Distinctives of Dispensationalism

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zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
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DISPENSATIONALISTS: is Chosen's teaching true?
is this a distinctive of Dispensationalism?


Amen!!! That's right GreenNnice.

No true born again Christian will be on this earth for the time of Jacob's trouble.


But people still need to be warned about Tim Lahaye's heretical teaching that a person can still somehow be saved after taking the mark.
so, you're warning people who aren't saved - in advance, not to take the mark.
so when a billion people vanish, they'll gasp and run and read all your warnings and figure it out?

Chosen - please show me ONE SINGLE VERSE in the bible that says people disappear and the whole world is stunned and runs around trying to figure it out - anything like that at all.

the vanishing - where is it?

Because once we (the body of Christ) is gone. Those who are left behind are going to be searching for answers.
PLEASE DOCUMENT THIS.

where does it say this:

"Those who are left behind are going to be searching for answers."

or this:

Because once we (the body of Christ) is gone.
 
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zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
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Sorry, too, if I sound a bit snippy, I always start to go off a bit when someone accuses me of 'blasphemy,' NEVER a wise thing for one Christian to accuse of another, I don't care WHAT the scenario or contextual obligation is for the other party.
is Daniel 9 about Jesus Christ green?
if not Him, who is it about?
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
12,932
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i know this is hard for you:

Jeremiah 31:32
It will not be like the covenant I made with their ancestors when I took them by the hand to lead them out of Egypt, because they broke my covenant, though I was a husband to them," declares the LORD.


i know this is hard for you:



Thanks for confirming what I already knew. You have no answer. On other occasians you are only too happy to go on and on showing your great wisdom. When I see the "do your own homework" mantra from you I know the victory is won. Praise the Lord!

I truly pray God would soften your heart and open your understanding to the folly you have been entangled in. In Jesus name I pray. Amen
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
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Rev. 6:2 1st seal conquers with a peace plan.
green, this is hopefully for reasonably thought out and documented stuff.


please show me the PEACE PLAN. where is it?

Revelation 6
1Then I saw when the Lamb broke one of the seven seals, and I heard one of the four living creatures saying as with a voice of thunder, "Come." 2I looked, and behold, a white horse, and he who sat on it had a bow; and a crown was given to him, and he went out conquering and to conquer.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
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Thanks for confirming what I already knew. You have no answer. On other occasians you are only too happy to go on and on showing your great wisdom. When I see the "do your own homework" mantra from you I know the victory is won. Praise the Lord!

I truly pray God would soften your heart and open your understanding to the folly you have been entangled in. In Jesus name I pray. Amen
the answer?
to what?
you don't have a question.
you have junk televangelism and christian zionist cartoon theology.

start your own thread.

don't derail this one.
 
Dec 21, 2012
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Without you copy and pasting, tell me in YOUR own words why there is a country on Earth called Israel THIS day, in the same location that God gave them. How do you explain that?
"A hunter is someone with a gun and he forces you. Hitler was a hunter. That will be offensive to some people. :rolleyes: Well, dear heart, be offended: I didn't write it. Jeremiah wrote it. It was the truth ..." --John Hagee
 
Dec 26, 2012
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Thats the problem.

History does not show most of revelation (or many other prophesies) has happened. If it did, we would not be having this argument.


1. No one has ruled every nation tribe and language
2. Not until recently, has the ability for "all life" on earth been in danger of extinction by mans own evilm causing the need for Christ to return.
3. Not until recently has the ability to control the finances of everyone on earth been possible
4. At no time in history have the catastrophes and wars of the earth been so severe that the "kings of the nations hide under rocks and said, it is the day of Gods wrath, who can withstand it)

I can go on and on. The fact is. People want to take history and make it fit there interpretation. and not interpret the word and make their belief fit the word.
Sorry EG,

But many time the Bible says a kingdom was of the whole earth yet that kingdom did not cover the entire globe,only the entire the entire that was known to them.
Jeremiah 51

“How jBabylon5 is taken,kthe praise of the whole earth lseized!How Babylon has becomea horror among the nations!

41 “How [ap]Sheshak has been captured,
And the praise of the whole earth been seized!
How Babylon has become an object of horror among the nations!
42 “The [aq]sea has come up over Babylon;
She has been engulfed with its tumultuous waves.

Jeremiah 50

The noise of battle is in the land,
the noise of great destruction!
23​
How broken and shattered
is the hammer of the whole earth!

How desolate is Babylon
among the nations!


Jeremiah 25

17 So I took the cup from the Lord’s hand and made all the nations to whom he sent me drink it:
18 Jerusalem and the towns of Judah, its kings and officials, to make them a ruin and an object of horror and scorn, a curse[c]—as they are today;19 Pharaoh king of Egypt, his attendants, his officials and all his people,20 and all the foreign people there; all the kings of Uz; all the kings of the Philistines (those of Ashkelon, Gaza, Ekron, and the people left at Ashdod);21 Edom, Moab and Ammon;22 all the kings of Tyre and Sidon; the kings of the coastlands across the sea;23 Dedan, Tema, Buz and all who are in distant places[d];24 all the kings of Arabia and all the kings of the foreign people who live in the wilderness;25 all the kings of Zimri, Elam and Media;26 and all the kings of the north, near and far, one after the other—all the kingdoms on the face of the earth. And after all of them, the king of Sheshak[e] will drink it too.


Scripture defines scripture. John uses those same types words,yet Jeremiah would NOT gone to North America,South America,or the farthest parts of Asia,yet he clearly says ALL the Kingdoms of the earth.
 
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Rev.7:2-7th Seal: 144,000 Jewish males are anointed to evangelize the earth
[SUP]TRUMPETS[/SUP]
Cont

REVELATION 7

Dave: September 10, 2009/Adam: August 2011Scripture text for this study: Revelation 7
Notes from Adam were edited into this post in November 2009, and again in August 2011, and are in red:Background Note: Chapter 7 is an interlude between the sixth seal (6:12) and the seventh seal (8:1). Revelation 6 ends with a statement that the great day of the wrath of the Lord had come, along with a question about who could stand in that day. That question is answered here in this chapter.Verses 1-3: Here we see that four different angels have been given power to harm the earth and sea. However, with more judgment about to come, another angel intervenes and strictly commands the four angels to hold back this judgment until God’s servants could first be sealed on their foreheads. This intervening angel is said to have “the seal of the living God.” He also comes from the east. Why is that?One possibility relates to what we know from the history of the Jewish-Roman War (66-73 AD). During the 5-month siege on Jerusalem in 70 AD, Titus made his headquarters on the northern ridge of the Mount of Olives, which was on the eastern side of Jerusalem. Attack plans and strategies were made from this location, which Titus called “Lookout Hill” (Mount Scopus). From there he was able to look into the city over its fortified walls. It was also from there that the famous 10th Legion of Rome used catapults to launch huge stones weighing 75 – 100 pounds into the city (this will be discussed further in our study of Revelation 16), causing much devastation. Verses 4-8: What do we know about the 144,000 from the text?

  • They are “sealed” on their foreheads (verse 3; compare with Rev. 3:12, 13:16).
  • There are 12,000 from each of the twelve tribes of Israel.
  • They have been protected from the wrath to be poured out on the earth (verse 3).
Q: Where else does the Bible talk about His people being sealed?
A: Ephesians 1:13-14, Ezekiel 9:4-6.

In Steve Gregg’s book, “Revelation: Four Views (A Parallel Commentary),” he points to a remarkable parallel event, recorded by Ezekiel, which occurred shortly before Jerusalem fell the first time:
Jerusalem twice fell to invaders because of God’s judgment upon them: first, in 586 B.C., to the Babylonians; and second, in A.D. 70, to the Romans. Prior to the conquest in 586 B.C., God took care to identify His own and to separate them for safety during the holocaust. This fact was symbolically portrayed to Ezekiel in a vision of an angel marking God’s faithful with an ink mark on their foreheads. Following this marking, six angels with deadly weapons were dispatched against Jerusalem to slaughter its inhabitants (Ezekiel 9).Here a similar vision is given to John prior to the second destruction of Jerusalem in his own day. This time, before the four winds (v. 1) are unleashed upon Israel, God’s servants are sealed on their foreheads for their preservation… Those who survived the holocaust of A.D. 70 were those who possessed the seal of God (Eph. 1:13), that is, the Jewish believers in Christ (pp. 126, 128).
Steve Gregg also wrote about the believers in Jerusalem successfully escaping before Jerusalem’s destruction in 70 AD, just as Jesus warned them to do in Matthew 24:15-21 and Luke 21:20-24:
Just prior to the siege of Jerusalem in A.D. 70, the Jewish Christians in that city were warned by a prophetic oracle to flee from the city (echoing Jesus’ own warning in Luke 21:20ff). Historian Eusebius (c. 325) wrote: “The whole body, however, of the church at Jerusalem, having been commanded by a divine revelation, given to men of approved piety there before the war, removed from the city, and dwelt at a certain town beyond the Jordan, called Pella.”
The normative view among evangelical preterists is that this 144,000 is a symbolic number representing the full number of Jewish Christians who escaped the doomed city before its destruction. That this group lived in the first century is confirmed in another passage, which calls them the “firstfruits to God” (Rev. 14:4). Since the church age has been one long harvest of souls (Matt. 9:37f; John 4:35-38), the “firstfruits” must have come in at the beginning of this time (compare James 1:1, 18, which speaks of the Jewish believers as “firstfruits”). If this 144,000 referred to some future group living in the end times (as the futurists believe), one would expect them to be called the “last fruits.”
Regarding the escape of believers to Pella (Jordan) before 70 AD, more is written about that here:
http://kloposmasm.wordpress.com/2009/08/16/pp14-abomination-of-desolation/ and
http://kloposmasm.wordpress.com/2009/08/22/pp18-the-historical-events-leading-up-to-70-ad-part-2/
(includes a map)

The 144,000 are mentioned again in Rev 14:1-4. What additional information about this group do we find there?

  • They have the name of the Lamb and His Father’s name written on their foreheads.
  • They were redeemed from the earth.
  • They are virgins.
  • They follow the Lamb wherever He goes.
  • They are said to be redeemed from mankind as firstfruits for God and the Lamb.
  • In their mouth no lie was found.
Q: Who do scholars think that they are?
A:
According to proponents of the Pre-tribulation rapture view, they are Jewish believers brought to faith after Jesus returns and removes (raptures) the church from the earth. Some view the 144,000 as the church. According to John M. Frame and Vern S. Poythress, for example, the visions of the 144,000 and the international multitude are “complementary perspectives” on the Church.This view holds that the 144,000 and the group in 9-17 are the same people. Why this view is problematic to the leader of this study (Dave):

  • The group in 9-17 is “innumerable”; the group in 4-8 is numbered.
  • The group in 4-8 is from the 12 tribes of Israel; the group in 9-17 is from “all tribes and peoples and languages.
Kenneth Gentry, in his book, Before Jerusalem Fell (1998), says (pp. 232ff), ” The 144,000 are Christians of Jewish extraction.”

  • Jewish, because they are “in the land”
  • Jewish, because they are from the twelve tribes of Israel
  • Jewish, because they are contrasted with the multitude in 9-17
Verses 9-17: John then sees “a great multitude.” What do we know about this group from the text?

  • They are innumerable.
  • They come from all tribes and peoples and languages.
  • They are clothed in white robes.
  • They have palm branches in their hands.
  • They extol God for His salvation.
  • They are seen “coming out of the great tribulation”.
  • They are purified by the blood of the Lamb.
  • They are before the throne of God and serve Him night and day.
  • They are sheltered by His presence.
  • They no longer experience hunger or thirst.
  • They are no longer able to be overcome by heat.
  • The Lamb, who is said to be in the midst of the throne, is their shepherd.
  • He guides them to springs of living water (see John 4:14, 7:37-38; Isaiah 49:10).
  • God wipes away every tear from their eyes.
What is the great tribulation mentioned in verse 14?
A: Here are several views, depending on one’s interpretation of this term:


  • Futurist Pre-Tribulationist view: Seven years of suffering for those “left behind” after a future Rapture of the Church
  • Futurist Post-Tribulationist view: An “end-times” generation will suffer through a future 7-year outpouring of God’s wrath
  • Historicist view: The sufferings of the church from its inception (John 16:33)
  • Preterist view: A 3.5 year period that occurred in history, beginning with Nero’s declaration of war against Israel in February 67 AD until Jerusalem’s destruction in August 70 AD (Matthew 24:21; cf. Daniel 12:1, Jeremiah 30:7). This is our view, and more details can be seen in Part 3 of our series on the Olivet Discourse.
—————————————————————————————————————————————————————
It may be helpful to further clarify our reasons for believing that the predicted judgments alluded to here in this chapter were to be poured out primarily on the land of Israel. As noted above, one of the reasons Kenneth Gentry gave for seeing the 144,000 as believers of Jewish extraction was that they were shown to be “in the land,” a reference to verse 3 (some translations say “earth”).In our study of Revelation so far, we have suggested that many of the references to “the earth” in the book of Revelation are not meant to be taken as worldwide in scope, but as dealing instead with the land of Israel/Palestine. In a 3-part study on this subjectbeginning with this post, I have outlined nearly 20 instances where this appears to be the case.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
is Daniel 9 about Jesus Christ green?
if not Him, who is it about?
The People of daniel. and the City of Jerusalem.

Trying to say it is about anything else is like trying to say Zone is praying about her family. who is in dire need of God. And to whome God made special promises to. Even though Zone admits her family is in sin, and does not deserve to have pleasure and peace in the promise God made her family. She ius asking for his mercy.

and God comes and gives her an answer about someone else. Which has nothing to do with her family at all. And in the long run. God is going to replace the promise he made with her family, and give it to another family.

I doubt zone would be very happy with Gods answer. Since he ignored her family, And his promise to her family
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
green, this is hopefully for reasonably thought out and documented stuff.


please show me the PEACE PLAN. where is it?

Revelation 6
1Then I saw when the Lamb broke one of the seven seals, and I heard one of the four living creatures saying as with a voice of thunder, "Come." 2I looked, and behold, a white horse, and he who sat on it had a bow; and a crown was given to him, and he went out conquering and to conquer.
true. not sure where he got that.

This is the picture of a king on a white horse. going out to conquer. the image of the fake messiah. going out to conquer the world and bring it under his subjection, and make the world worship him. In great contrast to Christ himself. who also comes on a white horse with his robed dipped in blood. Who does the final conquering of all nations. and those left willingly worship him. as he destroys all who appose him.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
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B. Second Seal: Conflict on Earth (6:3-4)[/CENTER]Q: Does the same type of warfare take place when the second seal is opened, or is there a difference?

A: This time the people are not attacked by an outside force, but they slay one another instead.Mark A. Copeland, a Preterist, says of this passage that it “[r]epresents civil war, in which people would kill one another, such as God used in His judgment against Egypt (Isa 19:1-4).”

This certainly fits the language used here. As a historical fact, in the fall/winter of 67 AD a brutal civil war broke out in Jerusalem and Judea between the revolutionaries and those who wanted to maintain peace with Rome. Jerusalem was eventually divided into three factions led by [1] Eleazar, who was over the Zealots [2] John of Gischala, who was over the Galileans, and [3] Simon, who was over the Idumeans. It remained this way until the city was destroyed. The conditions were awful. In one night 8500 people were killed, and their bodies were cast outside of Jerusalem without being buried.

The outer temple was “overflowing with blood” and the inner court even had pools of blood in it. Homes and gravesites were looted (For more information, see Footnote #1).Steve Gregg, in his book “Revelation: Four Views (A Parallel Commentary),” quotes from J. Stuart Russell, who says (p. 106),

The Jewish war, under Vespasian, commenced at the furthest distance from Jerusalem in Galilee, and gradually drew nearer and nearer to the doomed city. The Romans were not the only agents in the work of slaughter that depopulated the land; hostile factions among the Jews themselves turned their arms against one another, so that it might be said that “every man’s hand was against his brother.”

Gregg also quotes Josephus (from Wars, 2:18:2): “Every city was divided into two armies encamped one against another…so the daytime was spent in shedding of blood, and the night in fear.” Gregg himself adds (p. 108) that these verses in Revelation 6:3-4 substantiate the words of Jesus when He wept over Jerusalem:

The Jews had rejected the Prince of Peace, who had said, while weeping over Jerusalem, “If you had known…the things that make for your peace! But now they are hidden from your eyes” (Luke 19:42). The next words Jesus spoke predicted the Roman armies invading the land and leveling the city of Jerusalem (Luke 19:43-44). What could speak more directly to the fulfillment of this threat than for Revelation to speak, as here, of one sent to take peace (v. 4) from the land?

Zechariah also had predicted this as a consequence of the Jews’ rejection of Christ (Zech. 11:10-14).At this point, it would be valuable to note that the Preterist viewpoint (which sees this as fulfilled in the land of Israel in the first-century) would be less plausible if the phrase “the earth” here refers to the entire globe.

In chapter one,[2] we already got the sense that the predicted events in this book were to be localized, and that they had to do primarily with the land of Israel/Palestine as it existed in John’s day. You may recall that we compared the language of Revelation 1:7 with Matthew 24:30 and Zechariah 12:10-14, and saw (for example) that the term “tribes of the earth” clearly had to do with the tribes of the land of Israel.

Kenneth Gentry is especially helpful in his book, “Before Jerusalem Fell” (1998, pp. 128-131), in explaining that “land” and “earth” are often used interchangeably in Scripture, with a meaning that is localized rather than global.A quick glance at a couple of New Testament Scriptures begins to demonstrate this. For example, relating the circumstances surrounding Christ’s death on the cross, Matthew 27:45 in the ESV states, “Now from the sixth hour there was darkness over all theland until the ninth hour.” A footnote says that “earth” could have been used instead of land in this text, but most readers will conclude that this darkness was localized that day and not global.

Looking also at Luke 21:20-24, the context likewise shows that these events belong to Judea and Jerusalem, and even Futurists generally agree that this passage speaks of the siege and destruction of Jerusalem from 67-70 AD. Yet verse 23 says, “…For there will be great distress upon the earth and wrath against this people.” The phrase “this people” here no doubt refers to the unrepentant Jews, and “the earth” here is the land of Judea.
thanks for this sarah.
there's so much really important stuff in the history.

that super crucial time....the intertestamental period; to Christ's appearance....the conflict within Israel... through to 70AD, and beyond.

it's really odd how it all got glossed over - the history.
dispensationalism arrives on the scene....eyup.

then we see strange ideas like "replacement theology"; two peoples; supposedly unfulfilled promises.

a mystery age unforeseen - Old Testament Wineskins mercifully preserved...HMMMMMM







this seems so clear:



Luke 21
21 "Then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains, and those who are in the midst of the city must leave, and those who are in the country must not enter the city; 22 because these are days of vengeance, so that all things which are written will be fulfilled. 23 "Woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days; for there will be great distress upon the land and wrath to this people;



there are basically 2 options:

1) Jesus was describing a future scenario for/about people in the State of Israel today (who don't believe in Him). He is describing bad things that will happen to them at the hands of The Antichrist....who for some reason is opposed to Jews and not Christians?

(1a: that is resolved by removing Christians from the earth in a rapture, then it is about Jews again - just as the the text says, God having turned His attention back to "Israel"..)

OR

2) Jesus was telling His disciples what was going to happen in their lifetimes.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Sorry EG,

But many time the Bible says a kingdom was of the whole earth yet that kingdom did not cover the entire globe,only the entire the entire that was known to them.


Sorry sis, this is a copout.

it is one thing to say a kingdom or nation, and we interpret this to be the earth or those in the area around jerusalem.

I could even see the term every nation applied in this way.

but when God uses the terms "every tribe" Every nation" and "every language (tongue)" how many more ways do we need God to show us, he means the whole earth?


There is a reason he repeated who he meant three times in different terms. He did not want us to get it wrong.

every means every.



Jeremiah 51

“How jBabylon5 is taken,kthe praise of the whole earth lseized!How Babylon has becomea horror among the nations!

41 “How [ap]Sheshak has been captured,
And the praise of the whole earth been seized!
How Babylon has become an object of horror among the nations!
42 “The [aq]sea has come up over Babylon;
She has been engulfed with its tumultuous waves.

Jeremiah 50

The noise of battle is in the land,
the noise of great destruction!
23​
How broken and shattered
is the hammer of the whole earth!

How desolate is Babylon
among the nations!


Jeremiah 25

17 So I took the cup from the Lord’s hand and made all the nations to whom he sent me drink it:
18 Jerusalem and the towns of Judah, its kings and officials, to make them a ruin and an object of horror and scorn, a curse[c]—as they are today;19 Pharaoh king of Egypt, his attendants, his officials and all his people,20 and all the foreign people there; all the kings of Uz; all the kings of the Philistines (those of Ashkelon, Gaza, Ekron, and the people left at Ashdod);21 Edom, Moab and Ammon;22 all the kings of Tyre and Sidon; the kings of the coastlands across the sea;23 Dedan, Tema, Buz and all who are in distant places[d];24 all the kings of Arabia and all the kings of the foreign people who live in the wilderness;25 all the kings of Zimri, Elam and Media;26 and all the kings of the north, near and far, one after the other—all the kingdoms on the face of the earth. And after all of them, the king of Sheshak[e] will drink it too.


Scripture defines scripture. John uses those same types words,yet Jeremiah would NOT gone to North America,South America,or the farthest parts of Asia,yet he clearly says ALL the Kingdoms of the earth.
there is a difference between saying (whole earth) of which I would love to see what that is translated from) and saying every nation, tribe and language.

god did not say whole earth (as you showed above) he said EVERY NATION, EVERY TRIBE AND EVERY LANGUAGE
 

ChosenbyHim

Senior Member
Sep 19, 2011
3,343
114
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[*]Preterist view: A 3.5 year period that occurred in history, beginning with Nero’s declaration of war against Israel in February 67 AD until Jerusalem’s destruction in August 70 AD (Matthew 24:21; cf. Daniel 12:1, Jeremiah 30:7). This is our view, and more details can be seen in Part 3 of our series on the Olivet Discourse.
[/LIST]
—————————————————————————————————————————————————————
It may be helpful to further clarify our reasons for believing that the predicted judgments alluded to here in this chapter were to be poured out primarily on the land of Israel. As noted above, one of the reasons Kenneth Gentry gave for seeing the 144,000 as believers of Jewish extraction was that they were shown to be “in the land,” a reference to verse 3 (some translations say “earth”).In our study of Revelation so far, we have suggested that many of the references to “the earth” in the book of Revelation are not meant to be taken as worldwide in scope, but as dealing instead with the land of Israel/Palestine. In a 3-part study on this subjectbeginning with this post, I have outlined nearly 20 instances where this appears to be the case.


Sarah, What about the 2 witnesses?

What about the 7 seals, vials, and trumpets of Judgment?

Where is the historical record for each of those 7 distint judgments?

The time of Jacob's trouble is in the future. It has to be.

Also in Nero's time, they did not have implantable microchips.
 
Dec 26, 2012
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[/COLOR]Sorry sis, this is a copout.

it is one thing to say a kingdom or nation, and we interpret this to be the earth or those in the area around jerusalem.

I could even see the term every nation applied in this way.

but when God uses the terms "every tribe" Every nation" and "every language (tongue)" how many more ways do we need God to show us, he means the whole earth?


There is a reason he repeated who he meant three times in different terms. He did not want us to get it wrong.

every means every.





there is a difference between saying (whole earth) of which I would love to see what that is translated from) and saying every nation, tribe and language.

god did not say whole earth (as you showed above) he said EVERY NATION, EVERY TRIBE AND EVERY LANGUAGE


UMMM EG,

doesn't ALL mean ALL when Jeremiah says all the kingdoms on THE FACE OF THE EARTH?

and all the kings of the north, near and far, one after the other—all the kingdoms on the face of the earth.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
"A hunter is someone with a gun and he forces you. Hitler was a hunter. That will be offensive to some people. :rolleyes: Well, dear heart, be offended: I didn't write it. Jeremiah wrote it. It was the truth ..." --John Hagee
ya well...how many times have you heard the Holocaust was Ezekiel's Valley of Dry Bones?

can't have it be the events of Acts 2 (Pentecost; the Promise) - because that would legitimize Jesus.

"since Jesus refused by word and deed to claim to be the Messiah how can the Jews be blamed for rejecting what was never offered?" - John Hagee, In Defense of Israel

like...blamed?
what does "blame" have to do with anything?

mind you, the foundation of that twisted thinking is:

''The Jewish nation is never to enter the Church" - J.N. DARBY (Dispensationalist)

ugh.
 

ChosenbyHim

Senior Member
Sep 19, 2011
3,343
114
63
Cont



  • Preterist view: A 3.5 year period that occurred in history, beginning with Nero’s declaration of war against Israel in February 67 AD until Jerusalem’s destruction in August 70 AD (Matthew 24:21; cf. Daniel 12:1, Jeremiah 30:7). This is our view, and more details can be seen in Part 3 of our series on the Olivet Discourse.
—————————————————————————————————————————————————————
It may be helpful to further clarify our reasons for believing that the predicted judgments alluded to here in this chapter were to be poured out primarily on the land of Israel. As noted above, one of the reasons Kenneth Gentry gave for seeing the 144,000 as believers of Jewish extraction was that they were shown to be “in the land,” a reference to verse 3 (some translations say “earth”).In our study of Revelation so far, we have suggested that many of the references to “the earth” in the book of Revelation are not meant to be taken as worldwide in scope, but as dealing instead with the land of Israel/Palestine. In a 3-part study on this subjectbeginning with this post, I have outlined nearly 20 instances where this appears to be the case.


Sarah. What about the two witnesses?


What about the 7 seals, vials, and trumpets of Judgment?


Where is the historical record for each of those 7 judgements?


The time of Jacob's trouble is in the future. It has to be.


Also, in Nero's time, they did not have implantable microchips.
 
Dec 26, 2012
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thanks for this sarah.
there's so much really important stuff in the history.

that super crucial time....the intertestamental period; to Christ's appearance....the conflict within Israel... through to 70AD, and beyond.

it's really odd how it all got glossed over - the history.
dispensationalism arrives on the scene....eyup.

then we see strange ideas like "replacement theology"; two peoples; supposedly unfulfilled promises.

a mystery age unforeseen - Old Testament Wineskins mercifully preserved...HMMMMMM







this seems so clear:



Luke 21
21 "Then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains, and those who are in the midst of the city must leave, and those who are in the country must not enter the city; 22 because these are days of vengeance, so that all things which are written will be fulfilled. 23 "Woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days; for there will be great distress upon the land and wrath to this people;



there are basically 2 options:

1) Jesus was describing a future scenario for/about people in the State of Israel today (who don't believe in Him). He is describing bad things that will happen to them at the hands of The Antichrist....who for some reason is opposed to Jews and not Christians?

(1a: that is resolved by removing Christians from the earth in a rapture, then it is about Jews again - just as the the text says, God having turned His attention back to "Israel"..)

OR

2) Jesus was telling His disciples what was going to happen in their lifetimes.
Nah history has nothing to do with Revelation at all,never mind that most of the symbols in Revelation are also used in the OT to define what those same symbols mean in Revelation. Gotta throw all those out and redefine what those symbols mean. :rolleyes:

There is more in response to Green on the other chapters. More later.
 

ChosenbyHim

Senior Member
Sep 19, 2011
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Sarah. What about the two witnesses?


What about the 7 seals, vials, and trumpetsof Judgment?


Where is the historical record for each of those 7 judgements?


The time of Jacob's trouble is in the future. It has to be.


Also, in Nero's time, they did not have implantable microchips.
 
Dec 26, 2012
5,853
137
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Sarah. What about the two witnesses?


What about the 7 seals, vials, and trumpetsof Judgment?


Where is the historical record for each of those 7 judgements?


The time of Jacob's trouble is in the future. It has to be.


Also, in Nero's time, they did not have implantable microchips.
Patience Chosen will get there. Going out for coffee this morning.

Why does the time of Jacobs trouble HAVE to be future?

UMMM Did you read the posts about the libellus? Or do we ignore that?
 
Dec 26, 2012
5,853
137
0
Sarah. What about the two witnesses?


What about the 7 seals, vials, and trumpetsof Judgment?


Where is the historical record for each of those 7 judgements?


The time of Jacob's trouble is in the future. It has to be.


Also, in Nero's time, they did not have implantable microchips.
If you're in a bit more of a hurry,click the link and look on the left hand side. He broke it down chapter by chapter.