Did Jesus Have The Human Sinful Nature?

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

If we were separated Spiritually from GOD we would cease to exist. He rains down on the just and unjust; Blessed be the name of the LORD!

Not so. Spiritual death is separation from GOD, not cessation of existence.

 

[lightbearer]

Not so. Spiritual death is separation from GOD, not cessation of existence.

Your lacking something extremely important in regards to your argument.

Have a nice day

 

[lightbearer]

Edited

You are lacking something extremely important in regards to your argument.

Have a nice day

 

[DevotiontoBible]

He that knoweth to to good and does it not; to him it is sin.
Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
(Heb 5:8-9 KJV)

I can't figure out why you posted that verse in response to me. Can you explain? Here it is in a modern translation :
Even though Jesus was God’s Son, he learned obedience from the things he suffered. In this way, God qualified him as a perfect High Priest, and he became the source of eternal salvation for all those who obey him.
Hebrews 5:8‭-‬9 NLT
https://bible.com/bible/116/heb.5.8-9.NLT

 

[Dino246]

NOPE, Yeshua stated, I suppose you believe I have come to bring peace, NAY, I have come to bring division.

I will divide myself from ignorance all day long!!

I suggest you take another look at Galatians 5:22-23. There is no need to treat others with contempt, even if you think they are incorrect.

As for "ignorance", is God glorified when you deride another for not knowing something that you have learned? God doesn't give any of us knowledge so that we can denigrate others who don't know yet what God has graciously taught us.

Nobody is going to listen to a jack-donkey, so don't be one.

 

[Dino246]

In the context of Rom 5:12 "all sinned" does not mean all including Jesus committed sins. It means that since we all humanity were in Adam when he committed sin, received the curse of physical death, and passed it on to us in our human nature. Jesus' physical death proves He had this sin nature He received from His mother.

Either "all" means "all" or it doesn't... that was essentially your claim. Your position is inconsistent.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

It is in the AOG systematic theology book they use for their Bible college. I will try to upload the pages if you want.

I can't find what you are teaching on any AOG website. If you want to upload anything first make sure you won't be violating an AOG copyright.

 

[preston39]

John 14:
Yeshua makes the claim that when you SEE HIM you see the Father and when you see the Father you SEE YESHUA. Yeshua then furthers that with the Father lives inside Him.

Colossians 1:15
He [Yeshua] is the visible image of the invisible God.

these 2 verses are concrete evidence that Yeshua is also Yahweh [the Father].

even Yeshua claimed in John 8 that He was I AM. which is the Burning Bush/Moses/hand who wrote the 10 Commandments/command #1 have no other gods before ME [SINGULAR]!!

AND, ELOHIM in the Hebrew means SINGULAR GOD. only Americans made it be many gods.

I trust the ancient Hebrew over an American opinion any day!!

there is NO TRINITY!!
the word TRINITY is NOWHERE in any Bible!!

G...,

Trinity (man's word) represents....three.
Neither is ......"rapture".....(man's word)...but, it will occur...the Bible says so.

consider this re; Trinity..

G-d has always existed.
G-d created all...Christ did not.
Christ was born of an earthly virgin mother...G-d was not.
Christ died on the cross...G-d did not.
Christ rose from the dead....G-d never died.
G-d knows when Christ will return at the 2nd advent .....Christ does not know.
Christ will return at His 2nd advent......G-d will not.
Christ sent The Holy Spirit who is with us now....... as our comforter.......That is not Christ or G-d, etc.

Doesn't the above suggest there are Three in parallel referenced? I think so.

Also, you may not believe the satanic trinity exists...but, it does; ...Satan, Anti-Christ and false Prophet.
Does that concept ring a bell?
Note.... the word satanic trinity also is not in The Bible....but, it's meaning is.

 

[DevotiontoBible]

Either "all" means "all" or it doesn't... that was essentially your claim. Your position is inconsistent.

Words are defined by in the context they are used. My position is sound, yours is based on illiteracy.

 

[OstrichSmiling]

The phrase "knew no sin" means He never sinned, not that He didn't have the fallen adamic sin nature. We know He did because He died.

For God made Christ, who never sinned, to be the offering for our sin, so that we could be made right with God through Christ.
2 Corinthians 5:21 NLT
https://bible.com/bible/116/2co.5.21.NLT

What you fail to grasp for some purpose behind starting this thread is, you're wrong! You will forever be wrong. You cannot ever substantiate your blasphemy with scripture because it does not exist.

You don't realize that the Apostle Paul referred to Jesus as a man. He was apparently not aware of Jesus' divine nature or he'd never have written of Jesus in human terms. One example. who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. 5For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave Himself as a ransom for all—the testimony that was given at just the right time.

You can dispense with your blasphemy and I'll apologize for recognizing it as such. Post the scripture that informs us through God's words that his only begotten son, begotten upon the virgin Mary, that's key as to why Jesus was not born with a sin nature, was in fact born with a sinful nature.
He was created in Mary's womb by the holy spirit. For you to be right, Jesus' father, God, himself, would have to be a sinner in order to bestow a sin nature upon that which He begat inside the womb of a pure sinless woman whom God chose for his purpose.

Proceed!
Or, be recognized for your own purpose here. Blasphemy of the holy spirit.
God help you.

 

[OstrichSmiling]

G...,

Trinity (man's word) represents....three.
Neither is ......"rapture".....(man's word)...but, it will occur...the Bible says so.

consider this re; Trinity..

G-d has always existed.
G-d created all...Christ did not.
Christ was born of an earthly virgin mother...G-d was not.
Christ died on the cross...G-d did not.
Christ rose from the dead....G-d never died.
G-d knows when Christ will return at the 2nd advent .....Christ does not know.
Christ will return at His 2nd advent......G-d will not.
Christ sent The Holy Spirit who is with us now....... as our comforter.......That is not Christ or G-d, etc.

Doesn't the above suggest there are Three in parallel referenced? I think so.

Also, you may not believe the satanic trinity exists...but, it does; ...Satan, Anti-Christ and false Prophet.
Does that concept ring a bell?
Note.... the word satanic trinity also is not in The Bible....but, it's meaning is.

There is no such thing as a triune god in the Christian faith.
That is paganism. It is known as Tri-Theism. The idea that there are three separate distinct persons in Heaven.

• God
• The holy spirit
• Jesus the Christ

Trinity is revoked in its entirety by God's own words in the first testament inspired to life by his sacred will and spirit.
Deuteronomy 6:Hear, O Israel, and be careful to observe them, so that you may prosper and multiply greatly in a land flowing with milk and honey, just as the LORD, the God of your fathers, has promised you. 4 Hear,O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is One. 5 And you shall love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength.

And many times over. I copied these scriptures from a site that I am not entirely comfortable promoting as source due to conflicts in their teachings. However, the scriptures are an accurate collection and are used here for that purpose.


The one God: Father, Son, Holy Spirit
Passages that say there is only one God:

1. "For this reason a man shall leave his father and his mother, and be joined to his wife; and they shall become one [echad] flesh. " Genesis 2:24
2. "there is no one like Yahweh our God." Exodus 8:10
3. "Yahweh, He is God; there is no other besides Him." Deuteronomy 4:35
4. "Yahweh, He is God in heaven above and on the earth below; there is no other." Deuteronomy 4:39
5. "See now that I, I am He, And there is no god besides Me" Deuteronomy 32:39
6. "Hear, O Israel! Yahweh is our God, Yahweh is one [echad]!" Deuteronomy 6:4
7. "You are great, O Lord God; for there is none like You, and there is no God besides You" 2 Samuel 7:22
8. "For who is God, besides Yahweh? And who is a rock, besides our God?" 2 Samuel 22:32
9. "Yahweh is God; there is no one else." 1 Kings 8:60
10. "You are the God, You alone [bad], of all the kingdoms of the earth." 2 Kings 19:15
11. "O Lord, there is none like You, nor is there any God besides You" 1 Chronicles 17:20
12. "You alone [bad] are Yahweh." Nehemiah 9:6
13. "For who is God, but Yahweh? And who is a rock, except our God" Psalm 18:31
14. "You alone [bad], Lord, are God." Isaiah 37:20
15. "Before Me there was no God formed, And there will be none after Me." Isaiah 43:10
16. "'I am the first and I am the last, And there is no God besides Me." Isaiah 44:6
17. "Is there any God besides Me, Or is there any other Rock? I know of none." Isaiah 44:8
18. "I am Yahweh, and there is no other; Besides Me there is no God." Isaiah 45:5
19. "Surely, God is with you, and there is none else, No other God." Isaiah 45:14
20. "I am Yahweh, and there is none else." Isaiah 45:18
21. "Is it not I, Yahweh? And there is no other God besides Me, A righteous God and a Savior; There is none except Me." Isaiah 45:21
22. "I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is no one like Me" Isaiah 46:9
23. "And Yahweh will be king over all the earth; in that day Yahweh will be the only one [echad], and His name the only one[echad]." Zechariah 14:9
24. "No one can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one [hen] and love the other, or he will be devoted to one [hen] and despise the other. You cannot serve God and wealth." Matthew 6:24
25. "For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one [hen] flesh"? " Matthew 19:5
26. "But do not be called Rabbi; for One [hen] is your Teacher, and you are all brothers." Matthew 23:8
27. "Do not be called leaders; for One [hen] is your Leader, that is, Christ." Matthew 23:10
28. ""The foremost is, 'Hear, O Israel! The Lord our God is one [hen] Lord; " Mark 12:29
29. "you do not seek the glory that is from the one and only [monos] God?" John 5:44
30. "I and the Father are one [hen]." John 10:30
31. "This is eternal life, that they may know You, the only [monos] true God" John 17:3
32. "The glory which You have given Me I have given to them, that they may be one [hen], just as We are one [hen]" John 17:22
33. "since indeed God is one [hen]" Romans 3:30
34. "to the only [monos] wise God, Amen." Romans 16:27
35. "there is no God but one [hen]" 1 Corinthians 8:4
36. "yet for us there is but one [hen] God, the Father, from whom are all things and we exist for Him; and one [hen] Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him." 1 Corinthians 8:6
37. "Now a mediator is not for one party only; whereas God is only one [hen]." Galatians 3:20
38. "There is one [hen] body and one [hen] Spirit, one [hen] hope, one [hen] Lord, one [hen] faith, one [hen] baptism, one [hen] God and Father of all who is over all and through all and in all." Ephesians 4:4-6
39. "Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only [monos] God" 1 Timothy 1:17
40. "which He will bring about at the proper time—He who is the blessed and only [monos] Sovereign, the King of kings and Lord of lords, who alone [monos] possesses immortality and dwells in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see. To Him be honor and eternal dominion! Amen." 1 Timothy 6:16
41. "For there is one [hen] God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus," 1 Timothy 2:5
42. "You believe that God is one [hen]. You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder." James 2:19
43. "For certain persons deny our only [monos] Master and Lord, Jesus Christ." Jude 4
44. "the only [monos] God our Savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord. Amen." Jude 25

 

[DevotiontoBible]

What you fail to grasp for some purpose behind starting this thread is, you're wrong! You will forever be wrong. You cannot ever substantiate your blasphemy with scripture because it does not exist.

You don't realize that the Apostle Paul referred to Jesus as a man. He was apparently not aware of Jesus' divine nature or he'd never have written of Jesus in human terms. One example. who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. 5For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave Himself as a ransom for all—the testimony that was given at just the right time.

You can dispense with your blasphemy and I'll apologize for recognizing it as such. Post the scripture that informs us through God's words that his only begotten son, begotten upon the virgin Mary, that's key as to why Jesus was not born with a sin nature, was in fact born with a sinful nature.
He was created in Mary's womb by the holy spirit. For you to be right, Jesus' father, God, himself, would have to be a sinner in order to bestow a sin nature upon that which He begat inside the womb of a pure sinless woman whom God chose for his purpose.

Proceed!
Or, be recognized for your own purpose here. Blasphemy of the holy spirit.
God help you.

Just because my thread does not conform to your unbiblical Calvinism on the depravity of man doctrine does not make a blasphemer.

 

[DevotiontoBible]

I already have. Here it is again:

What the Law could not do, because human nature was weak, God did. He condemned sin in human nature by sending his own Son, who came with a nature like our sinful nature, to do away with sin.
Romans 8:3 GNT
https://bible.com/bible/68/rom.8.3.GNT

 

[DevotiontoBible]

And another:

What the law could not do since it was limited by the flesh, God did. He condemned sin in the flesh by sending His own Son in flesh like ours under sin’s domain, and as a sin offering,
Romans 8:3 HCSB
https://bible.com/bible/72/rom.8.3.HCSB

 

[DevotiontoBible]

Yet another

The law of Moses was unable to save us because of the weakness of our sinful nature. So God did what the law could not do. He sent his own Son in a body like the bodies we sinners have. And in that body God declared an end to sin’s control over us by giving his Son as a sacrifice for our sins.
Romans 8:3 NLT
https://bible.com/bible/116/rom.8.3.NLT

 

[OstrichSmiling]

Just because my thread does not conform to your unbiblical Calvinism on the depravity of man doctrine does not make a blasphemer.

There's no need for dark temper. You know little of Calvinism or you'd not accuse one who is not and has never demonstrated herself to be Calvinist.
While what you insist upon for 36 pages now is indeed blasphemy of the holy spirit. At least with John Calvin who had a history in the law before turning to Theology, his doctrine comported with written scripture. Yours violates every tenet in scripture. Old and new testaments.
You are a blasphemer! If you do not wish to be identified by your egregious unforgivable sin, as scripture forewarns you and that you ignore at your immortal peril, do not open a discussion and then for 30+ pages defend your blasphemy.
Instead of showing proof as requested, that there is scripture that supports your claim Jesus had a sinful nature, you call names. That is a self-admission you know you're wrong.

Blasphemer isn't name calling.
It is identifying one who flagrantly despises the truth of Christ in scripture. Something that an all knowing Father thankfully warned us about as what would to come in future. And there you are. Jesus was the pure unblemished lamb of God. Pure! That means he was not born with a sinful nature because he was not born of man. His line in flesh descends from the mother, as is tradition in Judaism. Mary was related to king David.
Jesus' Father was not Joseph. Jesus was not born from woman's egg and man's sperm so as to insure he was born human and with a sin nature.
Mary was chosen to be Jesus' mother by God because she as a pure vessel. A literal virgin. Which in her time was a term that also referred to an unmarried girl or woman. Mary was a girl when she was blessed by the holy spirit to conceive God with us, Emmanuel.

For you to be correct God would have had to allow the sinful nature of the flesh to enter the divine spirit he begat into Mary's womb.

That's the other reason your deeply flawed argument and perspective is blasphemy.

I did err earlier and for that I do offer apology to sisters and brothers here who are with me in Christ. I prayed that God would help you as a blasphemer.
His word says he does not do that.
My apologies.

You are not devoted to the Bible that informs the Christians.
Sadly, just this thread demonstrates you are devoted to something other. For my part I will not help you dig your hole to damnation any deeper by challenging you to continue to escalate your blasphemy as you already have by resorting to minor age tactics as deflection from your sin.

God be with us all. Flagrant 36 pages of blasphemy and dear God filled hearts hoping to turn the damned aright. Sisters and brothers, you have my respect. Though you might notice, the blasphemer is obstinate and shall not be moved from their insistance that Jesus was impure and himself needed a savior first. Which is what they are actually saying when they claim Jesus had a sin nature even though he worked not to sin.

Which is the other proof the scriptures are unknown to them. Jesus did violate the laws of Moses. He was chastised for this by the temple elders when he would heal people on the Sabbath day of rest.
He was executed by Rome because the Sanhedrin and Pharisee's could not have Jesus stoned for blasphemy so close to Passover. Fascinating detail that. The temple elders would not call for Jesus to be murdered by stoning because it was so close to the remembrance day of their people being spared death for their sins when enslaved in Egypt due to an unblemished lamb's blood being painted across the door of their homes. So they asked instead that Rome spill our Savior's blood on their behalf for having committed the sin of blasphemy so that the sin of killing that pure unblemished lamb the Christ would not be their responsibility.

And lo, that timing of what the Sanhedrin and Pharisee's thought was their own machination with the Roman authority was actually falling into step with God's planning. The reason his only begotten son was born. To be that last sin sacrifice. That last murdered unblemished lamb put to death on the last altar for the sins of the whole world for all time.
When after that the temple powers still oversaw the slaughter of animals for that purpose. Not knowing they had asked Rome to kill their God.

Everything in scripture has meaning that is deeper than the written word. Jesus ministry was largely in parables. Read the word, see the bigger picture.

 

[DevotiontoBible]

Another

It is impossible to do what God’s standards demand because of the weakness our human nature has. But God sent his Son to have a human nature as sinners have and to pay for sin. That way God condemned sin in our corrupt nature.
Romans 8:3 GW
https://bible.com/bible/70/rom.8.3.GW

 

[DevotiontoBible]

There's no need for dark temper. You know little of Calvinism or you'd not accuse one who is not and has never demonstrated herself to be Calvinist.
While what you insist upon for 36 pages now is indeed blasphemy of the holy spirit. At least with John Calvin who had a history in the law before turning to Theology, his doctrine comported with written scripture. Yours violates every tenet in scripture. Old and new testaments.
You are a blasphemer! If you do not wish to be identified by your egregious unforgivable sin, as scripture forewarns you and that you ignore at your immortal peril, do not open a discussion and then for 30+ pages defend your blasphemy.
Instead of showing proof as requested, that there is scripture that supports your claim Jesus had a sinful nature, you call names. That is a self-admission you know you're wrong.

Blasphemer isn't name calling.
It is identifying one who flagrantly despises the truth of Christ in scripture. Something that an all knowing Father thankfully warned us about as what would to come in future. And there you are. Jesus was the pure unblemished lamb of God. Pure! That means he was not born with a sinful nature because he was not born of man. His line in flesh descends from the mother, as is tradition in Judaism. Mary was related to king David.
Jesus' Father was not Joseph. Jesus was not born from woman's egg and man's sperm so as to insure he was born human and with a sin nature.
Mary was chosen to be Jesus' mother by God because she as a pure vessel. A literal virgin. Which in her time was a term that also referred to an unmarried girl or woman. Mary was a girl when she was blessed by the holy spirit to conceive God with us, Emmanuel.

For you to be correct God would have had to allow the sinful nature of the flesh to enter the divine spirit he begat into Mary's womb.

That's the other reason your deeply flawed argument and perspective is blasphemy.

I did err earlier and for that I do offer apology to sisters and brothers here who are with me in Christ. I prayed that God would help you as a blasphemer.
His word says he does not do that.
My apologies.

You are not devoted to the Bible that informs the Christians.
Sadly, just this thread demonstrates you are devoted to something other. For my part I will not help you dig your hole to damnation any deeper by challenging you to continue to escalate your blasphemy as you already have by resorting to minor age tactics as deflection from your sin.

God be with us all. Flagrant 36 pages of blasphemy and dear God filled hearts hoping to turn the damned aright. Sisters and brothers, you have my respect. Though you might notice, the blasphemer is obstinate and shall not be moved from their insistance that Jesus was impure and himself needed a savior first. Which is what they are actually saying when they claim Jesus had a sin nature even though he worked not to sin.

Which is the other proof the scriptures are unknown to them. Jesus did violate the laws of Moses. He was chastised for this by the temple elders when he would heal people on the Sabbath day of rest.
He was executed by Rome because the Sanhedrin and Pharisee's could not have Jesus stoned for blasphemy so close to Passover. Fascinating detail that. The temple elders would not call for Jesus to be murdered by stoning because it was so close to the remembrance day of their people being spared death for their sins when enslaved in Egypt due to an unblemished lamb's blood being painted across the door of their homes. So they asked instead that Rome spill our Savior's blood on their behalf for having committed the sin of blasphemy so that the sin of killing that pure unblemished lamb the Christ would not be their responsibility.

And lo, that timing of what the Sanhedrin and Pharisee's thought was their own machination with the Roman authority was actually falling into step with God's planning. The reason his only begotten son was born. To be that last sin sacrifice. That last murdered unblemished lamb put to death on the last altar for the sins of the whole world for all time.
When after that the temple powers still oversaw the slaughter of animals for that purpose. Not knowing they had asked Rome to kill their God.

Everything in scripture has meaning that is deeper than the written word. Jesus ministry was largely in parables. Read the word, see the bigger picture.

You posted an article from a Calvinist and another thread you posted a video from a Presbyterian. You have a Calivinst bias not a Biblical one.

 

[OstrichSmiling]

And another:

What the law could not do since it was limited by the flesh, God did. He condemned sin in the flesh by sending His own Son in flesh like ours under sin’s domain, and as a sin offering,
Romans 8:3 HCSB
https://bible.com/bible/72/rom.8.3.HCSB

All those scriptures do is prove that you are like unto Paul. Unaware Jesus was divine and not like you or me at all. You were asked to show where Jesus has a sinful nature. Not where a man who did not ever hear Jesus minister in the flesh claims he had a sinful nature. Or, after Jesus ascended to the Father, writes that we are saved from our sins because we have a mediator in Heaven with the father "the man" Jesus the Christ.
Jesus was not a man that ascended to the Father.

The old testament tells us no one can look upon the father, God, and live.
How then would he accomplish giving his free irrevocable grace filled gift of eternal life and salvation to the worlds sinners?
He would send himself into a worthy woman. His holy spirit, which is what God is, would deposit himself into her womb so as to be born by his design, since he created woman and man in the beginning, in the flesh.
Jesus flesh, housing, was that of a Jewish man. His soul, his spirit, was God.

In the beginning God created the Adam. And God breathed into the Adam's nostrils and the Adam became a living soul.
We all have the divine within. Belief in Jesus, God, is that which bridges that separation that occurred in the garden, all a parable in itself, so as to reconcile ourselves to the knowledge we are of God because God created all that is, was, or shall be of and from himself. Because there is no other. All this is taken from God's own words.

Jesus was the second Adam. He was the Adam as he arrived first. Flesh and divine spirited. This before the fall into the illusion of human/nature and mortal-ity.
Jesus healed in his dying as a man who was always divine from conception what the first Adam accomplished to separate our race, the human race, from that awareness. That consciousness.

Jesus did not have a sin nature. Jesus came to rectify the falling that is inherent in our sin nature.

But you don't believe that.
And try as you may, God's authority guarantees you shall never convince any Christian to.

I will not help you dig yourself deeper into your damnation by responding to your errant sin filled arguments further. God see's you!

 

[DevotiontoBible]

All those scriptures do is prove that you are like unto Paul. Unaware Jesus was divine and not like you or me at all.

The old testament tells us no one can look upon the father, God, and live.
How then would he accomplish giving his free irrevocable grace filled gift of eternal life and salvation to the worlds sinners?
He would send himself into a worthy woman. His holy spirit, which is what God is, would deposit himself into her womb so as to be born by his design, since he created woman and man in the beginning, in the flesh.
Jesus flesh, housing, was that of a Jewish man. His soul, his spirit, was God.

In the beginning God created the Adam. And God breathed into the Adam's nostrils and the Adam became a living soul.
We all have the divine within. Belief in Jesus, God, is that which bridges that separation that occurred in the garden, all a parable in itself, so as to reconcile ourselves to the knowledge we are of God because God created all that is, was, or shall be of and from himself. Because there is no other. All this is taken from God's own words.

Jesus was the second Adam. He was the Adam as he arrived first. Flesh and divine spirited. This before the fall into the illusion of human/nature and mortal-ity.
Jesus healed in his dying as a man who was always divine from conception what the first Adam accomplished to separate our race, the human race, from that awareness. That consciousness.

Jesus did not have a sin nature. Jesus came to rectify the falling that is inherent in our sin nature.

But you don't believe that.
And try as you may, God's authority guarantees you shall never convince any Christian to.

I will not help you dig yourself deeper into your damnation by responding to your errant sin filled arguments further. God see's you!

You are only ignoring the Bible. I just provided quotes from several Bible translations saying Jesus had our sinful nature.