Did Jesus ever tell us that we no longer need to keep the law of Moses?

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RickStudies

Active member
Sep 10, 2019
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what about the law of Christ and the law of the spirit? or the law of God?

The law of sin and death as paul stated is the law of moses. Because there can be no righteousness found in the law of moses, only death (cursed is the one who does not obey every word)
As ligtbearer so ably clarified this morning. Moses Law isn`t the law of sin and death.
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
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what about the law of Christ and the law of the spirit? or the law of God?

The law of sin and death as paul stated is the law of moses. Because there can be no righteousness found in the law of moses, only death (cursed is the one who does not obey every word)
So you have ruled out the law of Moses, and of course you will rule out the law of the flesh which governs us to a large degree and appears to be our Adamic nature of sin and death. That leaves the commandments of Christ and the Holy Spirit to guide us.
 
Mar 14, 2011
65,387
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As ligtbearer so ably clarified this morning. Moses Law isn`t the law of sin and death.
Aww,

But it is.

Whoever does not obey every word, the punishment is death.


I also gave scripture to prove what I said.

Paul also called it the ministration of death.

So forgive me if I listen to God and not to you and another person who does not understand the law
 
Mar 14, 2011
65,387
11,861
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So you have ruled out the law of Moses, and of course you will rule out the law of the flesh which governs us to a large degree and appears to be our Adamic nature of sin and death. That leaves the commandments of Christ and the Holy Spirit to guide us.

Only one thing guides me

1. learning to love as God loved me
2. Learning to produce the fruit of the spirit by seeking after the things of the spirit

NO LAW can help me with these things.. If there had been a law which could. Then we would never have needed christ to begin with.
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
5,302
685
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Only one thing guides me

1. learning to love as God loved me
2. Learning to produce the fruit of the spirit by seeking after the things of the spirit


NO LAW can help me with these things.. If there had been a law which could. Then we would never have needed christ to begin with.
I agree.
 

DeighAnn

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
Jun 11, 2019
2,436
759
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Ok, but what about this?

1 Corinthians 11 King James Version (KJV)
1 Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.

2 Now I praise you, brethren, that ye remember me in all things, and keep the ordinances, as I delivered them to you.

The word ordinances means same thing as Law and this word is used in the Bible in reference to the Law of Moses.
In this passage Paul is telling the Corinthians to keep the laws he delivered to them.

What say u?
From my bible ouline


I would like to know why you think of the Laws Jesus gave us were not what Paul be referencing but the Law of Moses when it had been replaced by the New Covenant, after the crucifixion of Christ, His blood shed to bring it about? (Not to mention they were set up to be "under" till John the Baptist). Maybe I missed something in a previous conversation? I am just a little lost here as to what you are saying.

Matt 5:17-7:12 The Laws of the Kingdom
They fulfill the law and the prophets, They transcend the law of Moses, Excel traditions of the elders
21 The Law of Murder
27 The Law of Adultery
33 The Law of Perjury
38 The Law of Retaliation
43 The Law of Love

6:1-7 To Excel the Tradition of Elders
2 As to Almsgiving
5 As to Prayer
16 As to Fasting
19 As to Riches
25 As to Cares

Matthew 7:1 Judge not, that ye be not judged

Matthew 7:2 For with what judgment ye judge ye shall be judged and with what measure ye mete it shall be measured to you again.

Matthew 7:3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

Matthew 7:4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye and behold a beam is in thine own eye?

Matthew 7:5 Thou hypocrite first cast out the beam out of thine own eye and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

Matthew 7:6 Give not that which is holy unto the dogs neither cast ye your pearls before swine lest they trample them under their feet and turn again and rend you.


Matthew 7:7 Ask and it shall be given you seek, and ye shall find knock, and it shall be opened unto you

Matthew 7:8 For every one that asketh receiveth and he that seeketh findeth and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.

Matthew 7:9 Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone?

Matthew 7:10 Or if he ask a fish will he give him a serpent?

Matthew 7:11 If ye then being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?

Matthew 7:12 Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them for this is the law and the prophets.

Matthew 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat

Matthew 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Matthew 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

Matthew 7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?


Matthew 7:17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.

Matthew 7:18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

Matthew 7:19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down and cast into the fire.

Matthew 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Matthew 7:22 Many will say to me in that day Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

Matthew 7:23 And then will I profess unto them I never knew you depart from me ye that work iniquity
So many
 

RickStudies

Active member
Sep 10, 2019
782
222
43
From my bible ouline


I would like to know why you think of the Laws Jesus gave us were not what Paul be referencing but the Law of Moses when it had been replaced by the New Covenant, after the crucifixion of Christ, His blood shed to bring it about? (Not to mention they were set up to be "under" till John the Baptist). Maybe I missed something in a previous conversation? I am just a little lost here as to what you are saying.

Matt 5:17-7:12 The Laws of the Kingdom
They fulfill the law and the prophets, They transcend the law of Moses, Excel traditions of the elders
21 The Law of Murder
27 The Law of Adultery
33 The Law of Perjury
38 The Law of Retaliation
43 The Law of Love

6:1-7 To Excel the Tradition of Elders
2 As to Almsgiving
5 As to Prayer
16 As to Fasting
19 As to Riches
25 As to Cares

Matthew 7:1 Judge not, that ye be not judged

Matthew 7:2 For with what judgment ye judge ye shall be judged and with what measure ye mete it shall be measured to you again.

Matthew 7:3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

Matthew 7:4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye and behold a beam is in thine own eye?

Matthew 7:5 Thou hypocrite first cast out the beam out of thine own eye and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

Matthew 7:6 Give not that which is holy unto the dogs neither cast ye your pearls before swine lest they trample them under their feet and turn again and rend you.

Matthew 7:7 Ask and it shall be given you seek, and ye shall find knock, and it shall be opened unto you

Matthew 7:8 For every one that asketh receiveth and he that seeketh findeth and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.

Matthew 7:9 Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone?

Matthew 7:10 Or if he ask a fish will he give him a serpent?

Matthew 7:11 If ye then being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?

Matthew 7:12 Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them for this is the law and the prophets.

Matthew 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat

Matthew 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Matthew 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

Matthew 7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

Matthew 7:17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.

Matthew 7:18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

Matthew 7:19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down and cast into the fire.

Matthew 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Matthew 7:22 Many will say to me in that day Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

Matthew 7:23 And then will I profess unto them I never knew you depart from me ye that work iniquity
So many
I didn`t say they were Moses Law. I used the word "laws" because Paul calls them ordinances which means same thing. The documents were Paul`s orders for the Corinthian church. My point was that even under Grace there are laws. The Commandments of Jesus and the teachings of Paul, lot`s of it is straight out of the law. Paul quotes and teaches from the Torah dozens of times in the epistles. Jesus absolutely taught the law and obeying his commandments is obeying law of Moses.
 

DeighAnn

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
Jun 11, 2019
2,436
759
113
I didn`t say they were Moses Law. I used the word "laws" because Paul calls them ordinances which means same thing. The documents were Paul`s orders for the Corinthian church. My point was that even under Grace there are laws. The Commandments of Jesus and the teachings of Paul, lot`s of it is straight out of the law. Paul quotes and teaches from the Torah dozens of times in the epistles. Jesus absolutely taught the law and obeying his commandments is obeying law of Moses.
I knew I was reading something wrong. Thank you for the correction
 
Mar 14, 2011
65,387
11,861
113
Aww,

But it is.

Whoever does not obey every word, the punishment is death.

I also gave scripture to prove what I said.

Paul also called it the ministration of death.

So forgive me if I listen to God and not to you and another person who does not understand the law
Ricky laughed at this post.

think about it,

it means he thinks Moses and pauls words are lughable (since they said those words not me).

it just keeps getting worse for him.
 

lightbearer

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
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HBG. Pa. USA
Ricky laughed at this post.

think about it,

it means he thinks Moses and pauls words are lughable (since they said those words not me).

it just keeps getting worse for him.
No it’s your interpretation that he laughed at. But you knew that already but Couldn’t resist an opportunity to take a jab at somebody
 

RickStudies

Active member
Sep 10, 2019
782
222
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Necessary to meet the various needs of people; unnecessary to maintain salvation.
Ok, sounds like a nice deal. But explain how I can reconcile your opinion with this passage?


14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,

16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?

17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?

26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
 

Lightskin

Well-known member
Aug 16, 2019
2,051
2,518
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Ok, sounds like a nice deal. But explain how I can reconcile your opinion with this passage?


14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,

16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?

17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?

26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
I reconcile everything through John 3:16.
 

RickStudies

Active member
Sep 10, 2019
782
222
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I reconcile everything through John 3:16.
John 3:18 says believe on not in, two different things and your post is a serious cop out. I don`t blame you tho.

18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
3,591
744
113
Ok, sounds like a nice deal. But explain how I can reconcile your opinion with this passage?
[…]

21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
Do you believe Abraham's justification was in question in God's mind, in all of those intervening YEARS (between what Rom4:3 is referring to, and/to the time when he MANY YEARS LATER did the offering up of Isaac on the altar)??

[see also vv.11-12, for chronology-related]
 

RickStudies

Active member
Sep 10, 2019
782
222
43
Do you believe Abraham's justification was in question in God's mind, in all of those intervening YEARS (between what Rom4:3 is referring to, and/to the time when he MANY YEARS LATER did the offering up of Isaac on the altar)??

[see also vv.11-12, for chronology-related]
I never thought about it but I don`t see why it would. You tell me. I believe God knows in advance what people will choose to do.
 
Mar 14, 2011
65,387
11,861
113
No it’s your interpretation that he laughed at. But you knew that already but Couldn’t resist an opportunity to take a jab at somebody
What interpretation?

Moses said whoever does not obey every word will be punished by death

Paul re-iterated that, and called the ten commands the ministration of death

James confirmed it.

There is no interpretation to bother with, just take the men of God who spoke through inspiration of God at his word.
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
5,302
685
113
Ok, sounds like a nice deal. But explain how I can reconcile your opinion with this passage?


14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,

16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?

17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?

26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
Faith without works is like having a thoroughbred race horse and leaving it in the stable.
 
Mar 14, 2011
65,387
11,861
113
Ok, sounds like a nice deal. But explain how I can reconcile your opinion with this passage?


14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,

16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?

17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?

26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
See here you go again

The person you are referencing NEVER said it is ok to not do any works,

Your perception of people and what they say is seriously lacking my friend. Your accusations you sling out are ased on your own desires not the factual truth