Did Jesus abolish the law? Should we keep the commandments?

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Jan 25, 2015
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It helps to consider how when David wanted to build a house for God, God told him to hold that in abeyance for his son to do for David had bloodguilt against him. The death of Uriah was not cite but the fact that David had killed in battle. I understand God sent David into battle, so here too is a mystery.

It reminds me of the teaching, "So what if somone is disobedient by my will!" Our Father is mysterious , wondrous and always good. I believe this, and I always will.
The beautiful thing about the temple was that David did not sulk about God's commandment to not build the temple but he said to God he would get everything ready for his son to build the temple.

Same with Moses, he could never enter the promised land and if you think about it, it was like his purpose in life...

Truly our God works in mysterious ways....
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
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The beautiful thing about the temple was that David did not sulk about God's commandment to not build the temple but he said to God he would get everything ready for his son to build the temple.

Same with Moses, he could never enter the promised land and if you think about it, it was like his purpose in life...

Truly our God works in mysterious ways....

I was recently considering about Moses hitting the Rock and not obeying GOD.. they mistake was not Trusting GOD .. If GOD tells us to talk to the Rock then that is the way to receive water...


I know this is deeper and for our learning.. all things pointing to our Messiah.. but the fundamental is Trusting and obeying GOD.. if you are told that those that Love GOD Keep His Commandments by GOD Himself and His Son states the Greatest is to Love GOD.. then Believe...


anyhow im as simple as they come but i learned from GOD that if He states it then I will do it because I believed Him.. nothing of myself.. My Strength my Fortress.. my GOD.

If GOD tells you to move the mountain then Believe and do....
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
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Moses and the Rock is a mystery to me . I believe the crux of it is Moses was to only speak to the Rock and not bang on it.

It would be like banging on God's Back, were it possible, considering Him to be deaf.

I am told, the Rock is Jesus Christ by family members much wiser than I, so this I am belieing.
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
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Moses and the Rock is a mystery to me . I believe the crux of it is Moses was to only speak to the Rock and not bang on it.

It would be like banging on God's Back, were it possible, considering Him to be deaf.

I am told, the Rock is Jesus Christ by family members much wiser than I, so this I am belieing.

We have the True Rock and the Water of life.. we certainly won’t be hitting Him to receive water of life to enter in to the Kingdom of GOD...
 
Jan 25, 2015
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We have the True Rock and the Water of life.. we certainly won’t be hitting Him to receive water of life to enter in to the Kingdom of GOD...
I am afraid to say that sometimes we are hitting the Rock with the way we are living our lives... and then we still think we are followers of Christ.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
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Like Moses, we all have a weak moment, or weak moments...... We, Moses and us, will be seeing each other in the Kingdom, god willing.

I am afraid to say that sometimes we are hitting the Rock with the way we are living our lives... and then we still think we are followers of Christ.
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
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I am afraid to say that sometimes we are hitting the Rock with the way we are living our lives... and then we still think we are followers of Christ.
That is us Growing in Grace and knowledge of Christ.. I say it is GOD chastising us as we Grow.. and yes we may be hitting the Rock by not obeying inadvertently.. but no servant would beat their Master literally or Spiritually if possible..

we Worship GOD In Spirit and Truth and if we are being dealt with as Son’s and being Chastised by GOD then Blessed are we.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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What did Moses do that warranted such a severe penalty from the Lord?

First, Moses disobeyed a direct command from God. God had commanded Moses to speak to the rock. Instead, Moses struck the rock with his staff.

Second, Moses took the credit for bringing forth the water. Notice how in verse 10 Moses says, "Must we [referring to Moses and Aaron] bring you water out of this rock?" Moses took credit for the miracle himself, instead of attributing it to God.

Third, Moses committed this sin in front of all the Israelites. Such a public example of direct disobedience could not go unpunished.

Fourth, it seems that God had intended to present a type of Christ in this circumstance. The water-giving rock is used as a symbol of Christ in
1 Corinthians 10:4. The rock was struck once in Exodus 17:6, just like Christ was crucified once (Hebrews 7:27).

Moses’ speaking to the rock in
Numbers 20 was to be a picture of prayer; instead, Moses angrily struck the rock, in effect, crucifying Christ again. His punishment for disobedience, pride, and the misrepresentation of Christ’s sacrifice was that he was barred from entering the Promised Land (Numbers 20:12).
https://www.gotquestions.org/Moses-promised-land.html
 

MarcR

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2015
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Hello MarC, Please tell me how I have twisted EG's words? Here let me make is easy by posting the conversation....



EG replied......................................



This was followed with.....................



EG replied.....................................



At which was said..............



Please tell me how I twisted what he said? He said he agrees that you cannot separate God's 10 commandments from love and he was never arguing against God's commandments which includes the 4th commandment. His Words not mine. Did you need to apologize or did I miss something from the conversation?
EG, throughout the thread, has taken the opposite position. There is nothing in what EG posted to suggest that he has changed his position. If you limit the conversation to the exchange you are using you can support that inference; but it is a cheap shot. If you take the thread as the conversation, there is no way to support your conclusion.
 
Jun 5, 2017
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EG, throughout the thread, has taken the opposite position. There is nothing in what EG posted to suggest that he has changed his position. If you limit the conversation to the exchange you are using you can support that inference; but it is a cheap shot. If you take the thread as the conversation, there is no way to support your conclusion.
Hello MarcR

Sorry I have not followed the whole thread. Go read post # 188 again. I have only shared scripture at which EG agreed to so what is your problem?
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
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When did God tell mankind His gift of the Seventh Day had been changed to the first day?

Also, what are people observing when they consider the first day the Sabbath of the Lord God?

I honor God by believing Him on this issue and not man.
I know I am savd by grace........
Weh do some morons tell me I am under the law simply because I prefer to believe God before I believe man?
Alo, why associate kosher with people who believe the Father on His designation of the Seventh Day as a gift to man?

I am not under the law. I know of no one who honors teh Father by heeding Him on the day of rest who is under the law, although we do all do our best to obey God......read at least, Ephesians.
I believe there is a huge misunderstanding of what "under the Law" means.

The wages of sin is death. The law says if I transgress the Commandments of God, I die. But we have all died. We are all "under the law". Which means dead. Under the curse of the law means dead. The "law of sin" contained in ordinances, is the part of the law that says "The soul that sin's shall die".

It is falsely taught for centuries that being "Under the Law" means being under the instructions of God. But this is not true.

Rom. 8:14 For sin (which caused our death)shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, (Dead) but under grace.(alive having our past transgressions removed)

15 What then? shall we sin,(transgress God's Commandments) because we are not under the law, (dead) but under grace? (alive) God forbid.

16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

You might ask yourself, obedience to what?


Paul concludes in Rom. 7,

Rom. 7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

No curse here as many preach. No burden, no Yoke, no talk about how God created Laws no man could follow and they Killed thousands who didn't keep it.

No God's Laws are "Good".

23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin (Death)which is in my members.

Paul finds his flesh, pride, selfishness, covetous, wickedness deceitful. This flesh hates God and God's instruction.

Rom. 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

But he also said this SIN that is in all mankind shall not have dominion over him. Because Jesus has promised to remove it (Grace) and Paul has Faith that this is true.

24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

Not God's Commandments, but death. That is the curse of the Law. That is what it means to be "Under the Law".

25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. (Whose Grace made me alive again) So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

With the Grace of Christ,(not the works of Paul) AND with the law of God (not the works of Paul) Paul will overcome his flesh which has been condemned to death by the law of sin.(The soul that sins shall die)

This "law of sin" which states we die if we live in disobedience to God, that is contained in ordinances, is the only law that is against us. The law can't give life, only Jesus can do that. The Law takes life.

Col. 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;


It is a false teaching that Jesus nailed what they call the entire "Mosiac Law" to the cross. He blotted out the part of the law contained in ordinances that was against us. And the only part of God's Commandments that are against us is the part that says if we sin we die.

As Paul clearly explains:

Rom. 7:5 For when we were in the flesh, (when we didn't rule over our flesh) the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death. (The Law says we sin, we die)

6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit,(Grace gave us another chance to begin anew) and not in the oldness of the letter.(You sin, you die)

Anyway, I hope you don't mind me hijacking your post. Please let me know if you find something missing in this study.

Very good post JJ :)
 
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Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
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What did Moses do that warranted such a severe penalty from the Lord?

First, Moses disobeyed a direct command from God. God had commanded Moses to speak to the rock. Instead, Moses struck the rock with his staff.

Second, Moses took the credit for bringing forth the water. Notice how in verse 10 Moses says, "Must we [referring to Moses and Aaron] bring you water out of this rock?" Moses took credit for the miracle himself, instead of attributing it to God.

Third, Moses committed this sin in front of all the Israelites. Such a public example of direct disobedience could not go unpunished.

Fourth, it seems that God had intended to present a type of Christ in this circumstance. The water-giving rock is used as a symbol of Christ in
1 Corinthians 10:4. The rock was struck once in Exodus 17:6, just like Christ was crucified once (Hebrews 7:27).

Moses’ speaking to the rock in
Numbers 20 was to be a picture of prayer; instead, Moses angrily struck the rock, in effect, crucifying Christ again. His punishment for disobedience, pride, and the misrepresentation of Christ’s sacrifice was that he was barred from entering the Promised Land (Numbers 20:12).
https://www.gotquestions.org/Moses-promised-land.html
Yes, Paul says the same thing in Romans 7.

12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
God's commandment to Moses was righteous as is all His Instructions.

Was then that which is good made death unto me?

So did God created the commandment to destroy Moses?

God forbid.

But sin, (disobedience to God) that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.

God had this story written for us too how really really evil and wicked it is to disobey God in His sight. That transgression of God's Commandments is very very evil and very wicked. So bad that if we dishonor Him with disrespect and disobedience we will die.

Paul confirms this understanding in:

1 Cor. 1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;
2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat;
4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.





5 But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness.





6 Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.


7 Neither be ye idolaters, as were some of them; as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play. (Ex. 32)





8 Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand.
9 Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents.
10 Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer.
11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Great nice to meet another Sabbath keeper seems we are all in agreement then :) God bless you brother EG

I still do not think you understand, nor that we agree.. But out could be a start of understanding. One can pray.
 
Nov 12, 2015
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What did Moses do that warranted such a severe penalty from the Lord?

First, Moses disobeyed a direct command from God. God had commanded Moses to speak to the rock. Instead, Moses struck the rock with his staff.

Second, Moses took the credit for bringing forth the water. Notice how in verse 10 Moses says, "Must we [referring to Moses and Aaron] bring you water out of this rock?" Moses took credit for the miracle himself, instead of attributing it to God.

Third, Moses committed this sin in front of all the Israelites. Such a public example of direct disobedience could not go unpunished.

Fourth, it seems that God had intended to present a type of Christ in this circumstance. The water-giving rock is used as a symbol of Christ in
1 Corinthians 10:4. The rock was struck once in Exodus 17:6, just like Christ was crucified once (Hebrews 7:27).

Moses’ speaking to the rock in
Numbers 20 was to be a picture of prayer; instead, Moses angrily struck the rock, in effect, crucifying Christ again. His punishment for disobedience, pride, and the misrepresentation of Christ’s sacrifice was that he was barred from entering the Promised Land (Numbers 20:12).
https://www.gotquestions.org/Moses-promised-land.html
The second reason you gave was the one I saw. It read to me as if he was...haughty and too big for his britches in that moment. I never saw these other things you mentioned. Thanks.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Only YHWH saves and righteous works are not the enemy, satan is.

The question is what are righteous works, and how do we perform them

This is currently the disconnect in CC, Eeryone wants to say,. Yes we must do righteous words (I hate the word must, it is legalistic, but for the purpose here I will use it)

But no one seems to want to discuss how we do them, or what they really look like.

Thats sad.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
You must guard your tongue here or some idiot will not realize you know the righteous works are from God for all of us. Yes you will be accused of claiming your own righteousness.

They will, and when they do remember this post, for you are speaking truth.God bless you.
Lovely talk.. I am beginning to think you have some prety deep issues.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
You know what? I also struggled with this but we had a series about David and the difference between David and the rest of the people was the way he repented. Brother could this guy repent. I think that is why God loved him, because of his pure heart :) .

The other thing about David was that he loved God's word and law with all his heart... maybe that is why God loved him back :) (I am just saying :p)

I think the thing which separates david from most is his great faith. As he said in his open confession in Psalmsm Sacrifice and burnt offering you did not desire. He understood truthfully that the law was Not his way to eternal life, But his faith was. He repented because of his great trust in God, His trust was shown from an early age, We had his unwavering trust as a shepherd, then the giant, The the trust and love of the king, even though the king wanted his life. On and on and on he showed why he is worthy of the great faith hall of faim.

And what he showed is a great love for God in serving others. And wanting Gods will to be completed no matter what the cost was to him. And he showed how even a righteous servant of God can fall into deep sin, and still yet, God never left him nor did God forsake him, Just like God promised.

we should all take a look at davids life as an example of what true faith looks like.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Yes he was. If we all could repent like David, the world would be a different place :)

I agree, but would add the word Faith, David di dnot just repent, he had a great deep trust in the living God of Israel.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Moses and the Rock is a mystery to me . I believe the crux of it is Moses was to only speak to the Rock and not bang on it.

It would be like banging on God's Back, were it possible, considering Him to be deaf.

I am told, the Rock is Jesus Christ by family members much wiser than I, so this I am belieing.
it was a vision of Christ WHo is called the great rock

Christ was first to be stricken (moses strikes the rock first)

then we can ask, and promised that we would recieve rivers of living water which would endure to eternal life.

God had a purpose to say speak the second time, he was sharing a vision so to speak. Moses disobeyed.

its really no different than God telling the world. Call out to me, and you will be saved, because of the rock which was stricken for us. Yet people do not do this, they want to ADD or change gods word. They will suffer the same fate of moses, And not enter the promised land (although moses will be in heaven, it is just a picture)
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Like Moses, we all have a weak moment, or weak moments...... We, Moses and us, will be seeing each other in the Kingdom, god willing.
God said you can KNOW you have eternal life. Why do you not KNOW? Where is your faith my friend?