Do we decide to be saved?

[mailmandan]

You had me up until your comment about Gods faith and James 2.

Faith is not Gods faith, it is our faith in him (His work, His promises, His everything).

James 2 just says If I claim to have faith in him, yet never do what he says, all I have done is prove I had no faith in him to begin with. ie, my faith was lifeless or dead (I may have believed, but I had no faith whatsoever)

Amen! 1 Peter 1:9 - receiving the end of your faith—the salvation of your souls. As for James 2:14, we read of one who says/claims he has faith but has no works (to validate his claim). That is not genuine faith, but a bare profession of faith. So when James asks, "Can that faith save him?" he is saying nothing against genuine faith, but only against an empty profession of faith/dead faith.

In James 2:19, we see that the demons believe "mental assent" that "there is one God" but they do not believe/entrust their spiritual well being to Christ; have faith/reliance upon Christ for salvation.

In other words, they do not believe on the Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 16:31) and are not saved. Their trust and reliance is in Satan, as demonstrated by their rebellion in heaven and continuous evil works.

 

[Blik]

[/LEFT]
How did God "turn them"? How did God "chastise them"? All scripture is God breathed and is profitable for doctrine, reproof and correction and training in righteousness . . . Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God.

2 Kings 17:13 The LORD warned Israel and Judah through all his prophets and seers: "Turn from your evil ways. Observe my commands and decrees . . . 14) But they would not listen and were as stiff-necked as their ancestors, who did not trust in the LORD their God. 15) They rejected his decrees and statutes . . .
Ezekiel 33:11 Say to them, "As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign LORD, I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn from their ways and live. Turn! Turn from your evil ways . . .
Zechariah 1:3,4 Therefore tell the people: This is what the LORD Almighty says: "Return to me," declares the LORD Almighty, "and I will return to you," says the LORD Almighty. Do not be like your ancestors, to whom the earlier prophets proclaimed: This is what the LORD Almighty says: "Turn from your evil ways and your evil practices." But they would not listen or pay attention to me, declares the LORD.

God tells man to "turn from their evil ways" but YET HE does it? We hear the word of God and we either turn and repent or remain stiff-necked, not trusting God. That is our choice.

Repost from another thread:
Here's the thing: John 3 talks about being born again. Within the context (and I believe the way to be born again) God lays it all out - He so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son. Whosoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. . . . whoever believes in him is not condemned but whoever does not believe stands condemned because they have not believed in the name of God's only begotten Son . . .

(v19) THIS IS THE VERDICT: (of what was previously stated concerning those that are condemned) - they prefer to stay in the dark with their deeds hid. BUT those who live by the truth (those who believe in the name of Jesus Christ) come to the light (by believing in Jesus Christ) so that it may be seen plainly that what they have done (believe in the name of Jesus Christ) has been done in the sight of God. . . .

So wouldn't the choice be - to believe unto eternal life or to not believe and stand condemned?

No one can choose to believe in the name of God's only begotten Son?

When we understand that God created us, God is working in our universe always for our benefit, God is everything that is love, beauty, and eternity we know that living through God and guided only by Him is the only way we can live with peace and contentment. It is our pleasure, our life and our joy. And it is often called works.

But we are not Holy to save ourselves through our life choices. That is for our Holy Father to do. It is through Christ's blood we are saved but it is the Father who saves us.

 

[SovereignGrace]

I'll never understand the way a Calvinist mind thinks.

For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.[SUP] [/SUP]However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him.[Romans 8:5-9]

Paul speaks of both classes of ppl in the world...

--the lost and saved
--the unregenerate and the regenerate

Those who are according to the flesh are the lost. Those who are in this state have their minds set upon the flesh. They are hostile towards, are an enmity towards Him. They hate Him. They can not please God in this state of hostility and enmity towards Him.

Those who are according to the Spirit are the saved. Those who are in this state have their minds set upon the Spirit. They can please God in this state, seeing the Spirit is indwelling them.

Now, the lost are dead(nekros literally means a dead corpse) in transgressions and sins.[Ephesians 2:1] They are dead spiritually, but alive physically. However, the natural man does not want the things of the Spirit, as Paul wrote But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised.[1 Cor. 2:14] The natural man means those devoid of God's Spirit. He wants nothing to do with God in this deadened spiritual state. That's why God must first unilaterally move upon them and quicken them to Spiritual life, and then, and only then, can they exercise faith and repentance and be saved.

God must first do the work of divine quickening, where He quickens(makes them alive spiritually) them, and in this divine quickening, the gifts of faith and repentance are also given to them, they exercise these gifts and are saved.

 

[LW97]

I am neither Arminian nor Calvinist, just a born-again Christian. And well, Christ has been offering that gift for 2,000 years to EVERYONE (1st John 2:29. But nobody is saved unless he accepts the gift.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

I'll never understand the way a Calvinist mind thinks.

Those who are according to the flesh are the lost. Those who are in this state have their minds set upon the flesh. They are hostile towards, are an enmity towards Him. They hate Him. They can not please God in this state of hostility and enmity towards Him.

John Calvin had many Christians murdered because they disagreed with his theology. Is that what you mean by walking in the flesh?

 

[graceNpeace]

John Calvin had many Christians murdered because they disagreed with his theology. Is that what you mean by walking in the flesh?

This is a nice debating point - points scored!

But this does not later the fact that anyone and everyone who has EVER engaged in theology, if they were a believer also sinned as believers, and therefore did walk according to the flesh when sinning!

So the fact that Calvin engaged in acts that hopefully, in our current world would result in criminal conviction, does not alter the necessity, when one is talking theology anywhere, to debate the theology on its merits.
If the only point of the exercise is to dismiss Calvin on the basis that he was a sinner, then no ones theology is worth considering for precisely the same reason!
The fact that you personally have not had people killed for disagreeing with your theology is neither here nor there - your sins (and mine!) put us in exactly the same position that Calvin was - all we can say (literally) is: "But for the grace of God go I!"

 

[LW97]

This is a nice debating point - points scored!

But this does not later the fact that anyone and everyone who has EVER engaged in theology, if they were a believer also sinned as believers, and therefore did walk according to the flesh when sinning!

So the fact that Calvin engaged in acts that hopefully, in our current world would result in criminal conviction, does not alter the necessity, when one is talking theology anywhere, to debate the theology on its merits.
If the only point of the exercise is to dismiss Calvin on the basis that he was a sinner, then no ones theology is worth considering for precisely the same reason!
The fact that you personally have not had people killed for disagreeing with your theology is neither here nor there - your sins (and mine!) put us in exactly the same position that Calvin was - all we can say (literally) is: "But for the grace of God go I!"

Everytime we sin, we don't walk in Grace

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

I'll never understand the way a Calvinist mind thinks.

This is a nice debating point - points scored!

But this does not later the fact that anyone and everyone who has EVER engaged in theology, if they were a believer also sinned as believers, and therefore did walk according to the flesh when sinning!

So the fact that Calvin engaged in acts that hopefully, in our current world would result in criminal conviction, does not alter the necessity, when one is talking theology anywhere, to debate the theology on its merits.
If the only point of the exercise is to dismiss Calvin on the basis that he was a sinner, then no ones theology is worth considering for precisely the same reason!
The fact that you personally have not had people killed for disagreeing with your theology is neither here nor there - your sins (and mine!) put us in exactly the same position that Calvin was - all we can say (literally) is: "But for the grace of God go I!"

John Calvin's theology is reflected in his actions. That was the point. A habitual murderer needs the kind of theology that he conceived. It takes a special mind to reconcile its contradictions, which getting back to my original comment, I will avoid like the plague.

 

[graceNpeace]

John Calvin's theology is reflected in his actions. That was the point. A habitual murderer needs the kind of theology that he conceived. It takes a special mind to reconcile its contradictions, which getting back to my original comment, I will avoid like the plague.

That is pushing things!
I think that you need to review history and church history in Europe at the time of the Reformation.
The fact that one of the fruits of the Reformation was to separate church from State, correctly IMHO, does not mean that several centuries ago church and state were separate - they weren't!
Heresy and sedition were often the same thing!
There was no such thing as freedom of religion as espoused in modern liberal democracy...

And remember, the whole mess of the church running the state was a product of centuries of appalling abuses of the RCC...

There is plenty in the history of Christianity that is appalling and shameful.
Even Luther was not the most pleasant fellow by all accounts and also expressed agreement with decisions that are completely contrary to modern politics and church government even if he himself had no authority to actually act on them!

 

[birdie]

"Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:"

This discussion of belief surrounds the raising to life of Lazarus in John 11. Although the Lazarus story gives a physical picture of life from the dead, it is providing an easy to understand parable picture of how God gives us new life spiritually. To be born again spiritually, to have Christ's spirit given to us after having a dead spirit is an act of God. Just as Lazarus was a stinking dead physical corpse, completely unable to give new physical life to himself (how could a rotting corpse that stinks already give new life to itself?), so, in the same manner, a person who is unsaved spiritually is a dead spirit, unable to get out of that situation on their own strength. In Lazarus' case, it took Jesus' command to Lazarus: "Lazarus come forth", a completely external force operating on behalf of Lazarus to give him life. Having said this, God seems to give new life to persons as the gospel is preached, as his word goes out. If he intends for a person to hear that word, he gives them the ability to hear and believe unto salvation.

 

[seed_time_harvest]

I would offer a man or woman must hear the voice of their salvation before they repent. If they do not hear the voice who will they turn to? Themselves

Its In every human being to know that there Is a GOD so then there Is no excuse for not repenting and believing In GOD.

 

[Cee]

If God desire none to perish, why do people perish if He is the only variable in the salvation equation?

 

[preacher4truth]

John Calvin...A habitual murderer

You don't know what you're talking about historically or biblically.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

If God desire none to perish, why do people perish if He is the only variable in the salvation equation?

Good question!

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

You don't know what you're talking about historically or biblically.

As I've read, Calvin was responsible for the gruesome executions of 58 people. I can just imagine him saying, "I can't help myself".

I say, I say that's a joke son. I made a funny and you're not laughin'. I perceive that you have a total inability to appreciate Calvinist humor.

 

[preacher4truth]

As I've read, Calvin was responsible for the gruesome executions of 58 people.

Fetch some documentation for the above. Hint: J. T. Chick isn't a good source. Nor Steven Anderson. Nor is jesus-is-savior.com. Nor a blog from you or any other Romans 9:20 individual.

 

[John146]

If God desire none to perish, why do people perish if He is the only variable in the salvation equation?

Calvinists will change the wording to "God desires non of His elect to perish..."

 

[EarnestQ]

John Calvin had many Christians murdered because they disagreed with his theology.

I did not know that. Thank you.

 

[preacher4truth]

Calvinists will change the wording to "God desires non of His elect to perish..."

The context of 2 Peter 3:9 supports this and that's a fact. But you don't like context, unless it's from your tradition, in which twisting of context to support you is the norm.

You really don't believe the "pure" "perfect" "preserved" word of God like you think you do, in fact you reject its contextual meaning while claiming the bible interprets itself contextually.

 

[preacher4truth]

I did not know that. Thank you.

You still don't.