Do NOT Address NOR Speak TO the Holy Spirit

Enow · Feb 18, 2013

No. By His grace & by His help, I am informing and warning believers that scripture & the indwelling Holy Spirit are pointing us to the Son in continuing in that reconciled relationship with God through Jesus Christ to be found abiding in Him.

He is called the Bridegroom for that reason. Up close and personal with God through the Son.

By ignoring that, one really is ignoring the Holy Spirit within us and not just the scripture too.

kenisyes · Feb 18, 2013

Enow said:

This is from the OP, and has not been addressed.

This cannot be the reason. God the Father is a Spirit also, and we are supposed to call on Him.

Enow · Feb 18, 2013

kenisyes said:

You are not rightly applying the scripture for what Jesus was saying that for.

The Samaritan woman spoke of how their people would go to the mountains to worship God while the Jews say that they ought to go to Jerusalem to worship God: hence when Jesus replied, He was testifying of the time when God is not confined by a specific place to worship Him. That means believers in Jesus Christ do not need to go to a place to be "near" God or come to God because He is with them always so that they can worship Him anywhere as they will be doing so IN spirit and IN truth. How is that possible? His invitation makes that possible as it is by honouring the Son in worship is how one is honouring the Father.

John 4:[SUP]20 [/SUP]Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship. [SUP]21 [/SUP]Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father. [SUP]22 [/SUP]Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews. [SUP]23 [/SUP]But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. [SUP]24 [/SUP]God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

Jesus was speaking of the Father in verse 23 and not of the Holy Spirit. Therefore when Jesus said God is a Spirit, and do note the use of the small word "a", Jesus was clarifying that He would not be telling anyone that they ought to go to Jerusalem nor to any specific place to worship God in deference to what the woman had said. That is what He was referring towards when testifying that God is a Spirit. Otherwise, by taking that phrase out of context as a few do like by saying that Jesus is not God then, without lining it up with the rest of scripture, truth would be hard to discern in the actual message that Jesus wants us to have.

So that reference is still not saying we can address nor speak to the Holy Spirit when Jesus is the only way to the Father.

kenisyes · Feb 18, 2013

Enow said:

I am not saying it does. I am saying that you have given the wrong reason that there are no Scriptures encouraging or allowing it.

Graybeard · Feb 18, 2013

What....so now talking to The Holy Spirit is wrong??...

Graybeard · Feb 18, 2013

Sometimes I talk to God, sometimes I talk to Jesus and sometimes I talk to The Holy Spirit. If I have a prayer it is to God through Jesus I pray, other times I pray just to Jesus...never do I prayer to God through The Holy Spirit. Many time I request The Holy Spirit to assist me and guide me...which He does.

Enow · Feb 18, 2013

kenisyes said:

You say that and yet ...

Either it doesn't say it or it does. Giving partiality like that is liken to Satan tempting everyone to doubt what He has said.

God will not be pleased by any believer in approaching Him by an other way other than by way of the Son thereby by honouring the Son, you are honouring the Father which is what the indwelling Holy Spirit of the Triune God is leading us to do.

Enow · Feb 18, 2013

Graybeard said:

Alot of believers will testify of that just as alot of Catholics will testify to answered prayers for praying to Mary or one of the departed saints or the Holy Spirit also, but His word is clear: there is only one way to relate to God the Father and as teh chaste bride of Christ, they are to relate to God throough the Son, the Bridegroom.

John 14:[SUP]6 [/SUP]Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Jesus left no wiggle room for coming to the Father by way of the Holy Spirit. Jesus gave no invitation to the Holy Spirit, and yet believers ignore His words in John 14:6 as if He did not really mean that when He did.

oOfallen_angelOo · Feb 18, 2013

Enow said:

Be careful of forgetting that Jesus was the " Christ." The above verses don't mention anything about coming to the " Son," but rather coming to Jesus because he was the Christ -

Christ is referred to as the Messiah, the Savior - therefore, you must seek the Christ, the Savior and only is the Christ the mediator to the Father.

The title " Son" is only used of Jesus when he is giving an example as a son of God for the other children of God to follow - but even Jesus's most outstanding title is Christ - and why Christians are called Christians, because we are followrs of Christ -

Not Sonstians or anything like that lol.

As far as the Holy Spirit - Jesus promises the Holy Spirit in the book of John, the One that will remind and counsel all of God's true children of the same things Jesus counseled them on - hence Jesus was called the Counselor, and 2nd Coming Christ is also referred to as the Counselor - why?

Because 2nd Coming Christ would be the re - incarnation of Jesus's will ( God's will really,) when the time has come.

The Spirit is 2nd Coming Christ, whom is that of Jesus, and is therefore the " gate " for the sheep.

Hopefully you will hear his voice.

God Bless

Enow · Feb 18, 2013

oOfallen_angelOo said:

That significance and the importance of Christ being the Son is mentioned here.

1 John 2:[SUP]22 [/SUP]Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. [SUP]23 [/SUP]Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.

These verses actually testify that Christ means God because by denying the Son as being the Christ, they are denying the Father as well in that same voice. So the only way they can deny both the Father & the Son in denying Jesus as the Christ has to meanthat they are denying the deity of the Son.

Jesus described His role being at that throne of grace in regards to prayer.

Matthew 18:[SUP]19 [/SUP]Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven. [SUP]20 [/SUP]For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

That's His promise that He will do it, the Son of God.

In the reference of 1 John 2:22-23, that is not the case at all.

That is understood but the Son is the Christ. There are false teachings going around acting as of the risen Saviour is on vacation and He gave the Holy Spirit for us to go to and relate to in coming to God and that is not true. It is apostasy.

Sounds like a new take on that false teaching about the role of the Holy Spirit as replacing the role of the Son for believers to relate to God by.

John the Baptist testified that Jesus Christ is the Bridegroom. The Holy Spirit does not have that title.

John 3:[SUP]28 [/SUP]Ye yourselves bear me witness, that I said, I am not the Christ, but that I am sent before him. [SUP]29 [/SUP]He that hath the bride is the bridegroom: but the friend of the bridegroom, which standeth and heareth him, rejoiceth greatly because of the bridegroom's voice: this my joy therefore is fulfilled. [SUP]30 [/SUP]He must increase, but I must decrease.

That is how we are to witness of the Son and guess what? That is how the Holy Spirit will witness of the Son. So those led by the Spirit of God will be in sync in bearing the same witness of the Son in eeking the glory of the Son.

For a believer to point to himself to get a following or to point to the Spirit to get believers that have already the Holy Spirit in them .. to seek after the Spirit to receive again after a sign and thereby addressing and calling on the Spirit to come and fall on them is something the real indwelling Holy Spirit would never lead a believer to do.

I am not saying that those believers that do such thing do not have the Holy Spirit in them, but it is certain by the scriptures trhat they are not listening to the Good Shepherd in following the Son of God by faith in living that reconciled relationship with God through Jesus Christ... the Bridegroom.

oOfallen_angelOo · Feb 18, 2013

That significance and the importance of Christ being the Son is mentioned here.

1 John 2:[SUP]22 [/SUP]Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. [SUP]23 [/SUP]Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.

These verses actually testify that Christ means God because by denying the Son as being the Christ, they are denying the Father as well in that same voice. So the only way they can deny both the Father & the Son in denying Jesus as the Christ has to meanthat they are denying the deity of the Son.

Your mistaken here; I never denied Jesus as the Son, nor did I deny Jesus as the Christ. Jesus was BOTH the Son and the Christ - but both have their DIFFERENT purposes.

The " Son" was a title given to Jesus because being born on Earth, he became like the children of God who are also the sons and daughters of God. This is why Jesus constantly says to follow his example, and the apostles after Jesus's death said this as well, because he was a son of God and therefore the divine example for the rest of us who want to be the children of God as he gave the example to be.

Christ references Jesus as the Savior - the Messiah who has brought a means to salvation ( The New Covenant,) for God's children in these times.

Make sense?

It's like how a woman can be both a Wife and a Sister;

A Wife has different duties than a sister does - yet both these are still the same woman fulfilling different regulations according to the circumstance.

Salvation comes through Christ whom was Jesus whom was also the Son, whom set the example as Jesus Christ the Son, as a child of God, for the children of God to follow and therefore be lead to salvation because they were following the Christ -

Hence again, why we are called Christians.

Jesus described His role being at that throne of grace in regards to prayer.

Matthew 18:[SUP]19 [/SUP]Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven. [SUP]20 [/SUP]For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

That's His promise that He will do it, the Son of God.

The Son of God is also Jesus CHRIST. You keep leaving out that Jesus had BOTH these titles. He was not just the Son, but he was also the Christ. He was not just the Christ, but also the Son. In regards to Jesus, both lead back to Jesus.

Just like the example of the woman; if I'm her niece, she is my auntie. To her husband she is his wife. If I hear her husband call his wife - I will know he's addressing my auntie. BOTH are her titles, but BOTH also represent her in their own way.

It's basic logic really.

That is understood but the Son is the Christ. There are false teachings going around acting as of the risen Saviour is on vacation and He gave the Holy Spirit for us to go to and relate to in coming to God and that is not true. It is apostasy.

Perhaps it's because the Bible says this:

John 14: 26

" But the Couselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and remind you of everything I have said to you."

Those are all Jesus's own words before he was going to be crucified. So was he lying in addressing the Counselor to be sent in his name as the Holy Spirit? No, because the Holy Spirit is the title given to 2nd Coming Christ - because the Holy Spirit is the spirit of God which bringsforth God's divine truths. These truths are what will save God's people in the last age because there is a lot of falsehood in the world. God's true people will recognize the truth of God amongst the falsehood for it is truly divine.

Again,

John 6: 15

" And I will ask the Father, and he will give you ANOTHER Cousenlor to be with you foever - The Spirit of truth..."

The only Spirit of Truth - is the Holy Spirit which is God's Spirit.

Just as the " Son" was the title of Jesus Christ, the " Holy Spirit," is the title of 2nd Coming Christ.

The Bible and Jesus said these things - not me as you have clearly read.

And it's a good thing to be aware of this reality correct? For it will make identifying the coming Christ as true amongst all the false ones who have appeared already.

Do not make the mistake of being stuck in the past; this was the stumbling block for a lot of Jews in Jesus Christ's time because they could not accept that Jesus Christ was indeed the Savior; they were expecting Elijah who came as John the Baptist, as well as holding onto the OT covenant under the command given by Jahova ( which was the name given to God in those times.)

Because they were " stuck," they ended up killing the very savior they were waiting for. The Bible does not stop after Jesus's time - if it did, Revelations would have never been written because it is a prophetical book about our CURRENT times. The Spirit of truth mentioned in Revelations is the Counselor Jesus promised in John.

You think we're all ready to go Heaven without another Christ to come? No one even knows what the bible really intells. This is why Christ is so very necessary in our times - especially with all the deception, misleading, and falsehood in the churches.

Sounds like a new take on that false teaching about the role of the Holy Spirit as replacing the role of the Son for believers to relate to God by.

John the Baptist testified that Jesus Christ is the Bridegroom. The Holy Spirit does not have that title.

John 3:[SUP]28 [/SUP]Ye yourselves bear me witness, that I said, I am not the Christ, but that I am sent before him. [SUP]29 [/SUP]He that hath the bride is the bridegroom: but the friend of the bridegroom, which standeth and heareth him, rejoiceth greatly because of the bridegroom's voice: this my joy therefore is fulfilled. [SUP]30 [/SUP]He must increase, but I must decrease.

You say the Spirit doesn't have the title of Bridegroom?

Revelations 22:17

" The SPIRIT and the Bride say " Come!""

The Spirit has a bride, so logically deducing, he is the bridegroom.

It is a bit of a new take I guess, but it's because the reality is that the Son had purpose 2,000 years ago, and the Bible moves along into the time of the Holy Spirit so God's children can be saved in our time. I believe 100% Jesus was the Son of God and the Christ, but if Jesus says another was coming in his name to bring his teachings and his will - I'm going to listen to Jesus Christ and look out for this figure.

I am not saying that those believers that do such thing do not have the Holy Spirit in them, but it is certain by the scriptures trhat they are not listening to the Good Shepherd in following the Son of God by faith in living that reconciled relationship with God through Jesus Christ... the Bridegroom.

Ironic you say this about following the " Good Shepard," the same Good Shepard whom said the Holy Spirit is to come and lead those who believe into all truths.

The Spirit to come in his name, the one who has a bride and is also a bridegroom, whom you deny.

God Bless.

oOfallen_angelOo · Feb 18, 2013

Plus I wanted to clearify that in Jesus's times, some denied him to be the Son of God because they saw him as a blasphemer and a heretic; others didn't believe he was the Christ but thought him to be a holy person according to his deeds.

That's why the verse you wrote up top says you cannot deny Jesus as neither the Son or the Christ - or else you are in error.

He was both.

oOfallen_angelOo · Feb 18, 2013

Oh oh oh - and the risen Savior is not on vacation;

Jesus Christ was God correct?

If Jesus Christ said another Christ was to come in his name after he departed, and Christ was God...then that means 2nd Coming Christ will be God, and Jesus didn't take a vacation - ( or else we'd all die,) he just came back as 2nd Coming Christ with the title " Holy Spirit."

Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are NOT THREE SEPERATE ENTITIES.

They are all one in the same, fulfilling the purpose of God's titles as they relate to the salvation of his children on earth!

Isn't God amazing?

And is there nothing God can't do? He can totally have 3 titles, totally come as Jesus Christ and the Spirit Christ - God can do whatever he pleases because he is God. Above all he wants to save his children, and if he's got to do it three times to get the point across and allow us salvation - he will do it.

He is already doing it...

Enow · Feb 18, 2013

oOfallen_angelOo said:

You say that but then you said this.

By His grace & by His help, I believe I was testifying that the title of the Christ is only given to the Son.

When references are made of the Spirit of Christ, it is in that same reference as the Spirit of our Father.

Matthew 10:[SUP]20 [/SUP]For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.

So no one can say that the Spirit is the Christ when Jesus, the Son of God is the Christ that was sent into the world.
That is understood but the Son is the Christ. There are false teachings going around acting as of the risen Saviour is on vacation and He gave the Holy Spirit for us to go to and relate to in coming to God and that is not true. It is apostasy.

Errant Bible version, brother. The term Comforter was used in those places of the Counselor in the King James Bible.

John 14:[SUP]26 [/SUP]But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

BTW.. incorrect reference, brother, for this next verse.

John 14:[SUP]16 [/SUP]And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

Brother, that would be an ill use of that term since the actual second coming of Christ is the Son of God returning at the end of the great tribulation to earth to set up His milleniel reign on earth after the defeat of Satan and his armies.

To use that term as inferring the promise of the Holy Spirit can very well lead to saying that the Spirit is the Christ and thus denying that the Son, Jesus, is the Christ.

Depends on which Bible you read. I dare say that the truth in His messages has been kept in the King James Bible and no other modern Bible has been doing so.

Which is why Jesus is the Christ, and not the Spirit being the Christ. Yes, they are One, but the title belongs to the Son.

Sounds like a new take on that false teaching about the role of the Holy Spirit as replacing the role of the Son for believers to relate to God by.

John the Baptist testified that Jesus Christ is the Bridegroom. The Holy Spirit does not have that title.

John 3:[SUP]28 [/SUP]Ye yourselves bear me witness, that I said, I am not the Christ, but that I am sent before him. [SUP]29 [/SUP]He that hath the bride is the bridegroom: but the friend of the bridegroom, which standeth and heareth him, rejoiceth greatly because of the bridegroom's voice: this my joy therefore is fulfilled. [SUP]30 [/SUP]He must increase, but I must decrease.

You say the Spirit doesn't have the title of Bridegroom?

Revelations 22:17

" The SPIRIT and the Bride say " Come!""

The Spirit has a bride, so logically deducing, he is the bridegroom. [/QUOTE]

You do see that it says "bride" and not bridegroom?

We are the bride of Christ that is saying come as we are led by the Spirit to say come. That does not make us the Bridegroom nor does that make the Spirit the Bridegroom.

Brother, with all of your words, it seems you keep making excuses for not coming to the Son in relating to Him up close and personal as the only Bridegroom that He is.

1 Chronicles 16:11Seek the Lord and his strength, seek his face continually.

2 Chronicles 7:14If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Those that do not seek His face continually will run the risk of being left behind for taking their eyes off of the Son.

Hosea 5:15I will go and return to my place, till they acknowledge their offence, and seek my face: in their affliction they will seek me early.

I hope those left behind will not respond in the same manner as Israel has done.

Hosea 7:10And the pride of Israel testifieth to his face: and they do not return to the Lord their God, nor seek him for all this.

Jesus is our first love. There is no departing from that to any other "Bridegroom". Doing so is denying Him.

If you really believe I was denying Him, you should not be blessing me.

2 John 1:[SUP]8 [/SUP]Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward. [SUP]9 [/SUP]Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. [SUP]10 [/SUP]If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: [SUP]11 [/SUP]For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.

Enow · Feb 18, 2013

oOfallen_angelOo said:

John's testimony is to the deity of Christ as that title refers to the prophesied deity that was to come into the world. It follows this prophesy as found unvarnised in the KJV.

Isaiah 48:[SUP]16 [/SUP]Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord God, and his Spirit, hath sent me. [SUP]17 [/SUP]Thus saith the Lord, thy Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; I am the Lord thy God which teacheth thee to profit, which leadeth thee by the way that thou shouldest go.

So when did the Lord God and his Spirit testified that they had sent the Son of God? At His water baptism to fulfill the prophesy.

Matthew 3:[SUP]15 [/SUP]And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him. [SUP]16 [/SUP]And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: [SUP]17 [/SUP]And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

How can God bear witness of Himself? When God is the Triune God, that's how.

John 8:[SUP]17 [/SUP]It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true.

We are called to be witnesses of the Son as led by the Spirit to do. That means we will not be speaking of the Holy Spirit as if He is the One we are to relate to God the Father by and thus doling out invitations to the Spirit when Jesus gave no such invitations except to Himself as the Son in coming to God the Father.

John 15:[SUP]26 [/SUP]But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me: [SUP]27 [/SUP]And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning.

Matthew 11:[SUP]25 [/SUP]At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes. [SUP]26 [/SUP]Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight. [SUP]27 [/SUP]All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him. [SUP]28 [/SUP]Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. [SUP]29 [/SUP]Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. [SUP]30 [/SUP]For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

1 Corinthians 2:[SUP]2 [/SUP]For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.

Seems to me nowadays, most believers thinks relating to the Holy Spirit is the same thing as relating to the Son and yet all the while scripture has testified that although they are One, the Spirit is not the Son and the Spirit is not the Father, because He is a seperate Person of the Triune God in order for Him to serve as a Divine Witness so that along with the Father, their testimony of Jesus Christ as the Son of God is righteous in according to His words and thus a true witness from the Triune God.

oOfallen_angelOo · Feb 18, 2013

Lol Jesus Christ promised the Holy Spirit, one who is going to come in his name and bring us into, as well as remind us of the truths of God.

That is undeniably Jesus's spoken word;

You are aware that Comforter in the Bible references the revelation of God's word right? The true comfort that is not of this world:

John 14:27

" Peace I leave with you; my peace I give you. I do not give to you as the world gives. Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid."

Comfort - is a peaceful state of mind. God's peace comes through his word; this is why Comforter and Counselor are used interchageably here. If this was errant, then your bible would be errant as well, because then we will be conflicte don what means what.

The Holy Spirit is to bring God's truth to the world; he is also the bridegroom - that is pretty obvious.

But alas, believe as you wish, for my words are no good here apparently.

We won't know until it's too late anyway.

I've never heard not telling someone God Bless - it's more of a signiture but I'll confirm what you wrote before I saying anything on it.

Enow · Feb 18, 2013

oOfallen_angelOo said:

Then if believers really believe that, then stop using the Holy Spirit as if He has taken the place of the Bridegroom in relating to God the Father by.

See post #95 in this thread as why they are seperate in order for the Triune God as God to bear witness of the Son as God.

Enow · Feb 18, 2013

oOfallen_angelOo said:

The point is to go before that throne of grace now and ask the Good Shepherd for help in understanding His words in the knowledge of Him so that their love towards the Son may abound more and more as the bride should towards the Bridegroom.

You can know the truth now and be ready and found abiding in Him before the Bridegroom comes for the bride of Christ to receive them where the Son is now.. with the Father.

John 14:1Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. [SUP]2 [/SUP]In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. [SUP]3 [/SUP]And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

Elin · Feb 18, 2013

Enow said:

Are you confused about the text?

No sheep followed a stranger's voice, they ran away from the stranger

"The sheep listen to his voice. He calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. . .his sheep follow him because they know his voice. . .But they will never follow a stranger; in fact they will run away from him because they do not recognize a stranger's voice. . .All who ever came before me were thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not listen to them. " (Jn 10:3-8)

I don't think so. . .

The sheep do not listen to the thieves and robbers (v.8), they do not go astray.

The Pharisees and chief priests were only hirelings who didn't care for the sheep.
Their true shepherd was Jesus who gave his life for his sheep.
The Good Shepherd knows his sheep, and they know him. (v.14)
They do not listen to strangers.

Elin · Feb 18, 2013

Enow said:

Jn 14:16, 26, 16:26, 16:7.

Do NOT Address NOR Speak TO the Holy Spirit

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