the meaning from a text in accordance with the context and discoverable meaning of its author, eisegesis occurs when a reader imposes his or her interpretation into and onto the text."