DeMystifying the Trinity

[newbirth]

Re: For the 1,000th time...

And I will petition the Father, and He will give you another Comforter, that He may remain with you to the age, the Spirit of Truth, whom the world cannot receive because it does not see Him nor know Him. But you know Him, for He abides with you and shall be in you. I will not leave you orphans; I am coming to you. Yet a little while and the world no longer sees Me, but you see Me. Because I live, you also shall live. In that day you shall know that I am in My Father, and you are in Me, and I am in you. He that has My commandments and keeps them, it is that one who loves Me; and the one that loves Me shall be loved by My Father, and I shall love him and will reveal Myself to him. Judas said to Him, not the Iscariot, Lord, what has happened that You are about to reveal Yourself to us and not at all to the world? Jesus answered and said to him, If anyone loves Me, he will keep My Word, and My Father shall love him. And We will come to him and will make a dwelling place with him. The one who does not love Me does not keep My Words. And the Word which you hear is not Mine but of the Father who sent Me. I have spoken these things to you, abiding with you; but the Comforter, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He shall teach you all things and shall remind you of all things that I said to you. I leave peace to you; My peace I give to you. Not as the world gives I give to you. Let not your heart be troubled, nor let it be timid. You heard that I said to you, I am going away, and I am coming again to you. If you loved Me, you would have rejoiced that I said, I am going to the Father; for My Father is greater than I. And now I have told you before it occurs, that when it shall occur you may believe. I shall no longer speak many things with you, for the ruler of this world is coming, and he has nothing in Me. But that the world may know that I love the Father, even as the Father commanded Me, so I do. Rise up, let us go from here.(John 14.16 – 31)



As context reveals, that while The Comforter is sent in Jesus’ name, He is most definitely NOT Jesus.


Further, you just hamstrung yourself as context shows that Father, Son and Spirit are present with the believers.


This is The Trinity!




And when the Comforter comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of Truth who proceeds from the Father, that One will witness concerning Me.(John 15.26)

to you Jesus is still flesh and blood...and you do not understand he was in God in Spirit form....came to dwell with us in human form...went back to God after he was crucified and returns in us as the HS....it is Christ alone who has responsibility for us ...he is not somewhere resting while someone else is completing his mission...
My friend you simply do not have the knowledge in you.......ask and ye shall receive ...God gives liberally.....

Luke 10:22

All things are delivered to me of my Father: and no man knoweth who the Son is, but the Father; and who the Father is, but the Son, and he to whom the Son will reveal him.

it is the HS who reveals the Father to us .....

Do you deny Jesus is the Truth??? he is no longer flesh and blood ....he is now the Spirit of Truth...do you see it in green in your own post??? well of course you don't see

John 14:6

Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

are you denying Christ in us is that Spirit in us??? well of course you are...
Colossians 1:27
To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

you abide in the doctrine of the trinity which is not in the scripture ....I abide in the doctrine of Christ...and scripture says...
2 John 1:9
Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.

 

[Bowman]

Re: For the 1,000th time...

to you Jesus is still flesh and blood...

Where?

and you do not understand he was in God in Spirit form....

No spirit form mentioned here...

θεον ουδεις εωρακεν πωποτε μονογενης θεος ο ων εις τον κολπον του πατρος εκεινος εξηγησατο

Theon oudeis heōraken pōpote monogenēs Theos ho ōn eis ton kolpon tou Patros ekeinos exēgēsato

No one has seen God at any time; but the unique One, Himself God, who is in the bosom of the Father, that One declares Him. (John 1.18)


More meritless assertions on your part.

came to dwell with us in human form...went back to God after he was crucified and returns in us as the HS....

No mention that The Son is The Holy Spirit in scripture.

You are just making this up.

Again.

it is Christ alone who has responsibility for us ...he is not somewhere resting while someone else is completing his mission...
My friend you simply do not have the knowledge in you.......ask and ye shall receive ...God gives liberally.....

I'm not the one running from scriptural exegesis.

You are.

Therefore, your knowledge of scripture is weak, and you cannot defend your version of it.

Pathetic.

 

[Bowman]

Keep running...

AB...you shouldn't ask for scriptural replies if you don't know what to do with them when they arrive....lol...

Bump......

 

[Elin]

Re: My gerbil puts forth more effort...

What would be 'helpful' is if you were to actually
back-up your own assertions instead of
having me prove you wrong....over.....and over....and over again for you.

You might want to reconsider that notion.

Agreed. . .the word kurios always means "lord" in the NT,

No.
G2962
κύριος
kurios
From κῦρος kuros (supremacy); supreme in authority, that is, (as noun) controller; by implication Mr. (as a respectful title): - God, Lord, master, Sir.

"Implication" is inference, it is not specific meaning.
Yes, the "Lord" Jesus Christ is "God."
But the specific meaning of kurios is "lord," it is not "god."

You have not shown that the definition of kurios is "god,"
nor have you shown that kurios is ever translated "god" in the NT.

So, since kurios means Lord Jesus Christ hundreds of times, it would be helpful if
you supplied three NT verses where the NT writers' use of kurios
is actually translated "God" (preferably not from the KJV),
even though that would not be an indication of its general usage,
as is the number of times it is translated "lord."

In 2Co 3:17, 18, kurios means the Lord Jesus Christ,
and it shows the co-equal relationship of the Son and the Holy Spirit
in the Triune Godhead.

And likewise, since theos means "god" hundreds and hundreds of times
it would be helpful if you provided three NT verses each where the NT writers'
use oftheos is actually translated "the Son" and "Holy Spirit"
(preferably not from the KJV, which I find to be less accurate),
even though that would not be an indication of its general usage,
as is the number of times it is translated "god."

Besides, your 2 Cor 3 example also has an OT counter part involving Yahweh.

And I'm still waiting for you to show the OT counterpart of 2Co 3;17, 18.

 

[Bowman]

Re: My gerbil puts forth more effort...

You might want to reconsider that notion.

"Implication" is inference, it is not specific meaning.
Yes, the "Lord" Jesus Christ is "God."
But the specific meaning of kurios is "lord," it is not "god."

You have not shown that the definition of kurios is "god,"
nor have you shown that kurios is ever translated "god" in the NT.

So, since kurios means Lord Jesus Christ hundreds of times, it would be helpful if
you supplied three NT verses where the NT writers' use of kurios
is actually translated "God" (preferably not from the KJV),
even though that would not be an indication of its general usage,
as is the number of times it is translated "lord."

In 2Co 3:17, 18, kurios means the Lord Jesus Christ,
and it shows the co-equal relationship of the Son and the Holy Spirit
in the Triune Godhead.

And likewise, since theos means "god" hundreds and hundreds of times
it would be helpful if you provided three NT verses each where the NT writers'
use oftheos is actually translated "the Son" and "Holy Spirit"
(preferably not from the KJV, which I find to be less accurate),
even though that would not be an indication of its general usage,
as is the number of times it is translated "god."

And I'm still waiting for you to show the OT counterpart of 2Co 3;17, 18.

Its simple semantics as I already proved with ANY lexicon.

I provided the definitions for your assertions....you did nothing on your own.... but you were forced to agree with my footwork.

Since you cant be bothered with the original languages, proving that your 'one-hit-wonder' somehow makes The Son, The Spirit...well, you are going to be hard pressed to make anyone side with you.

Your assertion.

Your proof.

Waiting.

 

[newbirth]

Re: For the 1,000th time...

No spirit form mentioned here...

θεον ουδεις εωρακεν πωποτε μονογενης θεος ο ων εις τον κολπον του πατρος εκεινος εξηγησατο

Theon oudeis heōraken pōpote monogenēs Theos ho ōn eis ton kolpon tou Patros ekeinos exēgēsato

No one has seen God at any time; but the unique One, Himself God, who is in the bosom of the Father, that One declares Him. (John 1.18)

so is God Spirit or not...???did Christ come out from God or not??? was Christ in the form of God or not

Philippians 2:5-10


[SUP]5 [/SUP]Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:

[SUP]6 [/SUP]Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
[SUP]7 [/SUP]But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

[SUP]8 [/SUP]And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

​

More meritless assertions on your part.

Thank you...

No mention that The Son is The Holy Spirit in scripture.

You are just making this up.

Again.

I'm not the one running from scriptural exegesis.

You are.

Therefore, your knowledge of scripture is weak, and you cannot defend your version of it.

Pathetic.

And I will petition the Father, and He will give you another Comforter, that He may remain with you to the age, the Spirit of Truth, whom the world cannot receive because it does not see Him nor know Him. But you know Him, for He abides with you and shall be in you. I will not leave you orphans; I am coming to you.

==========================================================
You heard that I said to you, I am going away, and I am coming again to you.


when you received the HS was it not Christ you received????

 

[newbirth]

Re: For the 1,000th time...

More meritless assertions on your part.

like I said before ...you keep saying no mention of this and that in scripture ...but here we are discussing trinity....and there is no mention of trinity in the scripture...how can I take you seriously...the basis of your whole argument is a meritless assertion...

 

[Elin]

Re: My gerbil puts forth more effort...

What would be 'helpful' is if you were to actually
back-up your own assertions
instead of having me prove you wrong....over.....and over....and over again for you.

You may want to reconsider that notion.

You have not shown that the definition of kurios is "god,"
nor have you shown that kurios is ever translated "god" in the NT.

Therefore, you have not shown that the kurios of 2Co 3:17, 18 means "God" the Father, rather than the "Lord" Jesus Christ.

In 2Co 3:17, 18, kurios means the Lord Jesus Christ,
and it shows the co-equal relationship of the Son and the Holy Spirit
in the Triune Godhead. . .

And I'm still waiting for you to show the OT counterpart of 2Co 3;17, 18.

Its simple semantics as I already proved with ANY lexicon.

I provided the definitions for your assertions....

You may want to review the record:

From κῦρος kuros (supremacy); supreme in authority, that is, (as noun) controller;
by implication Mr. (as a respectful title): - God, Lord, master, Sir.

"Implication" is inference, it is not specific meaning.
Yes, the "Lord" Jesus Christ is "God."
But the specific meaning of kurios is "lord," it is not "god."

You have not shown that the definition of kurios is "god,"
nor have you shown that kurios is ever translated "god" in the NT.

you did nothing on your own.... but you were forced to agree with my footwork.

Agreed. . .your "footwork" only showed that "god" could be an implication of kurios,
it did not show that "god" is the specific meaning (definition) of kurios.

So, since kurios means Lord Jesus Christ hundreds of times, it would be helpful if
you supplied three NT verses where the NT writers' use of kurios
is actually translated "God".

G2316
θεός
Theos
Thayer Definition:
1) a god or goddess, a general name of deities or divinities
2) the Godhead, trinity
2a) God the Father, the first person in the trinity
2b) Christ, the second person of the trinity
2c) Holy Spirit, the third person in the trinity

Implications again.

So likewise again, since theos means "god" hundreds and hundreds of times
it would be helpful if you provided three NT verses each where the NT writers'
use of theos is actually translated "the Son" and "Holy Spirit."

Since you cant be bothered with the original languages, proving that your 'one-hit-wonder'
somehow makes The Son, The Spirit...well, you are going to be hard pressed to make anyone side with you.

Your assertion.

You may want to review the record:

In 2Co 3:17, 18, kurios means the Lord Jesus Christ,
and it shows the co-equal relationship of the Son and the Holy Spirit
in the Triune Godhead.

You have not shown that the kurios of 2Co 3:17, 18 means "God" the Father, rather than
the "Lord" Jesus Christ.

And to which person of the Trinity a NT text is specifically referring is not just "semantics."

Your proof?

Not one NT verse where kurios is translated "god."

Waiting.

Speaking of "waiting""

Besides, your 2 Cor 3 example also has an OT counter part involving Yahweh.

And I'm still waiting for you to explain the OT counterpart of 2Co 3;17, 18.

 

[Bowman]

Re: For the 1,000th time...

And I will petition the Father, and He will give you another Comforter, that He may remain with you to the age, the Spirit of Truth, whom the world cannot receive because it does not see Him nor know Him. But you know Him, for He abides with you and shall be in you. I will not leave you orphans; I am coming to you.

==========================================================
You heard that I said to you, I am going away, and I am coming again to you.


when you received the HS was it not Christ you received????

Why do you refuse to acknowledge this simple verse which automatically corrects your myopic worldview...?

And when the Comforter comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of Truth who proceeds from the Father, that One will witness concerning Me.(John 15.26)


The Son does NOT send The Son!

Learn this:

The Holy Spirit IS 'The Comforter' .

The Holy Spirit IS 'The Spirit of Truth'.

The Son is NOT 'The Comforter'.

The Son is NOT 'The Spirit of Truth'.

 

[Bowman]

Re: For the 1,000th time...

like I said before ...you keep saying no mention of this and that in scripture ...but here we are discussing trinity....and there is no mention of trinity in the scripture...how can I take you seriously...the basis of your whole argument is a meritless assertion...

For something that supposedly does not exist....you sure do spend a lot of time and energy on it.

Just admit it...The Trinity eats your lunch and owns you.....completely.

 

[Bowman]

Re: My gerbil puts forth more effort...

You may want to review the record:

Why?

Did you back-edit your posts...and actually add some factual content?

Agreed. . .your "footwork" only showed that "god" could be an implication of

kurios,
it did not show that "god" is the specific meaning (definition) of kurios.

Lexicons show word definitions.

In fact, the very first lexical example is 'God'.

If you want it to 'imply' a certain Person of The Trinity....then the onus is upon you.

Deal with it...

So, since kurios means Lord Jesus Christ hundreds of times,

Show us.

it would be helpful if you supplied three NT verses where the NT writers' use of kurios
is actually translated "God".

You can freely interchange 'God' in any verse with 'Lord', per the lexicons.

Your repeated assertions just make you look more obtuse each time that you repeat them...lol...

So likewise again, since theos means "god" hundreds and hundreds of times
it would be helpful if you provided three NT verses each where the NT writers'
use of theos is actually translated "the Son" and "Holy Spirit."

Already did.

In 2Co 3:17, 18, kurios means the Lord Jesus Christ,
and it shows the co-equal relationship of the Son and the Holy Spirit
in the Triune Godhead.

So...

Now you have changed your assertion from each being the other...to they are now co-equal...?

What changed your mind?

You have not shown that the kurios of 2Co 3:17, 18 means "God" the Father, rather than
the "Lord" Jesus Christ.

Who said anything about God The Father...?

And to which person of the Trinity a NT text is specifically referring is not just "semantics."

Who said that it was?

 

[newbirth]

Re: For the 1,000th time...

For something that supposedly does not exist....you sure do spend a lot of time and energy on it.

Just admit it...The Trinity eats your lunch and owns you.....completely.

you just described your trinity as a bully...
and this is the reason I spend the time trying to educate you....in your vain imagination...

2 Corinthians 10:3-5King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP]For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh:
[SUP]4 [/SUP](For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

 

[Bowman]

Re: For the 1,000th time...

you just described your trinity as a bully...
and this is the reason I spend the time trying to educate you....in your vain imagination...

2 Corinthians 10:3-5King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP]For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh:
[SUP]4 [/SUP](For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

You keep denying something that you claim doesn't even exist.

It occupies your thoughts and controls you entirely.

Sounds to me like it exists...rotflol....!

 

[newbirth]

Re: For the 1,000th time...

Why do you refuse to acknowledge this simple verse which automatically corrects your myopic worldview...?

And when the Comforter comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of Truth who proceeds from the Father, that One will witness concerning Me.(John 15.26)


The Son does NOT send The Son!

Learn this:

The Holy Spirit IS 'The Comforter' .

The Holy Spirit IS 'The Spirit of Truth'.

The Son is NOT 'The Comforter'.

The Son is NOT 'The Spirit of Truth'.

Clear as day Jesus is referring to himself...

John 14:17
Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.




vs 18 clear as day Jesus is showing he is the comforter....
vs 20clear as day he only speaks of the Father and himself...no third person..
vs 21 clear as day it is Christ who manifests himself to us...
[h=1]John 14:18-21King James Version (KJV)[/h] [SUP]18 [/SUP]I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

 

[newbirth]

Re: For the 1,000th time...

You keep denying something that you claim doesn't even exist.

It occupies your thoughts and controls you entirely.

Sounds to me like it exists...rotflol....!

but you are the one held captive.....in your mind it exists....

just so you know there is only one who proceeded out from the Father....the only begotten Son....


And when the Comforter comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of Truth who proceeds from the Father, that One will witness concerning Me.(John 15.26)


John 16:27
For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God.

John 1:18
No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

John 6:42
And they said, Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? how is it then that he saith, I came down from heaven?
maybe now you will believe it was the HS who came down from heaven into Jesus when he was baptised ,that was speaking...saying... I came down from heaven

 

[Bowman]

What a tard.

Clear as day Jesus is referring to himself...

No.

John 14:17
Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

The Holy Spirit indwells people.

vs 18 clear as day Jesus is showing he is the comforter....

...'He will give you ANOTHER comforter'....the Greek word 'allon'.....literally means another, different one.

Can't you even read English?

vs 20clear as day he only speaks of the Father and himself...no third person..

Verse 20 is preceded by Jesus' Resurrection in verse 19...come on!

vs 21 clear as day it is Christ who manifests himself to us...
John 14:18-21King James Version (KJV)

[SUP]18 [/SUP]I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

'.....but the Comforter, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, ...

The Holy Spirit is sent in Jesus' NAME....NOT that The Holy Spirit is Jesus.


You are pretty dense.

 

[Bowman]

Re: For the 1,000th time...

but you are the one held captive.....in your mind it exists....

just so you know there is only one who proceeded out from the Father....the only begotten Son....


And when the Comforter comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of Truthwho proceeds from the Father, that One will witness concerning Me.(John 15.26)


John 16:27
For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God.

John 1:18
No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

John 6:42
And they said, Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? how is it then that he saith, I came down from heaven?
maybe now you will believe it was the HS who came down from heaven into Jesus when he was baptised ,that was speaking...saying... I came down from heaven

There are scriptures stating that The Holy Spirit proceeds from The Father...and from The Son.

Wake up....

 

[sigh33n]

Paul,

The Shema is Trinitarian to begin with.

Have you ever taken the time to study the Hebrew?

what is "Shema" brother?

 

[didymos]

'Shema' from the hebrew meaning: 'hear!' As in:

Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one. (Deut 6:4)

 

[gotime]

BOWMAN - IF YOU CAN READ EVERYTHING I PUT OUT THERE TO HELP YOU SEE WHY THE TRINITY IS NOT THE APOTLES' DOCTRINE AND STILL CHARGE ME WITH HERESY....YOU'VE MADE YOUR CHOICE...TAKEN YOUR STAND.....IN FACT....YOU MAY HAVE HARDENED YOUR HEART .......I SINCERELY PRAY NOT.......GOD BLESS YOU SIR......

You speak as if you have proved something, but you have done no such thing.

lol Guys stop wasting your time with this guy who comes in here makes his statement and then wont engage scripture.

First thing I have said on this thread, last also.