Did Jesus take the punishment for our sins?

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Webers.Home

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May 28, 2018
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#43
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FAQ: How is it not a miscarriage of justice to allow folks to circumvent their
responsibility simply by believing Jesus died for their sins and rose again?

REPLY: God-- in some mysterious way that has thus far eluded my sense of
fair play --accounts Christ's followers as joint principals with him in his
crucifixion.

Rom 6:3 . . Don't you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ
Jesus were baptized into his death?

Rom 6:8 . . We died with Christ,

Gal 2:20 . . I am crucified with Christ

And that's the way God much prefers sinners to face the wrath of God. The
default alternative is the great white throne event depicted at Rev 20:11-15
where those who fail to be accounted crucified with Christ will face the wrath
of God via a mode of death akin to a foundry worker falling into a kettle of
molten iron.

FAQ: How would someone go about becoming a joint principal in Jesus'
crucifixion?

REPLY: Find a quiet moment. Cover your face with your hands for a sense of
privacy and simply speak with God saying, in so many words:

"God, I'm a sinner with a lot to answer for. I would like to be accounted
crucified with your son if I may. Thank You."
_
 
May 17, 2023
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#44
When Jesus was on the cross (and maybe before) did He take the punishment for our sins?
Yes, it is the clear teaching of the Bible that Jesus took the punishment for our sins.

That is what "propitiation" means (Romans 3:25, 1 John 2:2, 1 John 4:10).

Also, read Isaiah 53.
 

Needevidence

Active member
Mar 15, 2023
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#45
In the scriptures it's written about Jesus in Isaiah 53: 1 Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed? 2 For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him. 3 He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not. 4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted. 5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed. 6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all. 7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth. 8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.

10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand. 11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities. 12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

Let's go to end because Jesus says in John 19: 28 After this, Jesus knowing that all things were now accomplished, that the scripture might be fulfilled, saith, I thirst. 29 Now there was set a vessel full of vinegar: and they filled a spunge with vinegar, and put it upon hyssop, and put it to his mouth. 30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

So if you can understand these scriptures and put these verses together, you should get your answer.
I had a discussion with an atheist who pointed the following (how would you address this);

1) 53:5 But he was wounded - not killed
2) 9 And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death - was in a grave by himself not with others
3) 10 - .....he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, ....... - did not see his seed
 
May 10, 2023
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#46
what does this proove ?

Does this prove Jesus was punished for our sins ?.

The wages for sin is death and that still stands for unbelievers.


If Jesus took the punishment for sin, then your going to have show exactly that context.

Again the only verse I can find is Jesus suffered for our sins.

Punishment Is different to suffering.
If you commit a crime but I volunteer to do the time for you, I am not being punished, but I am suffering. A penalty (punishment) for the crime is implemented and justice is served.
 

RaceRunner

Well-known member
Oct 13, 2022
1,576
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#47
If you commit a crime but I volunteer to do the time for you, I am not being punished, but I am suffering. A penalty (punishment) for the crime is implemented and justice is served.
It is impossible for anyone to volunteer to do the time for someone else's crime.
 

Fundaamental

Well-known member
Mar 17, 2023
3,289
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#48
If you commit a crime but I volunteer to do the time for you, I am not being punished, but I am suffering. A penalty (punishment) for the crime is implemented and justice is served.
Come on snacker seariously,

Jesus died for our sins means Jesus gave his life for our sins, so we could have a chance.

The reason Jesus died for our sins was so a new incorruptible seed could be born via Jesus beating sin in the flesh, to which that seed could be passed via being blessed with the fruits of the holy spirit.

This was victory not punishment.
The father gave his son for this reason, not because he knew he would be punished or that he knew he would suffer.

Jesus was not sent to suffer for our sins or be punished for them, his father sent him for victory.

And the victory is for those who repent in Jesus name.

Yes he suffered yes he bore the sin's of the world upon his mighty shoulders, but that's because he could and can, as he is the mighty as the father to 😊 Jesus will just banish sins into the sea of tranquility 😊
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
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#49
Come on snacker seariously,

Jesus died for our sins means Jesus gave his life for our sins, so we could have a chance.

The reason Jesus died for our sins was so a new incorruptible seed could be born via Jesus beating sin in the flesh, to which that seed could be passed via being blessed with the fruits of the holy spirit.

This was victory not punishment.
The father gave his son for this reason, not because he knew he would be punished or that he knew he would suffer.

Jesus was not sent to suffer for our sins or be punished for them, his father sent him for victory.

And the victory is for those who repent in Jesus name.

Yes he suffered yes he bore the sin's of the world upon his mighty shoulders, but that's because he could and can, as he is the mighty as the father to 😊 Jesus will just banish sins into the sea of tranquility 😊
You should read Isaiah 53. The end does tell of unparalleled exaltation. But the rest speaks of unrivaled humiliation. That humiliation took the form of lowliness in position, suffering in life, and suffering in death. There is no exaltation without the severe humiliation. He was a man of sorrows.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
13,049
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#50
[
You should read Isaiah 53. The end does tell of unparalleled exaltation. But the rest speaks of unrivaled humiliation. That humiliation took the form of lowliness in position, suffering in life, and suffering in death. There is no exaltation without the severe humiliation. He was a man of sorrows.
Mayes the idea is Jesus carried all our iniquity he became like us one of us n order to save us

Because man inows siffering and sorrow Jesus partook

“Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham. Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people. For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭2:14, 16-18‬ ‭KJV‬‬

in the Old Testament it is determined that as god looks throughout all the world he find no man worthy to intercede on mans behalf

his answer to this vexing conundrum was that he would become a man worthy and intercede for us in order that he and try ally become a man he had to lay down his glory in order to accomplish salvstion for us and then he returned to his original glory before he became a man

The humility and suffering was the humanity of Christ revealing itself

“Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: but made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: and being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. ( that’s what we are called to do humble ourselves and become obedient )

Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.”
‭‭Philippians‬ ‭2:5-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

God looked from heaven and saw us without any hope of salvstion no intercessor to save us and so he put on his ferments and helmet his cloak and became one of us showing man’s need to humble himself before God so God and lift us up

alike Jesus we’re called to humble ourselves and promised God will lift us up if we do

“Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded. Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.”
‭‭James‬ ‭4:7-8, 10‬ ‭KJV‬‬
 
May 10, 2023
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#51
It is impossible for anyone to volunteer to do the time for someone else's crime.
Think outside the American box. Not only is it possible, it’s done all the time in certain countries. Rich people pay poor people to do time for them; and it’s legal.
 
May 10, 2023
169
71
28
#52
Come on snacker seariously,

Jesus died for our sins means Jesus gave his life for our sins, so we could have a chance.

The reason Jesus died for our sins was so a new incorruptible seed could be born via Jesus beating sin in the flesh, to which that seed could be passed via being blessed with the fruits of the holy spirit.

This was victory not punishment.
The father gave his son for this reason, not because he knew he would be punished or that he knew he would suffer.

Jesus was not sent to suffer for our sins or be punished for them, his father sent him for victory.

And the victory is for those who repent in Jesus name.

Yes he suffered yes he bore the sin's of the world upon his mighty shoulders, but that's because he could and can, as he is the mighty as the father to 😊 Jesus will just banish sins into the sea of tranquility 😊
Semantics
 

RaceRunner

Well-known member
Oct 13, 2022
1,576
289
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#53
Think outside the American box. Not only is it possible, it’s done all the time in certain countries. Rich people pay poor people to do time for them; and it’s legal.
Everyone who dies in choosing heresy goes to hell; Jesus Christ did not die on the cross for heresy.
 

RaceRunner

Well-known member
Oct 13, 2022
1,576
289
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#55
Does the blood of Christ justify heresey?

NO!
 

RaceRunner

Well-known member
Oct 13, 2022
1,576
289
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#57
The ones who are choosing to believe Christ justifies heresy are the ones who are being heretical.
 

RaceRunner

Well-known member
Oct 13, 2022
1,576
289
83
#59
And who are they? Name them.
There are more than 7,000,000,000 people on this earth; I am referring to those who are choosing to believe Christ justifies heresy.

Do you believe Christ justifies heresy; Are you one of them?
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
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#60
There are more than 7,000,000,000 people on this earth. I am referring to choosing to believe Christ justifies heresy.

Do you believe Christ justifies heresy; Are you one of them?
What heresy are you referring to?