Did the Lord want the nations to hear what He told Israel?

[Blik]

You cannot learn from history without having to follow what they did?

Very true, but with this learning from this history, we need to know if it applies to us, and if it does, how does it apply. I think the history is for all of us equally and we can learn from it best when we see it as a general history, without the rigid boundaries of for the Jews only, or for the gentiles only. But only if that is the true picture of that history. Many say I am wrong, so we need to search the word.

 

[Guojing]

Very true, but with this learning from this history, we need to know if it applies to us, and if it does, how does it apply. I think the history is for all of us equally and we can learn from it best when we see it as a general history, without the rigid boundaries of for the Jews only, or for the gentiles only. But only if that is the true picture of that history. Many say I am wrong, so we need to search the word.

For me, its clear cut, God raised Paul specifically to reach out to us gentiles.

Just follow what Paul wrote to us in Romans to Philemon

 

[posthuman]

For me, its clear cut, God raised Paul specifically to reach out to us gentiles.

Just follow what Paul wrote to us in Romans to Philemon

isn't a bit weird to think the vast majority of scripture is superfluous information, that, while it may be of some scholarly interest, has no practical use or significant intent?

on the other hand maybe Jesus is correct; maybe it all testifies of Him.

 

[Guojing]

isn't a bit weird to think the vast majority of scripture is superfluous information, that, while it may be of some scholarly interest, has no practical use or significant intent?

on the other hand maybe Jesus is correct; maybe it all testifies of Him.

I find Jesus's teaching of money handling in the 4 gospels very useful, for example, and certainly not superfluous. Likewise James teaching on controlling our tongues is most useful.

All scripture is useful for learning, as long as one rightly divide the word of truth, according to 2 Tim 2:15

 

[Blik]

I find Jesus's teaching of money handling in the 4 gospels very useful, for example, and certainly not superfluous. Likewise James teaching on controlling our tongues is most useful.

All scripture is useful for learning, as long as one rightly divide the word of truth, according to 2 Tim 2:15

I agree! It seems to me our physical world is only a temporary world and if we think it is the only reality we are not truly living with the facts of life. There is an eternal world that the Lord tries to make us understand that has lasting reality.

One of the differences in this eternal world and our physical one is in that word "eternal". Scripture seems to tell us that in the eternal world time is different from how we think of it, things simply are, rather than happening one after the next.

 

[soberxp]

Did the Lord want the nations to hear what He told Israel?
Yes,of crouse.
Isn't the Bible finished through Israel?
God gave us birth through Israel as if we were in the womb,indeed.
Although Israel has lost its home for a long time, the word of God is still conveyed to us through Israel in the past
Even the war, economy, energy and other issues in modern society will make you focus on Israel on the eatrh map.

 

[posthuman]

All scripture is useful for learning, as long as one rightly divide the word of truth, according to 2 Tim 2:15

I believe this is referring to John 5:39, that all scripture is rightly understood as testifying of the work and person Jesus Christ, not that nothing before Acts 13 is material to us.

A proof of this is Galatians 4 — that Genesis 16 is not just some historical anecdote but direct revelation of God and unless Christ is understood to be the meaning of it, we have not comprehend the scripture.
The law is the same. Unless we see Jesus, we do not have light and are in darkness.

 

[Magenta]

There is absolutely no question what so ever that God spoke to Israel as the caretakers of his word. That is WELL established through scripture. The question is this: Did the Lord require the nations to not listen to anything the Lord told Israel? That is what so many of todays Christians are saying, and I don't think that was a requirement the Lord gave mankind at all. There is no scripture that backs this, I think it is an error conclusion.

If we weren't to hear anything the Lord told Israel, if it was something that applied ONLY to Israel, then the Lord would not have given us His word with these words included. Israel would have a separate bible.

You have a problem with exaggeration. Exaggeration is dishonesty.

 

[Dino246]

When God said the nation he established would bless all other nations, scripture does not say that means only that Christ would be born of them. You are limiting God by limiting the blessings.

I'm not limiting anything; rather, I'm accept the limits that Scripture establishes.

You are discounting every scripture that tells of God's care and love for the nations saying they are not evidence----what is your idea then of what they are evidence of?

Please provide the evidence, and then we can discuss what it means.

You are also limiting the "law". God is spirit, the law is of God. The law is not some words written in stone on Mt Sinai.

Really? Then what is the Law? Bear in mind that we are discussing the Law given by God through Moses to Israel. Don't conflate it with a bunch of other laws.

 

[Guojing]

I believe this is referring to John 5:39, that all scripture is rightly understood as testifying of the work and person Jesus Christ, not that nothing before Acts 13 is material to us.

A proof of this is Galatians 4 — that Genesis 16 is not just some historical anecdote but direct revelation of God and unless Christ is understood to be the meaning of it, we have not comprehend the scripture.
The law is the same. Unless we see Jesus, we do not have light and are in darkness.

You can see Jesus, according to the mystery (Romans 16:25) or according to prophecy.

That is what Paul meant when he talks about rightly dividing.

 

[posthuman]

You can see Jesus, according to the mystery (Romans 16:25) or according to prophecy.

That is what Paul meant when he talks about rightly dividing.

Now that it's been revealed we ought to be able to go back and see it hidden in all these things. Galatians 4 is an example for us in this regard.

That is - now that He has revealed Himself to us, we should look for Him in all the law and the prophets, because He's there, and He is life, and He is the primary intent of all these things being recorded. In this light, these things are no less relevant than any epistle from Paul - does he not cite them in every letter?

 

[Magenta]

isn't a bit weird to think the vast majority of scripture is superfluous information, that,
while it may be of some scholarly interest, has no practical use or significant intent?

on the other hand maybe Jesus is correct; maybe it all testifies of Him.

I am working on a panel for that

 

[crossnote]

We who believe are Israel.

Nothing like a Replacement Theologian.

 

[Blik]

You have a problem with exaggeration. Exaggeration is dishonesty.

I find that you are incapable of discussing scripture. I see your aim, as you have stated, is only to find something you can twist to say I accuse you with false accusations or that I am against scripture. The Lord tells us not to participate in such. I have you on ignore.

 

[Magenta]

I find that you are incapable of discussing scripture. I see your aim, as you have stated, is only to find something you can twist to say I accuse you with false accusations or that I am against scripture. The Lord tells us not to participate in such. I have you on ignore.

I have said no such thing, so there is yet another false accusation.

It is not the only one in that post, either!

Why do you persist in such?

 

[Blackpowderduelist]

You lack a great deal of understanding what others are saying to you. The blessing to the world through Abraham was, is, and always will be Jesus, to all who accept the shedding of His righteous blood for the propitiation of their sins, that they may be reconciled to God and attain to life ever after. It was God's plan from before the foundation of the world. It is not limiting God in any way to state the truth of this matter...

What? You mean the entire old testament is also about Jesus?

 

[Blackpowderduelist]

Nothing like a Replacement Theologian.

It's not replacement to understand the truth.
But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel, and not all are children of Abraham because they are his offspring, but “Through Isaac shall your offspring be named.” This means that it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but the children of the promise are counted as offspring.
Romans 9:6‭-‬8 ESV
https://bible.com/bible/59/rom.9.6-8.ESV

 

[ForestGreenCook]

The nation of Israel will be the light of all nations.
Many look at israel even today as a nation that God has rejected. That because of the rejection of the Christ God has left them and placed the church in its stead.
They then try to say because of the many tribulations Israel has gone through that it is the Lord punishing them.
They then say that jesus being the final and altimate sacrifice that there is no need for Israel and its temple to be built.
These arguments sound convincing and conclusive but couldnt be more further from the truth.

Israel is one of the greatest of Gods creations. It is Gods footprint in history for all to see.
No other nation in the world has withstood the test of time and tribulation such as Israel has.
Does not God chasten the son he loves?
For if God judged israel and rejected him then surely they would not exist today.
Look at noahs flood. Look at sodom, ever meet a edimite or any of the ites?
Are we as the church to say we are without sin before the Lord.
Gods grace is great and enduring, his power is un matched, his love is forever, his word is his bond. His ways are not our ways.
All have sinned and come short of the glory of God.
We serve a holy...holy...holy....God.
If we who has no skin in the bloodline and family of God can be saved and born again through a jewish messiah then Israel who was and is Gods chosen people can be saved.
For he has scattered them, brought them back, and he will redeem them....see if it is so.

All Israel is not of Israel, Rom 9:6 God changed Jacob's name to be no more called Jacob, but to be called Israel, Gen 28:33. Jacob/Israel is representative of God's elect, Rom 9:11.

Most of the time Israel is mentioned in the scriptures it has reference to Jacob as Israel, God's elect, and not to the nation of Israel.

 

[Magenta]

What? You mean the entire old testament is also about Jesus?

That is certainly one view people take, and Jesus was foretold as early as Genesis 3:15. The OT is very much a purview of man's relationship with God (and vice versa ), and God's provisions for humanity, liberally sprinkled with prophecies concerning Jesus Christ, and warnings to humanity of what would befall them should they refuse to live according to Godly principles. Overall, the OT is very rich reading

 

[ForestGreenCook]

In less than three more years I will have lived for a 100 years, so I have watched the world change its attitude toward life. The world I was born in would not have understood the world of today, and what you have written about the Jews could not have been written then.

I think this understanding will grow. It seems to me that there is less and less understanding of the lord today, but the remnant is stronger and wiser. The Jews, and how the Lord works with them seems to be the pivotal point. For almost 2,000 years since the book of Revelation prophesied, there was little of that prophecy to be seen in the world. Then in the 40's all began to develop until now it is evident the Jews as a nation was preserved by the Lord all this time, and we see it in prophecy coming true.[/QUOTE