Do you believe everything the Bible says?

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Do you believe everything the Bible says?

  • Yes

    Votes: 31 93.9%

  • No

    Votes: 2 6.1%
  • Total voters
    33
J

John146

Senior Member
#81
Jan 13, 2016
17,089
3,681
113
#81
VARob said:
Although you're oblivious to it, you do exactly that. No translation is perfect. The perfect words of God were the autographs. They're long gone. What we have today are copies of copies of the originals, and then they need to be translated into different languages so people can read them. For most of us, that's English. The KJV is decent, but since the KJV was translated, literally thousands more manuscripts have been discovered, many much older than the Textus Receptus, from which the KJV was translated.

I have been a Christian for a long time, almost 50 years. Maybe I was living under a rock or something, but I had never heard of KJV-Onlyism until about ten years ago, from a guy on another Christian forum. I was simply stunned that anyone could believe that the KJV was the God-approved flawless English translation of the Bible. Even though it's been ten years, I still cannot grasp how anyone could believe such a thing. It boggles the mind.
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Very short…
1. The ”originals” contained translation from one language to another
2. Older does not mean better or more correct
3. God promised to preserve his pure words for all generations
4. Again, Antioch vs Egypt and the Vatican
5. Why criticize someone for believing they have God’s word?
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#82
Jan 13, 2016
17,089
3,681
113
#82
notonmywatch said:
I never said that the King James Version of the Bible was "false". Instead, i said that its underlying texts are not always perfectly translated into English because they are not.
I've been reading the KJV for many, many years myself, but it is not a perfect translation. If by "Egypt or Rome" you're referring to Codex Sinaiticus (even though Mt. Sinai is in Arabia, and NOT in Egypt) and Codex Vaticanus, then let me tell you plainly that I wouldn't wipe a dog's poopy butt with either of them. I personally believe, upon my own extensive research for many, many years, that they are deliberately corrupted texts.
Believe me, I'm beyond well aware of all of the omissions in the newer Bible per-versions. That said, the KJV still isn't perfectly translated from the Hebrew and Greek into English at all times. In fact, in some places, the translations are HORRIFIC.
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Do you believe a translation can be the inspired words of God for that language?
 
N

notonmywatch

Guest
#83
#83
John146 said:
Do you believe a translation can be the inspired words of God for that language?
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I believe that all scripture is given by inspiration of God. However, when said scriptures are translated from one language to another, there is a margin for human error. If you want someone to come alongside you and champion the KJV as the best English translation, then I'm that guy. However, if you're looking for someone to agree with you that the KJV was perfectly translated from the Hebrew and Greek into English, then I'm definitely NOT that guy. There are some terrible translations in the KJV, and they've led to all sorts of erroneous beliefs.
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#84
Jan 13, 2016
17,089
3,681
113
#84
notonmywatch said:
I believe that all scripture is given by inspiration of God. However, when said scriptures are translated from one language to another, there is a margin for human error. If you want someone to come alongside you and champion the KJV as the best English translation, then I'm that guy. However, if you're looking for someone to agree with you that the KJV was perfectly translated from the Hebrew and Greek into English, then I'm definitely NOT that guy. There are some terrible translations in the KJV, and they've led to all sorts of erroneous beliefs.
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In what language did Joseph speak to his brothers in Egypt?
 
V

VARob

Banned
#85
Dec 21, 2020
1,825
474
83
#85
John146 said:
Very short…
1. The ”originals” contained translation from one language to another
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No they didn't.

2. Older does not mean better or more correct
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This is possibly true. But the older manuscripts should be taken into account, and not discarded because they are older.

3. God promised to preserve his pure words for all generations
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What about people who don't speak English? What did people do in the ~1600 years before the KJV was translated?

4. Again, Antioch vs Egypt and the Vatican
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You're going to have to explain yourself.

5. Why criticize someone for believing they have God’s word?
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Don't take it personally. People can believe whatever they want. Some people believed Jim Jones was right.
 
N

notonmywatch

Guest
#86
#86
John146 said:
In what language did Joseph speak to his brothers in Egypt?
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Genesis 42

23And they knew not that Joseph understood them; for he spake unto them by an interpreter.

Your point?
 
P

Papermonkey

Active member
#87
Dec 2, 2022
724
257
43
#87
John146 said:
Do you believe a translation can be the inspired words of God for that language?
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That's translation factors you're referring to.

How can God's words change when we recall all those verses that tell us God's words do not change? And we are not to change them.
 
Dino246

Dino246

Senior Member
#89
Jun 30, 2015
25,337
13,716
113
#89
Papermonkey said:
There it is. I thought so. One naming themselves Nehemiah is a spelling Nazi from what I've experienced.I wanted to see if that personality was there in you too.
And it is.

My judgement even as a new arrival is appropriate.
You're sins are something you are proud to display. Mean, condescending, arrogant, pride filled, rude, and you clearly thrive on seeding controversy. All this make for the inability to rightly divide the words of God.
1John 3:8

Christians don't have to tolerate being spoken to in such ways.
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"Such ways"? Whatever. I don't insult people directly, but ideas are fair game for criticism. Being straightforward and direct is not a sin, nor is treating folly as it deserves to be treated.
 
Blade

Blade

Well-known member
#90
Nov 19, 2019
1,766
621
113
#90
Wow.. if I didn't I would walk away
 
The_Watchers_2017

The_Watchers_2017

Banned
#91
Jun 20, 2022
6,460
1,330
113
#91
Everything I know that is INSPIRED I absolutely believe.

But the things we know that have been ADDED from the 4th Century to the 10th Century absolutely NOT!!
 
Bob-Carabbio

Bob-Carabbio

Well-known member
#92
Jun 24, 2020
1,589
794
113
#92
Runningman said:
seems like almost immediately after the apple fell from the tree, so to speak, that divisions started forming.
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Yup - I am of Paul / I am of Apollos / I am of Peter / I am of Dirk Novitsky / etc. That's all humanity and their "Theology" WILL EVER be capable of.

The reason folks came together in the '70s was that we all saw in the Spirit something much HIGHER than our "Precious defining doctrines" which suddenly became VERY unimportant. So to me, it couldn't matter less if the United Methodists (or the Baptists, or the RCC) "go through Splits". It couldn't be less important in the grand scale of things. When it's TIME, there'll be an outpouring of the Holy Spirit like the World has never seen.

I expect that to happen again on a much larger scale and the CHURCH will say: "EVEN SO COME LORD JESUS" - and mean it.
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#95
Jan 13, 2016
17,089
3,681
113
#95
VARob said:
What about people who don't speak English? What did people do in the ~1600 years before the KJV was translated?
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If we had the "originals" what would people do who did not speak Hebrew or Greek? For a couple thousand years, God mostly spoke to a certain group of people, the Jews.
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#96
Jan 13, 2016
17,089
3,681
113
#96
notonmywatch said:
Genesis 42

23And they knew not that Joseph understood them; for he spake unto them by an interpreter.

Your point?
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And yet, in the "originals" we have Joseph's words he spoke in Egyptian translated to Hebrew...and that translation is the "originals." Can a translation be inspired of God? Absolutely!
 
G

Gojira

Guest
#97
#97
Here's my 2 cents...

The Bible is GOD's word to us. Period. It is not to be tampered with or altered or disregarded. As someone said here, it's a spiritual book for spiritual people, people who bear the Holy Spirit. To others it will be foolishness.

Now... do I believe everything literally? No. The Book of Revelation uses allegory to describe political and spiritual powers that will dominate the earth at some future point. But... do I believe the book of the Revelation? As much as I am able to understand it, yes.

Do I have a problem or any difficulty with some passages? Absolutely. But, I do my best to somehow accept those on faith.
 
V

VARob

Banned
#98
Dec 21, 2020
1,825
474
83
#98
John146 said:
If we had the "originals" what would people do who did not speak Hebrew or Greek?
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:) You're making my point. We need translations. Translations are not God-breathed.

For a couple thousand years, God mostly spoke to a certain group of people, the Jews.
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What about between the first century and 1600?
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#99
Jan 13, 2016
17,089
3,681
113
#99
VARob said:
:) You're making my point. We need translations. Translations are not God-breathed.


What about between the first century and 1600?
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We take the KJV and translate it to other languages.;)

Between the first and 16th century, God was perfectly preserving his words. God never said that he would preserve his words in every language, only that his words would be preserved.
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#100
Jan 13, 2016
17,089
3,681
113
#100
Gojira said:
Here's my 2 cents...

The Bible is GOD's word to us. Period. It is not to be tampered with or altered or disregarded. As someone said here, it's a spiritual book for spiritual people, people who bear the Holy Spirit. To others it will be foolishness.

Now... do I believe everything literally? No. The Book of Revelation uses allegory to describe political and spiritual powers that will dominate the earth at some future point. But... do I believe the book of the Revelation? As much as I am able to understand it, yes.

Do I have a problem or any difficulty with some passages? Absolutely. But, I do my best to somehow accept those on faith.
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Does it contain errors?
 
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