Did God Ordain This?

p_rehbein · Dec 1, 2018

Something else we have not discussed Maxwell:

Ecclesiastes 3:1-8

To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:

A time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted;

A time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up;

A time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance;

A time to cast away stones, and a time to gather stones together; a time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing;

A time to get, and a time to lose; a time to keep, and a time to cast away;

A time to rend, and a time to sew; a time to keep silence, and a time to speak;

A time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace.

God did ordain these, right?

maxwel · Dec 1, 2018

p_rehbein said:

I think God has created, and placed us into, a world in which circumstance are fluid and transient.

In scripture God tells us to expect these changes so we're not surprised; he tells us ways to deal with the specifics so we can live in wisdom; and he also tells us ways to transcend the effects they have on us emotionally.

We also find God explaining how he uses these changing circumstances to accomplish many of his purposes: ordering nations, moving people around, bringing people to the gospel, maturing people in the faith, and even judging the wicked.

The above passage in Ecclesiates is a description of the kind of world God intentionally created and placed us into.
Before sin entered the world, many of these things would have occurred, and after sin entered the world, they all began to occur.

To accomplish his purposes through fluid and changing circumstances, God had to first ordain, necessarily, a world in which there could BE fluid and changing circumstance.

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PS · Dec 1, 2018

OneFaith said:

I am sorry to say the god of this world is Satan and he is eminently happy with the world. One of these days he will be destroyed.

1Jn 3:7-8 KJV
(7) Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
(8) He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

maxwel · Dec 1, 2018

PS said:

Although that's quite true, the book of Job seems to indicate that Satan has no ability to take actions which are outside the scope of God's sovereignty.

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PS · Dec 1, 2018

maxwel said:

True, it is not Satan who murders, it is his followers.

p_rehbein · Dec 1, 2018

I STRONGLY disagree...........The Almighty I Am is the God of this world, and ALL the Heavens. The devil may be spoken of as the prince of this world, and he is surely walking around to and fro to see who he can devour...........BUT he will NEVER be God of anything.

Saying he is the god of this world is to put him on a level par with God...........NO WAY! NEVER!

my thoughts

p_rehbein · Dec 1, 2018

2 Peter 3:8) But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. 9) The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

PS · Dec 1, 2018

p_rehbein said:

Yes. There is only one God and that is the Almighty as you say. The trouble is people follow another god, and as wickedness abounds, then it is the god of the wicked who is dominant in the world right now.

Jesus said, "Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. Joh_8:44

In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them. (2Co 4:4)

Lillywolf · Dec 1, 2018

PS said:

God is sovereign. His word tells us so. What then is this thread but other than the argument it is not so because man has will greater than God?

2 Corinthians 4:4 4The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel that displays the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.
“All authority comes from God, and those in position of authority have been placed there by God” (Romans 13:1)
Sovereignty:NOUN 1.supreme power or authority.
Genesis 50:20 “As for you, you meant evil against me, but God meant it for good, to bring it about that many people should be kept alive, as they are today.”
Proverbs 16:9 “The heart of man plans his way, but the Lord establishes his steps.”
"The eyes of men are all he fears; he forgets that the eyes of the Lord are ten thousand times brighter than the sun, observing every step men take and penetrating every secret. Before the universe was created, it was known to him, and so it is since its completion." (Ecclesiasticus Chapter 23:19-20).

"In other words, we cannot simply decide to believe one passage and ignore the other." (Gregory Boyd, 'God of the Possible,' p. 72).

Do you all realize the slaughter of three children, one unborn and dead in their mommy's womb, as well as that mom, is being exploited in this thread so as to push someone's agenda that seeks to repeal God's own words about predestination and predeterminism in his own scriptures?

Who here has felt compassion for the family used in this endeavor? Did God ordain this? Do you think he notices there's no compassion shown before you all take on the answer someone asked the question of over 4 dead bodies?

Your poll answers will remain anonymous? Not to the OP.

Miri · Dec 1, 2018

Regarding the original question, I feel quite sorry for God at times.
He gets blamed for everything, while Satan gets off running His hands
in glee.

maxwel · Dec 1, 2018

p_rehbein said:

I think you gentlemen are just having a semantic problem - a misunderstanding rather a than real disagreement.

A. It is true that a verse refers to Satan as "the God of this world."
B. But it's also true that this verse is not claiming Satan has the same authority as the true God, it's just using "God" as a hyperbolic term to show a "high level of authority"... the same way we'd say a college president is the "God" of the college, or that Chuck Norris is the "God" of karate.

To flesh the whole thing out, you could dig into 3 areas:
1. Look at the Greek word translated "world."
2. Look at how the phrase "the world" is used throughout scripture, and what it often refers to.
3. Look at the context surrounding 2Corinthians 4:4; this clearly shows the hyperbolic way the word "God" is being used.

..

Locutus · Dec 1, 2018

I think he ordained that rather this.

preacher4truth · Dec 1, 2018

pottersclay said:

Well, I gave her an "agree."

Not that I'm that fond of her attitude, but nonetheless she is correct.

You are clearly wrong in your assessment of Esau and Pharoah. God most certainly hardened his heart. The individual Esau God hated. There are more texts that show this to be in God's nature of justice.

But to show these attributes of God to today's timid Christian we all know it will be rejected.

There is no "whosoever" in John 3:16. It doesn't mean or say "anyone can believe." Tradition makes it say that, but it isn't accurate.

Maybe that makes me arrogant and ignorant too to some? OK.

CharliRenee · Dec 1, 2018

I believe He allowed it but to say He ordained it, takes choice out of this fallen world. It is His will for us not to kill one another... thou shalt not kill. After His atonement, He expounded on that, saying we shouldn't even think hateful thoughts to another because that is considered murder. This world is filled with corruption gone a muck. Is He sovereign...100%. Is He in control...absolutely. He will make what's wrong, right again. His returning and His wrath, that is definitely God ordained. The poor family and friends of those slaughtered, including those connected to the murderer. I pray the Lord reveals Himself in all the remaining lives involved.

pottersclay · Dec 1, 2018

preacher4truth said:

Clearly wrong? well I can agree to disagree saint. My conscience is clear. I don't see God as a bully.

God has chosen to love all of mankind in my understanding ....as job asked....why are you mindful of us? As we know there is no good thing in any of us.
So as we go and to bring the good news to those where we are sent I will continue to tell them Jesus loves them, and God loves them.
As you do the same with it's possible that Jesus loves you and it's possible God does too.

Ya see it doesn't fit.

preacher4truth · Dec 1, 2018

pottersclay said:

I think you actually do when presented with "the rest of the story" which is why you stated the above.

Totally unnecessary jab, but let's understand it's not at me that this jab was thrown.

Nothing in the biblical view represented makes God a bully unless one is into Romans 9:20ism.

Ahh, but we have to deal with the emotional card you just played!

You understand you really haven't refuted anything stated, that your belief is based on emotion, and grandstanding, not Biblical exegesis, correct?

Hevosmies · Dec 1, 2018

There are verses that say God preordains things

But are there ANY verses that say something happens randomly or by chance?

pottersclay · Dec 1, 2018

preacher4truth said:

We don't have to deal with anything....as I stated I agree to disagree I have learned this over the years. You as well as many others here should learn this vaulable discipline.

p_rehbein · Dec 2, 2018

Lillywolf said:

So very wrong..........ON ALL COUNTS there.......but, it is what I have come to expect from you........

We have shown compassion............and there is NO exploitation, other than in your mind I suppose.......AND I CAN NOT SEE WHO VOTED OR HOW! No one can...............I intentionally set up the Poll that way to not suppress ANYONE's vote........

As for pushing agendas, you and a few others here have been doing that for several weeks now, so don't get too high and mighty about that.............

Compassion is a major factor in free will.............I suspect most anyone would know that..........

PS · Dec 2, 2018

Lillywolf said:

God is sovereign. His word tells us so. What then is this thread but other than the argument it is not so because man has will greater than God?

2 Corinthians 4:4 4The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel that displays the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.
“All authority comes from God, and those in position of authority have been placed there by God” (Romans 13:1)
Sovereignty:NOUN 1.supreme power or authority.
Genesis 50:20 “As for you, you meant evil against me, but God meant it for good, to bring it about that many people should be kept alive, as they are today.”
Proverbs 16:9 “The heart of man plans his way, but the Lord establishes his steps.”
"The eyes of men are all he fears; he forgets that the eyes of the Lord are ten thousand times brighter than the sun, observing every step men take and penetrating every secret. Before the universe was created, it was known to him, and so it is since its completion." (Ecclesiasticus Chapter 23:19-20).

"In other words, we cannot simply decide to believe one passage and ignore the other." (Gregory Boyd, 'God of the Possible,' p. 72).

Do you all realize the slaughter of three children, one unborn and dead in their mommy's womb, as well as that mom, is being exploited in this thread so as to push someone's agenda that seeks to repeal God's own words about predestination and predeterminism in his own scriptures?

Who here has felt compassion for the family used in this endeavor? Did God ordain this? Do you think he notices there's no compassion shown before you all take on the answer someone asked the question of over 4 dead bodies?

Your poll answers will remain anonymous? Not to the OP.

There are two issues, firstly God does work through people His will to do. Judas is an example and as Genesis says "God meant it for good."

The other thing is that mankind has free will and will often do things out of malice because they are evil.

So, are you saying God condones murder despite the God given commandment "thou shall not kill (murder)" or are you saying something else?

Did God Ordain This?

Do you believe God ordained the murder of this woman and her two children?

1) YES

2) NO

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