Did Jesus ever tell us that we no longer need to keep the law of Moses?

[Leastamongmany]

EG you are so laughable! You also need a good dictionary not liking does NOT equate to hate! I NEVER backtrack,but if I receive conviction by the HS I will ask forgiveness for an offense against another! I am filled with the Holy Spirit and HE speaks thru me in utterances and stammering lips that are to God. I do not understand what He says but He talks to the Father about the me even I am unaware of! You are soooooooo good at TELLING ppl what to do ,maybe YOU NEED TO TAKE YOU OWN ADVICE! Very seldom do you ever post I'll pray for you to another! Very seldom do you encourage others. Check your own mirror eh,EG!

 

[Yahshua]

New Covenant - Faith in Christ, Giving of the Holy Spirit, Revelation in the Knowledge of Christ.

Old Covenant - Blessed or Cursed by working at the law (10 commandments + all the statutes and ordinances that went along with them)

A judaizer is a person who takes their focus off Christ and puts it on their effort at the law in some way.

It's not a trick question. If you can't answer based on the scriptures then it's best to not answer.

What do the scriptures say the old covenant and new covenant are, respectively?

 

[Grandpa]

There's that word again...

Can you share in a short sentence what the new covenant is? And then share in a short sentence what the old covenant is?

This may be the source of our differences.

It's not a trick question. If you can't answer based on the scriptures then it's best to not answer.

What do the scriptures say the old covenant and new covenant are, respectively?

Oh, you didn't understand my simple short sentences? Its starting to seem like maybe it WAS a trick question...



New Covenant - Faith in Christ, Giving of the Holy Spirit, Revelation in the Knowledge of Christ.

Old Covenant - Blessed or Cursed by working at the law (10 commandments + all the statutes and ordinances that went along with them)

A judaizer is a person who takes their focus off Christ and puts it on their effort at the law in some way.


New Covenant - Matthew 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
Galatians 2:19 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.
Ephesians 1:17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:

Old Covenant - Deuteronomy 11:27-28
27 A blessing, if ye obey the commandments of the Lord your God, which I command you this day:
28 And a curse, if ye will not obey the commandments of the Lord your God, but turn aside out of the way which I command you this day, to go after other gods, which ye have not known.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I don't know what to say without fueling the flame. I am reading and I understand you are frustrated. I want you to know, brother, I am lifting cc and all its members and all my brothers and sisters in prayer, truly, hoping to encourage the believers and reach the lost.

Love to you and yours, in Christ.

I understand sis.. I will still call them out..

If it was a doctrinal issue, I can deal. But when people refuse to discuss the doctrinal issue, and just make false accusations like this. Thats bearing false witness. And I will continue to call it out..

There can be no unity when people are acting that way.

 

[Yahshua]

Oh, you didn't understand my simple short sentences? Its starting to seem like maybe it WAS a trick question...



New Covenant - Faith in Christ, Giving of the Holy Spirit, Revelation in the Knowledge of Christ.

Old Covenant - Blessed or Cursed by working at the law (10 commandments + all the statutes and ordinances that went along with them)

A judaizer is a person who takes their focus off Christ and puts it on their effort at the law in some way.


New Covenant - Matthew 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
Galatians 2:19 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.
Ephesians 1:17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:

Old Covenant - Deuteronomy 11:27-28
27 A blessing, if ye obey the commandments of the Lord your God, which I command you this day:
28 And a curse, if ye will not obey the commandments of the Lord your God, but turn aside out of the way which I command you this day, to go after other gods, which ye have not known.

I asked what the covenants are.

It only seems like a trick to those who, as Peter says, are unstable in the scriptures, and really need a proper foundation in them.

Without a foundation, they can fall for anything, even another Christ.

The scriptures define what the covenants are:

Covenant at Mt. Sinai - For Israel to obey Yah so to become a royal nation of priests to the world. Exodus 19:5

New Covenant - To place Yah's laws in Israel's & Judah's mind and heart and forgive them of their sins. Jeremiah 31:33

Simple sentences based on the scriptures.

Do the covenants conflict in any way with each other? If so, how?

 

[PS]

It's not a trick question. If you can't answer based on the scriptures then it's best to not answer.

What do the scriptures say the old covenant and new covenant are, respectively?

The tragedy of Israel is that they failed to keep God’s Covenant. (You can see this all the way through the Old Testament.)

In spite of many appeals through prophets and leaders, God’s agreement with Israel was repeatedly broken. The later prophets began to see that the sinfulness and weakness of humanity made it impossible for people to keep their end of the bargain. Through them God began to show that he would introduce a new and everlasting covenant: not an external but an internal one, that is, not written on tablets of stone, but on the very hearts of us all. More wonderfully still, it would no longer be limited to only Jews, it was for all people.

You ask what scripture says and I have told you what scripture says about the Old Testament Covenant. Now listen to what God says about the New Covenant between God and man. The disciples were obviously familiar with the Old Covenant made between Israel and God, and in the Upper Room, God made a New Covenant between humankind and himself when He said, “This is My blood of the New Covenant, which is poured out for many.” (Mar 14:24 MKJV)

 

[Yahshua]

The tragedy of Israel is that they failed to keep God’s Covenant. (You can see this all the way through the Old Testament.)

In spite of many appeals through prophets and leaders, God’s agreement with Israel was repeatedly broken. The later prophets began to see that the sinfulness and weakness of humanity made it impossible for people to keep their end of the bargain. Through them God began to show that he would introduce a new and everlasting covenant: not an external but an internal one, that is, not written on tablets of stone, but on the very hearts of us all. More wonderfully still, it would no longer be limited to only Jews, it was for all people.

You ask what scripture says and I have told you what scripture says about the Old Testament Covenant. Now listen to what God says about the New Covenant between God and man. The disciples were obviously familiar with the Old Covenant made between Israel and God, and in the Upper Room, God made a New Covenant between humankind and himself when He said, “This is My blood of the New Covenant, which is poured out for many.” (Mar 14:24 MKJV)

Hi.

Where in the scriptures, when yah was promising the new covenant, did he ever promise to make it with all people; all mankind?

The "many" in the phrase can also be read "many in Israel who believe in me".

It's important to lock down what (and who) the covenants are for in order to prove whether we (who are called judaizers) are "interpeting the New Covenant backward into the Old, instead of letting the New stand on its on."

The only way to do that is using the scriptures that the disciples considered scripture, since their NT letters and the gospels wouldn't have been considered scripture to them.

 

[PS]

Hi.

Where in the scriptures, when yah was promising the new covenant, did he ever promise to make it with all people; all mankind?

The "many" in the phrase can also be read "many in Israel who believe in me".

It's important to lock down what (and who) the covenants are for in order to prove whether we (who are called judaizers) are "interpeting the New Covenant backward into the Old, instead of letting the New stand on its on."

The only way to do that is using the scriptures that the disciples considered scripture, since their NT letters and the gospels wouldn't have been considered scripture to them.

.
The New Covenant promised
Jer 31:31-35 KJV Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: (32) Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: (33) But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. (34) And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more. (35) Thus saith the LORD, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The LORD of hosts is his name:


The New Covenant is between God-
Isa_9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.


and ALL those who believe
Joh 3:16 KJV For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

 

[Yahshua]

I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

Joh 3:16 KJV For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Have you ever come across the following passage? It exactly matches the words Christ said in John 3:16 above.

Isaiah 45:17
17 But Israel shall be saved in the Lord with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end


The promise is for Israel to be an unending world; an everlasting kingdom.


Romans 9:1-5
I say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost, That I have great heaviness and continual sorrow in my heart. For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:

4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises; Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.


The Israelites, to whom pertains:

- the adoption
- the glory
- the covenantssssssssss
- the law (notice it's a separate entry)
- the service
- the promisessss
- of whom Christ came in the flesh


Amos 3:1-2
Hear this word that the Lord hath spoken against you, O children of Israel, against the whole family which I brought up from the land of Egypt, saying,

2 You only have I known of all the families of the earth:


The new covenant isn't made with all mankind. It's made with Israelites; with Israel.

But the law has always allowed gentiles to graft into (and become part of) Israel, but everything is for Israel. Everything. The covenants are for them. And in that way "all Israel will be saved", both the wild branches grafted in and the natural branches regrafted. Romans 11.

 

[PS]

Have you ever come across the following passage? It exactly matches the words Christ said in John 3:16 above.

Isaiah 45:17
17 But Israel shall be saved in the Lord with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end


The promise is for Israel to be an unending world; an everlasting kingdom.


Romans 9:1-5
I say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost, That I have great heaviness and continual sorrow in my heart. For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:

4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises; Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.


The Israelites, to whom pertains:

- the adoption
- the glory
- the covenantssssssssss
- the law (notice it's a separate entry)
- the service
- the promisessss
- of whom Christ came in the flesh


Amos 3:1-2
Hear this word that the Lord hath spoken against you, O children of Israel, against the whole family which I brought up from the land of Egypt, saying,

2 You only have I known of all the families of the earth:


The new covenant isn't made with all mankind. It's made with Israelites; with Israel.

But the law has always allowed gentiles to graft into (and become part of) Israel, but everything is for Israel. Everything. The covenants are for them. And in that way "all Israel will be saved", both the wild branches grafted in and the natural branches regrafted. Romans 11.

This is the One true God worshipped by Christians across the whole world, who you correctly say is the God of the New Covenant made with Israel that replaces the Old Covenant. His name on earth is Jesus.

 

[Grandpa]

I asked what the covenants are.

It only seems like a trick to those who, as Peter says, are unstable in the scriptures, and really need a proper foundation in them.

Without a foundation, they can fall for anything, even another Christ.

The scriptures define what the covenants are:

Covenant at Mt. Sinai - For Israel to obey Yah so to become a royal nation of priests to the world. Exodus 19:5

New Covenant - To place Yah's laws in Israel's & Judah's mind and heart and forgive them of their sins. Jeremiah 31:33

Simple sentences based on the scriptures.

Do the covenants conflict in any way with each other? If so, how?

I didn't think the sentences I wrote that were based on scripture were too difficult either.

I have a hard time though thinking of the New Covenant without Christ anywhere in it.

Seems a little unstable with no foundation.


I think what I said is a lot closer to the Truth than what you have wrote. But you are stuck in your work at the law so I guess it is to be expected.

 

[Grandpa]

I asked what the covenants are.

It only seems like a trick to those who, as Peter says, are unstable in the scriptures, and really need a proper foundation in them.

Without a foundation, they can fall for anything, even another Christ.

The scriptures define what the covenants are:

Covenant at Mt. Sinai - For Israel to obey Yah so to become a royal nation of priests to the world. Exodus 19:5

New Covenant - To place Yah's laws in Israel's & Judah's mind and heart and forgive them of their sins. Jeremiah 31:33

Simple sentences based on the scriptures.

Do the covenants conflict in any way with each other? If so, how?

How do you have the New Covenant without faith in Christ, without the giving of the Holy Spirit and without Revelation in the Knowledge of Christ?

It falls a little flat, doesn't it? Maybe a teensy bit?

 

[Tx77]

Greetings Tx77,

How's the book on the Festivals? Had any time to peek at it yet?

SG

Sorry, I have been offline for a few day getting ready for school to start. I have glanced at it but have not started to read it yet. I did open it up to one page that explained a lot concerning the Sabbath which told me just in that half a page that it will be a book full of valuable information.

 

[Tx77]

Good Morning Tx77,

I wanted to ask you if you have ever heard of "eSword"? It's a Computer based software and requires zero internet connectivity to use.

IT"S AMAZING! and IT"S FREE!

And NO! I am not an eSword Rep or anything, just a long time user!



SG

eSword Link

Yes, I have in the past heard of eSword. Thanks for reminding me of this, downloading the app right now.

 

[Tx77]

Welcome to CC.

I too am saddened by those who think the OT is useless. Or should just be disregarded. There is so much in the OT which we can learn from. Not to mention all the prophecy which not only helps ur faith in seeing Christ fulfill them. And as of yet future prophesies which show God is not slack concerning his promise, and that this evil we see on earth today will be dealt with.

Then of course we have the historical aspect. Which continues to prove God is God. And the bible is the word. The examples of how god deals with people. And how people grow their faith anbd really how much Grace God really shows (it saddens me when people think the OT God is a vindictive punishing Gd and fail to see his grace)

Then the law. Where we can study, and this too grows our faith that we made the right decision in trusting God. And help us understand even the smallest of all sins is so destructive to our relationship with God that it carries with it the penalty of death.

But what do you think about the law and our life today? While sin is still sin (bearing false witness, murder, Coveting, Dishonoring our parents etc) and those things will never fade. What parts of the law are we to follow? As it seems that is the discussion in this thread. (I hope you see this)

I pray also you know I am asking honestly.. As some people here think otherwise..

Again, Welcome to CC. I look forward to seeing what you have to share.

Yes, I agree with you! I think I mentioned in one of the earlier posts that I felt like I was jumping trains so kind of pulled back at that point - per discussion of the law. That is something I am going to have to dive deeper (which I am currently doing). While exploring this it just keeps leading me to many other things. I am chasing so many things right now for truth that I cannot solely focus on one. So I decided just to better understand the Word of God by those who can translate from original Hebrew and Greek text. That is opened a wealth of knowledge for me and I am just getting started. So to be honest, I cannot answer your question right now.

 

[posthuman]

New Covenant - To place Yah's laws in Israel's & Judah's mind and heart and forgive them of their sins. Jeremiah 31:33

exactly what law is that?
what does scripture say?

To the Jews I became as a Jew, in order to win Jews. To those under the law I became as one under the law (though not being myself under the law) that I might win those under the law. To those outside the law I became as one outside the law (not being outside the law of God but under the law of Christ) that I might win those outside the law.
(1 Corinthians 9:20-21)

​

 

[posthuman]

New Covenant - To place Yah's laws in Israel's & Judah's mind and heart and forgive them of their sins. Jeremiah 31:33

exactly what law is this?

“Where, O death, is your victory?
Where, O death, is your sting?”​

The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law.
But thanks be to God! He gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.​

(1 Corinthians 15:55-57)
​

does God write the power of sin in the hearts of those He redeems?

 

[SimpleGardner]

Sorry, I have been offline for a few day getting ready for school to start. I have glanced at it but have not started to read it yet. I did open it up to one page that explained a lot concerning the Sabbath which told me just in that half a page that it will be a book full of valuable information.

I think I will order it too. I get a witness that the feasts are important to know as much as we can about.

 

[SimpleGardner]

Yes, I have in the past heard of eSword. Thanks for reminding me of this, downloading the app right now.

Easy to learn and there are quite a few helpful modules and even stuff people have custom built for eSword! From places like biblesupport.com

 

[NayborBear]

I'm not sure how to interpret your remarks. Perhaps you can help me understand.

I don't know anyone who denies that the Father is God (YHVH). I know some heretics who deny the deity of Christ.

I have talked with some Christians who feel that other Christians honor Christ over the Father. I remember one guy in particular. He was disgusted by Christians in his group that thanked Jesus for some blessing and insists that they were immature and should have been thanking the Father. I was part of a group at one point that hated how Christians honored Christ, and made it their continual habit to criticize and mock them for expressing adoration to Christ.

I don't draw lines like that because the Father is YHVH, the Son is YHVH and the Holy Spirit is YHVH. I am Trinitarian. As a default, though, I pray to the Father. This doesn't mean that one can't pray to Jesus, because Stephen addressed him during his martyrdom. It is impossible to separate the Triune God anyways. You can distinguish between the Persons, but there is only one God, YHVH, the Triune God.

By the way, the guy I mentioned earlier....I have some concerns that he may have been an Arian in practice, if not in belief. Maybe he would deny this concern, but I think his words betray a failure to honor the Son as the Father intends.

I would also note that within the Triune God, the Father exalts the Son, and the Son glorifies the Father. God is pleased when the Son receives honor too.

Tis curious indeed, you consider the Holy spirit as YHVH.
Even when Christ stated, that you can curse Me, and the Father, and be forgiven. But, cursing, or blaspheming the Holy Spirit, is so unforgivable, that this sin, is neither forgiven in this age? Or, the age to come!

So when you pray? How do you know you are not praying to the Holy Spirit? All being the same, yanno? For, we are not to pray to the Holy Spirit.

Or Praying to Christ, our High Priest, in the Fathers name, for that matter.

Or praying in the High Priest's name to the Holy Spirit?

Or, the Father's Name, to the Holy Spirit?

Seems so confusing, and so apt for one to be praying to?

2 Thessalonians 2
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.