"Disciplining" children
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A
It almost sounds as though you are looking for something like:
The book of XYZ Chapter 1 verse 3 says:
If child runs into the road, spank them.
If child grabs toy from sibling, place child in time out.
Or am I misunderstanding you?
After reading through your Op a few times and skimming through the thread I still think it sounds like that is what you are asking/looking for.
The book of XYZ Chapter 1 verse 3 says:
If child runs into the road, spank them.
If child grabs toy from sibling, place child in time out.
Or am I misunderstanding you?
After reading through your Op a few times and skimming through the thread I still think it sounds like that is what you are asking/looking for.
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It’s a new covenant seperate from the one Jesus fulfilled
“Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:”
Jeremiah 31:31-32
there’s a place where one reaches and ends Christ coming and eventually dying after he preached the word of God is the culmination of the old covenant it’s not two in one or one that failed and then was improved
it’s two testaments one came through Moses that’s the one made with israel when he led them from Egypt that’s the covenant that isn’t crossing to the new
“The law and the prophets were until John:
since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.”
Luke 16:16 KJV
the law and prophets reach to Jesus and Jesus preached the new covenant word the gospel of his kingdom that’s not what Moses ever preached nothing g regarding Gods kingdom but earths kingdom Israel’s kingdom is what it was about that covenant was broken
when you try to make Moses words the same as Jesus words your missing where the covenant ends and new begins.
This is how incompatible Moses commands were with Jesus
“Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: ( Moses law exodus 21:23-24 )
but I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.”
Matthew 5:38-39 KJV
you cannot obey Moses and what he said. And also Jesus and what he said because they aren’t the same they are contrary not just slightly different it is “ repay an offense with equal offense v don’t take revenge and repay evil for evil I will repay saith the lord “
those two instructions are contrary you can’t obey both of you obey Moses and repay offense with offense then you are violating Jesus word , if you don’t obey Moses and repay the offense the. You’ve disobeyed the old and obeyed Jesus
but you ca t take revenge and also not take revenge it’s not possible to do two things and avoid doing the other you have to choose New Testament word of Christ or Old Testament word for Israel
you have this law of Moses that you can try to be saved by
“Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.”
Romans 3:19-20 KJV
We can try to be saved by that law the old covenant or this once you take the law out of the equation because Christ took it away for us fulfilling it and giving us a better word the gospel
“But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed ( foretold ) by the law and the prophets; even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: for all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:”
Romans 3:21-24 KJV
That righteousness for believers there mentioned is this
“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
Mark 16:15-16 KJV
It only comes from the gospel the law brought forth the messiah and he. Brought forth faith to be saved
You have to leave the law behind like an educator once you achieve education the teacher served thoer purpose the law was like that schoolteacher about sin we leave it behind and now embrace the gospel the law was before faith came forth
“But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.”
Galatians 3:23-25 KJV
The law making us guilty and aware of sin is what brings a believer tonjesus only known sinners who believe in God are going to ever accept a savior and atonement fornthier sins the law is important but it only teaches to where Jesus arrives
“Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:”
Jeremiah 31:31-32
there’s a place where one reaches and ends Christ coming and eventually dying after he preached the word of God is the culmination of the old covenant it’s not two in one or one that failed and then was improved
it’s two testaments one came through Moses that’s the one made with israel when he led them from Egypt that’s the covenant that isn’t crossing to the new
“The law and the prophets were until John:
since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.”
Luke 16:16 KJV
the law and prophets reach to Jesus and Jesus preached the new covenant word the gospel of his kingdom that’s not what Moses ever preached nothing g regarding Gods kingdom but earths kingdom Israel’s kingdom is what it was about that covenant was broken
when you try to make Moses words the same as Jesus words your missing where the covenant ends and new begins.
This is how incompatible Moses commands were with Jesus
“Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: ( Moses law exodus 21:23-24 )
but I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.”
Matthew 5:38-39 KJV
you cannot obey Moses and what he said. And also Jesus and what he said because they aren’t the same they are contrary not just slightly different it is “ repay an offense with equal offense v don’t take revenge and repay evil for evil I will repay saith the lord “
those two instructions are contrary you can’t obey both of you obey Moses and repay offense with offense then you are violating Jesus word , if you don’t obey Moses and repay the offense the. You’ve disobeyed the old and obeyed Jesus
but you ca t take revenge and also not take revenge it’s not possible to do two things and avoid doing the other you have to choose New Testament word of Christ or Old Testament word for Israel
you have this law of Moses that you can try to be saved by
“Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.”
Romans 3:19-20 KJV
We can try to be saved by that law the old covenant or this once you take the law out of the equation because Christ took it away for us fulfilling it and giving us a better word the gospel
“But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed ( foretold ) by the law and the prophets; even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: for all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:”
Romans 3:21-24 KJV
That righteousness for believers there mentioned is this
“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
Mark 16:15-16 KJV
It only comes from the gospel the law brought forth the messiah and he. Brought forth faith to be saved
You have to leave the law behind like an educator once you achieve education the teacher served thoer purpose the law was like that schoolteacher about sin we leave it behind and now embrace the gospel the law was before faith came forth
“But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.”
Galatians 3:23-25 KJV
The law making us guilty and aware of sin is what brings a believer tonjesus only known sinners who believe in God are going to ever accept a savior and atonement fornthier sins the law is important but it only teaches to where Jesus arrives
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I suppose it would be unfeasible to give every punishment for every specific wrong - down to "If you steal semi-ripe apples from a Mexican's orchard, you'll get 20 stripes of the rod.". It seems 'though considering the specific penalties for wrongdoing in eg. Leviticus or Deuteronomy, that there aren't better guidelines than there are.
yes and based on a single transgression they are condemned themselves
“For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.”
James 2:10 KJV
“For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.”
Galatians 5:3 KJV
they are cursing themselves
“For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.”
Galatians 3:10-12 KJV
What I’ve found is those who wrgue for the law so t even acknowledge what the law is that it is everything written in Moses book. This is of course biblically established but those that argue for the law have thier own version of what the law is they won’t acknolwedge it’s what Moses commanded so they actually wre t arguing for the biblical ot law because they have no grasp of it not recognizing the book of the law is written and every jot and tittle applies to those under it the good and bad
they try to reason why the law is just this part or that part but the law is what it says it is nothing more or less
the simple concept is the law teaches to where the gospel is concluded when Jesus does and rose his words became Gods everlasting word not Moses and Jesus but Jesus words re the words
that’s why Jesus spent so much time correcting what Moses taught eye for an eye ? Nope turn the other cheek . Get married and divorce if you sre t happy and remarry like Moses said ? Nope don’t get divorced and remarry that’s adultery there’s only one reason for divorce
Jesus literally spent most of his ministry quoting the law of Moses and teaching a better way a new and pure way a righteous way a living way
The New Testament is new and better
“But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.”
Hebrews 8:6
if anyone ever compared Moses promises and commands to his people , with Jesus promises and instructions to his people all the confusion would dissipate and everyone would look to the gospel
“For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.”
James 2:10 KJV
“For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.”
Galatians 5:3 KJV
they are cursing themselves
“For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.”
Galatians 3:10-12 KJV
What I’ve found is those who wrgue for the law so t even acknowledge what the law is that it is everything written in Moses book. This is of course biblically established but those that argue for the law have thier own version of what the law is they won’t acknolwedge it’s what Moses commanded so they actually wre t arguing for the biblical ot law because they have no grasp of it not recognizing the book of the law is written and every jot and tittle applies to those under it the good and bad
they try to reason why the law is just this part or that part but the law is what it says it is nothing more or less
the simple concept is the law teaches to where the gospel is concluded when Jesus does and rose his words became Gods everlasting word not Moses and Jesus but Jesus words re the words
that’s why Jesus spent so much time correcting what Moses taught eye for an eye ? Nope turn the other cheek . Get married and divorce if you sre t happy and remarry like Moses said ? Nope don’t get divorced and remarry that’s adultery there’s only one reason for divorce
Jesus literally spent most of his ministry quoting the law of Moses and teaching a better way a new and pure way a righteous way a living way
The New Testament is new and better
“But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.”
Hebrews 8:6
if anyone ever compared Moses promises and commands to his people , with Jesus promises and instructions to his people all the confusion would dissipate and everyone would look to the gospel
Deuteronomy 21:18-21 ESV
If a man has a stubborn and rebellious son who will not obey the voice of his father
or the voice of his mother, and, though they discipline him, will not listen to them, then
his father and his mother shall take hold of him and bring him out to the elders of his
city at the gate of the place where he lives, and they shall say to the elders of his city,
‘This our son is stubborn and rebellious; he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton and
a drunkard.’ Then all the men of the city shall stone him to death with stones. So you
shall purge the evil from your midst, and all Israel shall hear, and fear.
Is that what you are looking for?
If a man has a stubborn and rebellious son who will not obey the voice of his father
or the voice of his mother, and, though they discipline him, will not listen to them, then
his father and his mother shall take hold of him and bring him out to the elders of his
city at the gate of the place where he lives, and they shall say to the elders of his city,
‘This our son is stubborn and rebellious; he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton and
a drunkard.’ Then all the men of the city shall stone him to death with stones. So you
shall purge the evil from your midst, and all Israel shall hear, and fear.
Is that what you are looking for?
Deuteronomy 21:18-21 ESV
If a man has a stubborn and rebellious son who will not obey the voice of his father
or the voice of his mother, and, though they discipline him, will not listen to them, then
his father and his mother shall take hold of him and bring him out to the elders of his
city at the gate of the place where he lives, and they shall say to the elders of his city,
‘This our son is stubborn and rebellious; he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton and
a drunkard.’ Then all the men of the city shall stone him to death with stones. So you
shall purge the evil from your midst, and all Israel shall hear, and fear.
Is that what you are looking for?
If a man has a stubborn and rebellious son who will not obey the voice of his father
or the voice of his mother, and, though they discipline him, will not listen to them, then
his father and his mother shall take hold of him and bring him out to the elders of his
city at the gate of the place where he lives, and they shall say to the elders of his city,
‘This our son is stubborn and rebellious; he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton and
a drunkard.’ Then all the men of the city shall stone him to death with stones. So you
shall purge the evil from your midst, and all Israel shall hear, and fear.
Is that what you are looking for?
That's certainly ONE example of parental discipline.
my Aunt had a unique method for punishment. it included a wooden spoon and if you lied, stole, hurt or whatever she would would spell it out. i will stop lying = 14 wooden spoon swats. i remember her spanking me and i had to do everything i could from laughing and pretend i was crushed. when i got home meant my dad was going to give me 3 swats and he used a barbershop razor strap. i did my best to convince my dad to use the wooden spoon method but he just laughed as he was prepping that ole strap for me.
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what about Jesus?
He was crucified
or is that different. I mean his dad didnt do it but his Father allowed it to happen, plus Jesus was taking the punishment on behalf of everyone else.
I dont think it mattered how old you were on the cross. Jesus was beaten pretty bad and got a huge flogging. 39 lashes I think.
the reason 39 is apparently 40 would be enough to kill you.
in schools it used to be you got 'six of the best'. Teachers used whips, canes, or the strap. Some would use rulers. Mostly on the bottom. Though it was mostly boys, girls would write lines.
Basically if you disobeyed ANY instruction the teacher gave, for example talking when the teacher told you NOT to talk, that would merit a beating/strike or whatver you want to call it.
nowadays schools tend to just expel troublemakers or disobedeint children. Parents do this too they just kick them out the house if they cant be bothered with them anymore.
He was crucified
or is that different. I mean his dad didnt do it but his Father allowed it to happen, plus Jesus was taking the punishment on behalf of everyone else.
I dont think it mattered how old you were on the cross. Jesus was beaten pretty bad and got a huge flogging. 39 lashes I think.
the reason 39 is apparently 40 would be enough to kill you.
in schools it used to be you got 'six of the best'. Teachers used whips, canes, or the strap. Some would use rulers. Mostly on the bottom. Though it was mostly boys, girls would write lines.
Basically if you disobeyed ANY instruction the teacher gave, for example talking when the teacher told you NOT to talk, that would merit a beating/strike or whatver you want to call it.
nowadays schools tend to just expel troublemakers or disobedeint children. Parents do this too they just kick them out the house if they cant be bothered with them anymore.
Jesus was a teacher, and his disciples (students) were only those who WANTED to follow him. Jesus did not punish those who did not want to obey his words. They just walked away and He let them go
it was their loss.
We know that Peter did betray (or deny) Jesus but he went back to him and asked for forgiveness and Jesus did not punish him but gave him a challenge, which was to feed his sheep and lambs.
If we are to discipline (i,e teach) our children we do best to follow Jesus example of discipline.
it was their loss.
We know that Peter did betray (or deny) Jesus but he went back to him and asked for forgiveness and Jesus did not punish him but gave him a challenge, which was to feed his sheep and lambs.
If we are to discipline (i,e teach) our children we do best to follow Jesus example of discipline.
I think the specific answer is that we are responsible for teaching children right from wrong, and because wrong ways of behaving brings on pain, we are to use spanking as an illustration of the pain wrong behavior brings. Spanking does not harm a child, wrong behavior harms them.
A child should never be "hit" in anger.
A child should never be "hit" in anger.
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A
Well, when it comes to child rearing there is certainly no "one size fits all" method. While one child may break down and cry just from being given "the look" another will give "the look" right back to you, thus having other issues needing dealt with in addition to whatever "the look" was given for.
But I am still confused by your op.
Was I correct in my assumption of what you are asking?
But I am still confused by your op.
Was I correct in my assumption of what you are asking?
The Bible says a rod for the fools back which a fool is someone that will not obey or listen no matter how many times they are told.
A child in this circumstance would be a child that is rebellious towards their parents and want to do what they want to do which this would be more like the children who are in their teens that want to do what they want ignoring their parents.
Children will sin like all humans will sin from time to time but this does not make the child a fool or rebellious towards the parents on purpose.
I believe we should talk to the children first about their sin but if they refuse to obey and listen after being told quite a few times then the only way to correct the child is to administer physical punishment as long as it is not abuse.
Which God said physically discipline the child for you will drive hell from them and they will not die for physically disciplining them.
A rod for the fools back not for a child that will sin but then be sorry about it and try to not do it again which a fool will not listen but will do what they want to do.
Because that child will sin like the adults will sin and where is the discipline for the parents
The Bible says that a child should honor and obey their parents and that the parents should not provoke their children to wrath which the parents also have a responsibility to the children to conduct themselves right so the children will not be disappointed in the parents and want to listen to them.
That is a problem today which seems like it started with the counter culture movement when they became immoral, with the attitude do your own thing, and rebelliousness against parents.
Now we have parents that are drug addicts, alcoholics, swearing, stealing, belittling the neighbors, fighting with their spouse and not getting along, being short with the children, in bad moods, so the children think you want to tell me what to do while you are engaging in improper behavior yourself.
So the parents are provoking a lot of the children to wrath compared to prior to the 1960's when the parents had better morals and conduct.
So is it the childrens fault or the parents more for the behavior of many children today.
Also a lot of parents let their children get away with more today than years ago and many children seem to insert their own ways in to the family as if the parents have to listen to them.
A child in this circumstance would be a child that is rebellious towards their parents and want to do what they want to do which this would be more like the children who are in their teens that want to do what they want ignoring their parents.
Children will sin like all humans will sin from time to time but this does not make the child a fool or rebellious towards the parents on purpose.
I believe we should talk to the children first about their sin but if they refuse to obey and listen after being told quite a few times then the only way to correct the child is to administer physical punishment as long as it is not abuse.
Which God said physically discipline the child for you will drive hell from them and they will not die for physically disciplining them.
A rod for the fools back not for a child that will sin but then be sorry about it and try to not do it again which a fool will not listen but will do what they want to do.
Because that child will sin like the adults will sin and where is the discipline for the parents
The Bible says that a child should honor and obey their parents and that the parents should not provoke their children to wrath which the parents also have a responsibility to the children to conduct themselves right so the children will not be disappointed in the parents and want to listen to them.
That is a problem today which seems like it started with the counter culture movement when they became immoral, with the attitude do your own thing, and rebelliousness against parents.
Now we have parents that are drug addicts, alcoholics, swearing, stealing, belittling the neighbors, fighting with their spouse and not getting along, being short with the children, in bad moods, so the children think you want to tell me what to do while you are engaging in improper behavior yourself.
So the parents are provoking a lot of the children to wrath compared to prior to the 1960's when the parents had better morals and conduct.
So is it the childrens fault or the parents more for the behavior of many children today.
Also a lot of parents let their children get away with more today than years ago and many children seem to insert their own ways in to the family as if the parents have to listen to them.
The state that says it will take care of the children is the state that will house them in their prisons. When teenagers are shooting teachers and 12-year-olds assaulting them. that is because they have no respect for parents, God, and authorities. They have been coddled and abused by this ungodly generation.
I guess parents would rather beat their children up as punishment rather than not give them any food right?
I dont think that works. Hitting and beating up doesnt teach some children anything...sometimes it just teaches them to hate you and make them run away from you. Or they will just disobey you while you arent looking.
if you want to be the police cop for your children then thats your life, I think it would just be exhausting beating and smacking a child for every misdemeanour. Children wont learn that way
Children do learn by positive reinforcement so you bettter be giving HUGS as well. Some parents do not hug or hold their children.
I dont think that works. Hitting and beating up doesnt teach some children anything...sometimes it just teaches them to hate you and make them run away from you. Or they will just disobey you while you arent looking.
if you want to be the police cop for your children then thats your life, I think it would just be exhausting beating and smacking a child for every misdemeanour. Children wont learn that way
Children do learn by positive reinforcement so you bettter be giving HUGS as well. Some parents do not hug or hold their children.