Did Jesus Die on The Cross for The Just/Elect/Saved Whose Names Are Written in The Book of Life OR

[Rufus]

And it means that some do have ears to hear spiritual things.

It's been addressed several times on this thread, but 1Cor2:14 is speaking in the context of hearing deeper spiritual things only mature Christians can understand. Not even immature Christians can yet understand them. The natural man has no chance of understanding them. It is not speaking about hearing and understanding that Jesus is the Christ.

And then there is v.15. The "spiritual man" stands in sharp contrast to the unregenerate, i.e. those in bondage to the flesh.

 

[Rufus]

He created people.
Do you think God has any limitations on being able to talk to people dead or alive?

Of course, God can talk to dead people. Didn't Jesus command Lazarus to come forth from his tomb? Didn't Lazarus "hear"? So, why would spiritual resurrection be any different?

 

[Rufus]

^
Several comments have been made that some believe God just chose them to be saved and they had no say in the matter. They were born and one day God just said whether you want to be or not I am making you to be saved.

I read that literally nowhere in the Bible.

And since it is nowhere in the Bible and such a fallacy I chose to give it an equally absurd name.

Oh...so that's how Lazarus responded to Christ's command? He had say in the matter? Jesus consulted with his soul in hades to confirm that he wanted to be raised?

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

Of course, God can talk to dead people. Didn't Jesus command Lazarus to come forth from his tomb? Didn't Lazarus "hear"? So, why would spiritual resurrection be any different?

Exactly

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

Oh...so that's how Lazarus responded to Christ's command? He had say in the matter? Jesus consulted with his soul in hades to confirm that he wanted to be raised?

Lazarus already believed even before having the Holy Spirit as a natural man.

 

[Rufus]

Free Will is opposite of God made me do it and I had no choice in the matter.

What makes you think your "free" will is not in bondage to your sin nature?

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

What makes you think your "free" will is not in bondage to your sin nature?

Because sin nature does not desire God but free will is a choice to override the sin natures desire.

 

[Cameron143]

Doesn't matter. No One speaks in tongues without being indwelled. The verse plainly states when the Spirit came upon them they spoke in tongues. It only works when you are filled with the Spirit. Otherwise it is just fake.

Right. But the indwelling proceeds the seal.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

Right. But the indwelling proceeds the seal.

But comes "after" the hearing

 

[Rufus]

Exactly

Hey, we're making progress. Jesus gives life to whom he wishes (like he did with Lazarus, for example, cp. Jn 5:21), so, too, all of his Father's elect he commands to leave their spiritual tombs and when they are raised, then they believe and repent. Spiritual Life precedes spiritual choices. Eminently logical and biblical.

 

[Rufus]

The Bible in multiple places says while they heard, not before, but as they were hearing...the Holy Spirit fell upon them....

But some here, 4 specifically, claim before they even heard preaching the Gospel, they were already regenerated. That is literally impossible according to the Bible.

That means they are saying, they didn't even have to BELIEVE Jesus is God because God bypassed every example in the Bible He Inspired in writing just for them.

They just became saved.

NOWHERE in the 66 Books is there any such example of that ever happening, nowhere!


I already told you what was predestined. That Believers in God would be Holy, Blameless, and Adopted because once you are in Jesus [in Him], this is what God designed before the foundation of the Earth.

In other words, the moment I heard the Gospel being preached, the Holy Spirit fell upon me, I Believed and was Regenerated, I became everything described in Ephesians. I became Holy, I became Blameless, I became Adopted Heirs of God. Because I now was in HIM [Christ Jesus].

Pure unadulterated nonsense. Prove your theory. Should be easy since you say it's in the bible.

 

[Rufus]

Lazarus already believed even before having the Holy Spirit as a natural man.

A non sequitur answer. Did Jesus consult with Lazarus in the underworld prior to issuing his command to him to raise up from his tomb? If not, then Jesus forced his will upon the man.

But if you want to go for broke and double down on your ignorance of the scriptures,...why don't you define for me what "having the Holy Spirit" was under the Old Covenant dispensation?

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

Pure unadulterated nonsense. Prove your theory. Should be easy since you say it's in the bible.

No need to prove something the Bible has verses for. It's saying otherwise where there are no verses anywhere that needs proof.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

A non sequitur answer. Did Jesus consult with Lazarus in the underworld prior to issuing his command to him to raise up from his tomb? If not, then Jesus forced his will upon the man.

But if you want to go for broke and double down on your ignorance of the scriptures,...why don't you define for me what "having the Holy Spirit" was under the Old Covenant dispensation?

Jesus hadn't DBR yet so Lazarus was 100% natural man. Just believing based upon miracles seen like many others.

 

[Rufus]

Firstly, and once again, it's refreshing to see someone here actually look at Scripture and the meaning of words. I've missed reading you today.

akouō can actually trend into obedience and to understand as well. If authority says, Did you hear me!? - the implication is clear. Do what you're told!

"let him" is how translators have chosen to translate 3rd person imperative commands. Jesus is in effect saying, The one who has ears, hear [this]/listen up (a command)! Your interpretation I've highlighted above catches this pretty well. And from there, being this is a command from God to hear, I'd have no problem personally trending into the understand and do what I say concept.

It would seem to me the question asked implies another question: Did you understand me!? To "hear" can mean to "gain information", "learn", "to receive communication".

 

[studier]

And then there is v.15. The "spiritual man" stands in sharp contrast to the unregenerate, i.e. those in bondage to the flesh.

You must be busy. In & out of here.

The natural man in 1Cor2 is used in contrast to the mature/spiritual Christian who is the only one who can understand the deep things of God Paul is talking about. Not even the "babes in Christ" can understand these things. This is not talking about the basics of the Gospel nor God Consciousness. Here's the work.

And here's more you've fallen behind in. And here

Scripture only please.

 

[Rufus]

No need to prove something the Bible has verses for. It's saying otherwise where there are no verses anywhere that needs proof.

IOW, you don't know where the verses are!

 

[Cameron143]

But comes "after" the hearing

That's your story, and you're sticking with it.

 

[studier]

It would seem to me the question asked implies another question: Did you understand me!? To "hear" can mean to "gain information", "learn", "to receive communication".

You can make it say anything you want. That's part of the beauty of Scripture. It allows us to run amok and be a pain to one another!

It means what the phrase - a command - plainly says, Listen Up! Hear This! If you prefer Understand This! you're taking it a bit afield, but I've already said I could go there (but under caution) but it's still a command to do what He says, so He expected them to do what He commanded. At times we can see the good students asking for explanations and the Good Teacher explaining Himself. This is not a difficult phrase.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

IOW, you don't know where the verses are!

I already presented them. I just am repeating now. They are in the pages. If you really wanted to find them you would have. But I doubt you want to do something like that.