Did Jesus ever tell us that we no longer need to keep the law of Moses?

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Peoples eternity is at stake, so yes, I am going to tell it how it is.

I am not like the movement that everyone is saved. Lets all be happy people. Thats a lie.

I am sorry, But as scrtipture says, the truth hurts, it cuts deep. And I am not ashamed of it.
The sharp words I am speaking of are not the words of scripture you are quoting, they are your words.

Please consider your words and if you are angry when you are writing, consider whether your anger is dominating your dictation. Let your words be true, but smooth and tempered.
 

lightbearer

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
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Peoples eternity is at stake, so yes, I am going to tell it how it is.

No. It is how you see it.
The thing is we don't have to be condemning when sharing HIS Spirit or what we perceive to be from HIS Spirit. The Truth in relation to doctrine should be shared in love. If you share x and I share y in rebuttal that is enough without making pointed comments about one another.
 

lightbearer

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
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Now, have you got any scriptures that say God imparts this necessary faith on the unbeliever?
For Christ ( the word In our heart and mouth) is the end of the law ( the word, the Book of the Law, that on parchment and tables of stone) for righteousness to every one that believeth. For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them. But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ (the word) down from above: ) Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ (the word) again from the dead.) But what saith it? The word (Christ) is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: THAT IS THE WORD OF FAITH which we preach; Christ in you the HOPE OF GLORY. For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

(Rom 10:4-8; Col 1:27; Heb 8:10-12 KJV)
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
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Good point, many of the Mitzvot laws were written down from observations of men who had surrendered to God and had become Loving dedicated to God and their fellow man and so they, the religious leaders, thinking so much of their good works "legislated" their works into what became the Mitzvot! Not the right way to go about it!

Just like the quote where John Adams said our Constitutional form of a Republic govornment can only be sustained by God fearing Christian people whose hearts are dominated by the love of God and Neighbor! Otherwise, like the Mitzvot, we have to legislate our people into morality which is as we are seeing; impossible.
I believe the Mitzvot Laws were given to the Jews only, and that Christian's of all backgrounds need to convert to the teaching and the laws of Christ. I am sorry if this conflicts with your view.

As LB said "For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth." (Rom 10:4)
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
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For Christ ( the word In our heart and mouth) is the end of the law ( the word, the Book of the Law, that on parchment and tables of stone) for righteousness to every one that believeth. For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them. But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ (the word) down from above: ) Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ (the word) again from the dead.) But what saith it? The word (Christ) is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: THAT IS THE WORD OF FAITH which we preach; Christ in you the HOPE OF GLORY. For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

(Rom 10:4-8; Col 1:27; Heb 8:10-12 KJV)
You seem to be saying God gives certain people faith, whereas scripture tells us it is OUR faith that saves us.
 

NayborBear

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
Good point, many of the Mitzvot laws were written down from observations of men who had surrendered to God and had become Loving dedicated to God and their fellow man and so they, the religious leaders, thinking so much of their good works "legislated" their works into what became the Mitzvot! Not the right way to go about it!

Just like the quote where John Adams said our Constitutional form of a Republic govornment can only be sustained by God fearing Christian people whose hearts are dominated by the love of God and Neighbor! Otherwise, like the Mitzvot, we have to legislate our people into morality which is as we are seeing; impossible.
T'was impossible for Israel, as it had become! Just as it is impossible for these "several states", as IT IS become!

IOW? Just as true now? As it was then!

Psalm 110
The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.

Question: WHERE are THESE people!

"A time for peace! A time to make WAR!

Turn! Turn! TURN! (y)(y)
 
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I believe the Mitzvot Laws were given to the Jews only, and that Christian's of all backgrounds need to convert to the teaching and the laws of Christ. I am sorry if this conflicts with your view.

As LB said "For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth." (Rom 10:4)
I don't want to miss the larger point. THE LAW was brutish, forceful, insistent when it was on paper as a legislative edict. BUT, when the EXACT same LAW is written on a mans heart by God he can recite them word for word from a heart reformed from its once hardened carnality to one that literally is wooed by the Law as something blessed and good. Why? because he now lives and moves and has his being;

Act 17:27-29 KJV That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us: (28) For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring. (29) Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.
 
May 1, 2019
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You seem to be saying God gives certain people faith, whereas scripture tells us it is OUR faith that saves us.

PS Our salvation is a process. First we are saved through the forgiveness of sin, than as time progresses God through His graciousness saves us incrementally from our sin nature by giving us a new heart to love righteousness. So don't confuse the point that there is the instant salvation of our sins as we repent and accept the redeeming work of Jesus, and the daily work of redeeming us from our old sinful nature.
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
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I don't want to miss the larger point. THE LAW was brutish, forceful, insistent when it was on paper as a legislative edict. BUT, when the EXACT same LAW is written on a mans heart by God he can recite them word for word from a heart reformed from its once hardened carnality to one that literally is wooed by the Law as something blessed and good. Why? because he now lives and moves and has his being;

Act 17:27-29 KJV That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us: (28) For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring. (29) Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.
Not disputing Acts 17 at all, or any scripture. Just disputing the need for Old Testament Law under our new High Priest.

(Dog walking time)
 
May 1, 2019
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Not disputing Acts 17 at all, or any scripture. Just disputing the need for Old Testament Law under our new High Priest.

(Dog walking time)
Had to walk mine earlier! :) HOT here this week. How far do you like to walk them? I have one that's a new pup 6 months and if I don't walk her her excess energy is focused on mischief! Yikes!

From the carnal perspective the Law is horrible, but once the law has been written on your heart it's lovely. When the Holy Spirit wooes your heart the Law will become second nature. You hardly have to read it, but if you do you will recognize the beauty of it.

If you force in on a young Christian it might choke them and become too mechanical and legalistic. Sadly, many people who have been "christians" for some time have resisted the work of the Holy Spirit and they are still not in a place where they see any beauty in the Law. The Law is only good when the Holy Spirit has regenerated the person to the point where The Law has been put within their heart, otherwise it is destructive, condemning. After all if you hear a commandment that is good and you are still carnal that command in condemning because you do not yet have the means to keep it. But, if you hear a commandment that is good and you are spiritual/regenerated/a new man then you have the means (thanks to Gods Grace) to keep the law so then it is good.
 

DeighAnn

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
Jun 11, 2019
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Hebrews 5:7 Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared;
Hebrews 5:8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
Hebrews 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
Hebrews 5:10 Called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec.
Hebrews 5:11 Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing.
Hebrews 5:12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.
Hebrews 5:13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.
Hebrews 5:14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.
Hebrews 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
Hebrews 6:2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
Hebrews 6:3 And this will we do, if God permit.
Hebrews 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
Hebrews 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
Hebrews 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
It appears that you are using a King James version (KJV) of the Bible. Given your questions, you might find a modern translation such as the NIV easier to understand.

To your questions...

Matthew 5:6 Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled. WHAT DOES THIS MEAN? HOW DO WE ATTAIN RIGHTEOUSNESS, NOT FOR SALVATION, BUT TO BE BLESSED?
Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, those whose deepest desire is to be righteous in God's sight. In turn, those who are righteous in God's sight are saved. We attain it either by following the Law perfectly which nobody is able to do, or by trusting in the Person and finished work of Jesus Christ.

Matthew 5:16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven. WHAT ARE THE GOOD WORKS that men may see?
The good works we are to do are to believe in the One He has sent (John 6:29) and to do the works which He prepared in advance for us to do (Ephesians 2:10). The latter is different for each believer, and you will need to as the Father what His will for you is.

Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. HOW WAS THE LAW NOT DESTROYED?
That's an awkwardly-worded question, and is difficult to answer as asked. The Law was fulfilled in Christ; it was not destroyed in Christ.

Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. WHAT DOES IT MEAN IN NO WISE PASS?
Here's where a modern translation makes it clear: For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. (NIV)

Matthew 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. WHAT IS A LEAST COMMANDMENT? WHAT IS A MOST COMMANDMENT?
HOW DO WE MAKE SURE OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS EXCEEDS THE SCRIBES?

The least commandment is the one with the least importance and impact. The "most" (a better word would be "greatest") is identified by Jesus in Matthew 22:37.
The Pharisees and scribes followed the Law (as they understood it) to the letter, and were considered the most righteous in Jewish society. Jesus was making clear that even their "righteousness" fell far short of God's standard, which is perfection. Only by believing in Jesus for salvation can we ensure that our righteousness (actually, that of Jesus imparted to us) exceeds that of the scribes.

Did Jesus come to free us from sin or the Law?
Both.
It appears that you are using a King James version (KJV) of the Bible. Given your questions, you might find a modern translation such as the NIV easier to understand.

To your questions...

Matthew 5:6 Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled. WHAT DOES THIS MEAN? HOW DO WE ATTAIN RIGHTEOUSNESS, NOT FOR SALVATION, BUT TO BE BLESSED?
Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, those whose deepest desire is to be righteous in God's sight. In turn, those who are righteous in God's sight are saved. We attain it either by following the Law perfectly which nobody is able to do, or by trusting in the Person and finished work of Jesus Christ.

Matthew 5:16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven. WHAT ARE THE GOOD WORKS that men may see?
The good works we are to do are to believe in the One He has sent (John 6:29) and to do the works which He prepared in advance for us to do (Ephesians 2:10). The latter is different for each believer, and you will need to as the Father what His will for you is.

Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. HOW WAS THE LAW NOT DESTROYED?
That's an awkwardly-worded question, and is difficult to answer as asked. The Law was fulfilled in Christ; it was not destroyed in Christ.

Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. WHAT DOES IT MEAN IN NO WISE PASS?
Here's where a modern translation makes it clear: For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. (NIV)

Matthew 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. WHAT IS A LEAST COMMANDMENT? WHAT IS A MOST COMMANDMENT?
HOW DO WE MAKE SURE OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS EXCEEDS THE SCRIBES?

The least commandment is the one with the least importance and impact. The "most" (a better word would be "greatest") is identified by Jesus in Matthew 22:37.
The Pharisees and scribes followed the Law (as they understood it) to the letter, and were considered the most righteous in Jewish society. Jesus was making clear that even their "righteousness" fell far short of God's standard, which is perfection. Only by believing in Jesus for salvation can we ensure that our righteousness (actually, that of Jesus imparted to us) exceeds that of the scribes.

Did Jesus come to free us from sin or the Law?
Both.
Thank you for answering the questions I posed to "Grandpa" as apparently he will/can not because as you have so clearly pointed out, the law is still with us, and works are given to all of us. The Law has not been destroyed. As Jesus came to fulfill it and to be an example for our "walk," we also are to do our best to emulate Him therefore strive to follow all He did not fulfill but left intact.

Jesus came to free us from sin, fulfill the Law.

I hope the next time you address me it is not with another veiled "friendly" suggestion to get a bible I could understand. The wisdom and knowledge you should be receiving from the Word should have quickly lead you to the conclusion, (as should the previous posts) that the questions were meant to illicit an internal dialogue to the person I posed them to, that may have lead to some prayerful insight.

If you understand the devil at all, you would also realize that every time "man" revises the WORD of GOD (the only way to keep it under patent and keep making money on it) there sits the devil, not as if he wasn't there for the KJV with the word "pascha" being translated easter, the High Holy day of Christianity changed to that of "Ishtar" the fertility goddess but I am sure you read the preface to the 1611 where the translators told us straight up they made mistakes.
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. We know Jesus fulfilled it, but it would seem

Though it does not work better for me that way, but I am glad it does for you! As of yet I have not been graced with the holy Spirit giving me the Spiritual truth of muzzling the ox. I see it as "if you hire someone to work, don't deny them pay" and possibly have the spiritual meaning of "if God has called you and you do your job He will recompense", or it could mean "if God has called you and has gifted you with salvation through the blood, you best be doing the work with the gifts he has graced you with". But I have not been personally lead.
I am starting to think that it means all 3 (or more?) things, all truth, to 3? different people at the same time, and still a couple months down the road, the truth of the meanings can switch amongst them, just depending on the WILL of GOD.

But as the holy Spirit works in my life, I definitely don't get it "all" at once. More like here a little there a little.
I don't understand the first part of your post, the part that ends with the word "seem". Was it supposed to continue on?

which part of my post were you referring to when you said it does not work better for you? The idea that 1st John 3:4 is better rendered as
sin is being without law?
 
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Hebrews 5:7 Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared;
Hebrews 5:8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
Hebrews 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
Hebrews 5:10 Called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec.
Hebrews 5:11 Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing.
Hebrews 5:12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.
Hebrews 5:13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.
Hebrews 5:14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.
Hebrews 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
Hebrews 6:2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
Hebrews 6:3 And this will we do, if God permit.
Hebrews 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
Hebrews 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
Hebrews 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.


Thank you for answering the questions I posed to "Grandpa" as apparently he will/can not because as you have so clearly pointed out, the law is still with us, and works are given to all of us. The Law has not been destroyed. As Jesus came to fulfill it and to be an example for our "walk," we also are to do our best to emulate Him therefore strive to follow all He did not fulfill but left intact.

Jesus came to free us from sin, fulfill the Law.

I hope the next time you address me it is not with another veiled "friendly" suggestion to get a bible I could understand. The wisdom and knowledge you should be receiving from the Word should have quickly lead you to the conclusion, (as should the previous posts) that the questions were meant to illicit an internal dialogue to the person I posed them to, that may have lead to some prayerful insight.

If you understand the devil at all, you would also realize that every time "man" revises the WORD of GOD (the only way to keep it under patent and keep making money on it) there sits the devil, not as if he wasn't there for the KJV with the word "pascha" being translated easter, the High Holy day of Christianity changed to that of "Ishtar" the fertility goddess but I am sure you read the preface to the 1611 where the translators told us straight up they made mistakes.

Greetings DeighAnn,

Lovely verses, So well put :)

Pro 25:11 KJV A word fitly spoken is like apples of gold in pictures of silver.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
17,840
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Thank you for answering the questions I posed to "Grandpa" as apparently he will/can not because as you have so clearly pointed out, the law is still with us, and works are given to all of us. The Law has not been destroyed. As Jesus came to fulfill it and to be an example for our "walk," we also are to do our best to emulate Him therefore strive to follow all He did not fulfill but left intact.

Jesus came to free us from sin, fulfill the Law.

I hope the next time you address me it is not with another veiled "friendly" suggestion to get a bible I could understand. The wisdom and knowledge you should be receiving from the Word should have quickly lead you to the conclusion, (as should the previous posts) that the questions were meant to illicit an internal dialogue to the person I posed them to, that may have lead to some prayerful insight.

If you understand the devil at all, you would also realize that every time "man" revises the WORD of GOD (the only way to keep it under patent and keep making money on it) there sits the devil, not as if he wasn't there for the KJV with the word "pascha" being translated easter, the High Holy day of Christianity changed to that of "Ishtar" the fertility goddess but I am sure you read the preface to the 1611 where the translators told us straight up they made mistakes.
Wow... you have the knack for being ungracious.

Previously you ripped into me for not answering your questions. Now, when I respond to a post in which you didn't quote anyone, you rip into me again.

I don't see the need to respond to you further until and unless you learn some grace.

And by the way, the word is "elicit".
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
10,729
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How are you bearing any fruit,(ACTION ON YOUR PART) if all you do is say "He does it all"?
I don't think you quite understand the concept of bearing fruit.

A person, or plant, doesn't bear fruit because they work really hard at it. Its not because they are striving that they bear fruit.

They bear fruit because they are in good soil and get good light and nourishment.

Do your really believe those WHO were under the law couldn't do any of it?
Yes. That is what I believe.

Everyone who has ever tried has not been able. Because carnal people think they can follow a spiritual law.

They think they perfectly understand the carnal aspect of the law and they think that encompasses the spiritual aspect as well. They don't realize they have no spiritual understanding.

You think God gave laws that are impossible to follow?
What is impossible with men is possible with God.

Yes. The 10 commandments are impossible for men to follow according to Gods Spiritual Requirement.

No, the problem was it had to be done 100%. 99.9% and you missed the mark. Jesus allowed us to miss the mark, and still make it, NOT to quit trying completely because it couldn't be done perfect.
The Lord Jesus gave us rest from our work at the law because our work at the law was designed to bring us to Him in the first place and nothing else.

It is the Lord Jesus Christ that perfects us. It is the Lord Jesus Christ that produces the spiritual fruit in our lives.

No matter how hard you try or how obedient you think you are you cannot perfect yourself and you cannot produce spiritual fruit from your own will and strength.
Are you Gods servant or are you trying to make Him yours?
We are spiritual beggars at Gods Door. Everything we have and everything we are that is good comes from Him and not ourselves.

You have faith and live under Grace? Those are gifts from God also. What is it you give? What is it you do? He is looking for people who will be priests and reign with Him 1000 yrs.
I show people who the Lord Jesus Christ is and what He does for us.

I show people that the yoke they think they need to be under is the one the Lord Jesus Christ removes.

But like I said before, you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.
 

DeighAnn

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
Jun 11, 2019
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Wow... you have the knack for being ungracious.

Previously you ripped into me for not answering your questions. Now, when I respond to a post in which you didn't quote anyone, you rip into me again.

I don't see the need to respond to you further until and unless you learn some grace.

And by the way, the word is "elicit".
Thank you for the correction, and I apologize for the "didn't quote anyone", I am having a terrible time navigating around this site and figuring out how to send replies to the correct people. I will work on my "grace" and if you see an improvement in my responses down the road please resume communications with me. I should just stick to the blog as I am obviously not a good communicator. I apologize for "ripping" into you, I don't think it was my intention, though it may have been. IDK. I may be just tired of everyone telling me I need to go study and learn the Bible.
 

DeighAnn

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
Jun 11, 2019
2,436
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I don't think you quite understand the concept of bearing fruit.

A person, or plant, doesn't bear fruit because they work really hard at it. Its not because they are striving that they bear fruit.

They bear fruit because they are in good soil and get good light and nourishment.

Yes. That is what I believe.

Everyone who has ever tried has not been able. Because carnal people think they can follow a spiritual law.

They think they perfectly understand the carnal aspect of the law and they think that encompasses the spiritual aspect as well. They don't realize they have no spiritual understanding.

What is impossible with men is possible with God.

Yes. The 10 commandments are impossible for men to follow according to Gods Spiritual Requirement.

The Lord Jesus gave us rest from our work at the law because our work at the law was designed to bring us to Him in the first place and nothing else.

It is the Lord Jesus Christ that perfects us. It is the Lord Jesus Christ that produces the spiritual fruit in our lives.

No matter how hard you try or how obedient you think you are you cannot perfect yourself and you cannot produce spiritual fruit from your own will and strength.

We are spiritual beggars at Gods Door. Everything we have and everything we are that is good comes from Him and not ourselves.


I show people who the Lord Jesus Christ is and what He does for us.

I show people that the yoke they think they need to be under is the one the Lord Jesus Christ removes.

But like I said before, you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.
Yes, I believe Jesus frees us from being enslaved by the sin of the flesh. We take Jesus, who fulfilled the law, into our lives which lightens the bondage of our flesh to sin. Those laws now written within upon our hearts, lifting and empowering our Spirit up, to take charge and command of our flesh and keep us on the right path, the straight and narrow one. Yet the flesh is a powerful foe to the Spirit, and all of us at some point succumb to it, and once again sin against the spirit, and through that sin, we lose that "clean state" that allows us to speak one on one with God. But we thank and praise the Lord for the gift given us at His defeat of death, and we repent and are washed clean in the Lambs blood to open back up those lines of communication again. Yes, Glory to God that we take Jesus, the fulfillment of Law into our selves. Oh death where is thy sting?
 
K

Karraster

Guest
I believe the Mitzvot Laws were given to the Jews only, and that Christian's of all backgrounds need to convert to the teaching and the laws of Christ. I am sorry if this conflicts with your view.

As LB said "For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth." (Rom 10:4)
To what "end" are you posting on this forum? What will be the "end" result? Could we see that the word "end" can mean objective or goal? Some translations renders the word "end" as "culmination". Context is king, Paul goes on to say God forbid the law is made void. This is so basic, yet we go round and round, ever learning but never finding the truth.
 
May 1, 2019
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To what "end" are you posting on this forum? What will be the "end" result? Could we see that the word "end" can mean objective or goal? Some translations renders the word "end" as "culmination". Context is king, Paul goes on to say God forbid the law is made void. This is so basic, yet we go round and round, ever learning but never finding the truth.

There was a time in all mens lives that the Law was death....When we recognized our guilt under the requirements of the Law we had to choose to rebel or in a Godly Sorrow repent which lead to Christ which gave us standing to approach The Heavenly Father. At that point we had many chouces to make concerning our carnal mind/heart. We could stand under grace and remain carnal or receive the guidance of the Holy Spirit concerning the matters of our heart. If we received the corrections our carnal hearts would begin to transform from a heart of stone to a heart of flesh or a hardened sinful heart to a fleshly soft spiritual thinking heart. These analogies were given to us to visualize Gods work in us as he wrote His laws on our hearts so that they became lovely, a new nature. For those who resist the inner working of the Holy Spirit they remain carnal and Gods Spirit will not suffer with them forever. Hence the analogy of a tree that does not bear fruit.

Think about Pauls words like this. If a man is under the Spirit He is now in harmony with the law rather than under the oppressive burden of the law which he once could not keep.

Gal 5:22-26 KJV But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, (23) Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. (24) And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. (25) If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. (26) Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.

Each and every fruit of the Spirit is the fulfillment of the law.
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
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To what "end" are you posting on this forum? What will be the "end" result? Could we see that the word "end" can mean objective or goal? Some translations renders the word "end" as "culmination". Context is king, Paul goes on to say God forbid the law is made void. This is so basic, yet we go round and round, ever learning but never finding the truth.
Abraham Justified by Faith
Rom 4:1 What, then, are we to say about Abraham, our human ancestor?
Rom 4:2 For if Abraham was justified by actions, he would have had something to boast about—though not before God.
Rom 4:3 For what does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness."
Rom 4:4 Now to someone who works, wages are not considered a gift but an obligation.
Rom 4:5 However, to someone who does not work, but simply believes in the one who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness.
Rom 4:6 Likewise, David also speaks of the blessedness of the person whom God regards as righteous apart from actions:
Rom 4:7 "How blessed are those whose iniquities are forgiven and whose sins are covered!
Rom 4:8 How blessed is the person whose sins the Lord will never charge against him!"
Rom 4:9 Now does this blessedness come to the circumcised alone, or also to the uncircumcised? For we say, "Abraham's faith was credited to him as righteousness."
Rom 4:10 Under what circumstances was it credited? Was he circumcised or uncircumcised? He had not yet been circumcised, but was uncircumcised.
Rom 4:11 Afterward he received the mark of circumcision as a seal of the righteousness that he had by faith while he was still uncircumcised. Therefore, he is the ancestor of all who believe while uncircumcised, in order that righteousness may be credited to them.
Rom 4:12 He is also the ancestor of the circumcised—those who are not only circumcised, but who also walk in the footsteps of the faith that our father Abraham had before he was circumcised.


The Promise Realized Through Faith
Rom 4:13 For the promise that he would inherit the world did not come to Abraham or to his descendants through the Law, but through the righteousness produced by faith.
Rom 4:14 For if those who were given the Law are the heirs, then faith is useless and the promise is worthless,
Rom 4:15 for the Law produces wrath. Now where there is no Law, neither can there be any violation of it.
Rom 4:16 Therefore, the promise is based on faith, so that it may be a matter of grace and may be guaranteed for all of Abraham's descendants—not only for those who were given the Law, but also for those who share the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all.

Rom 4:17 As it is written, "I have made you the father of many nations." Abraham acted in faith when he stood in the presence of God, who gives life to the dead and calls into existence things that don't yet exist.