Discussing Noah's Flood - Mysteries & Theories

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wolfwint

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2014
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Read my post #1 and #3 which states detail differences between Adam’s former World - in comparison to our present Heaven and Earth which are now. It’s also a Biblical fact that Adam’s World was surrounded by water below and above it….….. while our present World is surrounded by Star Dust.

See Ancient Hebrew Perspective of Adam’s World - see link ..... https://www.pinterest.ph/pin/113715959316206919/

The first Heaven or World was in the midst of water and later destroyed in a Flood.The second Heaven is our present world, which is scheduled to be burned. The third Heaven is the object of the Creation, contains a single city with streets of gold and gates of pearl, and it will never die (Rev.21).

The first Heaven or World was in the midst of water and later destroyed in a Flood.
The second Heaven is our present world, which is scheduled to be burned.
The third Heaven is the object of the Creation, contains a single city with streets of gold and gates of pearl, and it will never die (Rev.21).


The first heaven was made the SECOND Day. Genesis 1:6-8
The second heaven was made the THIRD Day. Genesis 2:4
The third heaven was is also made on the THIRD Day. Genesis 2:4


Do you see the Plurality of Shamayim in Genesis 2:4, LITERALLY speaking?

Isa 65:17 For, behold, I create new heavenS (Plural) and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

It's a Multiverse alright.
Well, it could be with the waterbelt around the earth, as I told in post 89.
Thats sounds for me much more logic then your theory. And for this I must not put much into the text, because the text says so.
 

Mii

Well-known member
Mar 23, 2019
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I wonder at your unbelief. Scripture tells us they had children, there is no other way. And in the next verse it tells us about humans becoming wicked.

Genesis 6: 4 The Nephilim were on the earth in those days—and also afterward—when the sons of God went to the daughters of humans and had children by them. They were the heroes of old, men of renown.
I wonder that you are so convinced that sons of God doesn't refer to descendants of Seth and daughters of men doesn't refer to cain's offspring.

Knowledge of how to manipulate sexual energies to produce desired traits is something akin to breeding. There is something to the false prophet and the beast so it seems clear enough that there is more to "Extra-human" traits or rather coupling fully with darkness...but to say with certainty that our seed is COMPLETELY compatible is a stretch. I've known people that have had rather jarring sexual experiences with "entities". To say that a persons spirit cannot be "warped" and re-fashioned to SOME extent is believable. To say that the enemy has the power to completely remake our race into his own image is risky ground. May not be relevant for you personally but these things will matter for some. I do believe this is consensual. Not for the child but certainly for at least one parent.

I am aware that sons of God were mentioned in many more instances. What I am suggesting is that it is not quite so clear as people think. I thought about the nephilim and that particular passage for most of my life and it led to some rather "disturbing" tangents that are unproductive. Things that can't be proven currently.

Do I think that certain lineages will be empirically verified in the future in order to "deceive even the elect"? yes I do. Bearing the possible interpretation and meaning in mind is certainly a good thing but stating it unequivocally is REACHING.
 

2Pillars

Junior Member
Jan 28, 2016
112
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hmm i don't think you're using enough gerunds in your dialogue, and very few semicolons for my taste.
also i don't particularly care for the font you post in.


so..
So, that's all you can do here, guys... another Ad Hominem for fallacy of argument.... to hide from your inability to defend the flaws of your Traditional Goatherder's Theology?

Sorry guys, I don't mean to upset you all. BELIEVE IT OR NOT...I just want to post what I believe to be God's Truth.
 

Mii

Well-known member
Mar 23, 2019
1,877
1,224
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I will add that understanding it in terms of descendants of seth/cain I found relatively boring. Sensible...but not nearly as exciting.

This time limit for editing posts gets annoying ;)



So, that's all you can do here, guys... another Ad Hominem for fallacy of argument.... to hide from your inability to defend the flaws of your Traditional Goatherder's Theology?

Sorry guys, I don't mean to upset you all. BELIEVE IT OR NOT...I just want to post what I believe to be God's Truth.
Ok, I get that you feel a burden for this. Can I ask what the relevancy is for this burden and how it impacts our walk?

It's almost like Young earth/old earth theory.

Would be helpful.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
6,986
2,236
113
I wonder that you are so convinced that sons of God doesn't refer to descendants of Seth and daughters of men doesn't refer to cain's offspring.

Knowledge of how to manipulate sexual energies to produce desired traits is something akin to breeding. There is something to the false prophet and the beast so it seems clear enough that there is more to "Extra-human" traits or rather coupling fully with darkness...but to say with certainty that our seed is COMPLETELY compatible is a stretch. I've known people that have had rather jarring sexual experiences with "entities". To say that a persons spirit cannot be "warped" and re-fashioned to SOME extent is believable. To say that the enemy has the power to completely remake our race into his own image is risky ground. May not be relevant for you personally but these things will matter for some. I do believe this is consensual. Not for the child but certainly for at least one parent.

I am aware that sons of God were mentioned in many more instances. What I am suggesting is that it is not quite so clear as people think. I thought about the nephilim and that particular passage for most of my life and it led to some rather "disturbing" tangents that are unproductive. Things that can't be proven currently.

Do I think that certain lineages will be empirically verified in the future in order to "deceive even the elect"? yes I do. Bearing the possible interpretation and meaning in mind is certainly a good thing but stating it unequivocally is REACHING.
If you think your science of today works for the way the earth was before the flood, and you are so sure of it, why do you question what scripture and ancient books tell us?

God destroyed man with the flood, and we are told why. If you question that you create a God who can't be trusted with our life today, for what is to stop God from doing another wipe out of man? The God scripture tells of did it to protect men who were His own, protect them from the wickedness of the Nephilim who threatened us. The God you create can't be trusted.

We are told one order of angels can take on human form. I trust what scripture tells us and scripture on this point is plain and simple. Scripture tells us there are angels who are in rebellion against the Lord, that is the way it is or the entire scripture is suspect for it says things that can't be trusted. Rebellious angels had children with humans.
Again, that is plain scripture. The result was Nephilim. Again, it isn't to be believed or not believed, it is given to us in scripture.

You either believe scripture as the way our life is or you do not. I am sure that scripture explains life and I'll live on after I am done living here. It is either scripture or death.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
20,617
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So, that's all you can do here, guys... another Ad Hominem for fallacy of argument.... to hide from your inability to defend the flaws of your Traditional Goatherder's Theology?

Sorry guys, I don't mean to upset you all. BELIEVE IT OR NOT...I just want to post what I believe to be God's Truth.

This guy clearly doesn't have a clue what an ad hominem fallacy is.
 

Mii

Well-known member
Mar 23, 2019
1,877
1,224
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If you think your science of today works for the way the earth was before the flood, and you are so sure of it, why do you question what scripture and ancient books tell us?

God destroyed man with the flood, and we are told why. If you question that you create a God who can't be trusted with our life today, for what is to stop God from doing another wipe out of man? The God scripture tells of did it to protect men who were His own, protect them from the wickedness of the Nephilim who threatened us. The God you create can't be trusted.

We are told one order of angels can take on human form. I trust what scripture tells us and scripture on this point is plain and simple. Scripture tells us there are angels who are in rebellion against the Lord, that is the way it is or the entire scripture is suspect for it says things that can't be trusted. Rebellious angels had children with humans.
Again, that is plain scripture. The result was Nephilim. Again, it isn't to be believed or not believed, it is given to us in scripture.

You either believe scripture as the way our life is or you do not. I am sure that scripture explains life and I'll live on after I am done living here. It is either scripture or death.

I'm not sure how you are drawing so much out of my post. I've read Genesis and I read through the flood again last night. You didn't really reply to my post. The Lord destroyed the earth due to wickedness...Not because the Nephilim had taken over the earth, it simply says that they were there, meaning "possibly" their influence on the level of wickedness.

Who and what the Nephilim are is debated heavily. So to suggest that because I don't have your personal understanding of scripture that I don't trust the Lord is pretty disconcerting dude.




As I've said, I thought that Demonic hybrids existed in the pre-flood days most of my life. It went along with my dream life and it suited my fancies. It explained all manner of folklore to me and allowed for its possibility. It's something that I've been convicted of...basically going on Biblical fanfiction tangents...That possibly we don't know the intricacies of fallen angels and their machinations nor should we (RM 16:19).

Knowing the enemy has set himself up against the Lord and to be mindful of stewarding sexual energy is enough unless someone has had very "particular" encounters that are best left unsaid unless such a burden presents itself.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
6,986
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I'm not sure how you are drawing so much out of my post. I've read Genesis and I read through the flood again last night. You didn't really reply to my post. The Lord destroyed the earth due to wickedness...Not because the Nephilim had taken over the earth, it simply says that they were there, meaning "possibly" their influence on the level of wickedness.

Who and what the Nephilim are is debated heavily. So to suggest that because I don't have your personal understanding of scripture that I don't trust the Lord is pretty disconcerting dude.

As I've said, I thought that Demonic hybrids existed in the pre-flood days most of my life. It went along with my dream life and it suited my fancies. It explained all manner of folklore to me and allowed for its possibility. It's something that I've been convicted of...basically going on Biblical fanfiction tangents...That possibly we don't know the intricacies of fallen angels and their machinations nor should we (RM 16:19).

Knowing the enemy has set himself up against the Lord and to be mindful of stewarding sexual energy is enough unless someone has had very "particular" encounters that are best left unsaid unless such a burden presents itself.
Scripture as you know it does not tell us it was Nephilim who was the source of the wicked people before the flood, but if you go to history of that time from books the Catholic Church labeled as too Hebrew so was tossed, it does tell us that. In Christ's time the book of Enoch, the main source, was accepted as truth and it is mentioned in scripture as we know it as truth. Books written of that time is accepted as historical, even by Catholic followers. If you believe the Catholic Church councils were right in discarding this book, you might consider it as history.

The "demonic hybrids" are from your reasoning, not scripture except as the Nephilim is explained. Nephilim is from written reports.
 

2Pillars

Junior Member
Jan 28, 2016
112
14
18
This guy clearly doesn't have a clue what an ad hominem fallacy is.
ad hominem
adjective

ad ho·mi·nem | \ (ˈ)ad-ˈhä-mə-ˌnem , -nəm\

Definition of ad hominem
(Entry 1 of 2)


1 : appealing to feelings or prejudices rather than intellect an ad hominem argument



2 : marked by or being an attack on an opponent's character rather than by an answer to the contentions made made an ad hominem personal attack on his rival
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
20,617
11,326
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ad hominem
adjective

ad ho·mi·nem | \ (ˈ)ad-ˈhä-mə-ˌnem , -nəm\

Definition of ad hominem
(Entry 1 of 2)

1: appealing to feelings or prejudices rather than intellect
an ad hominem argument

2: marked by or being an attack on an opponent's character rather than by an answer to the contentions made made an ad hominem personal attack on his rival
Posthuman's post was nowhere near being an ad hominem comment, so your use of it was in error. Now that you know what it is, perhaps you'll use it correctly. Maybe you'll even refrain from making ad hominem comments yourself.
 

2Pillars

Junior Member
Jan 28, 2016
112
14
18
I will add that understanding it in terms of descendants of seth/cain I found relatively boring. Sensible...but not nearly as exciting.

This time limit for editing posts gets annoying ;)


Ok, I get that you feel a burden for this. Can I ask what the relevancy is for this burden and how it impacts our walk?

It's almost like Young earth/old earth theory.

Would be helpful.
Dear Mii,

No, I really do not conconsider my postings of what I believe to be God's Truth a "Burden". In fact, it makes me very happy, especially, when I see other subscribers of traditional Goatherder's Theology (those who can NOT support their views with Scripture) get offended because my Biblical Stand is contrary to their teachings... and will try to refute my posts in vain attempt to defend their teachings.

I thought it's very important to learn the Beginning of Genesis (1 &2) - in order to have a solid ground to stand on and be able to walk straight accordingly - which I am still learning and have the tendency to walk crookedly at times... and not on a straight line/path... Oh well... Nobody says.. it would be easy...lol

God bless
 
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2Pillars

Junior Member
Jan 28, 2016
112
14
18
Scripture also tells us HOW and WHEN the prehistoric people on our Earth inherited the Human intelligence which is unique to Adam and his descendants. God calls prehistoric people whose origin was in the water on Day 5, sons of God. Gen 1:21

The sons of God (prehistoric mankind) married and produced the Humans on the first Earth, which was totally destroyed in the Flood. Genesis 4 tells us that Cain married and produced Enoch, his son, with a woman who could ONLY have brought forth from the water, as God told us in Gen 1:21.

Today's Science confirms that EVERY living creature MUST have water to live since EVERY cell in our body would die without it. No Ancient Man could have possibly known this. Read it for yourself:

Gen. 6:4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God (prehistoric mankind) came in unto the daughters of men (Heb-Adam), and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

The giants were giants intellectually as is shown at the end of the verse. They were the Humans of the first Earth, and they had agriculture, smelting, city building, and technology with little of NO evolution. Adam farmed with NO evolution, and Cain built a city with NO evolution, showing that Human intelligence is Superior to ANY creature made from the water.

The fulfillment of the prophecy of "and also after that" was fulfilled when Noah brought the human intelligence of Adam to Northern Mesopotamia in the mountains of Ararat. This happened some 10k years ago and the FIRST human cities and the FIRST agriculture, and the ONLY Human civilization on our Earth, PROVES it.

SUDDENLY, the sons of God, (prehistoric man) evolved the Human intelligence of Adam and changed from animal to Human intelligence. Prehistoric man settled down, built houses, cities, and developed math and writing, proving that anything is possible IF you have the intelligence of the first Human, Adam. Below is the empirical record of the arrival of the first Humans on this Earth:

Map: Fertile Cresent, 9000 to 4500 BCE.... http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/fertilemap.html

In less than 1% of the time since the sons of God diverged from Chimps, on this Planet, they went from Caves to the Moon and back, and yet Evolutionists and Religionist seem to be totally ignorant of this Fact. Humans also inherited the ERVs of the common ancestor of Chimps BUT Humans did NOT evolve from the common ancestor, but from our own common ancestor whose name is Adam.

Our God is an Awesome God
Science is studying the evolution of the sons of God (prehistoric mankind) INSTEAD of Humans, who are the descendants of Adam, the common ancestor of ALL Humans

Today's Evols and some Religionist are totally ignorant that Human blood was contaminated by the blood of the common ancestor of Apes because Noah's grandsons had NO other humans to marry. They married the descendants of the sons of God (Prehistoric people) who were ALREADY here when Noah arrived. In the past, some 10-11k years ago, Humans have been scattered over the whole face of our Planet. Gen 11:9

Adam was formed of the dust of the ground on the 3rd Day, the SAME Day as the Big Bang of our Cosmos, or some 13.8 Billion years ago. Adam was made with a higher intelligence level than ANY creature whose origin was in the water on the 5th Day, because Adam had an intelligence like God's. Gen 3:22

Of course, it is IMPOSSIBLE for Adam, the first Human, to have evolved from the common ancestor of Apes since our Earth is only 4.53 Billion years old, and Adam had been around for Billions of years before then.

Adam's direct descendant, Noah, arrived on our Earth - after their world was totally destroyed in the flood - some 10-11k years ago. Human civilization, on this Planet, can be traced to Noah’s arrival in the vicinity of Mt. Ararat. History agrees and odd man out is the False ToE and Religionist which are "willingly ignorant" 2Pe 3:5 of our true Human origins. You can read of the sexual compatibility of the sons of God (prehistoric mankind) and Adam's descendants - since they both are Made of Flesh- in Genesis 6:1-4.

God Bless
 

wolfwint

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2014
2,915
673
113
I will add that understanding it in terms of descendants of seth/cain I found relatively boring. Sensible...but not nearly as exciting.

This time limit for editing posts gets annoying ;)





Ok, I get that you feel a burden for this. Can I ask what the relevancy is for this burden and how it impacts our walk?

It's almost like Young earth/old earth theory.

Would be helpful.
Science is studying the evolution of the sons of God (prehistoric mankind) INSTEAD of Humans, who are the descendants of Adam, the common ancestor of ALL Humans

Today's Evols and some Religionist are totally ignorant that Human blood was contaminated by the blood of the common ancestor of Apes because Noah's grandsons had NO other humans to marry. They married the descendants of the sons of God (Prehistoric people) who were ALREADY here when Noah arrived. In the past, some 10-11k years ago, Humans have been scattered over the whole face of our Planet. Gen 11:9

Adam was formed of the dust of the ground on the 3rd Day, the SAME Day as the Big Bang of our Cosmos, or some 13.8 Billion years ago. Adam was made with a higher intelligence level than ANY creature whose origin was in the water on the 5th Day, because Adam had an intelligence like God's. Gen 3:22

Of course, it is IMPOSSIBLE for Adam, the first Human, to have evolved from the common ancestor of Apes since our Earth is only 4.53 Billion years old, and Adam had been around for Billions of years before then.

Adam's direct descendant, Noah, arrived on our Earth - after their world was totally destroyed in the flood - some 10-11k years ago. Human civilization, on this Planet, can be traced to Noah’s arrival in the vicinity of Mt. Ararat. History agrees and odd man out is the False ToE and Religionist which are "willingly ignorant" 2Pe 3:5 of our true Human origins. You can read of the sexual compatibility of the sons of God (prehistoric mankind) and Adam's descendants - since they both are Made of Flesh- in Genesis 6:1-4.

God Bless
Now I am shure, you read to much Sience fiction.
You are not based on Gods word.
You are mixing scripture with men "wisedom", sience and history. To get this.
You just ignoring Genesis 1,9-13 there is nothing written about Adam. And you ignoring genesis 9,8-17 where God promissed never again to judge with water. You said the flood was not in our universe.
Thats sience fiction!
 

2Pillars

Junior Member
Jan 28, 2016
112
14
18
Now I am shure, you read to much Sience fiction.
You are not based on Gods word.
You are mixing scripture with men "wisedom", sience and history. To get this.
You just ignoring Genesis 1,9-13 there is nothing written about Adam. And you ignoring genesis 9,8-17 where God promissed never again to judge with water. You said the flood was not in our universe.
Thats sience fiction!
It seems to me that you are also fulfilling the prophecy below.

Unbelievers and Christian Pretenders CANNOT understand Scripture because they don't have the Holy Spirit to guide them into God's Truth. 1Co 2:14 KJV This is because one MUST have the Gift of Faith from the Father. Eph 2:8-9 KJV *Not of our own works lest any man boast.

You should stick to man's knowledge, simply because, your understanding of Scripture is very poor and woefully lacking in spite of my spoon feeding you with my answers in reference to my postings.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
33,041
11,297
113
ad hominem
adjective

ad ho·mi·nem | \ (ˈ)ad-ˈhä-mə-ˌnem , -nəm\

Definition of ad hominem
(Entry 1 of 2)


1 : appealing to feelings or prejudices rather than intellect an ad hominem argument



2 : marked by or being an attack on an opponent's character rather than by an answer to the contentions made made an ad hominem personal attack on his rival
Yes but what is a goatherder?
 

wolfwint

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2014
2,915
673
113
It seems to me that you are also fulfilling the prophecy below.

Unbelievers and Christian Pretenders CANNOT understand Scripture because they don't have the Holy Spirit to guide them into God's Truth. 1Co 2:14 KJV This is because one MUST have the Gift of Faith from the Father. Eph 2:8-9 KJV *Not of our own works lest any man boast.

You should stick to man's knowledge, simply because, your understanding of Scripture is very poor and woefully lacking in spite of my spoon feeding you with my answers in reference to my postings.
Sorry to say, claiming such sience fiction as biblical truth is shocking me.
I know maby little from the word of God in your eyes. But I create not such a lie, as you do if you claim that your view is biblical truth.
You are even not able, to show me where Adam is mentioned in the biblical text from the 3rd day of creation.(Genesis 1, 9-13) as you claim he was created at the 3rd day.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
20,617
11,326
113
Science is studying the evolution of the sons of God (prehistoric mankind) INSTEAD of Humans, who are the descendants of Adam, the common ancestor of ALL Humans

Adam was formed of the dust of the ground on the 3rd Day, the SAME Day as the Big Bang of our Cosmos, or some 13.8 Billion years ago. Adam was made with a higher intelligence level than ANY creature whose origin was in the water on the 5th Day, because Adam had an intelligence like God's.
Wow. Every day you amaze me more with your ridiculous, unscientific, and unbiblical ideas.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
20,617
11,326
113
It seems to me that you are also fulfilling the prophecy below.

Unbelievers and Christian Pretenders CANNOT understand Scripture because they don't have the Holy Spirit to guide them into God's Truth. 1Co 2:14 KJV This is because one MUST have the Gift of Faith from the Father. Eph 2:8-9 KJV *Not of our own works lest any man boast.

You should stick to man's knowledge, simply because, your understanding of Scripture is very poor and woefully lacking in spite of my spoon feeding you with my answers in reference to my postings.
Clear evidence of arrogance.
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
10,830
7,067
113
Dear Dino,

Since yous style of debating is based dishonesty; distortion of facts and EDITION of other' recorded stands / quotes - for for fallacy of argument, therefore, this is to let you know that... you have been included on my IGNORE LIST.

I thought I let you know for courtesy purposes, since I don't have time to deal with such person - nothing but BLUFF.... BYE