Did Jesus ever tell us that we no longer need to keep the law of Moses?

[TheDivineWatermark]

No this has nothing to do with forfeited salvation, any salvation at all. It has to (thought I was in wrong thread)to do with exhibiting more brotherly love in the words and phrases that seem to instantly divide as oppose to bring together in understanding. Be they overt or covert. That was all. Maybe talking to myself a bit also.

Yeah (sorry, just now seeing this ), okay... thanks for clarifying (I think I thought I was in the "Not By Works" thread, perhaps there was something similar posted there [??]).


This also gives me the opportunity to correct my post (upthread) from saying "whose" to "who's"... lol

 

[SimpleGardner]

Are they a "Christian" who say they are a Christian?
Can we "see" what a Christian looks like? Yes, they shine bright.
Can we hear what a Christian sounds like? Yes, it is in their words.

Ephesians 4:1 I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord beseech you that
ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called
with lowliness and meekness, with long suffering forebearing one another in love endeavoring
to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace
There is
one body, and one Spirit even as ye are called in one hope of your calling
One Lord, one faith, one baptism, One God and Father of all,
who is above all and through all and in you all
but unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure the gift of Christ wherefore He saith When He ascended up on high He led captivity the captive
and gave gifts unto men.

But the fruit of the Spirit is LOVE, JOY, PEACE, LONGSUFFERING, GENTLENESS, GOODNESS, FAITH, MEEKNESS, TEMPERANCE, against such there is no law. And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.


Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness, considering thyself lest thou also be tempted

Bear ye one anothers burdens and so fulfil the law of Christ

For if a man think himself to be something when he is nothing HE DECEIVETH HIMSELF

But let every man PROVE HIS OWN WORK, and then shall he have rejoicing in himself alone and not in another

For every man shall bear his own burden

Let him that is taught in the word communicate unto him that teacheth in all good things

Be not deceived,
GOD IS NOT MOCKED, FOR WHATSOEVER A MAN SOWETH,
THAT SHALL HE ALSO REAP.

Greetings DeighAnn,

Excellent verses for us to all keep in mind. Thank You.


SG

 

[Dan_473]

Sorry, I wasn't in on the conversation from the beginning. Please catch me up, what is the point you are making? Thanks SG

When one is reading prophecy, or scripture in general, it may not be saying what one thinks it says.

What is the passage that talks about God divorcing the northern kingdom?

 

[SimpleGardner]

Hey Dan,

Thought I had this linked via reply to your request. Hope this helps.

Jer 3:8 KJV And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also.

 

[SimpleGardner]

I think quantum physics is easier!

By the way...are you a Quantum Physicist?

 

[SimpleGardner]

they also seem to not be able to grasp the concept that God made a COVENANT with Israel at Sinai.

covenants are very specific things that both parties involved make specific agreements with each other over very specific behavior.

it is what you said. they do the same things the Pharisees did- instead of accepting Scripture as written, they change and rearrange it to suit their belief system.

Hello gb9,

Couldn't help but notice the "exclusive" language they, they, and their. You have made it clear where we stand relative to you.

You might take the time to consider if you are sounding like the Pharisee in this parable:

Luk 18:9-14 NIV To some who were confident of their own righteousness and looked down on everybody else, Jesus told this parable: (10) "Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. (11) The Pharisee stood up and prayed about himself: 'God, I thank you that I am not like other men—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector. (12) I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.' (13) "But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, 'God, have mercy on me, a sinner.' (14) "I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted."

I will do the same.

SG

 

[Dan_473]

Hey Dan,

Thought I had this linked via reply to your request. Hope this helps.

Jer 3:8 KJV And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also.

I see, thanks.
Does this affect what laws you feel we are to keep today?

 

[Yahshua]

It seems a firestorm of replies to me was ignited while I was gone! My apologies to all but had a busy week with work.

 

[SimpleGardner]

I see, thanks.
Does this affect what laws you feel we are to keep today?

Did we have an unfinished conversation a week or two back where I mentioned an answer to your question why some were not required to be circumcised and the Judahites were?

 

[SimpleGardner]

It seems a firestorm of replies to me was ignited while I was gone! My apologies to all but had a busy week with work.

Glad to see you here. Been busy too, may be out off and on too.

 

[Marcelo]

By the way...are you a Quantum Physicist?

No, I am not, but I know quantum physics is something nobody understands.

Does your church provide members with a list of effective Mitzvot, out of the original 613?

 

[SimpleGardner]

No, I am not, but I know quantum physics is something nobody understands.

Does your church provide members with a list of effective Mitzvot, out of the original 613?

No, The body of beleivers I fellowship with regularly are over the phone or net with occasional visits. We study the Scriptures and receive our guidance from the Holy Spirit. We fellowship and share our understanding and work together to insure that we are being faithful to the scriptures.

Cannot say I know of any "churches" that do that. Does yours?

 

[SimpleGardner]

I see, thanks.
Does this affect what laws you feel we are to keep today?

How would you think it would affect us today? Not saying it wouldn't, but would like to hear your reasoning.

 

[DeighAnn]

Almost all of the NT is rooted in the intricacies of the history of the OT. Without a working knowledge of these we can draw conclusions that miss the mark.

Even much of the OT relies upon other OT details to even come close to understanding what is going on.

I am convinced that God created our minds with the intent that our Faith and Spiritual wellness would be dependent upon our applying the logic and reasoning faculties He gave us. We must seek Him out!

For example; How would ;

Gen 9:22 KJV And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father, and told his two brethren without.


relate to;


Lev 18:8 KJV The nakedness of thy father's wife shalt thou not uncover: it is thy father's nakedness.

and;

Lev 20:11 KJV And the man that lieth with his father's wife hath uncovered his father's nakedness: both of them shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

?

All of scripture, inspired by higher thinking beings than us, insists that we use the faculties given to us rather than accepting what other men have written down.

Getting off my soap box...

SG

Seek and ye shall find, those buried treasures are well worth the seeking.

 

[Yahshua]

In reading through the replies to me, maybe it's best to work backwards, starting at the very last book.

Revelation 15 is a vision of the last plagues on the earth to destroy the wicked, so clearly it's "end times" and in it we're told that the victorious/overcomers will sing "the song of Moses and the Lamb".

Why is this NT text bringing attention to Moses AND The Lamb? Why not just the Lamb if The Messiah's grace replaced Moses' law?

And again we're given Revelation 14:12 mentioning that the patient endurance of the saints is the keeps The Commands of Yah and the faith of the Messiah. Why endure? What's difficult to accomplish in context here?

Next, if we go back further - before what many believe is the rapture event - we have the letters to the seven assemblies in Revelation 2 and 3, where The Messiah is judging their "works", warning that he'll take away the light of some, promising food from the tree of life to others, and pointing out to others their "sins" (which are transgressions of the law) which they should repent from before he returns and fights against them with the sword of his mouth (which Revelation 19 says is exactly how The Messiah's enemies are destroyed).

If we don't need to keep the law of Moses why is the Messiah warning about continuing in sin (after his resurrection) if keeping the law is no longer necessary; encouraging others to do good works, in his 7 letters?

I think the seven letters are the best place to find the answers to the question asked in this thread's title.

 

[Marcelo]

No, The body of beleivers I fellowship with regularly are over the phone or net with occasional visits. We study the Scriptures and receive our guidance from the Holy Spirit. We fellowship and share our understanding and work together to insure that we are being faithful to the scriptures.

Cannot say I know of any "churches" that do that. Does yours?

But probably you have your own list of effective Mitzvot, don't you? Out of the original 613 how many do you keep?

No, my church doesn't teach Law keeping at all.

 

[gb9]

Hello gb9,

Couldn't help but notice the "exclusive" language they, they, and their. You have made it clear where we stand relative to you.

You might take the time to consider if you are sounding like the Pharisee in this parable:

Luk 18:9-14 NIV To some who were confident of their own righteousness and looked down on everybody else, Jesus told this parable: (10) "Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. (11) The Pharisee stood up and prayed about himself: 'God, I thank you that I am not like other men—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector. (12) I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.' (13) "But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, 'God, have mercy on me, a sinner.' (14) "I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted."

I will do the same.

SG

well, since Pharisees say to keep the Law, you say keep the Law, I say Christ followers are not nor were gentiles ever under the Law, because it is 100% ture.

and when I say " you guys " or " " them", I mean you Judeaizsers who keep trying to drag us back to Sinai.

 

[FollowHisSteps]

well, since Pharisees say to keep the Law, you say keep the Law, I say Christ followers are not nor were gentiles ever under the Law, because it is 100% ture.

and when I say " you guys " or " " them", I mean you Judeaizsers who keep trying to drag us back to Sinai.

Warning, warning, miss-use of the term law. Law as in the law of Moses is different from the Law of Christ.
We are bound to love, slaves of righteousness, a heart tied to God desiring to walk in His ways and follow
Jesus.

The problem is if we obey Jesus and hunger and thirst for righteousness, the legalistic hunters after
legalists, will pick up innocents and execute them, so denying the very argument they are trying to follow.

But then if one can claim one is against rules and legalism, how does one stop being against God,
the author of the law and He who rewards those who obey the law of Christ?
What is also ironic, talk about gay sex or adultery, or sexual abuse and the law of Christ is fine and right.
Talk about dropping gun rights or dropping the rights of an individual to behave as they like, and answer
for the evil they do, and you are a legalist who is the worst of the worst.

So in truth this is just liberal cultural christianity in the guise of living by faith.
I wonder if there are kinds of people wrapped up somewhere in this thinking, or if you express a social
conscience and believe in welfare, you are definately doomed to the hell fire

 

[SimpleGardner]

In reading through the replies to me, maybe it's best to work backwards, starting at the very last book.

Revelation 15 is a vision of the last plagues on the earth to destroy the wicked, so clearly it's "end times" and in it we're told that the victorious/overcomers will sing "the song of Moses and the Lamb".

Why is this NT text bringing attention to Moses AND The Lamb? Why not just the Lamb if The Messiah's grace replaced Moses' law?

And again we're given Revelation 14:12 mentioning that the patient endurance of the saints is the keeps The Commands of Yah and the faith of the Messiah. Why endure? What's difficult to accomplish in context here?

Next, if we go back further - before what many believe is the rapture event - we have the letters to the seven assemblies in Revelation 2 and 3, where The Messiah is judging their "works", warning that he'll take away the light of some, promising food from the tree of life to others, and pointing out to others their "sins" (which are transgressions of the law) which they should repent from before he returns and fights against them with the sword of his mouth (which Revelation 19 says is exactly how The Messiah's enemies are destroyed).

If we don't need to keep the law of Moses why is the Messiah warning about continuing in sin (after his resurrection) if keeping the law is no longer necessary; encouraging others to do good works, in his 7 letters?

I think the seven letters are the best place to find the answers to the question asked in this thread's title.

Greetings Y,

In;

Exo 20:6 NIV but showing love to a thousand generations of those who love me and keep my commandments.

How many years are there in a thousand generations? Does this mean?!....

 

[SimpleGardner]

Warning, warning, miss-use of the term law. Law as in the law of Moses is different from the Law of Christ.
We are bound to love, slaves of righteousness, a heart tied to God desiring to walk in His ways and follow
Jesus.

The problem is if we obey Jesus and hunger and thirst for righteousness, the legalistic hunters after
legalists, will pick up innocents and execute them, so denying the very argument they are trying to follow.

But then if one can claim one is against rules and legalism, how does one stop being against God,
the author of the law and He who rewards those who obey the law of Christ?
What is also ironic, talk about gay sex or adultery, or sexual abuse and the law of Christ is fine and right.
Talk about dropping gun rights or dropping the rights of an individual to behave as they like, and answer
for the evil they do, and you are a legalist who is the worst of the worst.

So in truth this is just liberal cultural christianity in the guise of living by faith.
I wonder if there are kinds of people wrapped up somewhere in this thinking, or if you express a social
conscience and believe in welfare, you are definately doomed to the hell fire

Hey FHS,

I gently pointed out a probable error and ep9 knee-jerked an attack. Unteachable spirit possibly, spirit of contentiousness, either way he is available to talk, not listen. Sure fire way to miss the truth when it presents itself. When the adversary locks you into a doctrine that you will never accept criticism of then you will obviously never depart from that doctrine. So, if there is any error, you are locked into that error. Out of thousands of variations on Bible Versions and Christian sects what are the chances that you have chosen the "one" that is doctrinally perfect, if even any are perfect?! With those odds, a man had better opt for the guidance from the Holy Spirit. This is how Jesus declared we should receive our truth.

Bless YHWH, Know and Keep