Did Jesus ever tell us that we no longer need to keep the law of Moses?

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DeighAnn

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
Jun 11, 2019
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I am very confused. Did Jesus say "Not that that goes in defiles, but that that comes out" Or food doesn't defile, but words do.? Because food goes in and comes out (which supports flesh but not spirit) but words that come out come from the heart (telling everyone what spirit you have)
 

FollowtheShepherd

Well-known member
Sep 15, 2019
794
312
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I am still lost here. Could you explain it again. I am sorry. If you have time.
In 49ad Paul wrote the letter to the Galatians where he said no circumcision, the Jerusalem council in Acts 15 happened in 50ad. In Acts 16 timothy circumcision happened chronologically after the Jerusalem council in ACcts 15.

49ad Paul says no circumcision sometime AFTER 50ad Paul circumcises Timothy.

So at least a year after Paul said no circumcision, Paul himself circumcised TImothy.
 

DeighAnn

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
Jun 11, 2019
2,436
760
113
In 49ad Paul wrote the letter to the Galatians where he said no circumcision, the Jerusalem council in Acts 15 happened in 50ad. In Acts 16 timothy circumcision happened chronologically after the Jerusalem council in ACcts 15.

49ad Paul says no circumcision sometime AFTER 50ad Paul circumcises Timothy.

So at least a year after Paul said no circumcision, Paul himself circumcised TImothy.
OK now I am following your line of thought. I have to go study and will be back hopefully in the morning or maybe the middle of the night. THANK You for your time and patience and I will let you know.
 

FollowtheShepherd

Well-known member
Sep 15, 2019
794
312
63
I am very confused. Did Jesus say "Not that that goes in defiles, but that that comes out" Or food doesn't defile, but words do.? Because food goes in and comes out (which supports flesh but not spirit) but words that come out come from the heart (telling everyone what spirit you have)
Well think about it, actions can defile not just words. Murder can defile, people doing satanic rituals can defile, etc.

The topic was a pharisee hand washing ritual, the pharisees said those who don't do their man made ritual were defiled. Jesus was saying it is nonsense, defilement comes from within. From hate, rebellion, lust, theft, slander, false witness, etc.


Jesus was explains how their man made rules were powerless and false.

So every miracle Jesus ever did, He broke a pharisee law in the process, and did it deliberately.
 

FollowtheShepherd

Well-known member
Sep 15, 2019
794
312
63
OK now I am following your line of thought. I have to go study and will be back hopefully in the morning or maybe the middle of the night. THANK You for your time and patience and I will let you know.
May God guide you!

Psalms 18:30-31, " 30 This God—his way is perfect; the word of the LORD proves true; he is a shield for all those who take refuge in him. 31 For who is God, but the LORD? And who is a rock, except our God?—
 

DeighAnn

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
Jun 11, 2019
2,436
760
113
May God guide you!

Psalms 18:30-31, " 30 This God—his way is perfect; the word of the LORD proves true; he is a shield for all those who take refuge in him. 31 For who is God, but the LORD? And who is a rock, except our God?—
Hello and Good Middle of the night, no sleep till this gets done apparently.

My starting and ending position on the Bible is" it is the perfect Word of God" and all must conform to that. I do not believe Paul was self appointed. I believe he was struck down. I believe he teaches on 3 levels and that is why his writing is hard to understand, for all three levels. Peter giving him credentials also, is good enough for me.

I can only tell you "the most fitting" explanation to me, because I don't really feel convicted or "led" anywhere on this subject right now but Paul say

1 Corinthians 9:19 For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more.
1 Corinthians 9:20 And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;
1 Corinthians 9:21 To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.
1 Corinthians 9:22 To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weakI am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.

I think it speaks to the times. Titus, not going to be on the road with him, Tim going with him, and to places heavy in persecution from the Jews. Thank you for pointing me in this direction, I had never thought about it before.

Matt 15, we are going to have to have different thoughts about this chapter for right now. I have gone over and over it and I see it as I wrote it. I do not see it as a "hand washing" the chapter. I see it as traditions of man "pure and simple" ( hand wash) and "traditions of man making void the word of God" (corbin) and when turning to the multitude telling them "defiling is done from what comes out, not what goes in". (physical vs spiritual) and backing up what Paul said.

I hope to now go back to sleep. It will stay in the back of my head till the day God needs me to use it or whatever else. Good talking with you and once again thank you. I do like searching out new stuff so much. You know, here a little there a little....Good night again.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Because God loves us.. He knew that sending the spirit to lead and guide and comfort us would do what the law alone could not. He wanted us to change our inner man out of love for Him, not because we would "win salvation" for physically being able to do it right. Gods Kingdom will be a righteous kingdom. It can be no other because that is who He is. He has a right way and a wrong way. I am hoping to be as little as possible a contributor to the humiliations of Christ. So I strive to "do it His way" reward or not. It isn't about what He can do for me. He has already done enough. The least I can do is all I can.

God gives to each in measure. It goes back to" the talents". If He gives a little and you do nothing with it, ok, you are saved. Rest away. You have attained all you are looking for, but He gives you no more. If He gives you little and you do something with it He gives more. To those who live their lives loving Him with all their heart, and do His works He takes from those who are happy with "being" saved and gives to those who are "working towards being Priest" or what ever He needs.

If we choose HIS love, His ways above the ways of the world, while we are free to do whatever we want, what does that tell Him? People seem to think there will be no society in Spiritual bodies. We will be who we are now, just in a different "place". But when you study the past, what you find there, is Satan going from a prince to a king. He tells us there are vessels of Gold and silver and wood, some to honor, some to dishonor. I don't know how that can't be any clearer.

Being "saved" just isn't enough for me. When I get back to God I want to have spent my time here learning all there is to know about Him. I learn that through His word. It tells me all His emotions, good and severe. What He loves and what He hates. I know that my works do follow me, is all I can take with me, and they make up the linen of the clothes I will wear. To be a priest is to know all of Gods Ways not just the accepting of the gifts He has bestowed upon me. My life here is truly spent for what I can take with me. I miss Him. Always have, and will, until I return.
You missed the point i was trying to make

if they could keep the law, then they did not need saved

if they did not need saved, christ did not have to come


christ had to come because they, we, no one can keep the law. If we could we could save ourselves
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
...but God did say, ‘You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.’” “You will not surely die,” the serpent said to the woman. “For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.” Genesis 3:3-5

The same things are what the devil is using to deceive God's creation. The devil doesn't want us to follow God's commandments and would twist His words to mean otherwise.

God said, "you would surely die"

The serpent said, "you will not surely die"

Then God gave His laws and commandments to His people but they were deceived and were led by the devil to disobey God.

Then God sent His only begotten Son to save His people from the coming wrath of God.

What do you think is the devil's deception in this last days?

"Do not listen to God, no one can keep His laws and commandments so why should you?"

"You will not surely die if you don't keep His laws and commandments"

Someone may ask, how is this possible?

And here's what the false prophets in these last days would say...

"Once saved, you are always saved."

At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, and MANY FALSE PROPHETS WILL APPEAR AND DECEIVE many people. Because of the increase of wickedness, the LOVE of most will grow cold, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved. Matthew 24:10-13

“Make a tree good and its fruit will be good, or make a tree bad and its fruit will be bad, for a tree is recognized by its fruit. You brood of vipers, how can you who are evil say anything good? For out of the overflow of the heart the mouth speaks. The good man brings good things out of the good stored up in him, and the evil man brings evil things out of the evil stored up in him. But I tell you that men will have to give account on the day of judgment for every careless word they have spoken. For by your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned.” Matthew 12:33-37

Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them. For it is shameful even to mention what the disobedient do in secret. Ephesians 5:11-12

The word/s of the Master is a law to His servants, written on their hearts.

Confess Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior and walk in Love.

God is good and His Love endures forever. Amen.
The devil wants you to think you can follow all of gods commands, so he can keep your eyes focused on self, and off others.

you bit hook line and sinker

one sin just one sin, you have a death penalty charged against you, how many sins have you commited? In the last year? How many death penalties do you have against you?

and you want the world to know you think you are rihteous?
 

DeighAnn

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
Jun 11, 2019
2,436
760
113
You missed the point i was trying to make

if they could keep the law, then they did not need saved

if they did not need saved, christ did not have to come

christ had to come because they, we, no one can keep the law. If we could we could save ourselves
I did understand the point you were trying to make. But the Word says differently, doesn't it? This is not my "opinion" these are verses from the Word. Are you telling me to disregard what is written by God and go with your explanation instead? It will never happen.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Have you ever heard why Jesus came only for the lost sheep of the house of Israel and why?
So there are some people who did not need jesus? Because they fulfilled the law by obeying every jot and tittle?
 

DeighAnn

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
Jun 11, 2019
2,436
760
113
The devil wants you to think you can follow all of gods commands, so he can keep your eyes focused on self, and off others.

you bit hook line and sinker

one sin just one sin, you have a death penalty charged against you, how many sins have you commited? In the last year? How many death penalties do you have against you?

and you want the world to know you think you are rihteous?
No, the devil wants you to take your mind off of the truth of the Word of God and obedience to that Word. Once again you quote the law of Moses, the law before the Cross. Why do you not speak of all the work Jesus did and the freedom from bondage to "being" perfect through repentance and forgiveness through the blood of the Lamb, to life, not death, the light yoke? Yes, the world should think we are righteous, not evil. When did being righteous become bad? Isn't it only considered bad in ONE way? Obedience to God is demanded by Him.
 

DeighAnn

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
Jun 11, 2019
2,436
760
113
So there are some people who did not need jesus? Because they fulfilled the law by obeying every jot and tittle?
It did not state some people don't need Jesus. It does say some obeyed all the Lord commanded.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
OK, I posted that verse and asked how you view it, so you do not answer, but sauy I quoted it and ask me a question about it. Why can I not get a single answer out of you?

2 passages and I asked your view. I continually answer your questions.

SO we are never tolf to "fulfill" the law, that is a falsehood that is possibly a part of your misunderstading. We are told to obey, we are told guarding His commands is love to Him and to others:

1 John 4:19, “We love Him because He first loved us.”

Exodus 20:6, “But showing love to thousands who love Me by keeping My Laws.”

John 14:15, “If you love Me, keep My commandments.”

Finally the verse that says:

1 John 5:2-3, "By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and guard His commands. For this is the love for God, that we guard His commands, and His commands are not heavy."

G926 βαρύς barus (ɓa-rïs') adj.
1. weighty (i.e. as something bearing down; not simply “heavy”).
2. (figuratively) grievous, burdensome.
[probably from baino “to walk,” through the notion of going down]
KJV: grievous, heavy, weightier
See also: G922

G926 βαρύς, βαρεῖα, βαρύ, heavy;
1. properly, i. e. heavy in weight: φορτίον, Matthew 23:4 (in 11:30 we have the opposite, ἐλαφρόν).

2. metaphorically,
a. burdensome: ἐντολή, the keeping of which is grievous, 1 John 5:3.
b. severe, stern: ἐπιστολή, 2 Corinthians 10:10 (others, imposing, impressive, cf. Wetstein at the passage).
c. weighty, i. e. of great moment: τά βαρύτερα τοῦ νόμου the weightier precepts of the law, Matthew 23:23; αἰτιάματα (better αἰτιώματα (which see)), Acts 25:7.
d. violent, cruel, unsparing (A. V. grievous): λύκοι, Acts 20:29 (so also Homer, Iliad 1:89; Xenophon, Ages. 11, 12).

heavy/burdensome is not meaning will do them perfect 100% of the time. See I think this is your error you isloate what James says, even though James is says TO FOLLOW, you say nreak one!!!! PERFECT OR NOTHING!!! this is not what James is saying. read James.

James 1:22-25, “And become doers of the Word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves. Because if anyone is a hearer of the Word and not a doer, he is like a man who looks at his natural face in a mirror, for he looks at himself, and goes away, and immediately forgets what he was like. But he that looked into the perfect Law of liberty, and continues in it, not becoming a hearer that forgets, but a doer of work, this one shall be blessed in his doing.”

James 2:8-12, “If you truly accomplish the sovereign Law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself, (Lev 19:18) you do well, but if you show partiality, you commit sin, being found guilty by the Law as transgressors. For whoever shall guard all the Law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all. For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” (Exo 20:14) also said, “Do not murder.” (Exo 20:13) Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of Law. So speak and so do as those who are to be judged by the Law of liberty.
1. The law of moses is not the law of liberty, it is the law of death because no one can fulfill it “cursed is the one who does not obey ever word (jot and tittle)
2. his commands are not heavy....

command 1. Love the lord your god with all your heart and soul
command 2. Love your neighbor as yourself. Who is your nigh or? The person living next door, the person on the street, anyone you come in contact, be it your enemy, your fiend or someone you do not know

when you are following these 2 commands, which are not heavy or burdensom, you will will not break any of gods commands, and in effect, you will be following the law by practice.

now if you want to do it the way Isreal tried to do it, it is a burden that not even the fathers could carry as scripture says.

you see the word law and you always go to moses, thats your problem. You have to open your mind and stop being so focused on one thing

Once again, i am trying to share HOW we mature in christ and become obedient children, not trying to say its ok not to.

now i answered you, can you answer me? Or is that to much to ask?
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
No this part


that is why I posted this for you;
let me show you how you do thinks to misrepresent what others are saying

this is what you did

your quote...

yep, by following the law your indebted to keep it, this makes you a slave to sin, because you can not keep it

if you think you keep the law. Then you water down the law. Its quite simple math, anything short of 100% = fail, if you fail, yet say you do not fail, you are watering down the standard,
my actual point

yep, by following the law your indebted to keep it, this makes you a slave to sin, because you can not keep it

if you think you keep the law. Then you water down the law. Its quite simple math, anything short of 100% = fail, if you fail, yet say you do not fail, you are watering down the standard,
see how just highlighting one aspect you totally change the meaning of what one is telling you

i explained why it makes you a slave to sin. You keep comming at me with things not even related to what i am saying

until you start to sit and open up to what i am saying, you will never understand and we will continue to be 180 degrees apart in what we are saying

you can not have a discussion when one party is never understanding the other party, its impossible
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
You never showed MY OWN WORDS, you keep saying but SHOW MY OWN WODS I SAID, not you saying what Im saying, show my own words. EXACTY where please.
I did

i quoted your words and showed you how you mistepresented what i was saying

i had respect for you when you first came in, you seemed polite and really wanting to discuss, sadly you have gone like your brothers here, And i am quickly losing respect.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
PRECISELY because of ones like you and your ilk!
That's WHY the Father SENT Christ!
Go ahead! Blow me off!
But, I speak the TRUTH!
And somewheres deep down in those charred remains you call a heart?
You KNOW IT!
Isaiah 28

15 Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death, and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves:

Just "look" what you have to look forwards to:
Isaiah 28
18 And your covenant with death shall be disannulled, and your agreement with hell shall not stand; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, then ye shall be trodden down by it.
(one would have to have gone through this to know)
You want man's precepts to teach you?
Or God?
Yawn

i am sick of your games

back on ignore
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
I did understand the point you were trying to make. But the Word says differently, doesn't it? This is not my "opinion" these are verses from the Word. Are you telling me to disregard what is written by God and go with your explanation instead? It will never happen.
No it does not

if one can keep the law, they have never sinned, that means they are righteous that means they never needed to sacrifice for their sin, thus jesus never had to pay for their sin, they did what adam and eve failed to do

the word says all have sinned and fall short

fall short of what? Gods standard

what is that standard?

perfection

the law does not even give is a complete list of sins, it is just a basic list, a list of things no one but christ has kept, to show us our need for him

if he showed us every sin, we would all crumble where we stand
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
No, the devil wants you to take your mind off of the truth of the Word of God and obedience to that Word. Once again you quote the law of Moses, the law before the Cross. Why do you not speak of all the work Jesus did and the freedom from bondage to "being" perfect through repentance and forgiveness through the blood of the Lamb, to life, not death, the light yoke? Yes, the world should think we are righteous, not evil. When did being righteous become bad? Isn't it only considered bad in ONE way? Obedience to God is demanded by Him.
I have my mind on the word sis

i live my seeking to be obedient

what i have learned, is trying to do it by following the law is an impossible task. Because no one can do it,

when i found it was never made for that purpose and started doing it gids way, i found victory over many sins, my ability to serve oher grew exponentially, and my ability to be like christ finally came.

i am trying to help you people here find that victory,

 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
It did not state some people don't need Jesus. It does say some obeyed all the Lord commanded.
So i guess obeying all the lord commanded, and all the law must mean two different things then right?

which was the point i was trying to make
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Its pretty sad people can not fathom how serious just one minor sin is, how that one small, seemingly meaningless sin is so offensive to a holy and righteous god, that his justice demands death for that sin.

i mean think, adam took a bite out of a fruit, and look at the result, all one has to do is look at the word today to see what one, seemingly meaningless sin, did to all mankind

yet they want to walk around and think its ok to sin those sins, it must be, i can do them and still be righteous

they yell we excuse our sin, when in reality it is them either denying or excusing their own.

they claim to follow the law, yet the very law they claim they follow would condemn them on sight if God called them to judgment this day,

people want freedom, they want rest, they want peace, yet they seel death and sinfulness

again, its sad.