Well, I feel like Christians as a whole are messing things up pretty bad. So it would not surprise me if that were to happen. But I do believe that they will be required to accept Jesus. I do not know "all things", and I don't pretend to. I just don't agree with many of the interpretations of prophecy that are out there. I don't even know if I agree with the whole preterist (sp) theory as I have not studied it. It just seems very clear to me that "we" have missed something. As I see it the church is the new Jerusalem and now I am not really waiting for any prophecy to be fulfilled. I do suppose that there will be some kind of end, but I do not see it playing out in scripture. Most of what I have read in the bible seems to point to the prophecies being fulfilled in the first century.
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E
Well paul said in romans 11 it will happen. That is why I asked yuo to study it, You said you wanted to learn.
[quote[But I do believe that they will be required to accept Jesus.[/quote]
If they want to get to heaven, Yes, But again, Paul said at some point in time they will all except jesus..
how can the church be the new jerusalem? if this is heaven, it is not very good. And God is not a very good king of the earth. Seeing his is not ruling with a rod of iron. and if he is, Then men must be overpowering him to keep this evil so widspread and dangerous.
Scripture says in the end, there will be a "falling away" do you not see that happening today in the gentile church?
[quote[But I do believe that they will be required to accept Jesus.[/quote]
If they want to get to heaven, Yes, But again, Paul said at some point in time they will all except jesus..
how can the church be the new jerusalem? if this is heaven, it is not very good. And God is not a very good king of the earth. Seeing his is not ruling with a rod of iron. and if he is, Then men must be overpowering him to keep this evil so widspread and dangerous.
Scripture says in the end, there will be a "falling away" do you not see that happening today in the gentile church?
K
Preterism is the philosophy that events in the bible have already taken place, and a preterist is one who believes this.
Hey, how do you spell "preterist". I tried to find where someone had spelled it but couldn't. From what I have read on here, I am a preterist or close to being one anyway. Again, I have not read their take on things, but if I am going to be using the word, I would like to know how it is spelled. 
[SUP]11 [/SUP]I say then, they did not stumble so as to fall, did they? May it never be! But by their transgression salvation has come to the Gentiles, to make them jealous. [SUP]12 [/SUP]Now if their transgression is riches for the world and their failure is riches for the Gentiles, how much more will their fulfillment be! [SUP]13[/SUP]But I am speaking to you who are Gentiles. Inasmuch then as I am an apostle of Gentiles, I magnify my ministry, [SUP]14 [/SUP]if somehow I might move to jealousy my fellow countrymen and save some of them. [SUP]15 [/SUP]For if their rejection is the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead? [SUP]16 [/SUP]If the first piece of dough is holy, the lump is also; and if the root is holy, the branches are too. The root is Jesus, the branches are members of the kingdom. The Israelites/Jews were cut off (not all, but the ones that refused God). And the Gentiles (that believed) were grafted in. And then he warns us not be arrogant.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive, were grafted in among them and became partaker with them of the rich root of the olive tree, [SUP]18 [/SUP]do not be arrogant toward the branches; but if you are arrogant, remember that it is not you who supports the root, but the root supports you. [SUP]19 [/SUP]You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” [SUP]20 [/SUP]Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; [SUP]21 [/SUP]for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either. [SUP]22 [/SUP]Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off. [SUP]23 [/SUP]And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. [SUP]24 [/SUP]For if you were cut off from what is by nature a wild olive tree, and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these who are the natural branches be grafted into their own olive tree?
[SUP]25 [/SUP]For I do not want you, brethren, to be uninformed of this mystery—so that you will not be wise in your own estimation—that a partial hardening has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in; [SUP]26 [/SUP]and so all Israel will be saved [I do not believe that this means everyone that has ever been an Israelite will be saved - Hitler was half Jew and I doubt seriously that he falls into the "all Israel will be saved" (Maybe only half of him)(I am curious, do you know the Greek wording here)]; just as it is written,
“The Deliverer will come from Zion,
He will remove ungodliness from Jacob.”
[SUP]27 [/SUP]“This is My covenant with them,
When I take away their sins.”
[SUP]28 [/SUP]From the standpoint of the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but from the standpoint of God’s choice they are beloved for the sake of the fathers; [SUP]29 [/SUP]for the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. [SUP]30 [/SUP]For just as you once were disobedient to God, but now have been shown mercy because of their disobedience,[SUP]31 [/SUP]so these also now have been disobedient, that because of the mercy shown to you they also may now be shown mercy. [SUP]32 [/SUP]For God has shut up all in disobedience so that He may show mercy to all. You might say that everyone is saved, but you would be wrong. It says, "so that He may show mercy to all. I believe this means that we are all under sin so that all can be offered salvation if they accept Jesus.
[SUP]33 [/SUP]Oh, the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and unfathomable His ways! [SUP]34 [/SUP]For who has known the mind of the Lord, or who became His counselor? [SUP]35 [/SUP]Or who has first given to Him that it might be paid back to him again? [SUP]36 [/SUP]For from Him and through Him and to Him are all things. To Him be the glory forever. Amen.
If God saves all of Israel, or even the whole world that would be fine by me (not that God has asked for my approval). But I really don't think that this will happen. If so, then Solomon was really on to something when he said that all is vanity/pointless. I am not sure that Solomon was aware of the crucifixion and resurrection when he wrote that.
From reading this, I do not get that "the Gentiles" will be cut off and the Israelites grafted back in. I believe that the church is the eternal kingdom, starting here while we are in the flesh and extending into eternity when we are in the spirit.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive, were grafted in among them and became partaker with them of the rich root of the olive tree, [SUP]18 [/SUP]do not be arrogant toward the branches; but if you are arrogant, remember that it is not you who supports the root, but the root supports you. [SUP]19 [/SUP]You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” [SUP]20 [/SUP]Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; [SUP]21 [/SUP]for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either. [SUP]22 [/SUP]Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off. [SUP]23 [/SUP]And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. [SUP]24 [/SUP]For if you were cut off from what is by nature a wild olive tree, and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these who are the natural branches be grafted into their own olive tree?
[SUP]25 [/SUP]For I do not want you, brethren, to be uninformed of this mystery—so that you will not be wise in your own estimation—that a partial hardening has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in; [SUP]26 [/SUP]and so all Israel will be saved [I do not believe that this means everyone that has ever been an Israelite will be saved - Hitler was half Jew and I doubt seriously that he falls into the "all Israel will be saved" (Maybe only half of him
)(I am curious, do you know the Greek wording here)]; just as it is written,“The Deliverer will come from Zion,
He will remove ungodliness from Jacob.”
[SUP]27 [/SUP]“This is My covenant with them,
When I take away their sins.”
[SUP]28 [/SUP]From the standpoint of the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but from the standpoint of God’s choice they are beloved for the sake of the fathers; [SUP]29 [/SUP]for the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. [SUP]30 [/SUP]For just as you once were disobedient to God, but now have been shown mercy because of their disobedience,[SUP]31 [/SUP]so these also now have been disobedient, that because of the mercy shown to you they also may now be shown mercy. [SUP]32 [/SUP]For God has shut up all in disobedience so that He may show mercy to all. You might say that everyone is saved, but you would be wrong. It says, "so that He may show mercy to all. I believe this means that we are all under sin so that all can be offered salvation if they accept Jesus.
[SUP]33 [/SUP]Oh, the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and unfathomable His ways! [SUP]34 [/SUP]For who has known the mind of the Lord, or who became His counselor? [SUP]35 [/SUP]Or who has first given to Him that it might be paid back to him again? [SUP]36 [/SUP]For from Him and through Him and to Him are all things. To Him be the glory forever. Amen.
If God saves all of Israel, or even the whole world that would be fine by me (not that God has asked for my approval). But I really don't think that this will happen. If so, then Solomon was really on to something when he said that all is vanity/pointless. I am not sure that Solomon was aware of the crucifixion and resurrection when he wrote that.
From reading this, I do not get that "the Gentiles" will be cut off and the Israelites grafted back in. I believe that the church is the eternal kingdom, starting here while we are in the flesh and extending into eternity when we are in the spirit.
Preterist, that is how I spelled it, but the spell check says that I am spelling it wrong. Well, thanks. From what I get from the bible, most or all of the prophecies have been fulfilled. There are some things I wonder about. But there are many interpretations by men that I just can't believe. I know that you believe there is going to be a third temple built - The temple that is being built today is that of the church, in my opinion. And if "they" build a third stone temple (building) it is not going to go well at all. I do not believe that this will make God happy. But more likely God will not allow them to build it.
E
[SUP]25 [/SUP]For I do not want you, brethren, to be uninformed of this mystery—so that you will not be wise in your own estimation—that a partial hardening has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in; [SUP]26 [/SUP]and so all Israel will be saved [I do not believe that this means everyone that has ever been an Israelite will be saved - Hitler was half Jew and I doubt seriously that he falls into the "all Israel will be saved" (Maybe only half of him)(I am curious, do you know the Greek wording here)];
)(I am curious, do you know the Greek wording here)];
This is not what it means. Look at the text.
1. A partial hardening has happened.
2. At a point of time ( this time being the time of the fullness of the gentiles) All Isreal (everyone on earth At that particular time who is a natural child of abraham issac and jacob) will be saved.
No one has ever said this is all people who ever lived is jewish. thats what I mean when I say your not listening to what I said. And you wonder why I get so frustrated.
This is speaking of a future event, not a past event this event has not yet occured.
why are they called hated because of the gospel but loved because of the promise, what promise?
Why did God say his gifts and calling of God are irevocable? What gift was he speaking of??
Do you realize how many people are descendants of Abraham? Israel, went out into the world for thousands of years and intermarried! Or are you saying only pure blood Israelites, because I doubt that they exist.
All Jews are Israelites. Judah = Israel
Jacob became Israel. And had twelve sons. One of them was Judah. Again: Judah is part of Israel. All Jews are Israelites (I am not referring to converted Jews)
All Jews are Israelites. Judah = Israel
Jacob became Israel. And had twelve sons. One of them was Judah. Again: Judah is part of Israel. All Jews are Israelites (I am not referring to converted Jews)
E
Paul is speaking future tense there bro.
So you tell me (this is LONG after Christ died and rose again)
look at the context.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]For I do not want you, brethren, to be uninformed of this mystery—so that you will not be wise in your own estimation—that a partial hardening has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in; [SUP]26 [/SUP]and so all Israel will be saved
The context is future. not past.
Ezekiel 12:21-28[SUP]21 [/SUP]Then the word of the Lord came to me, saying, [SUP]22 [/SUP]“Son of man, what is this proverb you people have concerning the land of Israel, saying, ‘The days are long and every vision fails’? [SUP]23 [/SUP]Therefore say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord God, “I will make this proverb cease so that they will no longer use it as a proverb in Israel.” But tell them, “The days draw near as well as the fulfillment of every vision. [SUP]24 [/SUP]For there will no longer be any false vision or flattering divination within the house of Israel. [SUP]25 [/SUP]For I the Lord will speak, and whatever word I speak will be performed. It will no longer be delayed, for in your days, O rebellious house, I will speak the word and perform it,” declares the Lord God.’”
[SUP]26 [/SUP]Furthermore, the word of the Lord came to me, saying, [SUP]27 [/SUP]“Son of man, behold, the house of Israel is saying, ‘The vision that he sees is for many years from now, and he prophesies of times far off.’ [SUP]28 [/SUP]Therefore say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord God, “None of My words will be delayed any longer. Whatever word I speak will be performed,”’” declares the Lord God.
[SUP]26 [/SUP]Furthermore, the word of the Lord came to me, saying, [SUP]27 [/SUP]“Son of man, behold, the house of Israel is saying, ‘The vision that he sees is for many years from now, and he prophesies of times far off.’ [SUP]28 [/SUP]Therefore say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord God, “None of My words will be delayed any longer. Whatever word I speak will be performed,”’” declares the Lord God.