Did Jesus ever tell us that we no longer need to keep the law of Moses?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

DeighAnn

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
Jun 11, 2019
2,436
759
113
I'm wondering about the idea of not eating scavenger animals based on the dietary laws. I believe chickens are a clean food, but I think they are scavengers, too. So what's happening?

"Chickens left to their own devices will just as happily nibble on grasses , weeds , herbs , flowers , grains, seeds, nuts, veggies, berries and fruit as they will gobble up all the bugs and insects, larvae, spiders, worms, grubs, and even small rodents, birds, snakes, lizards and frogs they can catch.
It's important to note that chickens will eat both "live" and dead meat. While some carnivores only eat fresh meat that they kill, and some like vultures, hyenas, and other scavengers mainly eat carrion, chickens will eat both."

https://www.fresheggsdaily.com/2017/11/chickens-are-omnivores-not-vegetarians.html?m=1


So for my own experiences, I used to eat mostly vegetarian. That was partly because if you don't cook meat, keeping the kitchen clean is a lot easier. but also I didn't like the general way that animals were treated in the meat industry.

But then about 8 years ago, I developed some kind of digestion issue. Many kinds of foods brought on tummy aches. One of the few foods that didn't cause any problems was beef.

Out of respect for the cow, which in part I see in the commandment about not muzzling an ox while it is to threshing, I often eat the fat along with the rest of the meat. I think that's probably contrary to the dietary laws, which talk about not eating the fatty portions.

But if I don't eat a good bit of the fat, it's hard to get enough calories throughout the day eating just the lean meat.

Did you want more details? :)
Yes, I already learned somethings, not just about you, but chicken too. I myself can't stand touching any raw meat, chicken and turkey being the worst but none of it is good, till it is cooked. But like to eat them. Not sure how I will be feeling about it the next time though, but come to think of it I haven't eaten hardly any since I saw some pictures, on this thread I think, of how they are raised all cooped up together. Definitely have been going organic on most everything lately.

I have always thought of the "not muzzling an ox" as if you work, you get paid so you best not pay your animals while they are working for you. God is so good.
The thing that got me about the dietary laws was the proof of God that I saw in them. There was no science, microscopes, encyclopedias, yet all laid out perfectly for anyone to see the parted hoof and chewing the cud from those that don't and fish with scales etc. and I thought "Who but God would have ever have been able to separate them so perfectly, by ways I would never have thought to look for" and to this day have never heard disputed. WOW.
Like I said, I don't judge who eats what, I have my own issues but when someone gets sick and starts praying to be healed, I do tell them not to bother unless you are going to follow the suggestions He gave. I do think of "feeding" my body with what God said do, and don't because He said dont and who would know better than Him??? And I need all the help I can get.

So, If you got more, I am listening. I like knowledge, especially when it has to do with God. Thank you what you shared so far. Have a good day.
 

NayborBear

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
hello, welcome to CC

i'm curious how brand new members arrive to the site, skip all introductions, go directly to a large thread already in progress in the BDF, and proceed to 'teach' everyone involved.

how did you land here, if you don't mind telling me?
It would "seem", to me anyway PH?
That this thread is "pricking hearts, and minds", to such a degree, to "readers?"
That they can't help themselves from "jumping in with both feet", in contributing.
To an apparent point of "by passing" "traditional protocols!" :p

Come to think of it? I don't think I ever posted in the "introductory thread" myself.

Like on radio talk shows. "Long time listener." "First time caller." ;)

Anyways!
Welcome!
 
Sep 15, 2019
44
19
8
Nope, he is not contradicting them at all, thats your view
I'm confused. How is this not a contradiction?
Moses says
See, I have set before you this day life and good, and death and evil.
Isaiah says Woe to them that calls good evil, and evil good [...] To the law and to the testimony, if they [for example Paul] do not speak according to this Word, there is no light in them.
Paul says NO! It is erroneous to regard what Moses wrote. It is sin and death written on stone.
So, because I see a contradiction, my view is wrong??

And yet you're quoting him where he did claim the definition of morality (the law) is the ministry of death.
ministry of death, written and engraved on stones
So, hence my question. But perhaps I must make it more explicit. Can you explain to me, in detail, how "Ye shall have no other gods before me," is a ministry of death? Because, if that is the ministry of death, then, by definition, the ministry of life would be indifference to having other gods, least we be accursed.
I fail to see how regarding objective moral values and duties to be a ministry of death. It's either the interpretation of Paul that is wrong, or Paul is wrong. I prefer the former for the sake of congruency with the Word of God.
 
Mar 14, 2011
66,744
12,836
113
I fail to see how this is an issue? I already said that I can understand how doing evil is to be accursed... I merely took issue with a statement you made.

Okay, just using love, only love. Can you show me how it is evil for a man having sex with another man?
Well lets see

1. Did you love the lord your god? Nope
2. Did you love that other man (agape love) nope (god calls any relationship same sex as self love not others love)
3. Did you love self? (Carnally minded?) Yes


So you broke the law of love,
Simple,,

Now tell me, you have two people

One of them is known for giving to charity and the church, and they make sure everyone knows it, and he is very proud of his “loving others”

The other also gives much to charity and the church, but no one really knows it, he does it because he loves god and loves to bive out of what god blessed him with,

Both have obeyed the letter of the law

Yet are both righteous? And why?
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
5,399
691
113
Vis a vis, "we can worship our Ba'als and Ashera, because we also make offerings at the temple"

I agree with your understanding here 100%. That's why He called their offerings vain, because their hearts were false and adulterous.

Something you should know about PS, he believes Moses was serving Ba'al, not God, and that much of the law in the OT, and the actions of Joshua in entering into the promised land & driving out / putting the inhabitants to the sword, were the evil, corrupt result of that. He doesn't think that YHVH is I AM - but that I AM is the true God, and YHVH is a false Ba'al.

@PS please correct me if I'm misrepresenting your position here..
That is correct for most of the Israelites, the exclusion would be Isaiah and the other prophets who told them the same as I am. They were so evil they cut Isaiah in half with a saw while he was still alive. That is the work of an evil people who were following a false god. Remember there were only two who entered the Promised Land, and Moses was not among them.
 
Mar 14, 2011
66,744
12,836
113
This ipad is not fomatting right so i am reposting ,
Okay, but then Paul is contradicting the law of the prophets...

Paul never said this, this is your viewl



Also, can you explain to me why you interpret Paul to mean that the definition of good and evil is sin and death? Also, if I write "Do not murder," on stone, why is that problematic?

I think your interpretations are erroneous, not Paul.
Paul never said that,

It is obvious you can not comprehend what i am saying this is now twice you have misjudged my words

As for what paul said

Corinthians 3:7
But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away,

This is the ten commands, one of which is thou shalt not kill and paul calld them the ministey of death


Any questions?
 
Sep 15, 2019
44
19
8
Well lets see

1. Did you love the lord your god? Nope
2. Did you love that other man (agape love) nope (god calls any relationship same sex as self love not others love)
3. Did you love self? (Carnally minded?) Yes


So you broke the law of love,
Simple,,

Now tell me, you have two people

One of them is known for giving to charity and the church, and they make sure everyone knows it, and he is very proud of his “loving others”

The other also gives much to charity and the church, but no one really knows it, he does it because he loves god and loves to bive out of what god blessed him with,

Both have obeyed the letter of the law

Yet are both righteous? And why?
Here's how I answer those three questions using only love.
1. Yes
2. Yes
3. Yes

Here's how I answer those three questions using love based on God's objective moral standard.
1. No.
2. No.
3. No.
 
Mar 14, 2011
66,744
12,836
113
I'm confused. How is this not a contradiction?




So, because I see a contradiction, my view is wrong??
Paul,did not call good evil and evil good now did he?

So paul was wrong?

Why did he call them the ministey of death?



And yet you're quoting him where he did claim the definition of morality (the law) is the ministry of death.
Where did i suggest this?

There is no need to continue if all your gonna do is misquote or misrepresent what i am saying now is there


So, hence my question. But perhaps I must make it more explicit. Can you explain to me, in detail, how "Ye shall have no other gods before me," is a ministry of death? Because, if that is the ministry of death, then, by definition, the ministry of life would be indifference to having other gods, least we be accursed.
I fail to see how regarding objective moral values and duties to be a ministry of death. It's either the interpretation of Paul that is wrong, or Paul is wrong. I prefer the former for the sake of congruency with the Word of God.
How?

Because if you break this law, the penatly is death

Because the law required perfection, and you failed to keep it (cursed is the one who does not obey all)

All it takes is one sin and your guilty of the whole law (James)

And there is a problem the laws answer to the solution is levitical sacrifice, which as hebrews said can never take away sin, somthe law has no solution, only death

So you see, thats the purpose of the law, to PROVE YOUR GUILT

And all this should lead to christ
 

RickStudies

Active member
Sep 10, 2019
782
222
43
Sure, it is our helplessness to do doing evil that results in death, that is, to break the law of God/good and life.
That`s close but check this out. Romans 7

22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.


Verse 22 law of God is a delight. Verse 23 another law, a second law, a different law Paul calls the Law of sin.

He goes on to describe the law of sin in terms that identify it as the desires of the flesh.

Law of sin = Flesh nature seeking to enslave you to sin
The death = the sin itself

Awesome truth!
 
Mar 14, 2011
66,744
12,836
113
Do you know what Paul is refering to when he says "law of sin and death" ?
Yes

The law which proves sin

The law which has the penalty of all law breakers of death

While many laws of many nations are used for this purpose, only one law can condemn us eternally,
 
Mar 14, 2011
66,744
12,836
113
Here's how I answer those three questions using only love.
1. Yes
2. Yes
3. Yes

Here's how I answer those three questions using love based on God's objective moral standard.
1. No.
2. No.
3. No.
Dude, gods standard is the standard all men are held to.

So thanks, you just proved my point

If you think people will get an out, because they commited a sin based on mans objective view you are mistaken, god has made it clear in his word it is his standard with which he judges.
 
Mar 14, 2011
66,744
12,836
113
Here's how I answer those three questions using only love.
1. Yes
2. Yes
3. Yes

Here's how I answer those three questions using love based on God's objective moral standard.
1. No.
2. No.
3. No.
Ps, why did you fail to answer the second part of my response? Was the question to hard?
 
Mar 14, 2011
66,744
12,836
113
That`s close but check this out. Romans 7

22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.


Verse 22 law of God is a delight. Verse 23 another law, a second law, a different law Paul calls the Law of sin.

He goes on to describe the law of sin in terms that identify it as the desires of the flesh.

Law of sin = Flesh nature seeking to enslave you to sin
The death = the sin itself

Awesome truth!
Only mosaic law can condemn you eternally
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
8,026
893
113
What was it Jesus told Nicodemus?
What's "flesh" is flesh!
What's "spirit" is spirit!

My light is "shining!"
Perhaps, you are not a man, eh?
I'm definitely a male human adult. other people can decide whether that makes me a man or not. :D

While talking to Nicodemus, Jesus says

John 3: 20. For everyone who does evil hates the light, and doesn't come to the light, lest his works would be exposed. 21. But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his works may be revealed, that they have been done in God.

What I'm saying is, come into the light, let your works be exposed.

Then others can see that they have been done in God, if indeed they have been.
 

FollowtheShepherd

Well-known member
Sep 15, 2019
794
312
63
Welcome to Christian Chat, FS!

Correct, but we often forget that after the resurrection Jesus used Paul to speak to us.

Galatians 1:11

11 I want you to know, brothers and sisters, that the gospel I preached is not of human origin. 12 I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it; rather, I received it by revelation from Jesus Christ.

During His earthly ministry Jesus taught obedience to the Law of Moses because this law was still in force (Jesus had not yet died). The transition from the Old Covenant to the New Covenant didn't happen overnight. Paul was called some 3 years after the crucifixion and the Council of Jerusalem (which released Christians from the Law) took place roughly 15 years into the New Era.
That you for the greeting,

Well the issue I have is why would Jesus tell us this if His words while in the flesh were to be discarded?

Matt 24: 35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away.

Yet Im being told that His words did pass.

John 14:John 14:23-26, " 23 Jesus answered him, “If anyone loves me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. 24 Whoever does not love me does not keep my words. And the word that you hear is not mine but the Father's who sent me. 25 “These things I have spoken to you while I am still with you. 26 But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you.

and Im being told that the SPirit discards His words pre-cross when Jesus says the eaxact oppisite.

As I just said Jesus taught obedience to the Law, and now let's see what Paul wrote:

2 Mark my words! I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all.

3 Again I declare to every man who lets himself be circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole law.

4 You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.

See? Is Paul contradicting Jesus? Not at all. Paul was a slave of Christ and he was only relaying a message received from his Master. Did Jesus then contradict Himself? No, this is not a contradiction; it is a new law. I don't think a new law contradicts a previous one; a new law replaces an old one.
But did not Paul teach to establish/uphold the law?

Rom 3: 31 Do we then overthrow the law by this faith? By no means! On the contrary, we uphold the law.

Rom 7: 25 Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself serve the law of God with my mind, but with my flesh I serve the law of sin.

BUt my main issue is that ppl are saying not to follow Jesus words pre-cross, and Jesus Himself said these words will never pass away and to follow them.
 
Mar 14, 2011
66,744
12,836
113
Poor rick, he disagrees with moses paul and james that says if we break even on command we are cursed (death)

His red x’s are telling