Distinctives of Dispensationalism
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Yes there is Zone. There will be a Pre-trib. Rapture.
1 Thess. 4 and 1 Cor. 15 both teach a Rapture (catching away) of the body of Christ.
In the Church Age, there is one body, consisting of both Jews and Gentiles in Christ (Gal. 3:28).
But in the time of Jacob's trouble, there are two distinct bodies. Read Rev. 7.
Something changes. There is a Dispensational change that occurs at the Rapture.
what changes?
why the change?
why does the church have to be gone?
how do the jews get saved?
who escapes the mark?
who populates the earth?
are you on the earth?
in a glorified body?
is there sins and death and war - or peace and long life?
how long is the Millennium?
exactly 1,000 years?
then how would anyone not know the exact hour and minute of the Second Comin.....hold it....there is no secodn coming...how does the 1,000 years END?
please post the scriptures on that.
this theology is a joke.
why the change?
why does the church have to be gone?
how do the jews get saved?
who escapes the mark?
who populates the earth?
are you on the earth?
in a glorified body?
is there sins and death and war - or peace and long life?
how long is the Millennium?
exactly 1,000 years?
then how would anyone not know the exact hour and minute of the Second Comin.....hold it....there is no secodn coming...how does the 1,000 years END?
please post the scriptures on that.
this theology is a joke.
It was? I thought Isaiah said this
Isaiah 53
Who has believed our message(A)
and to whom has the arm(B) of the Lord been revealed?(C)
2 He grew up before him like a tender shoot,(D)
and like a root(E) out of dry ground.
He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him,
nothing in his appearance(F) that we should desire him.
3 He was despised and rejected by mankind,
a man of suffering,(G) and familiar with pain.(H)
Like one from whom people hide(I) their faces
he was despised,(J) and we held him in low esteem.
4 Surely he took up our pain
and bore our suffering,(K)
yet we considered him punished by God,(L)
stricken by him, and afflicted.(M)
5 But he was pierced(N) for our transgressions,(O)
he was crushed(P) for our iniquities;
the punishment(Q) that brought us peace(R) was on him,
and by his wounds(S) we are healed.(T)
6 We all, like sheep, have gone astray,(U)
each of us has turned to our own way;(V)
and the Lord has laid on him
the iniquity(W) of us all.
7 He was oppressed(X) and afflicted,
yet he did not open his mouth;(Y)
he was led like a lamb(Z) to the slaughter,(AA)
and as a sheep before its shearers is silent,
so he did not open his mouth.
8 By oppression[a] and judgment(AB) he was taken away.
Yet who of his generation protested?
For he was cut off from the land of the living;(AC)
for the transgression(AD) of my people he was punished.[b]
9 He was assigned a grave with the wicked,(AE)
and with the rich(AF) in his death,
though he had done no violence,(AG)
nor was any deceit in his mouth.(AH)
10 Yet it was the Lord’s will(AI) to crush(AJ) him and cause him to suffer,(AK)
and though the Lord makes[c] his life an offering for sin,(AL)
he will see his offspring(AM) and prolong his days,
and the will of the Lord will prosper(AN) in his hand.
11 After he has suffered,(AO)
he will see the light(AP) of life[d] and be satisfied[e];
by his knowledge[f] my righteous servant(AQ) will justify(AR) many,
and he will bear their iniquities.(AS)
12 Therefore I will give him a portion among the great,[g](AT)
and he will divide the spoils(AU) with the strong,[h]
because he poured out his life unto death,(AV)
and was numbered with the transgressors.(AW)
For he bore(AX) the sin of many,(AY)
and made intercession(AZ) for the transgressors.
Who has believed our message(A)
and to whom has the arm(B) of the Lord been revealed?(C)
2 He grew up before him like a tender shoot,(D)
and like a root(E) out of dry ground.
He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him,
nothing in his appearance(F) that we should desire him.
3 He was despised and rejected by mankind,
a man of suffering,(G) and familiar with pain.(H)
Like one from whom people hide(I) their faces
he was despised,(J) and we held him in low esteem.
4 Surely he took up our pain
and bore our suffering,(K)
yet we considered him punished by God,(L)
stricken by him, and afflicted.(M)
5 But he was pierced(N) for our transgressions,(O)
he was crushed(P) for our iniquities;
the punishment(Q) that brought us peace(R) was on him,
and by his wounds(S) we are healed.(T)
6 We all, like sheep, have gone astray,(U)
each of us has turned to our own way;(V)
and the Lord has laid on him
the iniquity(W) of us all.
7 He was oppressed(X) and afflicted,
yet he did not open his mouth;(Y)
he was led like a lamb(Z) to the slaughter,(AA)
and as a sheep before its shearers is silent,
so he did not open his mouth.
8 By oppression[a] and judgment(AB) he was taken away.
Yet who of his generation protested?
For he was cut off from the land of the living;(AC)
for the transgression(AD) of my people he was punished.[b]
9 He was assigned a grave with the wicked,(AE)
and with the rich(AF) in his death,
though he had done no violence,(AG)
nor was any deceit in his mouth.(AH)
10 Yet it was the Lord’s will(AI) to crush(AJ) him and cause him to suffer,(AK)
and though the Lord makes[c] his life an offering for sin,(AL)
he will see his offspring(AM) and prolong his days,
and the will of the Lord will prosper(AN) in his hand.
11 After he has suffered,(AO)
he will see the light(AP) of life[d] and be satisfied[e];
by his knowledge[f] my righteous servant(AQ) will justify(AR) many,
and he will bear their iniquities.(AS)
12 Therefore I will give him a portion among the great,[g](AT)
and he will divide the spoils(AU) with the strong,[h]
because he poured out his life unto death,(AV)
and was numbered with the transgressors.(AW)
For he bore(AX) the sin of many,(AY)
and made intercession(AZ) for the transgressors.
zone - I believe the Bible is written to three distinct classes of people - the Jews, the Gentiles and the Church of God. When either the Jew or the Gentile confesses Jesus as Lord and believes God raised him from the dead; they belong to the body, the Church of God.
I am not sure what you mean by 'distinctive' but here was what I posted on the other dispensation thread.
"Of and relating to Dispensation
Basically - (oikonomia) refers to the act of administering. The word was used of management or administration of a household. When used in the NT it is either the ACT of administrating or the TIME the act of administration is carried out. It is translated "stewardship" in Luke 16:2,3,4 and relates to the job of a steward. A steward administers or disperses duties of the household i.e. he is accountable for all things consisted in running a household; delegating jobs to servants, finances, generally making sure that things ran smoothly. Not every steward would have the same responsibility; it would depend on how his "boss" would want him to administer or dispense responsibility within the household. This can also be said of a person regarding the running of governmental affairs.
oikonomia is also translated administration/dispensation. In the following scripture administration and dispensation can be interchangeable both having the same meaning: 1 Corinthians 9:17, Eph. 1:16, Eph. 3:2, Col. 1:25
Definitions from Webster's Dictionary 1828:
steward - a man employed in great families to manage the household
administration - 1) The act of administering; direction; management; the conducting of any office or employment 2) The executive part of government, consisting in the exercise of the constitutional and legal powers, the general superintendance of national affairs and the enforcement of laws 3) The persons collectively who are entrusted with the execution of laws, the chief magistrate and his council; or the council alone 4) dispensation; distribution, exhibition of the sacrament or of grace 5) the management of the estate (of an intestate person), under a commission from proper authority, this management consists in collecting debts, paying debts (and legacies and distributing the property among the heirs)
dispensation - 1) distribution; the act of dealing out to different persons or places 2) the dealing of God to his creatures; the distribution of good and evil, natural or moral in the divine government 3) the granting of a license or the license itself to do what is forbidden by laws or canons or to omit something which is commanded; that is the dispensing with a law or canon or the exemption of a particular person from the obligation to comply with its injunctions 4) that which is dispensed or bestowed; a system of principles and rites enjoined; as the Mosaic dispensation, the gospel dispensation including the former Levitical law and rites, the latter the scheme of redemption by Christ.
That is the totality of what the word "oikonomia" means.
So speaking only for myself and my understanding - There are three distinct classes of people in the word of God - Jews, Gentiles and the church of God (1 Cor. 10:32) God dealt with each class of people differently and at different times (dispensations/administrations) through different means. What He may have said to one group is written for my learning, i.e. I can learn from what was said but it may not be applicable to me specifically.
I hope this makes sense!"
I am not sure what you mean by 'distinctive' but here was what I posted on the other dispensation thread.
"Of and relating to Dispensation
Basically - (oikonomia) refers to the act of administering. The word was used of management or administration of a household. When used in the NT it is either the ACT of administrating or the TIME the act of administration is carried out. It is translated "stewardship" in Luke 16:2,3,4 and relates to the job of a steward. A steward administers or disperses duties of the household i.e. he is accountable for all things consisted in running a household; delegating jobs to servants, finances, generally making sure that things ran smoothly. Not every steward would have the same responsibility; it would depend on how his "boss" would want him to administer or dispense responsibility within the household. This can also be said of a person regarding the running of governmental affairs.
oikonomia is also translated administration/dispensation. In the following scripture administration and dispensation can be interchangeable both having the same meaning: 1 Corinthians 9:17, Eph. 1:16, Eph. 3:2, Col. 1:25
Definitions from Webster's Dictionary 1828:
steward - a man employed in great families to manage the household
administration - 1) The act of administering; direction; management; the conducting of any office or employment 2) The executive part of government, consisting in the exercise of the constitutional and legal powers, the general superintendance of national affairs and the enforcement of laws 3) The persons collectively who are entrusted with the execution of laws, the chief magistrate and his council; or the council alone 4) dispensation; distribution, exhibition of the sacrament or of grace 5) the management of the estate (of an intestate person), under a commission from proper authority, this management consists in collecting debts, paying debts (and legacies and distributing the property among the heirs)
dispensation - 1) distribution; the act of dealing out to different persons or places 2) the dealing of God to his creatures; the distribution of good and evil, natural or moral in the divine government 3) the granting of a license or the license itself to do what is forbidden by laws or canons or to omit something which is commanded; that is the dispensing with a law or canon or the exemption of a particular person from the obligation to comply with its injunctions 4) that which is dispensed or bestowed; a system of principles and rites enjoined; as the Mosaic dispensation, the gospel dispensation including the former Levitical law and rites, the latter the scheme of redemption by Christ.
That is the totality of what the word "oikonomia" means.
So speaking only for myself and my understanding - There are three distinct classes of people in the word of God - Jews, Gentiles and the church of God (1 Cor. 10:32) God dealt with each class of people differently and at different times (dispensations/administrations) through different means. What He may have said to one group is written for my learning, i.e. I can learn from what was said but it may not be applicable to me specifically.
I hope this makes sense!"
me tinks the explanation for that is Jesus was the suffering servant, not the king.
or something.
and He's STILL not King.
cough.
The False Assumptions Of Dispensationalism
Dispensationalism is a complicated system of belief about the "last days," the Jewish nation, the millennium, and other related subjects. This system is extremely popular and heavily promoted in North America. I will show below that the system of Dispensationalism is built on false assumptions about the Scripture. If ANY of their assumptions are wrong then their entire system collapses like a house of cards
cont
Assumption One
Dispensationalism assumes God deals differently with people in different time periods called dispensations [hence the name]. Although there is some disagreement among dispensationalists, most agree that there are seven distinct dispensations. The dealings of God with mankind are seen as separate - with perhaps some overlap.
Is God's plan really broken up into different ways of dealing with people at different times? This is a dangerous assumption to make because it means that God is unpredictable. He has had different unrelated plans in the past and may then have different plans in the future. It also means that salvation in some of these dispensations was possible without the cross. Some people are saved, in this view, simply because of their national heritage.
"And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:" Mark 12:29
One God means one plan for all time and eternity.
"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." John 14:6
There is only one way to God: Jesus Christ. The Old Testament saints looked forward in faith to what Christ would do on the Cross and we, in the New Testament era, look back in faith to what He did do.
As we study in detail in Covenants, God does not have separate methods of dealing with people in different dispensations, instead He has one unfolding plan revealed in different stages. Each stage builds on the one which has gone before and expands it.
cont
Dispensationalism assumes God deals differently with people in different time periods called dispensations [hence the name]. Although there is some disagreement among dispensationalists, most agree that there are seven distinct dispensations. The dealings of God with mankind are seen as separate - with perhaps some overlap.
Is God's plan really broken up into different ways of dealing with people at different times? This is a dangerous assumption to make because it means that God is unpredictable. He has had different unrelated plans in the past and may then have different plans in the future. It also means that salvation in some of these dispensations was possible without the cross. Some people are saved, in this view, simply because of their national heritage.
"And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:" Mark 12:29
One God means one plan for all time and eternity.
"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." John 14:6
There is only one way to God: Jesus Christ. The Old Testament saints looked forward in faith to what Christ would do on the Cross and we, in the New Testament era, look back in faith to what He did do.
As we study in detail in Covenants, God does not have separate methods of dealing with people in different dispensations, instead He has one unfolding plan revealed in different stages. Each stage builds on the one which has gone before and expands it.
cont
Assumption Two
Dispensationalism assumes there is more than one way to God. In particular, the natural Jews are seen as God's special people and are saved because of who they are, not because of Christ's work on the cross. Some go so far as to imply that if the Jews had accepted Jesus the cross would not have been necessary at all.
"And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission." Heb. 9:22
Without Christ's shed blood no one could be saved: Jew or Gentile.
"And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world." Rev. 13:8
The atoning death of Christ was God's plan from the beginning of the world.
cont
Dispensationalism assumes there is more than one way to God. In particular, the natural Jews are seen as God's special people and are saved because of who they are, not because of Christ's work on the cross. Some go so far as to imply that if the Jews had accepted Jesus the cross would not have been necessary at all.
"And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission." Heb. 9:22
Without Christ's shed blood no one could be saved: Jew or Gentile.
"And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world." Rev. 13:8
The atoning death of Christ was God's plan from the beginning of the world.
cont
Assumption Three
Dispensationalism assumes that God has not yet fulfilled His promise of Land to Abraham.
"And the LORD appeared unto Abram, and said, Unto thy seed will I give this land: and there builded he an altar unto the LORD, who appeared unto him." Gen. 12:7
"And the LORD said unto me, Arise, take thy journey before the people, that they may go in and possess the land, which I sware unto their fathers to give unto them." Deut.10:11
God told Moses that He was about to give the land to the children of Israel as He had promised.
"And the LORD gave unto Israel all the land which he sware to give unto their fathers; and they possessed it, and dwelt therein." Joshua 21:43
Scripture records that God fulfilled His promise to Abraham under Joshua.
"Blessed be the LORD, that hath given rest unto his people Israel, according to all that he promised: there hath not failed one word of all his good promise, which he promised by the hand of Moses his servant." 1 Kings 8:56
Israel possessed the land a SECOND time under David and Solomon.
To say that God has not yet fulfilled His promise to Abraham is to deny to plain teaching Scripture. In fact, God gave it to them twice as confirmed by Scripture and perhaps once again - not confirmed by Scripture - under the Macabees. God kept His promise!
cont
Dispensationalism assumes that God has not yet fulfilled His promise of Land to Abraham.
"And the LORD appeared unto Abram, and said, Unto thy seed will I give this land: and there builded he an altar unto the LORD, who appeared unto him." Gen. 12:7
"And the LORD said unto me, Arise, take thy journey before the people, that they may go in and possess the land, which I sware unto their fathers to give unto them." Deut.10:11
God told Moses that He was about to give the land to the children of Israel as He had promised.
"And the LORD gave unto Israel all the land which he sware to give unto their fathers; and they possessed it, and dwelt therein." Joshua 21:43
Scripture records that God fulfilled His promise to Abraham under Joshua.
"Blessed be the LORD, that hath given rest unto his people Israel, according to all that he promised: there hath not failed one word of all his good promise, which he promised by the hand of Moses his servant." 1 Kings 8:56
Israel possessed the land a SECOND time under David and Solomon.
To say that God has not yet fulfilled His promise to Abraham is to deny to plain teaching Scripture. In fact, God gave it to them twice as confirmed by Scripture and perhaps once again - not confirmed by Scripture - under the Macabees. God kept His promise!
cont
Assumption Four
Dispensationalism assumes there is a gap in the image in Dan. 2. For some mysterious reason the feet are disconnected from the legs. Daniel did not see this. He saw a complete image - no gap between the legs and the feet! Do you see one in the Scripture? Why would the Dispensationalist place a gap here? The only reason is to make Scripture fit into a prophetic agenda.
"This image's head was of fine gold, his breast and his arms of silver, his belly and his thighs of brass, His legs of iron, his feet part of iron and part of clay. Thou sawest till that a stone was cut out without hands, which smote the image upon his feet that were of iron and clay, and brake them to pieces. Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshing floors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them: and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth." Dan. 2:32-35
This beautiful picture of the kingdom of God [stone] being set up in the days of the Roman empire [at the death and resurrection of Christ] and growing until it fills the earth is twisted and distorted for sensationalistic thrills.
cont.
Dispensationalism assumes there is a gap in the image in Dan. 2. For some mysterious reason the feet are disconnected from the legs. Daniel did not see this. He saw a complete image - no gap between the legs and the feet! Do you see one in the Scripture? Why would the Dispensationalist place a gap here? The only reason is to make Scripture fit into a prophetic agenda.
"This image's head was of fine gold, his breast and his arms of silver, his belly and his thighs of brass, His legs of iron, his feet part of iron and part of clay. Thou sawest till that a stone was cut out without hands, which smote the image upon his feet that were of iron and clay, and brake them to pieces. Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshing floors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them: and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth." Dan. 2:32-35
This beautiful picture of the kingdom of God [stone] being set up in the days of the Roman empire [at the death and resurrection of Christ] and growing until it fills the earth is twisted and distorted for sensationalistic thrills.
cont.
Assumption Five
Dispensationalism assumes there is a gap in the Seventy Weeks. Look at this verse. Look at the context. Is there a gap? Did not God say 70 weeks ARE determined? Did He say 69 plus gap will make 70? Of course not! My God knows how to count. 70 follows 69.
"Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy." Dan. 9:24
Almost everyone agrees that the 69 weeks brings us to the time of Christ. The 70th week is then the time of Christ's ministry. If you look carefully at the above list you will see the Jesus did it all.
cont. through to 10
The False Assumptions Of Dispensationalism
Dispensationalism assumes there is a gap in the Seventy Weeks. Look at this verse. Look at the context. Is there a gap? Did not God say 70 weeks ARE determined? Did He say 69 plus gap will make 70? Of course not! My God knows how to count. 70 follows 69.
"Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy." Dan. 9:24
Almost everyone agrees that the 69 weeks brings us to the time of Christ. The 70th week is then the time of Christ's ministry. If you look carefully at the above list you will see the Jesus did it all.
cont. through to 10
The False Assumptions Of Dispensationalism
G
Scripture that speaks about two in the field and one taken, suddenly (in the blink of an eye?), must be false, ohzone ?
John wrote Revelation when he was an old man on the island of Patmos.
You are doing a WRONG chronology of the books of the bibles written by thinking Paul wrote Revelation pre 70 AD.
You can pull teeth by explaining that coincidences of quotes happen between Revelation and Hebrews, too, to formulate your reasoning for why John wrote Revelation (pre 70 A.D.) but that just stretches The Truth.
No, ohzone. ChosenHis? Where's he? He is not gone, he is right here speaking on c.c.. So are you, ohzone.
But, in a sudden way, like a THIEF in the night, Christ will come and rapture those who are His and then will be ALL kinds of signs and tribulations and events ,thus described by Revelation, as red, ashen, black, white horses, seals, bowls, plagues, yada, yada, yada.
Things, ohzone, NOT yet come, as Revelation 1 says, through John, speaking of words given by God of Jesus Christ, things that STILL need "to take place."
Indeed, you don't have to get into Revelation very far before the Truth of this great prophetic book is ENvisioned , like the VERY first verse, LOL.
Revelation 1:1
"The revelation from Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John, 2who testifies to everything he saw—that is, the word of God and the testimony of Jesus Christ. 3Blessed is the one who reads aloud the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear it and take to heart what is written in it, because the time is near."
Does Paul WRITE ABOUT THE SEVEN CHURCHES before 70 AD? I don't think so.
He's been ALL over the area, speaking to these churches that are in FAR AWAY locations from each other, like Ephesus church that is several HUNDRED miles from the church of Corinth and back then, forget the buggy, and, even, forget the horse, travel was ALL by foot .
Again, that's all nice and dandy to think that John wrote Revelation pre 70 AD but the Truth is that God had John write Revelation in John's LAST DAYS of living so that WE who were the generations after, or, 'servants' as Rev. 1 says, would understand the magnitude of events of the END TIMES .
All that is in Revelation is NOT for something that past so quietly.
Oh, no, Revelation does NOT go gently into that good night ! It's words of prophecy and vision SEAL the Truth that things are a-coming in the future.
GREAT events, ohzone, my oh MY ! Read Revelation in all its FULLNESS ! Those events that happen are PROFOUND, that will happen, that WILL TAKE PLACE.
Ohzone, they have not taken place yet, milady
So much more does Revelation speak of than just Christians in Jerusalem fleeing, and, just a temple going through destruction for 70 years, starting in 70 AD. So much more. Like I said, already, great things more, like plagues, bowls, 1/3 of Earth's POPULATON destroyed, two witnesses come and die for the cause of Christ, Beast, Lawless One, Satan. HEAVY , HEAVY stuff, till to come.............
No, no, no, DAniel nowhere speaks of that kind of thing, ohzone.
Sorry, it does not speak that way, no, no, no, milady. Nice thought though
--------------------
John wrote Revelation when he was an old man on the island of Patmos.
You are doing a WRONG chronology of the books of the bibles written by thinking Paul wrote Revelation pre 70 AD.
You can pull teeth by explaining that coincidences of quotes happen between Revelation and Hebrews, too, to formulate your reasoning for why John wrote Revelation (pre 70 A.D.) but that just stretches The Truth.
No, ohzone. ChosenHis? Where's he? He is not gone, he is right here speaking on c.c.. So are you, ohzone.
But, in a sudden way, like a THIEF in the night, Christ will come and rapture those who are His and then will be ALL kinds of signs and tribulations and events ,thus described by Revelation, as red, ashen, black, white horses, seals, bowls, plagues, yada, yada, yada.
Things, ohzone, NOT yet come, as Revelation 1 says, through John, speaking of words given by God of Jesus Christ, things that STILL need "to take place."
Indeed, you don't have to get into Revelation very far before the Truth of this great prophetic book is ENvisioned
, like the VERY first verse, LOL. Revelation 1:1
"The revelation from Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John, 2who testifies to everything he saw—that is, the word of God and the testimony of Jesus Christ. 3Blessed is the one who reads aloud the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear it and take to heart what is written in it, because the time is near."
Does Paul WRITE ABOUT THE SEVEN CHURCHES before 70 AD? I don't think so.
He's been ALL over the area, speaking to these churches that are in FAR AWAY locations from each other, like Ephesus church that is several HUNDRED miles from the church of Corinth and back then, forget the buggy, and, even, forget the horse, travel was ALL by foot .
Again, that's all nice and dandy to think that John wrote Revelation pre 70 AD but the Truth is that God had John write Revelation in John's LAST DAYS of living so that WE who were the generations after, or, 'servants' as Rev. 1 says, would understand the magnitude of events of the END TIMES .
All that is in Revelation is NOT for something that past so quietly.
Oh, no, Revelation does NOT go gently into that good night !
It's words of prophecy and vision SEAL the Truth that things are a-coming in the future. GREAT events, ohzone, my oh MY ! Read Revelation in all its FULLNESS ! Those events that happen are PROFOUND, that will happen, that WILL TAKE PLACE.
Ohzone, they have not taken place yet, milady
So much more does Revelation speak of than just Christians in Jerusalem fleeing, and, just a temple going through destruction for 70 years, starting in 70 AD. So much more. Like I said, already, great things more, like plagues, bowls, 1/3 of Earth's POPULATON destroyed, two witnesses come and die for the cause of Christ, Beast, Lawless One, Satan. HEAVY , HEAVY stuff, till to come.............
No, no, no, DAniel nowhere speaks of that kind of thing, ohzone.
Sorry, it does not speak that way, no, no, no, milady. Nice thought though
--------------------
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If Jesus isn't currently king, then these are scribal errors of epic..epic status..
Matt 28
[SUP]18 [/SUP]And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. [SUP]19 [/SUP]Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in[SUP][b][/SUP] the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, [SUP]20 [/SUP]teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.”
Rev 1:5
[SUP]5 [/SUP]and from Jesus Christ the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of kings on earth.
Hebrews 2
[SUP]5 [/SUP]For it was not to angels that God subjected the world to come, of which we are speaking. [SUP]6 [/SUP]It has been testified somewhere,
“What is man, that you are mindful of him,
or the son of man, that you care for him?
[SUP]7 [/SUP]You made him for a little while lower than the angels;
you have crowned him with glory and honor,[SUP][a][/SUP]
[SUP]8 [/SUP] putting everything in subjection under his feet.”
Now in putting everything in subjection to him, he left nothing outside his control. At present, we do not yet see everything in subjection to him. [SUP]9 [/SUP]But we see him who for a little while was made lower than the angels, namely Jesus, crowned with glory and honor because of the suffering of death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.
Acts 2
[SUP]36 [/SUP]Let all the house of Israel therefore know for certain that God has made him both Lord and Christ, this Jesus whom you crucified.”
Matt 28
[SUP]18 [/SUP]And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. [SUP]19 [/SUP]Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in[SUP][b][/SUP] the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, [SUP]20 [/SUP]teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.”
Rev 1:5
[SUP]5 [/SUP]and from Jesus Christ the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of kings on earth.
Hebrews 2
[SUP]5 [/SUP]For it was not to angels that God subjected the world to come, of which we are speaking. [SUP]6 [/SUP]It has been testified somewhere,
“What is man, that you are mindful of him,
or the son of man, that you care for him?
[SUP]7 [/SUP]You made him for a little while lower than the angels;
you have crowned him with glory and honor,[SUP][a][/SUP]
[SUP]8 [/SUP] putting everything in subjection under his feet.”
Now in putting everything in subjection to him, he left nothing outside his control. At present, we do not yet see everything in subjection to him. [SUP]9 [/SUP]But we see him who for a little while was made lower than the angels, namely Jesus, crowned with glory and honor because of the suffering of death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.
Acts 2
[SUP]36 [/SUP]Let all the house of Israel therefore know for certain that God has made him both Lord and Christ, this Jesus whom you crucified.”
But,but,but then how could David the man after God's own heart say things like this?
Psalm 51
1 Have mercy on me, O God,
according to your unfailing love;
according to your great compassion
blot out my transgressions.
2
and cleanse me from my sin.
according to your unfailing love;
according to your great compassion
blot out my transgressions.
2
Wash away all my iniquityand cleanse me from my sin.
3 For I know my transgressions,
and my sin is always before me.
4 Against you, you only, have I sinned
and done what is evil in your sight;
so you are right in your verdict
and justified when you judge.
5 Surely I was sinful at birth,
sinful from the time my mother conceived me.
6
you taught me wisdom in that secret place.
and my sin is always before me.
4 Against you, you only, have I sinned
and done what is evil in your sight;
so you are right in your verdict
and justified when you judge.
5 Surely I was sinful at birth,
sinful from the time my mother conceived me.
6
Yet you desired faithfulness even in the womb;you taught me wisdom in that secret place.
7 Cleanse me with hyssop, and I will be clean;
wash me, and I will be whiter than snow.
8 Let me hear joy and gladness;
let the bones you have crushed rejoice.
9
and blot out all my iniquity.
wash me, and I will be whiter than snow.
8 Let me hear joy and gladness;
let the bones you have crushed rejoice.
9
Hide your face from my sinsand blot out all my iniquity.
10 Create in me a pure heart, O God,
and renew a steadfast spirit within me.
11 Do not cast me from your presence
or take your Holy Spirit from me.
12
and grant me a willing spirit, to sustain me.
and renew a steadfast spirit within me.
11 Do not cast me from your presence
or take your Holy Spirit from me.
12
Restore to me the joy of your salvationand grant me a willing spirit, to sustain me.
13 Then I will teach transgressors your ways,
so that sinners will turn back to you.
14 Deliver me from the guilt of bloodshed, O God,
you who are God my Savior,
and my tongue will sing of your righteousness.
15 Open my lips, Lord,
and my mouth will declare your praise.
16 You do not delight in sacrifice, or I would bring it;
you do not take pleasure in burnt offerings.
17
a broken and contrite heart
you, God, will not despise.
so that sinners will turn back to you.
14 Deliver me from the guilt of bloodshed, O God,
you who are God my Savior,
and my tongue will sing of your righteousness.
15 Open my lips, Lord,
and my mouth will declare your praise.
16 You do not delight in sacrifice, or I would bring it;
you do not take pleasure in burnt offerings.
17
My sacrifice, O God, is[b] a broken spirit;a broken and contrite heart
you, God, will not despise.
18 May it please you to prosper Zion,
to build up the walls of Jerusalem.
19
in burnt offerings offered whole;
then bulls will be offered on your altar.
to build up the walls of Jerusalem.
19
Then you will delight in the sacrifices of the righteous,in burnt offerings offered whole;
then bulls will be offered on your altar.
Oooh!!!! Touched a nerve have we!!! Me thinks ya protest too much. That imaginary replacement theology you constructed is crumbling.
Now your relying on the 1st time of regathering after Egypt!? Ya mean BEFORE the KINGDOM of Israel even existed? TWIST, TWIST, TWIST Scripture. Heck, with that thinking wouldn't the 1st time be when Abraham 1st entered the land?
Further, enlighten me as to what "Islands of the sea" the Jews came back from after the Babylonian captivity, which you believe is the SECOND regathering?
K
It is easy for me to say (looking back) that all things pointed to the cross. Then again, maybe they didn't understand. However , from the fall of man a redeemer was promised, even Job said "I know my redeemer liveth" thousands of years before Christ. So, the cross was no surprise, but at the time of Christ, they were not looking for it. I mean come on, the sacrifice of a lamb, the snake on a pole, the stick that made the axe head swim, the escape goat. My God, the Psalms practically lay it out. I can't recall the passage, but twice they went up against their enemies and got spanked, then they gave sacrifice and God said "today I have delivered them into your hands". It's all about the cross, no denying that.
Look, this dispensation or that. Pre, mid, post. what does that do for me. what does the doctrine of men accomplish? what does my theology perform?
Therefore where can I boast? what can I show my intelligence in? What makes me big and bad?
All I or anyone else can do is humble himself at the foot of the cross.
The 25 year study of a theologian gains what over a 6th grade redneck that trust in the work of the cross?
Look, this dispensation or that. Pre, mid, post. what does that do for me. what does the doctrine of men accomplish? what does my theology perform?
Therefore where can I boast? what can I show my intelligence in? What makes me big and bad?
All I or anyone else can do is humble himself at the foot of the cross.
The 25 year study of a theologian gains what over a 6th grade redneck that trust in the work of the cross?