Denying Obama's Christianity - Please give me a verse on your authority?
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K
I'm not his judge, and even if I observe now without coming to a conclusion, he could change in ways that are not in my view to observe. So far I observe that he is against the bible- which is God's word. And he is the first American president to approve of homosexual marriage- which is evil. But what if I witnessed Paul killing Christians, and that was my only observation of him, could I conclude his eternal fate? I cannot conclude anyone's eternal fate because only God is thoroughly equiped to do so! For only He knows the thoughts and intentions of the heart.
If mankind could do this, there would be no innocent in prison who are proven innocent years later. I know right from wrong, and I can observe that others do wrong, but we all do wrong. But God only gives grace to those who obey Him. As for me, I'm going to read God's word and have confidence that because I try my best to obey Him that He will save my soul from eternal torment. When I show others with scripture that they are doing wrong, I do it to obey God, not to judge them.
If mankind could do this, there would be no innocent in prison who are proven innocent years later. I know right from wrong, and I can observe that others do wrong, but we all do wrong. But God only gives grace to those who obey Him. As for me, I'm going to read God's word and have confidence that because I try my best to obey Him that He will save my soul from eternal torment. When I show others with scripture that they are doing wrong, I do it to obey God, not to judge them.
To be a Muslim means to be a murderer. They danced in the streets in Dear born Michigan at 9/11.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-p1LEBAujE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-p1LEBAujE
B
The core conundrum seems to me to be, if President Obama isn't a Christian, yet, someone, in this case, you (any of you), using discernment to assess that, and then to speak plainly that President Obama isn't a Christian, that in fact boomarangs back on the person making the accessment. You are in the wrong to call President Obama on his faith. The man wearing the black hat gets a pass, the one calling him for it, gets his feet held to the fire. That can be a little annoying, right? LOL
Kenn Starr didn't have as good an Approval Rating than President Clinton back in the day, for example.
To say it more plainly, President Obama supposedly being disingenuous isn't the problem, you calling him on his dishonesty is the problem.
There is a live and let live aspect to politics. I live in Louisiana and there's a colorful history of politics. We do not always hold our leaders to the kind of standards we'd want them to be held to.
Kenn Starr didn't have as good an Approval Rating than President Clinton back in the day, for example.
To say it more plainly, President Obama supposedly being disingenuous isn't the problem, you calling him on his dishonesty is the problem.
There is a live and let live aspect to politics. I live in Louisiana and there's a colorful history of politics. We do not always hold our leaders to the kind of standards we'd want them to be held to.
P
Yet Kaycie when you show others with scripture what they are doing wrong you also have to be just as willing to accept when others show you when you are doing wrong in scripture that is the point of all this I would hope for if not then that in and of itself would be judgment from a real biblical perspective. I have seen remarks that could easily be considered condemning and that is not God way. I have seen words that are harsh and pride filled and that is not Gods way.
The word says to avoid the very appearance of evil. It says to let not our good be evil spoken of. Politics and religion just don't mix. If President Obama was not President many would give a rats tail as to if he was a professing Christian or not so why all the hoopla? You made several great points I hope I have made some too!
pastac
The word says to avoid the very appearance of evil. It says to let not our good be evil spoken of. Politics and religion just don't mix. If President Obama was not President many would give a rats tail as to if he was a professing Christian or not so why all the hoopla? You made several great points I hope I have made some too!
pastac
These verses:
1 Co 5:1-5
5 It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.
2 And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you.
3 For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed,
4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,
5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
KJV
demonstrate that it is possible to be saved and apostate (Walking contrary io the Holy Spirit's leading) at the same time.
It is NOT OUR JOB to determine the truth of Obama's claim to Christian faith. That is a task God has reserved for Himself.
We can empirically discern that Obama is an arrogant self-seeking liar with little interest in the well-being of our country; but we are not called to judge his faith.
1 Co 5:1-5
5 It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.
2 And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you.
3 For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed,
4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,
5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
KJV
demonstrate that it is possible to be saved and apostate (Walking contrary io the Holy Spirit's leading) at the same time.
It is NOT OUR JOB to determine the truth of Obama's claim to Christian faith. That is a task God has reserved for Himself.
We can empirically discern that Obama is an arrogant self-seeking liar with little interest in the well-being of our country; but we are not called to judge his faith.
K
If by "I will just consider the source" you mean me, I take offence to that Pastac. I have only used Obamas words,if you cant accept the truth that is not my fault.I have given you the truth.Again,not in my words but his. He is not a Christian,but I believe you are and I dont know how in good conscience you could support a man that is so obviously far from the truth.It boggles my mind frankly.
K
Quote "There is a live and let live aspect to politics. I live in Louisiana and there's a colorful history of politics. We do not always hold our leaders to the kind of standards we'd want them to be held to." And there is the problem!! We should hold BOTH sides to the highest standard.They are running our country.We want the best people to have those jobs,the most honest and trust worthy.
I am not sure how calling Obama on his dishonesty is a problem.I dont want to just you before I understand so I'll ask,if you dont mind could you explain a bit further what you mean there? thanks.
K
The thread is about Obamas Christianity not obeying the gov't. But I believe we are to obey the govt to a point.What if ISIS were to take over the country you live in.Do you then obey them? People who hid Jews in their homes during the Holocaust,many were Christians,were they wrong or right according to the Bible? We need to be careful about just blindly following the govt.
K
Quote "I'm not his judge" nor am I.But we are told to discern the spirit in the Bible and by their fruits you will know them.God is judge and in His Word Jesus said "no man comes to the Father but by me".Obama does not believe that.That is a very basic tenant of the Christian faith.I didnt say it was wrong,I didnt judge it to be wrong Jesus said it was wrong.That is what Im trying to get through to Pastac.
Quote "But what if I witnessed Paul killing Christians, and that was my only observation of him, could I conclude his eternal fate? " Paul did not understand what he was doing.He believed in God and thought he was doing right.When Jesus spoke to him it changed him forever.I didn say I knew Obama eternal fate.I said he is not a Christian now.He may become saved later and I hope he does.But he is not a Christian now.His witness shows that he is not.
Quote "but we all do wrong" Yes we all fall short of the glory of God.Thats why we need to repent and be saved.But to say we all do wrong is kind of a cop out.The Bible never teaches live and let live,that is secular humanism. We are to discern.Where false prophets tried to preach and cast out demons around the disciples did they say "hey,none of us are perfect either,que serra serra?" No,they rebuked them in the name of the Lord. John the Baptist lost his head for publicly telling the King he was sinning by sleeping with his brothers wife! My land, some people on this thread would be more critical of John for rebuking the King than the King for sinning! If John the Baptist corrected error in govt I believe we should too and call out wrong doing when we see it.Left or right!
Quote "When I show others with scripture that they are doing wrong, I do it to obey God, not to judge them." Again I did not judge Obama,I used his own words with which he judged himself! I did not judge him,God does that.
E
Jesus told us to be aware...He warned us over and over about deception.
One deception that is very popular, is that we should not judge anyone.
The Bible does not tell us to judge people...however, we absolutely to judge their works, their fruit and we should also be able to discern their spirit whether or not they speak from truth or lie.
15“Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves.16By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?17Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit.18A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit.19Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.20Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them. Matt 7
9Who can say, “I have kept my heart pure;
I am clean and without sin”?
10Differing weights and differing measures—
the Lord detests them both.
11Even small children are known by their actions,
so is their conduct really pure and upright? Prov 20
My brothers and sisters, can a fig tree bear olives, or a grapevine bear figs? Neither can a salt spring produce fresh water. James 3:12
One deception that is very popular, is that we should not judge anyone.
The Bible does not tell us to judge people...however, we absolutely to judge their works, their fruit and we should also be able to discern their spirit whether or not they speak from truth or lie.
15“Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves.16By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?17Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit.18A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit.19Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.20Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them. Matt 7
9Who can say, “I have kept my heart pure;
I am clean and without sin”?
10Differing weights and differing measures—
the Lord detests them both.
11Even small children are known by their actions,
so is their conduct really pure and upright? Prov 20
My brothers and sisters, can a fig tree bear olives, or a grapevine bear figs? Neither can a salt spring produce fresh water. James 3:12
Many have come on here saying that we are not to judge or that this thread is judging Obama's faith etc............
The question is not about Obama and if he is saved or not.....the question is about his claim of Christianity.....If one is to be a Christian they must of necessity have Christ-like characteristics in their life........
Jesus said this...BY THEIR FRUITS YOU SHALL KNOW THEM....JESUS also said....A TREE shall be KNOW by the fruit it bears....Jesus also said...BY THIS SHALL ALL MEN KNOW you are my disciples......
It is not unreasonable and or out of the realm of ACCEPTED practice to evaluate a man's claim to CHRIST by OBSERVING what he DOES or DOES NOT DO...after all the words of the MASTER above have one common denominator...the word KNOW!
The question is not about Obama and if he is saved or not.....the question is about his claim of Christianity.....If one is to be a Christian they must of necessity have Christ-like characteristics in their life........
Jesus said this...BY THEIR FRUITS YOU SHALL KNOW THEM....JESUS also said....A TREE shall be KNOW by the fruit it bears....Jesus also said...BY THIS SHALL ALL MEN KNOW you are my disciples......
It is not unreasonable and or out of the realm of ACCEPTED practice to evaluate a man's claim to CHRIST by OBSERVING what he DOES or DOES NOT DO...after all the words of the MASTER above have one common denominator...the word KNOW!