"Disciplining" children

[AndrewMorgan]

Hi.
Regarding the biblical (and generally accepted, by bible-believing Christians) instruction re. the corporal punishment of children - something I've always found abhorrent, 'though I'm not a perfect, wise, all-knowing God! - I've not seen anywhere in the OT ('though there might well be some I've missed) where it states what such punishment is to be administered for specific offenses.
I'd be interested in hearing in any light on the subject.

 

[p_rehbein]

Here is some Study Material for you:

Proverbs 13:24 - He that spareth his rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes.

Hebrews 12:11 - Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.

Proverbs 23:13-15 - Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die. (Read More...)

Proverbs 22:6 - Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it.

Proverbs 22:15 - Foolishness is bound in the heart of a child; but the rod of correction shall drive it far from him.

Ephesians 6:4 - And, ye fathers, provoke not your children to wrath: but bring them up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord.

Proverbs 29:17 - Correct thy son, and he shall give thee rest; yea, he shall give delight unto thy soul.

Proverbs 19:18 - Chasten thy son while there is hope, and let not thy soul spare for his crying.

Proverbs 29:15 - The rod and reproof give wisdom: but a child left to himself bringeth his mother to shame.

Colossians 3:21 - Fathers, provoke not your children to anger, lest they be discouraged.

Ephesians 6:1-4 - Children, obey your parents in the Lord: for this is right. (Read More...)

Proverbs 12:1 - Whoso loveth instruction loveth knowledge: but he that hateth reproof is brutish.

Hebrews 12:5-11 - And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him: (Read More...)

Proverbs 15:32 - He that refuseth instruction despiseth his own soul: but he that heareth reproof getteth understanding.

Proverbs 13:1 - A wise son heareth his father's instruction: but a scorner heareth not rebuke.

Proverbs 6:23 - For the commandment is a lamp; and the law is light; and reproofs of instruction are the way of life:

Proverbs 15:5 - A fool despiseth his father's instruction: but he that regardeth reproof is prudent.

Proverbs 10:17 - He is in the way of life that keepeth instruction: but he that refuseth reproof erreth.

Exodus 20:12 - Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.

(btw; there is a huge difference between disciplin and physical abuse...just saying)

 

[AndrewMorgan]

Thanks for your material, yet none of the quotes gave the answer to my question. They gave generalities about affairs between parents and children, but nothing about what SPECIFIC things warranted SPECIFIC punishments. Eg - what would constitute using the rod?

 

[p_rehbein]

Thanks for your material, yet none of the quotes gave the answer to my question. They gave generalities about affairs between parents and children, but nothing about what SPECIFIC things warranted SPECIFIC punishments. Eg - what would constitute using the rod?

Thought it would be obvious....sorry

WRONG DOING
DISOBEDIENCE

are the main reasons a child is disciplined

this goes for human children as well as the children of God......you know God disciplines His children, right?

 

[Beckie]

Thanks for your material, yet none of the quotes gave the answer to my question. They gave generalities about affairs between parents and children, but nothing about what SPECIFIC things warranted SPECIFIC punishments. Eg - what would constitute using the rod?

Each child is different. One listed above is foolishness ... You are not going to find a Scripture saying you are getting a spanking because i told you to stay off the internet.
If i could go back about 50 years i would spank less, make less rules, but be better at following those rules through. A sharp swat and my grandson did not find his way to the street again.

 

[p_rehbein]

There is no list of "specific punishments" under the New Covenant, Grace.....

mayhaps you should better explain why you are seeking such a "list" of crimes and punishments?

Common sense dictates that IF a child does wrong or disobeys that they are to be corrected in such a manner as to teach them the need to act properly and be obedient.

What manner of "punishment" is used is up to the parent.......

 

[Beckie]

There is no list of "specific punishments" under the New Covenant, Grace.....

mayhaps you should better explain why you are seeking such a "list" of crimes and punishments?

Common sense dictates that IF a child does wrong or disobeys that they are to be corrected in such a manner as to teach them the need to act properly and be obedient.

What manner of "punishment" is used is up to the parent.......

Yup some kids learn from a 'look' took a 2by4 to get my attention

 

[p_rehbein]

Given the state our society is in today, and the world...for that matter; I would say the LACK OF DISIPLINE of children. and its results, would be quite evident to most anyone.

When they took God and Prayer out of schools.......well, just look at what is in schools today, and tell me it is a better world.

 

[Hazelelponi]

Hi.
Regarding the biblical (and generally accepted, by bible-believing Christians) instruction re. the corporal punishment of children - something I've always found abhorrent, 'though I'm not a perfect, wise, all-knowing God! - I've not seen anywhere in the OT ('though there might well be some I've missed) where it states what such punishment is to be administered for specific offenses.
I'd be interested in hearing in any light on the subject.

I don't think the Bible outlines specific offenses... As parents we must use our best judgement. As with all things some things children may do are more serious, other things not so much.

A child chasing a ball into the street is life threatening, I'd automatically swat my child/grandchild's rear for something that dangerous, whereas for other things like sneaking a cookie before dinner I wouldn't, though I would correct verbally.

Good parenting from infancy however alleviates much as children get older.

 

[Hazelelponi]

Given the state our society is in today, and the world...for that matter; I would say the LACK OF DISIPLINE of children. and its results, would be quite evident to most anyone.

When they took God and Prayer out of schools.......well, just look at what is in schools today, and tell me it is a better world.

They took mother's out of the home at about the same time as God and prayer out of school.

Good parenting, attentive parenting, alleviates much as children get older. We are seeing a decided lack of parenting as a whole from our society, not just a lack of God.

 

[JohnDB]

Hi.
Regarding the biblical (and generally accepted, by bible-believing Christians) instruction re. the corporal punishment of children - something I've always found abhorrent, 'though I'm not a perfect, wise, all-knowing God! - I've not seen anywhere in the OT ('though there might well be some I've missed) where it states what such punishment is to be administered for specific offenses.
I'd be interested in hearing in any light on the subject.

Oh in my house it was used for deliberate and direct defiance of known prohibitions.

IE "do not cross the line"
*child puts toe across the line*

Wham wham wham

Child cries. Acts like he got murdered by Dad.

Truthfully, I hit him harder when we were playing and wrestling around...but the difference was the ceremony.

But....consistency is a must. It gives children comfort and joy about knowing with confidence that they are capable and able.

 

[JohnDB]

Also want to say that discipline is NOT always about negative consequences for negative behaviors....it also was about positive consequences for positive behavior. And verbally acknowledge the positive behavior.
Trying to do more positive than negative.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

my dad was an evangelist and traveled a lot. my mom watched us and then told us every time we did wrong, which meant tell my dad. so when my dad got back home he would do the spanking. i learned fast be first before his arm gets warmed up. but he figured that out and would rotate us. later in life we were joking about and i asked my dad what was the real intent behind the method of punishment outside the Bible? he laughed and said to beat the stupid out of you. i laughed back and said well you failed, which gave him a good laugh.

 

[pottersclay]

Its worthy to note that scripture says to use a rod. Not your hands.
In fact JESUS in his thousand yr. reign uses a rod of iron.
Guess the hand were not meant to be instruments of punishment.
He also fasioned a type of whip in the temple.
I think that the southern people get it right here in the U.S. with the switch to be the instrument of discipline.
Physical discipline should be the last resort but never ignored. One needs to carry out the threat which in my house was me the dad aka..bad guy. 🙁☹☹

 

[Blik]

Thanks for your material, yet none of the quotes gave the answer to my question. They gave generalities about affairs between parents and children, but nothing about what SPECIFIC things warranted SPECIFIC punishments. Eg - what would constitute using the rod?

We live under the new covenant, and that changed the law from fleshly obedience to spiritual obedience. Do not murder became do not harm anyone. That says that we must use the rod to teach but always use it in a way that does not harm.

I explained to my children that my spanks for bad behavior was to let them know they must not do that, but if they didn't learn from me, then as a grownup, bad behavior caused worse pain than my spanks.

Two of my children were easy--a quick spank and they learned. One reacted badly to a spank, I needed to take the time to get his cooperation and agreement to behaving differently.

 

[Jocund]

Hi.
Regarding the biblical (and generally accepted, by bible-believing Christians) instruction re. the corporal punishment of children - something I've always found abhorrent, 'though I'm not a perfect, wise, all-knowing God! - I've not seen anywhere in the OT ('though there might well be some I've missed) where it states what such punishment is to be administered for specific offenses.
I'd be interested in hearing in any light on the subject.

If someone was walking on train tracks oblivious to the oncoming train, would you not tackle them off the tracks at that critical moment to get them out of harms way? Yes, they might get upset or hurt in a superficial way (as you might as well by tackling them) but you have done so to avoid a greater danger and injury that they could not perceive. This kind of correction is done out of love.

The same concept applies to spanking and other correction. It can be the most prudent thing to do. But in the same way that it may not be necessary to tackle someone off of a train track, other techniques can be more appropriate at times such as chastising/rebuking behaviour.

It is important to have a clear communication and explanation for why a child is being punished where it is appropriate. That will help build trust and respect even if the initial reaction is indignation, anger, etc.

Sometimes you can give too much information. Like say, trying to explain to a 2 year old why their actions affect others. Or trying to explain to a 1 year old that playing with an electrical outlet is bad. A verbal explanation is going to be more or less fruitless where a spank and a clear "no!" creates a clear emotional imprint that deters them from repeating the behaviour. And in time, as they grow, children often reflect on things and when they are ready will ask you why things are the way they are. This can especially be the case with rules that change over time like going from not being allowed to use scissors to eventually being able to safely handle scissors. The child might not recognize that the rules for them can change based on the fact that their ability to competently and safely handle things have changed. Sometimes parents can miss that too in the fact that there is a point that a spank and a firm "no!" eventually isn't the best fit correction.

There are great passages in the OT but there is no need to look to the OT... The NT tells us to do things out of love. Different kinds of punishments (including corporal punishment) can be done out of love. Not everyone is going to be skilful at the art of discipline. That comes with practice and experience (and can be from mentorship and other guidance). No master falls from the sky.

 

[p_rehbein]

......ever heard this?.........

I brought you into this world, I can take you out!

 

[AndrewMorgan]

Thanks for your replies. I've read through them.
It seems to me 'though that they all confirm my point that no specific actions correspond to specific punishments (sorry if I've missed any which contradict this).
This I find strange, in light of the fact that there are so many detailed rules and punishments elsewhere (Eg Lev. and Deuter.).

 

[Grandpa]

Proverbs 22:6 Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it.

Proverbs 22:15 Foolishness is bound in the heart of a child; but the rod of correction shall drive it far from him.

Proverbs 13:24 He that spareth his rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes.


The bible is pretty straightforward here. If you find the rod "abhorrent" then you don't care for the training of your children. You don't understand children, training or the role the rod plays in that training.

Its sad, because as people start to think they know better than what some old book says, society goes downhill quickly.

 

[AndrewMorgan]

Maybe I've implicitly exaggerated the need for specificities, but whether the case, your post adds to the point that the Bible seems to lack them.