Did Jesus ever tell us that we no longer need to keep the law of Moses?

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Marcelo

Senior Member
Feb 4, 2016
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.... Who gave them the law? Can LOVE be given as a gift? Can Jesus be a gift? Can a gift be kept, can it be rejected, trampled on, thrown away?Yes. But can you or anyone revoke or nullify God's words? Maybe you can if you consider His laws as not from Him or His very own words. But that would only prove you to be what these verses say....Romans 3:4, 1 John 2:3-6, John 8:42-47
Who gave them the law?
God gave them the Law (the law of Moses), but after Jesus' ascension He gave us a new law.

Can a gift be kept, can it be rejected, trampled on, thrown away?
Do you think the word "gift" here refers to the Law? I think the word "gift" here means blessings.

Can you or anyone revoke or nullify God's words?
No, nobody can do that; only God can change His own laws.
 

Marcelo

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Feb 4, 2016
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Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away. Matthew 24:35
The message here is: Don't cling to the world; cling to God's (Jesus') word.

God is God and He can amend His word. Here's an example:

Jesus replaced the "an eye for an eye" rule with the "turn the other cheek" rule.
 

Marcelo

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Feb 4, 2016
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Remember the law of my servant Moses, the decrees and laws I gave him at Horeb for all Israel. Malachi 4:4

“For God so loved the world that HE GAVE his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. John 3:16

Look at the similarities. Both were given and both were received then rejected. Both can be found on/in their hearts through the new covenant through FAITH and OBEDIENCE.
To reject a law is one thing; to stop obeying an obsolete law, and embracing a new one, is another.
 

Marcelo

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Feb 4, 2016
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Brothers, do not slander one another. Anyone who speaks against his brother or judges him speaks against the law and judges it. When you judge the law, you are not keeping it, but sitting in judgment on it. There is only one Lawgiver and Judge, the one who is able to save and destroy. But you—who are you to judge your neighbor?
What law is James talking about? Is he clearly stating that we have to keep the law of Moses?

Google the following words: The law in James - M. J. Evans.

You'll see that this issue is very debatable.
 

Marcelo

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Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. Romans 13:1-2

For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, masquerading as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. It is not surprising, then, if his servants masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve.
2 Corinthians 11:13-15
All these things were written by the apostle who told us to stop keeping the law of Moses.
 

Marcelo

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Feb 4, 2016
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At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved. For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect—if that were possible. Matthew 24:10-13,24 (1 Timothy 4:1-5, 2 Peter 2:1-22)
Do you believe that he who keeps the law of Moses to the end will be saved? Do you believe salvation can be obtained by keeping the law?
 

Marcelo

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Feb 4, 2016
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For certain men whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are godless men, who change the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord.
Jude 1:4
Do you think this verse refers to us, non-legalistic Christians?
 

Marcelo

Senior Member
Feb 4, 2016
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The word/s of the Master is a law to His servants, written on/in their hearts.

Confess Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior and walk in Love.

GOD IS good and His LOVE endures forever. Amen.
Amen!
 

Marcelo

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Feb 4, 2016
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No need to quote historians. James himself in acts 15 decided that only gentile believers were excused from the law. Jewish believers must still be zealous for the law, and acts 21 confirmed it.
You're right!

Acts 21:17-20 When we arrived at Jerusalem, the brothers received us warmly. The next day Paul and the rest of us went to see James, and all the elders were present. Paul greeted them and reported in detail what God had done among the Gentiles through his ministry. When they heard this, they praised God. Then they said to Paul: "You see, brother, how many thousands of Jews have believed, and all of them are zealous for the law.
 
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but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.
Romans 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

You are assuming the laws of Moses is a gift, not a command. Then, based on THAT ASSUMPTION, you add to it something that pertains to Gods election.

God tells us the gifts, salvation, justification, etc. I have never heard of the law being a gift. WHERE DO I FIND it in the Scriptures? What Jesus accomplished for us are gifts.

Everyone considers Gods laws as from God.
I'm trying my best not to offend you or anyone here but...being a Christian, what good things do you have or possess now which did not come from God who is the Creator of all things and the Great Provider.

The law is good, holy and spiritual. (Romans 7:12-14)

Don’t be deceived, my dear brothers. Every GOOD and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows. James 1:17

... For who makes you different from anyone else? What do you have that you did not receive? And if you did receive it, why do you boast as though you did not? 1 Corinthians 4:1-7

“Remember the law of my servant Moses, the decrees and laws I gave him at Horeb for all Israel.
Malachi 4:4

the people of Israel. Theirs is the adoption as sons; theirs the divine glory, the covenants, the RECEIVING OF THE LAW, the temple worship and the promises. Theirs are the patriarchs, and from them is traced the human ancestry of Christ, who is God over all, forever praised! Amen. Romans 9:4-5

First of all, they have been entrusted with the very words of God. Romans 3:1-2

Is the law God's very own words which He gave for all Israel as the one LAWGIVER and JUDGE? If it is His words, are they spirit?

The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and they are life. John 6:63

It is written that all scripture is God-breathed, is the law a part of the scriptures?

I believe that the law is part of the scriptures, God's own words which are spirit and life(John 6;63), just as the body without the spirit is DEAD.(James 2:14-26)
I consider the Scripture together with Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior as the greatest gift I have received from God and again, the law is part of the Scriptures and it is good, holy and spiritual.

“Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, obey the commandments.” “Which ones?” the man inquired. Jesus replied, “‘Do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not give false testimony, honor your father and mother,’ and ‘love your neighbor as yourself.’
Matthew 19:17-19

...For what the law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the sinful nature, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful man to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in sinful man, in order that the righteous requirements of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit. Those who live according to the sinful nature have their minds set on what that nature desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires. The mind of sinful man is death, but the mind controlled by the Spirit is life and peace; the sinful mind is hostile to God. It does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. Romans 8:1-17

It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace. Hebrews 6:4-6

Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away. Matthew 24:35

The law is God's words in the scriptures and it will never pass away. It may not be a gift but only for those who have not truly received and accepted it. I'm sure you did accept it Sis.

The word/s of the Master is a law to His servants, written on/in their hearts.

Confess Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior and walk in Love.

GOD IS good and His LOVE endures forever. Amen.
 

DeighAnn

Well-known member
Jun 11, 2019
2,201
719
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I'm trying my best not to offend you or anyone here but...being a Christian, what good things do you have or possess now which did not come from God who is the Creator of all things and the Great Provider.

The law is good, holy and spiritual. (Romans 7:12-14)

Don’t be deceived, my dear brothers. Every GOOD and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows. James 1:17

... For who makes you different from anyone else? What do you have that you did not receive? And if you did receive it, why do you boast as though you did not? 1 Corinthians 4:1-7

“Remember the law of my servant Moses, the decrees and laws I gave him at Horeb for all Israel.
Malachi 4:4

the people of Israel. Theirs is the adoption as sons; theirs the divine glory, the covenants, the RECEIVING OF THE LAW, the temple worship and the promises. Theirs are the patriarchs, and from them is traced the human ancestry of Christ, who is God over all, forever praised! Amen. Romans 9:4-5

First of all, they have been entrusted with the very words of God. Romans 3:1-2

Is the law God's very own words which He gave for all Israel as the one LAWGIVER and JUDGE? If it is His words, are they spirit?

The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and they are life. John 6:63

It is written that all scripture is God-breathed, is the law a part of the scriptures?

I believe that the law is part of the scriptures, God's own words which are spirit and life(John 6;63), just as the body without the spirit is DEAD.(James 2:14-26)
I consider the Scripture together with Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior as the greatest gift I have received from God and again, the law is part of the Scriptures and it is good, holy and spiritual.

“Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, obey the commandments.” “Which ones?” the man inquired. Jesus replied, “‘Do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not give false testimony, honor your father and mother,’ and ‘love your neighbor as yourself.’
Matthew 19:17-19

...For what the law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the sinful nature, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful man to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in sinful man, in order that the righteous requirements of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit. Those who live according to the sinful nature have their minds set on what that nature desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires. The mind of sinful man is death, but the mind controlled by the Spirit is life and peace; the sinful mind is hostile to God. It does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. Romans 8:1-17

It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace. Hebrews 6:4-6

Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away. Matthew 24:35

The law is God's words in the scriptures and it will never pass away. It may not be a gift but only for those who have not truly received and accepted it. I'm sure you did accept it Sis.

The word/s of the Master is a law to His servants, written on/in their hearts.

Confess Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior and walk in Love.

GOD IS good and His LOVE endures forever. Amen.
I agree with everything your wrote. But here is the problem I have with "ascribing" something to anything that God has not specifically stated Himself. Not one of your verses say "God gifted us the law, look at the law as a gift, these laws are a gift to you". It is only for that very fact, that I can not "accept" it as Gods Truth, even though I myself do feel like they are a gift. But when I even think to do that, I think right back on Cain and Able. Cain wanted to please God Cains way. Able pleased God by doing it Gods Way. (Yes, I know there is a ton more than that but now is not the time).
Without the laws, I would have no clue what is truly Holy to God. (well, maybe a clue). I am not trying to upset you but I check out everything I am told in the Word. If I find it GREAT, if I don't, I don't accept it. I just can't find it, I am sorry. And don't think I can't see and feel your love of the Word. I do. We do not have to totally agree on everything (though I wish you would:)).
Did we just decide to drop the 1st Covenant vs the 2nd Covenant, which is in effect? I think we did.
Stay in the Word. God graces us as He will. What will be revealed next we never know. I do know that once God has come and set it straight, there are no conflicts to be found anywhere in the Word on that subject. I have definitely had my 180s, a few 90s to. But never once on anything the Spirit has given me have I ever changed again. God Bless my brother, keep up the God work.
 
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Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
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Welcome to CC.

Perhaps you haven't read Acts 15 or Paul's letter to the Galatians; we gentiles are NOT under the Law. There is no temple, no Levites, and no priests. It is absolutely impossible to "keep the Torah" today.

Paul and James both make it clear: if you are going to attempt to keep the Law, you must keep ALL of it, or you fail completely. It is not a buffet from which you choose.
 

DeighAnn

Well-known member
Jun 11, 2019
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We are still required to keep the Torah. Read this bible study http://www.wisdomofgod.us/2019/02/14/the-torah-has-not-been-abolished/[/QUOTE




Welcome to the chat, let us jump right in.
What was until John? What was a shadow? What was until the seed was to come? What is the schoolmaster. Isn't it adultery if you marry another while your first husband still lives? What waxed old ready to vanish? What was pointing towards Christ? If the first was without fault, why was another need? What was nailed to the Cross? Why did Jesus say " This cup is the new testament in my blood"
Why are we supposed to put on the light yoke?

Now I do not consider the Commandments God wrote (Moral laws) himself as anything that shall ever pass away. Yes, we are to spiritually follow, but we are not physically follow, we are no longer "under", bound to, cursed, etc. we have been set free from all that was contrary to us.
 
Oct 24, 2019
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Welcome to CC.

Perhaps you haven't read Acts 15 or Paul's letter to the Galatians; we gentiles are NOT under the Law. There is no temple, no Levites, and no priests. It is absolutely impossible to "keep the Torah" today.

Paul and James both make it clear: if you are going to attempt to keep the Law, you must keep ALL of it, or you fail completely. It is not a buffet from which you choose.
A change in the priesthood brought a change in the Torah, not an abolishment of the Torah. The Torah is still binding, hence the reason the Messiah said, "I did not come to abolish the Torah", and also why Paul said, "do we therefore nullify the Torah with this belief? Not at all, we uphold the Torah". You cannot abolish a Torah that defines all that is sin, at least while sin still exists, which it still does. You shall not murder is as binding today as it was 3,000 years ago. A man shall not dress as a woman is as binding as it was 3,000 years ago. Understand.

http://www.wisdomofgod.us/2019/02/14/the-torah-has-not-been-abolished/
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
11,310
5,712
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A change in the priesthood brought a change in the Torah, not an abolishment of the Torah. The Torah is still binding, hence the reason the Messiah said, "I did not come to abolish the Torah", and also why Paul said, "do we therefore nullify the Torah with this belief? Not at all, we uphold the Torah". You cannot abolish a Torah that defines all that is sin, at least while sin still exists, which it still does. You shall not murder is as binding today as it was 3,000 years ago. A man shall not dress as a woman is as binding as it was 3,000 years ago. Understand.

http://www.wisdomofgod.us/2019/02/14/the-torah-has-not-been-abolished/
You're treating Torah as a buffet. Torah is one law; the sacrifices, the offerings, the tithe, the stoning, the priesthood, ALL of it. All of it is old covenant made with ISRAEL, not with the gentiles. We are in the NEW covenant in Christ's blood.