Dietary Law?

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Dietary Law: Yes or No?

  • Yes, Law is still in place

    Votes: 6 37.5%
  • No, I can eat what I want

    Votes: 10 62.5%

  • Total voters
    16
  • Poll closed .

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
30,426
6,653
113
I know it hard to find non-contaminated food these days, but it is out there! It the "legal" regulation that allow there food providers to spray all this stuff on the food that needs to change.

Have you seen the "pink slime" and the bacterial "spray" they spray on meat to kill all the way worse bacteria from the anti-biotic resistant bacteria and such....

I HONESTLY feel like He does not want me to eat that stuff....

Id like to raise my own lambs or chickens, but im a city dweller....
then do not eat it............Scripture says something like "if for you it is a sin, then it is a sin..........."

Like I said, I give thanks for whatever I eat, and trust God to "bless that food to the nourishment of my body" in the Name of Christ Jesus...........

We must follow how we are led..........and, while I might poke fun, I am ONLY jesting.........do as you are led to do!

God bless
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
0
then do not eat it............Scripture says something like "if for you it is a sin, then it is a sin..........."

Like I said, I give thanks for whatever I eat, and trust God to "bless that food to the nourishment of my body" in the Name of Christ Jesus...........

We must follow how we are led..........and, while I might poke fun, I am ONLY jesting.........do as you are led to do!

God bless
NP, I speak openly, please do not think I took offense, again I speak openly, and im not calling some one evil because they eat gmos or whatever, seeing as how He gave guide lines, and even talked about "as in the days of noah" genetic tampering? GMOs are not something I want to eat, and the kill fertility by the 3rd generation....

may Yah bless you too!
 
Sep 16, 2014
1,666
100
48
I know it hard to find non-contaminated food these days, but it is out there! It the "legal" regulation that allow there food providers to spray all this stuff on the food that needs to change.

Have you seen the "pink slime" and the bacterial "spray" they spray on meat to kill all the way worse bacteria from the anti-biotic resistant bacteria and such....

I HONESTLY feel like He does not want me to eat that stuff....

Id like to raise my own lambs or chickens, but im a city dweller....
I agree with that! But, even all that added bacteria is killed with heat. We cook everything well done, usually in a slow cooker all day. I loved rare to medium rare steaks over a charcoal grill, but out of sensible caution I cook more thoroughly now, eating out far less often. We raised free range chickens for a lot of years, finding them much tastier, and have one meat market selling them raised locally.

I shop Non-GMO organic, buying bread from a local bakery that uses traditional grains, making a loaf of bread twice the usual price. The genetically modified grains were created to allow resistance to Round-Up herbicide, etc.,which is carcinogenic. It's OK, we have learned bread tends to fatten us too much, so we cut back. We buy as much locally grown organic produce as possible, including meat, and are member of a local farmers coop that guarantees us access to local produce in season. If we were still running a large garden we'd still have trading rights, cash not involved. Muching and hand-pulling weeds is just oo much work for a guy needing to eat very little, using the Plate Method. Currently I practice going a bit hungry all day, which burns fat, once I realized I should not fear a lack of food supply in case of some disaster. I refuse to "eat up" in preparation. I have a tub of Quinoa packs and other survival foods and bottled water for an emergency.
Now I can go to a buffet restaurant and eat one reasonable plate and be more than satisfied. I make it fine on one handful of a balanced diet twice a day and stay healthy and energized.
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
0
I agree with that! But, even all that added bacteria is killed with heat. We cook everything well done, usually in a slow cooker all day. I loved rare to medium rare steaks over a charcoal grill, but out of sensible caution I cook more thoroughly now, eating out far less often. We raised free range chickens for a lot of years, finding them much tastier, and have one meat market selling them raised locally.

I shop Non-GMO organic, buying bread from a local bakery that uses traditional grains, making a loaf of bread twice the usual price. The genetically modified grains were created to allow resistance to Round-Up herbicide, etc.,which is carcinogenic. It's OK, we have learned bread tends to fatten us too much, so we cut back. We buy as much locally grown organic produce as possible, including meat, and are member of a local farmers coop that guarantees us access to local produce in season. If we were still running a large garden we'd still have trading rights, cash not involved. Muching and hand-pulling weeds is just oo much work for a guy needing to eat very little, using the Plate Method. Currently I practice going a bit hungry all day, which burns fat, once I realized I should not fear a lack of food supply in case of some disaster. I refuse to "eat up" in preparation. I have a tub of Quinoa packs and other survival foods and bottled water for an emergency.
Now I can go to a buffet restaurant and eat one reasonable plate and be more than satisfied. I make it fine on one handful of a balanced diet twice a day and stay healthy and energized.
Im on board with 99% of that, I used to eat anything, years ago I got serious about athletics and "refined" my diet and felt so much better, this tend has continued and I take joy in eating tasty healthy food now, so praise Yah we have that in common!

He created so much awesome tasty food!



LOOK A FLYING STEAK!!!!!!
 
C

CRC

Guest
Moses was a great leader; he was a legislator, a prophet, a miracle worker, a teacher, and a judge. He was also a mediator, the only prophet who had mediated a covenant between God and man (in this case, the nation of Israel). A prophet truly like him would have to do something similar. Does this mean that God intended that the Law covenant be superseded by another covenant? Yes, it does. Through the prophet Jeremiah, God clearly stated his intention to conclude a new covenant. A new covenant would require a new mediator. Only someone like Moses could fit the requirements for such an assignment.
It was about 900 years after Moses that Jeremiah conveyed to the nation of Israel God’s words: “See, a time is coming—declares the LORD—when I will make a new covenant with the House of Israel and the House of Judah. It will not be like the covenant I made with their fathers, when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, a covenant which they broke, . . .—declares the LORD. But such is the covenant I will make with the House of Israel after these days . . . I will forgive their iniquities, and remember their sins no more.”—Jeremiah 31:31-34. This New Covenant would not have the same dietary regulations as the Mosaic Law Covenant. Whereas adherence to a specific dietary code would not be required at the same time it would not be forbidden either. Each Christian in this New Covenant would be free choose their own diet.
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
0
new covenant would require a new mediator.
Matt 5:18, "For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

Revelation 21:1-2, "And I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no more sea. And I, Yahchanan, saw the holy city, Yahweh Shammah, coming down from Yahweh out of heaven, prepared as brides adorned for their husbands. And I heard a great voice out of heaven, saying: Behold, the tabernacle of Yahweh is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they will be His people, and Yahweh Himself will be with them, and be their Father.


Hebrews 7:11-12, "Now if perfection had been attainable through the Levitical priesthood (for under it the people received the law), what further need would there have been for another priest to arise after the order of Melchizedek, rather than one named after the order of Aaron? For the priesthood being changed(transformation), there is made of necessity a change(transformation) also of the law."

3331 - metathesis - transformation

Psalm 89:26-37, "He will call out to Me; You are my Father, O Yahweh! You are the Rock of my salvation! And I will make Him My firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth. My mercy I will keep for Him forever and My covenant will stand fast with Him. And I will establish his Seed forever, and his throne will be as the days of heaven. Should his children forsake My Law, and refuse to walk in My judgments; Should they profane My statutes, and fail to keep My commandments; Then I will punish their transgression with the rod, and their iniquity with lashes from the whip. Nevertheless, My lovingkindness I will not utterly withdraw from him, nor will I ever betray My faithfulness. My covenant I will not break, nor will I change what that has gone out of My lips. Once for all, I have vowed by My holiness--I cannot lie, and I say to David: His Seed will endure forever, and his throne will endure before Me like the sun. His throne will be established forever like the moon: the faithful witness in the sky."


My covenant will stand fast with Him; 3331 - metathesis - transformation


My covenant I will not break, nor will I change what that has gone out of My lips. Once for all, I have vowed by My holiness--I cannot lie; 3331 - metathesis - transformation

Isayah 59:15-21, "Yes, truth is suppressed; and he who departs from evil is accounted as mad. Yahweh saw this, and it displeased Him that there was no justice. But He saw no man, and wondered that there was no intercessor. Therefore His own arm brought salvation for Him, and His own righteousness, it sustained Him. For He put on righteousness as a breastplate, with a helmet of salvation on His head; He put on the garments of vengeance for clothing, and He wrapped Himself with zeal like a tallit. According to their deeds, accordingly He will repay--fury to His adversaries, recompense to His enemies; to the islands; nations, He will repay recompense. So they will reverence the Name of Yahweh from the west and His glory from the rising of the sun; when our enemies will come in like a flood, the Spirit of Yahweh will lift up a standard against them; The Redeemer will depart from Zion for those of Yaaqob who repent of their sins! declares Yahweh. As for Me, this is My covenant with them, says Yahweh: My Spirit which is upon you, namely My Words which I have put in your mouth; they will not depart from your mouth, nor from the mouth of your seed, nor from the mouth of your seed's seed, says Yahweh: from this time and forevermore."

"wondered that there was no intercessor"

Hebrews 7:11-12, "Now if perfection had been attainable through the Levitical priesthood (for under it the people received the law), what further need would there have been for another priest to arise after the order of Melchizedek, rather than one named after the order of Aaron? For the priesthood being changed(transformation), there is made of necessity a change(transformation) also of the law."

3331 - metathesis - transformation

"wondered that there was no intercessor"

1 Timothy 2:5, "For One is Yahweh; and One Mediator between Yahweh and men: the Man, Yahshua Messiah."

1 Timothy 2:5, "For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man[a] Christ Jesus."

Therefore His own arm brought salvation for Him, and His own righteousness"

1 John (Yahchanan) 4:10. "In this is love: Not that we loved Yahweh, but that He loved us, and sent His Son to be the sacrifice of atonement for our sins."

"He wrapped Himself with zeal like a tallit. According to their deeds, accordingly He will repay--fury to His adversaries, recompense to His enemies; to the islands; nations, He will repay recompense"

Revelation 19:13-15:, "And He was wrapped in a tallit dipped in blood, and the Name of Him is called: Yahshua--The Salvation of Yahweh. And the armies in heaven clothed in fine linen, white and clean, followed Him upon white horses, And out of His mouth goes a sharp, two-edged sword, that with it He should strike the nations; and He will rule over them with a rod of iron; and He treads the wine press of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty Yahweh."

Matt 5:18, "For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

Revelation 21:1-2, "And I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no more sea. And I, Yahchanan, saw the holy city, Yahweh Shammah, coming down from Yahweh out of heaven, prepared as brides adorned for their husbands. And I heard a great voice out of heaven, saying: Behold, the tabernacle of Yahweh is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they will be His people, and Yahweh Himself will be with them, and be their Father.
 
Sep 16, 2014
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100
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Matt 5:18, "For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

Matt 5:18, "For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

Revelation 21:1-2, "And I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no more sea. And I, Yahchanan, saw the holy city, Yahweh Shammah, coming down from Yahweh out of heaven, prepared as brides adorned for their husbands. And I heard a great voice out of heaven, saying: Behold, the tabernacle of Yahweh is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they will be His people, and Yahweh Himself will be with them, and be their Father.
We Christians agree that Jesus has accomplished all that already by his own blood. He need not add one more work. Meanwhile, yes, the law remains intact, but by the standard of Jesus' blood shed, there is nothing left for satisfaction of the law of Moses. If not, then the cross of Jesus was but some intermediate factor depending upon Moses. All of Moses led up to Jesus, the Savior, by satisfying the need for a savior. Once delivered from the hold of sin by the savior, why need the buildup to that to remain as a religion? The build-up was done at the cross.

The law was perfected by the gospel of Christ Jesus. There is nothing left to look forward to that is better. Yes, the law of Moses is still in print, well known, but a better covenant is available to believers on Jesus Christ.
 
Sep 16, 2014
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The law of Moses is still there until the very end. Nothing of it has gone away, to the demise of sinners rejecting the offer from God in the gospel of Christ, His Son. It is abolished, however, in Christ to the believers in the blood of Jesus. The Jews have not abolished the law of Moses, still waiting for their expected Messiah. Well, he will come as promised, again.
 
Sep 16, 2014
1,666
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Moses was a great leader; he was a legislator, a prophet, a miracle worker, a teacher, and a judge. He was also a mediator, the only prophet who had mediated a covenant between God and man (in this case, the nation of Israel). A prophet truly like him would have to do something similar. Does this mean that God intended that the Law covenant be superseded by another covenant? Yes, it does. Through the prophet Jeremiah, God clearly stated his intention to conclude a new covenant. A new covenant would require a new mediator. Only someone like Moses could fit the requirements for such an assignment.
It was about 900 years after Moses that Jeremiah conveyed to the nation of Israel God’s words: “See, a time is coming—declares the LORD—when I will make a new covenant with the House of Israel and the House of Judah. It will not be like the covenant I made with their fathers, when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, a covenant which they broke, . . .—declares the LORD. But such is the covenant I will make with the House of Israel after these days . . . I will forgive their iniquities, and remember their sins no more.”—Jeremiah 31:31-34. This New Covenant would not have the same dietary regulations as the Mosaic Law Covenant. Whereas adherence to a specific dietary code would not be required at the same time it would not be forbidden either. Each Christian in this New Covenant would be free choose their own diet.
Yes, a new covenant with the House of Israel. But they didn't come on board for it, choosing rather to be evicted from all their blessings to hold onto the old covenant!. So it passed to the Gentiles, left open to some Jews. For each Jew pruned off the Vine, another Gentile believer has an opening.

You made a good observation.
 
Sep 16, 2014
1,666
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then do not eat it............Scripture says something like "if for you it is a sin, then it is a sin..........."

Like I said, I give thanks for whatever I eat, and trust God to "bless that food to the nourishment of my body" in the Name of Christ Jesus...........

We must follow how we are led..........and, while I might poke fun, I am ONLY jesting.........do as you are led to do!

God bless
I agree. I had garden veges and what fellow truck farmers had in common for decades. Our family relished fried and broiled okra, fried "poke salad" with bacon and eggs, tomatoes, potatoes, spinach, turnips, onions, cucumbers, bell peppers, blueberries, fruit trees, the whole mess expected on a deep south table. Now I've learned some of those bountiful blessings contributed to the growth of many kidney stones during those decades. So I adjusted my diet and eradicated the stone problem. The Lord got through to me by way of dieticians, after I knew my arms itched violently from picking okra. I suspected it, but refused to acknowledge that until confirmed by experts who didn't know the relish of fried or broiled okra, spinach, and the like. Oh, had I been more sensitive to the Holy Spirit all those suffering years!
 
O

oldthennew

Guest
I have stop eating pork for several years now because pork is harsh on the body. A lady told me that her children stated to her the following: Each time they ate pork that headaches will appear and that is why folks have high blood pressure. Stop feeding your children, family swine because doctors have been telling folks for years how deadly is swine/pork to our bodies. Process food is horrible because fast food will kill you and food industry is corrupt to the core. I have changed my diet now I am healthier. Changes in my life are the following:
=======================================================

Auphira,

your testimony and your progress are amazing, my husband and I rejoice :) ;)with you -
may your success continue, you are to be highly commended for your efforts, it appears
that your Spiritual Temple is aligning with your physical, as the Bible teaches us, we are a
work in progress and the two must always go hand-and-hand for the glory and witness of God.

we have also been blind victims of the world's nutritional system, not giving a care or a thought
for what we put in our mouths or how it would affect us - and as a result were in poor health
for so long, we didn't have a clue or a care back then -
but now after being convicted many years ago when the Holy Spirit showed us that are bodies
were not our own, we began an amazing journey and today our aging temples are healthy and
resilient and we can still do many of the activities that we did when we were much younger.
 
Sep 16, 2014
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man you twist Scripture something crazy...

as to the law, a Pharisee

rubbish (dung)

Pharisee = traditions of the elders....

Mattithyah 15:2-3, "Why do Your disciples transgress the traditions of the elders? For they do not wash their hands when they eat. But He answered, and said to them: And why do you transgress the Laws of Yahweh by your traditions?"

5circumcised on the eighth day, of the people of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews; as to the law, a Pharisee; 6as to zeal, a persecutor of the church; as to righteousness under the law,c blameless. 7But whatever gain I had, I counted as loss for the sake of Christ. 8Indeed, I count everything as loss because of the surpassing worth of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord. For his sake I have suffered the loss of all things and count them as rubbish, in order that I may gain Christ 9and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which comes through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God that depends on faith— 10that I may know him and the power of his resurrection, and may share his sufferings, becoming like him in his death, 11that by any means possible I may attain the resurrection from the dead.
We'll see who twisted what....Let's get this fixed too. I see you must have missed post #369 which has Moses excusing the people for eating whatever they wanted after crossing the Jordan, until they lived in safety from their enemies (Deu 12). But this post is important too.
First, I'll list a key verse you didn't consider.
Philippians 3:4 (KJV) [SUP]4 [/SUP] Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more:


What followed was a very respectable list of values any Jew in Israel would appreciate. But Paul counted being circumcised, of the house of Benjamin, Hebrew of Hebrews, a Pharisee as concerns the law, zeal, etc as dung after knowing Christ. Before knowing Jesus his credentials were treasures to Jews, especially persecuting Christians who were seen as a direct threat to their nation and religion. When people couldn't get legal answers from reading Moses, they sought answers from the lawyers (Pharisees). We do the same, using lawyers to decipher the Constitution. Some were reasonable men like Nicodemus, and in time many Pharisees and priests believed. Many used their take on the law to attack Jesus, being blind to the gospel. While Paul was a practicing Pharisee he was obviously honored to be included.

He gave up (lost) his former life as an attorney, counting all those attributes as dung for the sake of Jesus, finding the much better. Being of the tribe of Benjamin wasn't bad, but that meant nothing to him as a Christian now.Being circumcised on the 8th day was not evil, but it meant nothing to him anymore, dung, including all of verses 5 & 6. Counted all for loss for Jesus.

Back to the Deu 12 again. A point from that has God approving eating unclean meat. He would not be evil to approve that while it was unhealthy. They knew how to cook meat safely. If they ate unclean meat they were unclean for purposes of worship. After the flood God told Noah to eat anything that moves, indicating the Lord didn't see anything unhealthy about unclean flesh for the next 1,377 years until Moses.

I think it is now a rational conclusion to be agreed upon that the dietary law is for Jews only (with exceptions), not Gentile Christians based on Deu 12, plus Acts 15's decision at Jerusalem, plus Noah's covenant, Peter's vision of the sheet, Paul's many references, ending the notion of Gentiles being required to follow the law, and it is obvious God didn't consider unclean flesh to be unhealthy. They had to drain the blood, cook it well. make sure all the blood soaked into the ground outside their gates.
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
0
We'll see who twisted what....Let's get this fixed too. I see you must have missed post #369 which has Moses excusing the people for eating whatever they wanted after crossing the Jordan, until they lived in safety from their enemies (Deu 12). But this post is important too.
First, I'll list a key verse you didn't consider.
Philippians 3:4 (KJV) [SUP]4 [/SUP] Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more:


What followed was a very respectable list of values any Jew in Israel would appreciate. But Paul counted being circumcised, of the house of Benjamin, Hebrew of Hebrews, a Pharisee as concerns the law, zeal, etc as dung after knowing Christ. Before knowing Jesus his credentials were treasures to Jews, especially persecuting Christians who were seen as a direct threat to their nation and religion. When people couldn't get legal answers from reading Moses, they sought answers from the lawyers (Pharisees). We do the same, using lawyers to decipher the Constitution. Some were reasonable men like Nicodemus, and in time many Pharisees and priests believed. Many used their take on the law to attack Jesus, being blind to the gospel. While Paul was a practicing Pharisee he was obviously honored to be included.

He gave up (lost) his former life as an attorney, counting all those attributes as dung for the sake of Jesus, finding the much better. Being of the tribe of Benjamin wasn't bad, but that meant nothing to him as a Christian now.Being circumcised on the 8th day was not evil, but it meant nothing to him anymore, dung, including all of verses 5 & 6. Counted all for loss for Jesus.

Back to the Deu 12 again. A point from that has God approving eating unclean meat. He would not be evil to approve that while it was unhealthy. They knew how to cook meat safely. If they ate unclean meat they were unclean for purposes of worship. After the flood God told Noah to eat anything that moves, indicating the Lord didn't see anything unhealthy about unclean flesh for the next 1,377 years until Moses.

I think it is now a rational conclusion to be agreed upon that the dietary law is for Jews only (with exceptions), not Gentile Christians based on Deu 12, plus Acts 15's decision at Jerusalem, plus Noah's covenant, Peter's vision of the sheet, Paul's many references, ending the notion of Gentiles being required to follow the law, and it is obvious God didn't consider unclean flesh to be unhealthy. They had to drain the blood, cook it well. make sure all the blood soaked into the ground outside their gates.
lol you dont know what pharisees did to the law do you?

they made 1,000s of man made regulations and called it "keeping the Law"

the Messiah explained how to keep the Law, and it had to do with listening to Yah and His Holy Spirit, and would be called in the world as true love, not the dung the pharisees invented.

please if you want to debate me on this, I ask that you speak upon the posts I made at the beginning of the thread, Acts 10, Mark 7, Matt 15, Timothy, Isayah 65-66 etc. unless those SCRIPTURES are addressed I cant think any different. just saying, not being rude, just explaining how I feel about what is written, but hey I would rather not debate this to be honest because it such a simple thing, and such a minor thing.
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
11,365
186
63
Moses was a great leader; he was a legislator, a prophet, a miracle worker, a teacher, and a judge. He was also a mediator, the only prophet who had mediated a covenant between God and man (in this case, the nation of Israel). A prophet truly like him would have to do something similar. Does this mean that God intended that the Law covenant be superseded by another covenant? Yes, it does. Through the prophet Jeremiah, God clearly stated his intention to conclude a new covenant. A new covenant would require a new mediator. Only someone like Moses could fit the requirements for such an assignment.
It was about 900 years after Moses that Jeremiah conveyed to the nation of Israel God’s words: “See, a time is coming—declares the LORD—when I will make a new covenant with the House of Israel and the House of Judah. It will not be like the covenant I made with their fathers, when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, a covenant which they broke, . . .—declares the LORD. But such is the covenant I will make with the House of Israel after these days . . . I will forgive their iniquities, and remember their sins no more.”—Jeremiah 31:31-34. This New Covenant would not have the same dietary regulations as the Mosaic Law Covenant. Whereas adherence to a specific dietary code would not be required at the same time it would not be forbidden either. Each Christian in this New Covenant would be free choose their own diet.
So in other words, Jesus Christ, the One who gave the Law to Moses, changed His mind?
 
Sep 16, 2014
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lol you dont know what pharisees did to the law do you?

they made 1,000s of man made regulations and called it "keeping the Law"
You've been misled concerning the Pharisees.
An interesting read is at BAR (Biblical Archaeology Review magazine) 9:04, Jul/Aug 2013

Biblical Views: The Pharisees—Good Guys with Bad Press by Roland Deines.


The people most criticizing them are the Torah Observant Judaizers who insist on making New Testament Christian theology too infected with Greek and Roman paganism to be trusted, so they seek to lead Christians back to the Jewishness of Jesus.

In Christ I died to the law, finding it valuable though to understand more fully why the New Covenant is better. Early churches around the known world were of Gentile believers who had no background in the Torah, rarely having any acces to a copy of it. They were saved by the preaching of the gospel as presented in the New Testament, and shielded from having to observe the Torah by decree in Acts 15.
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
0
You've been misled concerning the Pharisees. An interesting read is at BAR (Biblical Archaeology Review magazine) 9:04, Jul/Aug 2013

Biblical Views: The Pharisees—Good Guys with Bad Press by Roland Deines.


The people most criticizing them are the Torah Observant Judaizers who insist on making New Testament Christian theology too infected with Greek and Roman paganism to be trusted, so they seek to lead Christians back to the Jewishness of Jesus.

In Christ I died to the law, finding it valuable though to understand more fully why the New Covenant is better. Early churches around the known world were of Gentile believers who had no background in the Torah, rarely having any acces to a copy of it. They were saved by the preaching of the gospel as presented in the New Testament, and shielded from having to observe the Torah by decree in Acts 15.
oh yes Ive been misled about the pharisees... lol no I believe the Messiah and I have studied their works, they made their own law, Messiah shows this Himself;

Mattithyah 15:2-3, "Why do Your disciples transgress the traditions of the elders? For they do not wash their hands when they eat. But He answered, and said to them: And why do you transgress the Laws of Yahweh by your traditions?"

This is a very important topic that will never be taught at Church, but is vital if you want to FULLY understand Yahshua's encounters with the Pharisees. Thus some preachers take advantage of people ignorance on this topic and use Yahshua's words to witness against something Yahshua promoted insted of what He spoke against. Most people really do not know much if anything about the Pharisaical religion and errantly think it is based on the Holy Scriptures, it is not. They have 2 "Torahs" one written and one oral, the written is the first 5 books of the Scriptures and the oral is the Talmud. They say the Scriptures are incomprehensible without the Talmud. I want to clearly state I have no problem with the Jewish people, and this is in no way against Jews. This is to shed light on what the Pharisees really believed and taught that Yahshua had rebuked them for over and over.

Mattithyah 15:2-3, "Why do Your disciples transgress the traditions of the elders? For they do not wash their hands when they eat. But He answered, and said to them: And why do you transgress the Laws of Yahweh by your traditions?"

Yahchanan 15:22
If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not have had their sins revealed; but now they have no cloak, covering for, their sins.

Yahchanan 15:22-23
22 If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not have had their sins revealed; but now they have no cloak, covering for, their sins. 23 He who hates Me, also hates My Father.

This is from the Talmud, it is the story about the debate of Eliezer contracting ritual imourity from an OVEN. In the Talmud you will see over and over the confused non-sense that is of the Pharisees. I stand strongly against this evil book, however if one does a little study you will understand Yahshua's words in these encounters.

Talmud - Mas. Baba Metzia 59b

We learnt elsewhere: If he cut it into separate tiles, placing sand between each tile: R. Eliezer declared it clean, and the Sages declared it unclean; and this was the oven of ‘Aknai.1 Why [the oven of] ‘Aknai? — Said Rab Judah in Samuel's name: [It means] that they encompassed it with arguments2 as a snake, and proved it unclean. It has been taught: On that day R. Eliezer brought forward every imaginable argument ,3 but they did not accept them. Said he to them: ‘If the halachah agrees with me, let this carob-tree prove it!’ Thereupon the carob-tree was torn a hundred cubits out of its place — others affirm, four hundred cubits. ‘No proof can be brought from a carob-tree,’ they retorted. Again he said to them: ‘If the halachah agrees with me, let the stream of water prove it!’ Whereupon the stream of water flowed backwards — ‘No proof can be brought from a stream of water,’ they rejoined. Again he urged: ‘If the halachah agrees with me, let the walls of the schoolhouse prove it,’ whereupon the walls inclined to fall. But R. Joshua rebuked them, saying: ‘When scholars are engaged in a halachic dispute, what have ye to interfere?’ Hence they did not fall, in honour of R. Joshua, nor did they resume the upright, in honour of R. Eliezer; and they are still standing thus inclined. Again he said to them: ‘If the halachah agrees with me, let it be proved from Heaven!’ Whereupon a Heavenly Voice cried out: ‘Why do ye dispute with R. Eliezer, seeing that in all matters the halachah agrees with him!’ But R. Joshua arose and exclaimed: ‘It is not in heaven.’4 What did he mean by this? — Said R. Jeremiah: That the Torah had already been given at Mount Sinai; we pay no attention to a Heavenly Voice, because Thou hast long since written in the Torah at Mount Sinai, After the majority must one incline.5R. Nathan met Elijah6 and asked him: What did the Holy One, Blessed be He, do in that hour? — He laughed [with joy], he replied, saying, ‘My sons have defeated Me, My sons have defeated Me.’ It was said: On that day all objects which R. Eliezer had declared clean were brought and burnt in fire.7 Then they took a vote and excommunicated him.

Later we will factually see where the thought pattern behind words in red originated.

This next reading is the origin of the ban on the Name of the Most High: Yahweh

Talmud - Mas. Sotah 38a
Another [Baraitha] taught: ‘On this wise ye shall bless the children of Israel’ — with the use of
the Shem Hameforash.15 You say that it means with the Tetragrammaton; but perhaps that is not so and a substituted name was used!16 There is a text to say: So shall they put My name17 — My name which is unique to Me. It is possible to think that [the Shem Hameforash was also used] in places outside the Temple; but it is stated here, ‘So shall they put My name’ and elsewhere it is stated: To put His name there18 — as in this latter passage it denotes in the Temple so also in the former passage it denotes in the Temple. R. Joshiah says: [This deduction] is unnecessary; behold it states: In every place where I cause My name to be remembered I will come unto thee.19 Can it enter your mind that every place is intended?20 But the text must be transposed thus: In every place where I will come unto thee and bless thee will I cause My name to be remembered; and where will I come unto thee and bless thee? In the Temple; there, in the Temple, will I cause My name to be remembered. Another [Baraitha] teaches: ‘On this wise ye shall bless the children of Israel’ — I have here only the children of Israel; whence is it that proselytes, women and enfranchised slaves [are included]? There is a text to state, Ye shall say unto them21 — i.e., to all of them.

"but perhaps that is not so and a substituted name was used,"
No Scripture says anything like this at all, a Rabbi comes along and says, " "but perhaps that is not so," and after that Yahweh's Name is hidden. However it is not that FOOLISH and innocent, as it was on purpose that this was contrived:

Yeremyah 23:26-27, "How long will this be in the heart of the prophets who prophesy lies? Yes, they are prophets of the deceit of their own minds; Who devise; plan and scheme, to cause My people to forget My Name through their dreams, which they tell every man to his neighbor, just as their fathers have forgotten My Name for Baal"

The Name YHWH was removed at least 6,828 times and replaced with LORD or GOD. You can tell where it was because ALL the letters are capital where YHWH was. The Masorites added vowel points to the Hebrew manuscripts (not in the "J" writings," (Called J (Y) for it's use of YHWH), but in the next oldest, the "E" writings (for it's use of Elohim). The vowel points replaced Yahweh's Name with Adonal = Lord and Elohim = God(s).It is forbidden by Yahweh to hide His Name by the way. However as we seen in the Talmud, to the Rabbis this is of no effect: "we pay no attention to a Heavenly Voice." Then we come to modern times when this false practice is still used, I have a Bible that says, quote: "this tradition is still used".

Talmud - Mas. Yoma 39b
His brethren [that year] the priests forbore to mention the Ineffable Name in pronouncing the [priestly] blessing.4 Our Rabbis taught: During the last forty years before the destruction of the Temple the lot [‘For the Lord’] did not come up in the right hand; nor did the crimson-coloured strap become white;

Numbers 6:23-27, "Speak to Aaron and his sons, saying; This is how you are to bless the children of Israyl. Say to them; YAHWEH BLESS YOU AND KEEP YOU. YAHWEH MAKE HIS FACE SHINE UPON YOU AND BE MERCIFUL TO YOU. YAHWEH LIFT UP HIS COUNTENANCE UPON YOU, AND GIVE YOU PEACE. So they will put MY NAME on the children of Israyl, and I will bless them."

This is the Command that the "priests forbore", all supposedly because that "Rabbi" said, "but perhaps that is not so." Note "nor did the crimson-coloured strap become white," this was the sign that thier sins were forgiven. Also the Talmud RECORDS that after they killed Yahshua, from that time until the destruction of the House of Yahweh (Solomon's Temple) the crimson colored strap NEVER turned white again.

Now here is ONE of Yahshua's encounters with these evil men.

Mattithyah 15:1-20, "Then scribes and Pharisees from Yerusalem came to Yahshua, and said; Why do Your disciples transgress the traditions of the elders? For they do not wash their hands when they eat. But He answered, and said to them: And why do you transgress the Laws of Yahweh by your traditions? For Yahweh commanded, saying: Honor your father and your mother; and: He who curses his father or mother, let him be put to death. But you say; If anyone says to his father or mother; Whatever help you might have received from me is qorban; consecrated to Yahweh--So he does not dishonor father or mother by withholding it from them. In this way you have set aside the Law of Yahweh, for your own tradition! Hypocrites! Well did Isayah prophesy of you, saying: These people draw near to Me with their mouth and honor Me with their lips, but have removed their hearts far from Me. But in vain they do worship Me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men. And He called the multitude, and said to them: Hear and understand! It is not what goes into the mouth of a man that defiles a man; but that which comes out of the mouth, this defiles a man. Then His disciples came to Him, and said; Do you know that the Pharisees were offended after they heard this saying? But He answered, and said: Every plant, which My Heavenly Father has not planted, will be rooted up. Let them alone. They are blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both will fall into the ditch. But Kepha spoke, and said to Him; Explain this parable to us. And Yahshua said: Are you also yet without understanding? Do you not yet understand that whatever enters in at the mouth goes into the stomach, and then is cast out in elimination? But those things which proceed out of the mouth come from the heart, and they defile the man. For out of the heart proceeds evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies These are the things which defile a man--but to eat with unwashed hands does not defile a man."

So clearly Yahshua is against these Pharisical laws in the Talmud. So why is it 8 chapters later He tells us to "do all they say?"

Something is not right here.

Every translation reads as such, as all Greek texts read this way:

New International Version Mt 23:2-3
"The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat. So you must be careful to do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach."

King James Bible Mt 23:2-3
"Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:
All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not."

However Yahweh has left us truth!

Shem Tob's Hebrew Mattithyah
Mattithyah 23:2-3, "The Pharisees and Sages sit upon the seat of Mosheh. Therefore, all that he (Mosheh) says to you, diligently do, but according to thier takanot (reforms) and thier ma'asim (precedents) do not do, because they talk (Torah) but they do not do."



Takanot: reforms or enactments that (falsely) "change or add" to Yahweh's Law.

Ma'asim: acts or deeds that serve as precedents for rabbinic law.

Both Takanot and Ma'asim are laws of the Talmud.

THIS IS THE BURDEN!

Deuteronomy 4:2, "You shall not add to the word which I command you, nor shall you take anything from it, so that you may keep the Laws of Yahweh your Father which I command you."

The "rabbis" interpret Scripture by something called Midrashic interpretation, which ignores language and ignores context. They say Scripture is a divne code and only the rabbis have the knowledge to decipher that divine code. Here is an ACTUAL example of Midrashic interpretation used by the rabbis:

They take Exodus 23:2, "Do not follow the crowd in doing evil. When you give testimony in a lawsuit, do not pervert justice by siding with the crowd."

After Midrashic interpretation is applied, they come out with : "follow the crowd."

Thus even when one disagrees or knows something is wrong he must, "follow the crowd," or as the Talmud puts it in Baba Metzia 59b (top of post), "after the majority must one incline."

Deuteronomy 30:11-13, "For this Law which I command you this day is not hidden from you, nor is it beyond your reach. It is not up in heaven, so that you have to ask; Who will ascend up into heaven for us, and bring it to us, so that we may hear it and then do it? Nor is it beyond the sea, so that you have to ask; Who will cross the sea, and bring it to us, so that we may hear it and then do it?"

After Midrashic interpretation is applied, they come out with : "‘It is not in heaven.’4 What did he mean by this? — Said R. Jeremiah: That the Torah had already been given at Mount Sinai; we pay no attention to a Heavenly Voice" (Baba Metzia 59b)

Mattithyah 15:2-3, "Why do Your disciples transgress the traditions of the elders? For they do not wash their hands when they eat. But He answered, and said to them:
And why do you transgress the Laws of Yahweh by your traditions?"

Mattithyah 15:8-9, "These people draw near to Me with their mouth and honor Me with their lips, but have removed their hearts far from Me. But in vain they do worship Me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men."

Mattithyah 5:43-44, "You have heard that it has been said: You will love your brother--but hate your enemies; But I say to you; Love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do well to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you."

Most people think Yahshua is rebuking "OT", not at all, nowhere in Yahweh's words is this hate taught. This hate comes from the Talmud of the pharisees. Yahweh's words says:

Leviticus 19:34, "The stranger living with you must be treated as one of your native-born, and you shall love him as yourself; for you were strangers in the land of Egypt. I am Yahweh."

Talmud - Mas. Sanhedrin 57a
‘For murder, whether of a Cuthean by a Cuthean, or of an Israelite by a Cuthean, punishment is incurred; but of a Cuthean by an Israelite, there is no death penalty.

Talmud - Mas. Pesachim 111a
Resh Lakish said: There are four actions for which he who does them has his blood on his own head and forfeits his life,3 viz.: easing oneself between a palm tree and the wall passing between two palm trees; drinking borrowed water, and passing over spilt water, even if his wife poured it out in his presence. ‘Easing oneself between a palm tree and the wall’: this was said only if there is not four cubits,4 but if he leaves four cubits it does not matter. And even if he does not leave four cubits [space], it was said only where there is no other path;5 but if there is another path, it does not mat."
Talmud - Mas. Baba Metzia 114b
For it has been taught: R. Simeon b. Yohai said: The graves of Gentiles do not defile, forit is written, And ye my flock, the flock of my pastures, are men;5 only ye are designated ‘men’
Talmud Moed Kattan 17a
Rabbi Ila'i said: If a person is tempted to do evil he should go to a city where he is not known, dress in black clothes, cover his head in black, and do what his heart desires.

The Talmud has Sabbath laws where you can only walk 40 steps (or something similar) and you can only eat 2 meals on the Sabbath or your cursed. (THIS IS THE BURDEN YAHSHUA SPOKE OF). However if you walk 40 steps then bury your lunch, you can then walk 40 more steps and bury your dinner, then walk 40 more steps and place you cot, then walk 40 more steps.Foolishness to get people to be in submission to man or to make people not eventry to follow (what they thought) was the Creator's Law.

Also know that I chose the most non-offensive sections of the Talmud I could and still prove my point, as there are things in there that will turn a grown man's stomach. I hope this helped you to understand a little more about Yahshua's words.

This first video is from a FORMER modern Pharisee, and he can shed more light and details on the topic than I can as he GREW UP IN THIS TEACHING, but is in it no longer.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tddCNY6U77Y
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
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In Christ I died to the law
died to the law of sin or the Law of righteousness?

John 8, "31So Yahshua/Jesus said to the Jews who had believed him, “If you abide in my word, you are truly my disciples, 32and you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.” 33They answered him, “We are offspring of Abraham and have never been enslaved to anyone. How is it that you say, ‘You will become free’?” 34Yahshua/Jesus answered them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who practices sin is a slave to sin. 35The slave does not remain in the house forever; the son remains forever. 36So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed. 37I know that you are offspring of Abraham; yet you seek to kill me because my word finds no place in you. 38I speak of what I have seen with my Father, and you do what you have heard from your father.”

Romans 3:28, "For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the Law."

Romans 3:31, "Are we then doing away with the Law through the faith? By no means! Rather, we establish the Law!"

Romans 6:1-2, "What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? By no means!How can we who died to sin still live in it?"

Romans 7:7 What? Can anyone therefore say that the Law is sin? No! By no means! But to the contrary, I did not know sin; transgression of the Law, except through the Law, for I did not know lust, unless the Law had said: Do not covet.

12 Therefore the Law is holy, and the commandments are holy, and just, and righteous.

13 Did that which is righteous, then, become death to me? By no means! But in order that sin might be recognized as sin, it produced death in me through that which was righteous, so that through the commandments, sin might become utterly sinful.

14 For we know that the Law is spiritual; but I was carnal, sold into the power of sin.

16 And if I did what I did not want to do, I agreed that the Law is righteous.

17 As it was, it was no longer I myself who did it, but it was sin living in me.

22 For I delight in the Law of Yahweh according to the inward man;

23 But I saw another law at work in the members of my body, waging war against the Law in my mind, and bringing me into captivity of the law of sin, which is in my members.

25 Thanks be to Yahweh, I have deliverance through Yahshua Messiah our King! So then, with this same mind, I myself serve the Law of Yahweh, while in the flesh that is yet subject to the law of sin.

Romans 8:2 Because through Yahshua Messiah, the Law of the Spirit has set me free from the law of sin and death.

Romans 7:14 For we know that the Law is spiritual; but I was carnal, sold into the power of sin.

Romans 8:3 For what the Law was powerless to do, in that men sought to defeat; overthrow, fit, Yahweh did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful man, to bear witness against sin. And so He condemned the sins of all mankind."

1 Yahchanan (John) 3:4, "Whosoever commits sin transgresses also the Law: for sin is the transgression of the Law."

1 Yahchanan (John) 5:2-3, "By this we know that we love the children of Yahweh: When we love Yahweh by keeping His Laws. For this is the love of Yahweh: That we keep His Law, and His Law is not grievous."

Romans 7:14 For we know that the Law is spiritual; but I was carnal, sold into the power of sin.

Romans 8:5-8, "For those who live according to the flesh, set their minds on the things of the flesh; but those who live according to the Spirit, set their minds on the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against; (bitterly opposed to), Yahweh; for it his not subject to the Law of Yahweh, nor indeed can be. So then, those who are of the flesh cannot please Yahweh."

Revelation 14:12, "In this manner are the saints purified--by keeping the Laws of Yahweh, (in conformity) with the faith in Yahshua Messiah."

Matt 7:12, "So then, whatever you desire that others would do to and for you, even so do also to and for them, for this is (sums up) the Law and the Prophets."

2 Timothy 3:5, "Having a form of holiness, but denying the authority of it--from such turn away!"

Mattithyah 22:37-40, "Yahshua said to him: You must love Yahweh your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."

Romans 13:9-10, "For the commandments: You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not bring false testimony, You shall not covet, and all other commandments are summed up in these Laws; namely: You must love your neighbor as yourself. Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law."

1 Yahchanan 5:2-3, "By this we know that we love the children of Yahweh: When we love Yahweh by keeping His Laws. For this is the love of Yahweh: That we keep His Law, and His Law is not grievous."

1785 - entolé - Definition: an ordinance, injunction, command, law.
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
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You've been misled concerning the Pharisees. An interesting read is at BAR (Biblical Archaeology Review magazine) 9:04, Jul/Aug 2013

Biblical Views: The Pharisees—Good Guys with Bad Press by Roland Deines.
wait did you really just post that?

The Pharisees—Good Guys with Bad Press by Roland Deines.
Whaaaaaaat?????

have you ever read the Scriptures?

uhh.....

............
 
Jan 19, 2013
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So in other words, Jesus Christ,
the One who gave the Law to Moses, changed His mind?
That does not seem so inane to you?

"So in other words, the One who gave the Law to Moses changed his mind" about the Levitical priesthood and the animal sacrifices?

Nor did Jesus of Nazareth give the Law to Moses.
 
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