Departure From Oblivion!

[BarlyGurl]

>>>>They are a treasure – when one knows them. For instance just one quick example: when I found in the Word where we are instructed to let our garden rest every seventh year and tried it, we had a bumper crop of everything the next year! <<<<<<

If I had $100 for every time I have used that same example and been rejected, mocked or criticized for what I was trying to show others..... <shaking my head>.... But alas, I have Sister Shosh to converse with and compare learnings with NOW

 

[ember]

SHOSHANAH

Again we see the false accusation that we who believe every word that has ever come from the mouth of God, are “putting ourselves back UNDER the law.” I apologize if I sound ‘snippy’ but as much as I try and ask God to help me with having more patience, it is not at a level I am pleased with in myself yet.

what happens here, is that the constant rebuttal of trying to tell some that what they are saying someone else siad, is actually NOT what someone else said

when this happens multiple times, for myself, I do start to get edgy...I have decided there are some posts I will not respond to anymore even if they say I said something I did not say

let God sort it out I say...and really, a round of applause for more peace that way

 

[just-me]

There is no phrase in the Bible that says “back under the law” or “putting themselves back under the law.” The closest thing I can find concerning Paul's teaching is to the Galatians claiming that they “desire to be under the law” because they don't know what the law really says. Galatians 4:21
Taking verses 8 and 9 of the same chapter into account, the question is, what was Paul actually referring to? “Howbeit then, when ye knew not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods. But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?” Then Paul goes into the “allegory” concerning “Hagar” and “Mount Sinai.” This can be addressed later if anyone cares to do so, but isn't Mount Sinai where they built the “golden calf” the idol?

So this is what I found relating to being “under the law” in the past tense only.
“we were kept under the law” Galatians 3:23
“made under the law” Galatians 4:4
“were under the law” Galatians 4:5

This is what I find concerning those who are not saved.
“are under the law” Romans 3:19 1 Corinthians 9:20

And this is what I find who are saved.
"not under the law" Romans 6:14-15 Galatians 5:18

Therefore, if we are truly saved by the blood of Christ, it is impossible to go “back under the law” even if we esteem the law as a good and instructive (not destructive) benefit to our spiritual growth and welfare.

False doctrine claims it as possible to “go back under the law” because Satan desires the law to disappear because it has power over his tactics. Jesus resisted Satan during His 40 days of testing in the wilderness. He quotes Deuteronomy 3 times, and finally Satan left for the moment.
Deuteronomy 8:3
Deuteronomy 6:16
Deuteronomy 6:13-14

“Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.” (James 4:7)
“For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? but we have the mind of Christ.” (1 Corinthians 2:16)

Sad, but true IMO, those who desire any part of God's words to vanish away have little power given to them to resist the devil.

 

[Shoshanah]

>>>>They are a treasure – when one knows them. For instance just one quick example: when I found in the Word where we are instructed to let our garden rest every seventh year and tried it, we had a bumper crop of everything the next year! <<<<<<

If I had $100 for every time I have used that same example and been rejected, mocked or criticized for what I was trying to show others..... <shaking my head>.... But alas, I have Sister Shosh to converse with and compare learnings with NOW

WOW! We could have quite a shopping trip!

 

[BarlyGurl]

>>>>Satan desires the law to disappear because it has power over his tactics.<<<<

.........................YES!!!!!!!!

 

[ember]

I start to think that for some the 'LAW' is perceived as a saftey net...boundaries and rules which may at first seem easier to apply...but, also causes those who wish to apply them, to judge others around them...BECAUSE that is what the law does...it judges and finds we fall short...so they look around and seem to apply the condemnation they may feel because of where they have placed themself, and have a desire to pass that condemnation around to others

it's like misery loves company

hope that is not too philosophical an application...I don't find it so, but you never know

 

[just-me]

WOW! We could have quite a shopping trip!

Forget the shopping trip for me. That's woman thing. I want a mansion on at least 10 acres of land. $100 apiece could easily purchase that. LOL

 

[BarlyGurl]

WOW! We could have quite a shopping trip!

Yeah... buy grocery and canned goods to feed a lot of people at no cost to THEMSELVES if they would just have believe GOD for this one simple truth.... "let the earth rest"... and DO IT!!!

 

[just-me]

I start to think that for some the 'LAW' is perceived as a saftey net...boundaries and rules which may at first seem easier to apply...but, also causes those who wish to apply them, to judge others around them...BECAUSE that is what the law does...it judges and finds we fall short...so they look around and seem to apply the condemnation they may feel because of where they have placed themself, and have a desire to pass that condemnation around to others

it's like misery loves company

hope that is not too philosophical an application...I don't find it so, but you never know

That's easy to understand. You could very well be right on target! I agree that's what it is. AMEN! If the law is seen as nothing more than condemnation, that's exactly what will be voiced concerning their viewpoint to alleviate themselves from not being condemned. The law has to vanish for that reason alone.

 

[Shoshanah]

The Old Covenant is NOT obsolete.You are new to CC so I am going to refer you to a thread from over a year ago that explains the Covenants by type (not by name of the person such as Abrahamic Covenant) and how they are built one upon the previous and the responsibilities of being in covenant with God. It is: http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/85795-new-covenant-wine-all-goda-s-word.html

I was reading and it is a bit hard to keep track with the extra replies from the thread so I was wondering if you happen to have that as a file since it was an ongoing study at the time?

 

[posthuman]

This is what I find concerning those who are not saved.
“are under the law” Romans 3:19 1 Corinthians 9:20

And this is what I find who are saved.
"not under the law" Romans 6:14-15 Galatians 5:18

. . .

False doctrine claims it as possible to “go back under the law”

surprisingly close to "once saved, always saved" isn't it?

 

[just-me]

surprisingly close to "once saved, always saved" isn't it?

I like Paul Washer, but I'm not a Calvinist.
My signature, Hebrews 6:1-6 says a lot in that respect. False conversions are possible, ain't they? If salvation says this is the end rather than fulfillment, then it becomes a stalemate, as in stuck in the past, leaving one vulnerable to the future. No hope left. Romans 8:24

 

[just-us-2]

I was reading and it is a bit hard to keep track with the extra replies from the thread so I was wondering if you happen to have that as a file since it was an ongoing study at the time?

Sure. It is on our website at: Covenants or pm me and I can email it as a word document to you.

 

[posthuman]

My signature, Hebrews 6:1-6 says a lot in that respect. False conversions are possible, ain't they? If salvation says this is the end rather than fulfillment, then it becomes a stalemate, as in stuck in the past, leaving one vulnerable to the future.

truth be told, i don't really look at signatures -- i was just thinking of that very verse and about to look it up & post it when i saw your reply though!!

 

[KennethC]

There is no phrase in the Bible that says “back under the law” or “putting themselves back under the law.” The closest thing I can find concerning Paul's teaching is to the Galatians claiming that they “desire to be under the law” because they don't know what the law really says. Galatians 4:21
Taking verses 8 and 9 of the same chapter into account, the question is, what was Paul actually referring to? “Howbeit then, when ye knew not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods. But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?” Then Paul goes into the “allegory” concerning “Hagar” and “Mount Sinai.” This can be addressed later if anyone cares to do so, but isn't Mount Sinai where they built the “golden calf” the idol?

So this is what I found relating to being “under the law” in the past tense only.
“we were kept under the law” Galatians 3:23
“made under the law” Galatians 4:4
“were under the law” Galatians 4:5

This is what I find concerning those who are not saved.
“are under the law” Romans 3:19 1 Corinthians 9:20

And this is what I find who are saved.
"not under the law" Romans 6:14-15 Galatians 5:18

Therefore, if we are truly saved by the blood of Christ, it is impossible to go “back under the law” even if we esteem the law as a good and instructive (not destructive) benefit to our spiritual growth and welfare.

False doctrine claims it as possible to “go back under the law” because Satan desires the law to disappear because it has power over his tactics. Jesus resisted Satan during His 40 days of testing in the wilderness. He quotes Deuteronomy 3 times, and finally Satan left for the moment.
Deuteronomy 8:3
Deuteronomy 6:16
Deuteronomy 6:13-14

“Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.” (James 4:7)
“For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? but we have the mind of Christ.” (1 Corinthians 2:16)

Sad, but true IMO, those who desire any part of God's words to vanish away have little power given to them to resist the devil.

Apostle Paul when speaking to the Galatians did he not say they were walking in the gospel of Christ at one point before going back to the law ??? Yes he did !!!

Galatians 1:6
I marvel that ye are so soon removed from Him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:

Here Paul says they are being removed from the true gospel of Christ to follow after another showing it is possible for one who once walked in the true gospel can walk away from it. Later on Paul tells them they have been bewitched in not obeying the truth, and by turning away to seek their justification by the law Christ has become of no effect to them and they have fallen from grace. That had to be once under grace in order to fall from it.

 

[just-me]

Apostle Paul when speaking to the Galatians did he not say they were walking in the gospel of Christ at one point before going back to the law ??? Yes he did !!!

Galatians 1:6
I marvel that ye are so soon removed from Him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:

Here Paul says they are being removed from the true gospel of Christ to follow after another showing it is possible for one who once walked in the true gospel can walk away from it. Later on Paul tells them they have been bewitched in not obeying the truth, and by turning away to seek their justification by the law Christ has become of no effect to them and they have fallen from grace. That had to be once under grace in order to fall from it.

The law isn't mentioned in Galatians chapter 1. The first mention of the law is in chapter 2 verse 16 relating to the works of the law minus faith. The question is "who is troubling them?"

"Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ." verse 7

 

[gb9]

The law isn't mentioned in Galatians chapter 1. The first mention of the law is in chapter 2 verse 16 relating to the works of the law minus faith. he question is "who is troubling them?"

"Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ." verse 7

o.k. but he certainly mentioned not going back under the law the rest of the letter.

 

[just-me]

o.k. but he certainly mentioned not going back under the law the rest of the letter.

I don't think so, for Paul never said that in respect to the truth. As I said in post 183 "going back under the law" is not in scripture. They desired to worship gods that were no gods, and that was their desire putting them under the condemnation of the law of God. A person is either under its condemnation for no belief in Christ or not under condemnation by believing in Christ Jesus. That doesn't make the law bad, it makes the person bad.

 

[KennethC]

The law isn't mentioned in Galatians chapter 1. The first mention of the law is in chapter 2 verse 16 relating to the works of the law minus faith. The question is "who is troubling them?"

"Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ." verse 7

They go to together as you can not take chapter 1 apart from the rest of the epistle, just because the first chapter does not mention the law does not mean this is not what was being referred to.

As Apostle Paul goes into detail in the next chapters on how they were lead astray from following the truth of the gospel of Christ they were once in. He says it is because false teachers came in and drew them back to seek justification by law (doing as the law stated) and not by faith in Jesus.

Apostle Paul says they are bewitched into not obeying the truth, and that no man is justified by doing the works of the law which means trying to obey those written laws. Even Acts 15 the Apostles say that they could not keep the whole law, and that it was not to be placed on Gentile believers as it is a yoke of bondage.

Multiple times the bible refers to the OT Mosaic laws as a yoke of bondage, spirit of bondage, and such.

 

[atwhatcost]

I start to think that for some the 'LAW' is perceived as a saftey net...boundaries and rules which may at first seem easier to apply...but, also causes those who wish to apply them, to judge others around them...BECAUSE that is what the law does...it judges and finds we fall short...so they look around and seem to apply the condemnation they may feel because of where they have placed themself, and have a desire to pass that condemnation around to others

it's like misery loves company

hope that is not too philosophical an application...I don't find it so, but you never know

When God landed on the mountain in front of the Israelites he wanted to commune with them, to love and lead them. He wanted fellowship. He asked them for that, but the sight frightened them -- big fire-cloud, a sound that some heard as trumpets but others heard as thunder. And God's presence cover the whole top of a big mountain.

Their response was "whatever you say we will do." Thus the Law.

But really? Really really? You see, hear and experience all that knowing that's not the fullness of God and your mind isn't blown enough to realize we cannot do what he asks of us? He was asking us to fellowship with him. To live for him, with him, and in him fully and he was going to be right there, just like a dad asking his child to jump into the pool because he would catch his child. But, oh no! Not us. The pool looks wet, cold, and deadly even if Dad promises to protect us.

I think this is why we are constantly on guard to look at others. That way we can always say, "Yeah, but he didn't jump either." Kind of annoying, because it infuriates me how little faith I have to jump. I want to jump. I just need to see Dad's arms outstretched to me. His law is still that. "You can't do it, but I can bring you there if you just stare at me instead of that water."

I jump sometimes and it's wonderful. And then I feel the cold deadly water and immediately squirm back to the edge of the pool to get out quickly. Dumb! Really really dumb! I could still be carried in Daddy's arms!