Did Jesus Die on The Cross for The Just/Elect/Saved Whose Names Are Written in The Book of Life OR

[FollowerofShiloh]

But what you still don't understand is that Mercy does not require God to also give his us Grace! When a judge, for example, is merciful to a convicted criminal and commutes his sentence to something much lighter, should the criminal also expect the judge to have a whole hosts of perks waiting for him in the outside world after he's released from prison? Should the criminal, upon his release, expect for the judge to offer him a suite of rooms in his mansion, access to all the servants in the house, a choice of cars from the garage, total access to all the amenities on the grounds, the power boat moored to the dock on the lake, etc.? Grace goes well beyond Mercy because the former actually bestows gifts (Rom 12:6). Grace gives us gifts that we don't deserve! Moreover, Grace can do something that Mercy cannot: Grace can actually empower us to live godly lives! Our call unto salvation does not come by Mercy, but by Grace! We are not saved by Mercy, but by Grace, etc.

What Peter says makes perfectly good sense, since Mercy is the grounds for Grace. Logically, forgiveness precedes our adoption into the royal family, just as adoption precedes our inheritance, etc. I would recommend that you spend a few weeks meditating on the Parable of the Prodigal. The foolish son rightfully did not expect the grand reception he received after he returned him. He sought his father's forgiveness and hoped that the father would take him back as a servant in his household. But he received far more than he expected, didn't he? He received GRACE! He received so much that angered his older brother.

Don't forget: It wasn't Mercy that was given to the elect in eternity; rather it was Grace!

2 Tim 1:9
9 who has saved us and called us to a holy life — not because of anything we have done but because of his own purpose and grace. This grace was given us in Christ Jesus before the beginning of time,
NIV

It's one great thing to be forgiven by the Mercy of the Righteous Judge; and yet quite another to receive an abundance of precious gifts from him, as well, by his Grace. It's one thing to be forgiven, and something else entirely to receive the gifts of Grace that actually transform us from the inside out, changing our lives completely making us fit to inhabit the eternal kingdom.

I think you don't understand that the reason Jesus died to begin with, before you were ever given Grace, God's Mercy took place and sent Jesus to the Cross. It took an Act of God's Mercy before you were granted God's Grace. So Mercy is most vital.

 

[Rufus]

I think you don't understand that the reason Jesus died to begin with, before you were ever given Grace, God's Mercy took place and sent Jesus to the Cross. It took an Act of God's Mercy before you were granted God's Grace. So Mercy is most vital.

You didn't even bother to read 2Tim 1:9, did you? I quoted that passage in my last post because I anticipated exactly the kind of lame response you just gave. This passage says that GRACE was given to the elect BEFORE the beginning of time! As in way BEFORE Christ went to the Cross.

And I already agreed that Grace [in space and time] proceeds from God's Mercy as it did with Prodigal Son; but at the same time Mercy does not require that God subsequently give us his Grace.

I would exhort you to stay tuned for another lesson on Mercy, but I strongly suspect you will freely choose to close your ears and shut your eyes to any truth that doesn't square with any premise, hypothesis or presupposition of yours.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

You didn't even bother to read 2Tim 1:9, did you? I quoted that passage in my last post because I anticipated exactly the kind of lame response you just gave. This passage says that GRACE was given to the elect BEFORE the beginning of time! As in way BEFORE Christ went to the Cross.

And I already agreed that Grace [in space and time] proceeds from God's Mercy as it did with Prodigal Son; but at the same time Mercy does not require that God subsequently give us his Grace.

I would exhort you to stay tuned for another lesson on Mercy, but I strongly suspect you will freely choose to close your ears and shut your eyes to any truth that doesn't square with any premise, hypothesis or presupposition of yours.

I am not under the Law.
But it is interesting to see Paul talking about as if the Law is still in effect.

 

[Rufus]

A Deeper Dive Into What Mercy Means​

Let's start with a Davidic psalm, then appeal to a couple of supporting passages and then end this discussion with an example from the life of King David.

Ps 103:8-10
8 The LORD is compassionate and gracious,
slow to anger, abounding in love.
9 He will not always accuse,
nor will he harbor his anger forever;
10 he does not treat us as our sins deserve
or repay us according to our iniquities.
NIV

Just as compassion and mercy, in scripture, are often paired together (Ex 33:19; Deut 13:17, etc.), so too are compassion and grace (2Ki 13:23l 2Chron 30:9, etc.). And what drives both pairs is God's love. Either his love for his chosen people, or love he had for the Patriarchs, or his great love for the Messiah to come or even his love for justice or for what is good generally. The pagan Persian king Cyrus comes immediately to mind as a prime example of his love for Israel since God raised up Cyrus to be a kind, compassionate, sympathetic and merciful ruler over his people; for it was by his decree that the Jews returned to their Land. And so for the sake of God's chosen ones, He was also merciful to Cyrus himself not only by withholding from this pagan king what he rightly deserved (since he never acknowledged the God of Heaven) but also by bestowing temporal blessings upon him as well.

The emphasis in the passage above is what God did NOT do! The emphasis is more on his "compassion" rather than his grace. The emphasis is on the negatives that are highlighted above. Verse 10 gets to the heart of what some us have been saying for a long time: Mercy (or compassion) do NOT treat us as our sins deserve. Mercy or compassion do NOT repay us as our sins deserve. (David was deliberately redundant in this passage to make this point loud and clear!) The analogy of the earthly judge in my 5100 harmonizes nicely with verse 10! The judge after granting mercy to the criminal, did not have to go beyond that. But if he had, that Mercy would have morphed into Grace.

But we don't have to rely on just this one passage alone. Consider these texts, please:

Ezra 9:13
13 "What has happened to us is a result of our evil deeds and our great guilt, and yet, our God, you have punished us less than our sins have deserved and have given us a remnant like this.
NIV

The example of how God dealt with Solomon's sin below teaches us the truth that is stated above:

1 Kings 11:34-36
34 " 'But I will NOT take the whole kingdom out of Solomon's hand; I have made him ruler all the days of his life for the sake of David my servant, whom I chose and who observed my commands and statutes. 35 I will take the kingdom from his son's hands and give you ten tribes. 36 I will give one tribe to his son so that David my servant may always have a lamp before me in Jerusalem, the city where I chose to put my Name.
NIV

In other words, God did not treat Solomon as his sins deserved. God was merciful to him.

And then this:

Job 42:7-9
7 After the LORD had said these things to Job, he said to Eliphaz the Temanite, "I am angry with you and your two friends, because you have not spoken of me what is right, as my servant Job has. 8 So now take seven bulls and seven rams and go to my servant Job and sacrifice a burnt offering for yourselves. My servant Job will pray for you, and I will accept his prayer and NOT deal with you according to your folly. You have not spoken of me what is right, as my servant Job has." 9 So Eliphaz the Temanite, Bildad the Shuhite and Zophar the Naamathite did what the LORD told them; and the LORD accepted Job's prayer.
NIV

Again, God did NOT deal with Job's three friends according to their folly. He was merciful to them, for he accepted their sacrifices through Job and his prayer and forgave them, but he did nothing beyond that.

One more example -- this one from the life of David. Most of us, I presume, are familiar with David's great sin of the Census-taking. As you recall, Joab was dead set against David's plan and told him so. But the king insisted. After the census was taken, David became very convicted of his sin (2Sam 24:10). He cried out to God to take away his guilt. In other words, to forgive him. To be merciful to him by removing his sin.

As the story unfolds, the prophet Gad visited David and God through his prophet offered David three punishment options: 3 years of famine in the land, 3 months of fleeing from Israel's enemies or 3 days of plague (24:12). David was to choose one of the 3 doors. This is how David responded:

2 Sam 24:14
14 David said to Gad, "I am in deep distress. Let us fall into the hands of the LORD, for his mercy is great; but do not let me fall into the hands of men."
NIV

David, obviously, believed that God would be merciful to him and not deal with Israel as David's folly deserved. So, he chose the punishment that would come straight from God: a great plague. And David chose wisely, as it turned out. After the angel of the Lord smited 70,000 Israelites and was about ready to bring the hammer down on Jerusalem, God mercifully relented and commanded his angel to "withdraw your hand" (24:16).

David was so convicted of his own sin that he offered his own life and the life of his family in exchange for the Israelites (24:17). David had great faith in God's mercy.

John the Baptist famously said:

John 1:29
29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God , which taketh away the sin of the world.
KJV

In other words, Behold the Lamb who forgives the sin of the world -- who takes away the world's guilt. But would forgiveness ALONE
suffice for the sons men? Or would a salvation that entails infinitely more than forgiveness, as great as that is, be required? Could forgiveness alone justify us by imputing Christ's righteousness to our souls? Could forgiveness alone deliver us from sin's relentless power and mastery over us? Could forgiveness alone promise to deliver us from the future presence of all sin throughout all eternity? The answers to all these questios are a resounding NO!!! It took more than Mercy and Compassion. It also takes the POWER of God's Effectual Grace because Mercy alone could never make us God's New Creation. It takes nothing less than Supernatural Power to pull that off! It takes a resurrection from the dead. It takes a new birth from above. It takes a transformed mind. It takes a circumcised heart. It takes a New Creation.

Here is a Maxim we can all take to the bank: God's Grace Begins Where His Mercy Ends; but the latter never necessitates the former.

 

[Rufus]

I am not under the Law.
But it is interesting to see Paul talking about as if the Law is still in effect.

Another useless, irrelevant non sequitur. So, I guess your were not on God's radar in eternity, right?

 

[Rufus]

I am not under the Law.
But it is interesting to see Paul talking about as if the Law is still in effect.

I don't see any law mentioned in 2Tim 1. Are you seeing things again?

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

I don't see any law mentioned in 2Tim 1. Are you seeing things again?

9 who saved us and called us to a holy calling, not because of our works but because of his own purpose and grace, which he gave us in Christ Jesus before the ages began

^
This is the "Result" of the Mercy of God that sent Jesus to the Cross.

Mercy before Grace is always the order throughout scripture.

 

[Rufus]

9 who saved us and called us to a holy calling, not because of our works but because of his own purpose and grace, which he gave us in Christ Jesus before the ages began

^
This is the "Result" of the Mercy of God that sent Jesus to the Cross.

Mercy before Grace is always the order throughout scripture.

I actually agree with that in principle, as stated previously. However, one could reasonably look at Grace and Mercy in two different ways and still reach the conclusion you and I have. One could say, as I intimated in my 5104, that Grace, the superlative expression of God's love, flows from Mercy. Grace, therefore, is superior to Mercy because it bestows a positive, ongoing benefit on its objects. On the other hand, one could reasonably posit that Mercy is subsumed under Grace and is its most basic, rudimentary expression, since it withholds from its objects what they justly deserve. This would be the Paradoxical viewpoint. Since Grace always gives something to its objects, one could say that Mercy, too, is given to its objects; and, therefore, flows from Grace instead of the other way around. But, again this Mercy would be the most basic expression of God's Grace, since the biblical emphasis on Mercy is what it doesn't give to sinners, i.e. JUSTICE or at least the full measure of it. And therein is the Paradox: Grace gives Mercy to undeserving sinners by not giving what them what they deserve. Therefore, there would be a sense in which sinners do benefit [positively] by God's Mercy in that they escape the brunt of his righteous anger.

But because Grace goes far beyond Mercy, its objects actually reap positive, ongoing benefits that go far beyond forgiveness or the mitigation of God's justice. Therefore, I totally disagree with you that the Cross of Christ is a result of God's mercy! God certainly wasn't merciful to his Son on the Cross. Nor is the Cross an expression of God's mercy to his elect. Biblically speaking, the Cross is the quintessential expression of both God's love toward the elect (Rom 5:8) and a demonstration of his inevitable coming day of justice for all sinners (Rom 3:24-26). (Many translations substitute [God's] "righteousness" for justice; but justice and righteousness are two different sides of the same coin. And I prefer the rendering "justice" in the NIV because it fits the context better.) Anyhow...if God could not save the world by sparing his own Son from his righteous indignation, then how much more will God pour out his wrath upon all unrepentant sinners?

John 3:16, therefore, is the ultimate expression to the world of God's Grace; for God, by that Grace, gave up his Son to all those in the world who would believe on him. He offered up his Son. He sacrificed his Son for all those who would believe on him. The Cross Work of Christ provides many positive, ongoing benefits to all believers-- not only in this life, but in the next one to come. In short, Jesus Christ is God's gift to the World that keeps on giving and giving and giving with no end ever in sight! And this fact speaks most poignantly and pointed to what Grace is all about. It's all about God's heart and how he was willing to GIVE EVERYTHING to his people and withhold no good thing from them to secure their salvation. The Cross goes far, far beyond "mere" forgiveness or the restraining of God's justice.

Perhaps Peter sums up best what I have just tried to express in the last paragraph:

2 Peter 1:3-4
3 His divine power has given us everything we need for life and godliness through our knowledge of him who called us by his own glory and goodness. 4 Through these he has given us his very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature and escape the corruption in the world caused by evil desires.
NIV

And if we substitute "grace" for power, it would not change the sense of the passage in the least. Since God did not withhold his only Begotten Son from his people...since He has already made the Supreme Sacrifice... then why would he possibly hold back from us anything less!?

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

I actually agree with that in principle, as stated previously. However, one could reasonably look at Grace and Mercy in two different ways and still reach the conclusion you and I have. One could say, as I intimated in my 5104, that Grace, the superlative expression of God's love, flows from Mercy. Grace, therefore, is superior to Mercy because it bestows a positive, ongoing benefit on its objects. On the other hand, one could reasonably posit that Mercy is subsumed under Grace and is its most basic, rudimentary expression, since it withholds from its objects what they justly deserve. This would be the Paradoxical viewpoint. Since Grace always gives something to its objects, one could say that Mercy, too, is given to its objects; and, therefore, flows from Grace instead of the other way around. But, again this Mercy would be the most basic expression of God's Grace, since the biblical emphasis on Mercy is what it doesn't give to sinners, i.e. JUSTICE or at least the full measure of it. And therein is the Paradox: Grace gives Mercy to undeserving sinners by not giving what them what they deserve. Therefore, there would be a sense in which sinners do benefit [positively] by God's Mercy in that they escape the brunt of his righteous anger.

But because Grace goes far beyond Mercy, its objects actually reap positive, ongoing benefits that go far beyond forgiveness or the mitigation of God's justice. Therefore, I totally disagree with you that the Cross of Christ is a result of God's mercy! God certainly wasn't merciful to his Son on the Cross. Nor is the Cross an expression of God's mercy to his elect. Biblically speaking, the Cross is the quintessential expression of both God's love toward the elect (Rom 5:8) and a demonstration of his inevitable coming day of justice for all sinners (Rom 3:24-26). (Many translations substitute [God's] "righteousness" for justice; but justice and righteousness are two different sides of the same coin. And I prefer the rendering "justice" in the NIV because it fits the context better.) Anyhow...if God could not save the world by sparing his own Son from his righteous indignation, then how much more will God pour out his wrath upon all unrepentant sinners?

John 3:16, therefore, is the ultimate expression to the world of God's Grace; for God, by that Grace, gave up his Son to all those in the world who would believe on him. He offered up his Son. He sacrificed his Son for all those who would believe on him. The Cross Work of Christ provides many positive, ongoing benefits to all believers-- not only in this life, but in the next one to come. In short, Jesus Christ is God's gift to the World that keeps on giving and giving and giving with no end ever in sight! And this fact speaks most poignantly and pointed to what Grace is all about. It's all about God's heart and how he was willing to GIVE EVERYTHING to his people and withhold no good thing from them to secure their salvation. The Cross goes far, far beyond "mere" forgiveness or the restraining of God's justice.

Perhaps Peter sums up best what I have just tried to express in the last paragraph:

2 Peter 1:3-4
3 His divine power has given us everything we need for life and godliness through our knowledge of him who called us by his own glory and goodness. 4 Through these he has given us his very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature and escape the corruption in the world caused by evil desires.
NIV

And if we substitute "grace" for power, it would not change the sense of the passage in the least. Since God did not withhold his only Begotten Son from his people...since He has already made the Supreme Sacrifice... then why would he possibly hold back from us anything less!?

The reason I pray to God to have Mercy upon me is because His Act of Mercy, in what He does to impact and change my situation, results into the overflow of Grace in my life. The ancient Hebrew/Jews understood this and why we see their usage of Mercy the way we do. They gave us a roadmap to see God work in our lives beyond our salvation and needs met.

 

[Rufus]

The reason I pray to God to have Mercy upon me is because His Act of Mercy, in what He does to impact and change my situation, results into the overflow of Grace in my life. The ancient Hebrew/Jews understood this and why we see their usage of Mercy the way we do. They gave us a roadmap to see God work in our lives beyond our salvation and needs met.

How you personally perceive Mercy doesn't change the biblical perspective of it. There are two irrefutable facts about Mercy and Grace:

Mercy emphasizes what God does not do to sinners even though they deserved worse.
Grace emphasizes what God does to or for undeserving sinners.

It's that's simple. I can explain it to you but I can't make you understand it.

The sin of David in taking the census is a great illustration of Mercy. God could have also punished Jerusalem but instead commanded his angel to stay his hand. Mercy never measures out the full extent of punishment a sinner rightly deserves.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

How you personally perceive Mercy doesn't change the biblical perspective of it. There are two irrefutable facts about Mercy and Grace:

Mercy emphasizes what God does not do to sinners even though they deserved worse.
Grace emphasizes what God does to or for undeserving sinners.

It's that's simple. I can explain it to you but I can't make you understand it.

The sin of David in taking the census is a great illustration of Mercy. God could have also punished Jerusalem but instead commanded his angel to stay his hand. Mercy never measures out the full extent of punishment a sinner rightly deserves.

I can look at my situation and determine by the Holy Spirit what is needed.

1. If I am in the valley like David's 23rd Psalm or Job, I need God's Mercy

2. If I am in line for a promotion on a job I need Gods Favor which is Grace.

But in the example of the "valley or Job," the Mercy God had resulted in Favor which is Grace (we know how Job was restored and given more than he had lost)

 

[Rufus]

I can look at my situation and determine by the Holy Spirit what is needed.

1. If I am in the valley like David's 23rd Psalm or Job, I need God's Mercy

2. If I am in line for a promotion on a job I need Gods Favor which is Grace.

But in the example of the "valley or Job," the Mercy God had resulted in Favor which is Grace (we know how Job was restored and given more than he had lost)

Actually, I'm a wee bit inclined to think that the All-Wise, Omniscient God who knows our hearts better than we could ever know our own would be in much better position to know exactly what each us needs. When I look "at my situation", I tend to pray for his help, his guidance, his wisdom, his leading, etc.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

Actually, I'm a wee bit inclined to think that the All-Wise, Omniscient God who knows our hearts better than we could ever know our own would be in much better position to know exactly what each us needs. When I look "at my situation", I tend to pray for his help, his guidance, his wisdom, his leading, etc.

But we also know our own situations as well if we're being honest with ourselves.

 

[Rufus]

But we also know our own situations as well if we're being honest with ourselves.

Better than God knows? When you were learning the scriptures between the tender ages of 6 and 13, did any of your instructors have you commit to memory Jer 17:9?

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

Better than God knows? When you were learning the scriptures between the tender ages of 6 and 13, did any of your instructors have you commit to memory Jer 17:9?

God knows before you're ever in that situation so it's extremely essential that you can see it for yourself.

 

[Rufus]

God knows before you're ever in that situation so it's extremely essential that you can see it for yourself.

No, it's not essential. I do not have to lean upon my own understanding, do I? I can trust in the Lord with all my heart, as Solomon exhorted, can't I (Prov 3:5)?

And besides that, David didn't even trust his own heart.

Ps 26:2
2 Test me, O LORD, and try me,
examine my heart and my mind;
NIV

And,

Ps 139:23-24
23 Search me, O God, and know my heart;
test me and know my anxious thoughts.
24 See if there is any offensive way in me,
and lead me in the way everlasting.
NIV

David clearly understood that the Lord was infinitely more trustworthy than his own heart!

 

[studier]

David clearly understood that the Lord was infinitely more trustworthy than his own heart!

So did Paul: 3 But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged by you or by a human court1. In fact, I do not even judge myself. 4 For I know nothing against myself, yet I am not justified by this; but He who judges me is the Lord. 5 Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord comes, who will both bring to light the hidden things of darkness and reveal the counsels of the hearts. Then each one's praise will come from God. (1 Cor. 4:3-5 NKJ)

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

No, it's not essential. I do not have to lean upon my own understanding, do I? I can trust in the Lord with all my heart, as Solomon exhorted, can't I (Prov 3:5)?

And besides that, David didn't even trust his own heart.

Ps 26:2
2 Test me, O LORD, and try me,
examine my heart and my mind;
NIV

And,

Ps 139:23-24
23 Search me, O God, and know my heart;
test me and know my anxious thoughts.
24 See if there is any offensive way in me,
and lead me in the way everlasting.
NIV

David clearly understood that the Lord was infinitely more trustworthy than his own heart!

Are you saying when you're going through a valley or trial in your life you are not able to recognize that it is a trial?

This is all I am saying to you is we should be able to recognize the mess we're in.

 

[Rufus]

I still intend to expound some on what should be understood by the "sheep" metaphor but meanwhile the other morning, while having my daily meditations in the Word, I came upon Matthew 18 in which Jesus teaches us the doctrine of the Preservation of the Saints. Our very own Mr. Shiloh often has referred to this doctrine and its sister (Perseverance of the Saints, i.e. the "P" in TULIP) as "OSAS", which is a misleading misrepresentation of the Reformed doctrine. While it is true that God in Christ is an actual Savior who saves his chosen ones to the uttermost, and will indeed finish the work of salvation HE started (the operative term here being "He"), nonetheless "OSAS" does not sufficiently express how all the saints of God will indeed attain to their final glory at the end of the age.

I'm not sure why Calvin and other notable Reformers expressed the Eternal Security of the Saints by an effect of God's Grace as opposed to the cause of their Perseverance, which of course is God's Preserving Power. But it is what it is. Thankfully, we don't have to rely on the wisdom or doctrine of men, no matter how well-intentioned these may be -- most certainly when we have crystal clear teaching from the Living Word of God himself. So, let's us see what the Good Shepherd of our souls teaches us, shall we?

Matt 18:1-6; 10-14
18:1 At that time the disciples came to Jesus and asked, "Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?"

2 He called a little child and had him stand among them. 3 And he said: "I tell you the truth, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. 4 Therefore, whoever humbles himself like this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.

5 "And whoever welcomes a little child like this in my name welcomes me. 6 But if anyone causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a large millstone hung around his neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea...

10 "See that you do not look down on one of these little ones. For I tell you that their angels in heaven always see the face of my Father in heaven.

12 "What do you think? If a man owns a hundred sheep, and one of them wanders away, will he not leave the ninety-nine on the hills and go to look for the one that wandered off? 13 And if he finds it, I tell you the truth, he is happier about that one sheep than about the ninety-nine that did not wander off. 14 In the same way your Father in heaven is not willing that any of these little ones should be lost.
NIV

Jesus reinforces his teaching with the Parable of the Lost Sheep in v.12. He cleverly rolled two stories into one, as it were. In the first part, he uses a small child as a "prop" to graphically illustrate his point. And in the second, he teaches a parable about lost sheep -- a parable that assuredly would have resonated with any shepherd within earshot of Jesus; for no one would know better than a shepherd just how weak, defenseless and helpless sheep are and how dependent they are upon the protection of their shepherds for their very life!

And what is true of sheep is equally as true with small children, as well. How long would a small child survive in this cursed, hostile world apart from the loving protection of his parents? Hence, Jesus called a child into the midst of adults.

In the child portion of Jesus' teaching, I see a double entendre employed by Jesus. In other words, the small child is not only a symbol of all true believers (v.5), but the child also represents himself in a real sense. The "small children" should be understood in the broadest sense to mean both physical size and spiritual status (cp. Mat 11:25). Therefore, we should understand v.14 in this broad sense also. God predestines the physically small children who die without having attained to a true knowledge of Good and Evil to inherit eternal life, just as he has predestined all his adopted, born again, spiritual chidren who have attained to such knowledge. It is NOT the Father's will that anyone in either of these two groups should ever perish -- that they should ever be eternally lost!

Now we come to part 2 of Jesus' teaching that strongly reinforces what he just taught about "little children". The parable, which he so smoothly and seamlessly weaved into his teaching, actually likens "little [helpless, dependent] children" to sheep. SHEEP! Animals who aren't the brightest bulbs in the animal kingdom, plus they're further handicapped with very limited physical abilities. They aren't fleet-footed. They lack fangs to bite back. And they lack claws to inflict wounds. Of all the herbivores on the planet, they have to be the most vulnerable of all to fatal attacks from any number of carnivores, most especially because they are of the size to provide more than a mere tasty morsel for a snack. Lions, bears and wolves, etc. would be very attracted to sheep because they could easily feast out on one adult sheep and be satisfied for days. In short, a sheep's life cycle would hang by one very thin fragile thread if it weren't for the loyal, faithful, loving and even fearless protection of its shepherds. (Recall David's account of his fearless defense on behalf of his sheep and how he bravely rescued them from the jaws of certain death by the formidable adversaries of lion and bear, cp. 1Sam 17:34-37?)

But because sheep aren't the most clever and brightest on the planet either, they can also become their own worst enemy. Evidently, sheep are prone to stray (Isa 53:6; 1Pet 2:25). And their problem becomes ever more exasperated when they are led by foolish or stupid shepherds (Jer 10:21). I don't think any straight thinking person can honestly say that sheep don't fit the spiritual profile that Paul expressed in 1Cor 1:26-29. God chose foolish things, weak things, base things, despised things of this world to be his people -- and sheep certainly seem to qualify being quite low on the food chain, as it were!

After Jesus telling how a true, loyal shephred will leave the 99 sheep to go after the one stray and then upon finding it will rejoice greatly over the one far more than over the 99 who did not wander, he then says in v.14 in the NIV rendering: IN THE SAME WAY YOUR FATHER IN HEAVEN is NOT willing that any of these little ones should be lost. So at the very end his teaching the Great Rabbi again seamlessly circles back to the "little children" he talked about earlier in part 1. In do doing, he likens his Father to being a Shepherd. (This is why I like the NIV rendering so much. Other more literal translations bacically say, "Thus it is not the will of your Father.." But the NIV captures the shepherd aspect to God's heart!) God, too, is loyal, faithful, loving and determined to not let any harm befall his sheep who are in His Beloved. He WILL make his sheep lie down in green pasture...for all eternity because this is precisely His will for all his elect.

This passage coupled with John 10 are, perhaps, the two most central passages in the NT that teach the doctrine of God's Preservation of his Saints. And it's because he Preserves that we will Persevere. It's no wonder Paul could write confidently about the predetermined destiny of all God's elect sheep:

Rom 8:28-30
28 And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose. 29 For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30 And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.
NIV

Glorification is the Goal of God's Savation. That when we all get to lie down in green pastures forever in the presence of our Good Shepherd.

But in the meantime, and notwithstanding the mixed metaphaor, The Great Shepherd of our souls is ever so vigilant in protecting his weak, defenseless and helpless sheep who can do postiviely NOTHING apart from abiding in this Shepherd and relying on him (Jn 15:4).

 

[Rufus]

Are you saying when you're going through a valley or trial in your life you are not able to recognize that it is a trial?

This is all I am saying to you is we should be able to recognize the mess we're in.

You're forgetting what you said earlier:

But we also know our own situations as well IF we're being honest with ourselves.

(emphasis mine).

That is a huge IF! David, Solomon and Paul all seem to think differently than you. None of them believed that the default inclination of a fallen human heart is honesty. Neither do I. Your sentiment above is another great example of how you consistently tend to overestimate man's ability, which invariably results in self-trust.