Do you believe in (OSAS) Once Saved, Always Saved?

[arthurfleminger]

RCC stands for Roman Catholic Church....not....Roman Christian Church.

In all fairness, the word Catholic means 'universal' encompassing the world. Note that the Baptist/Methodists/Presbyterian/Episcopalians/Lutherant/Anabaptists/Nondenoms......churches.....etc/etal........ don't have 'Christian' in the official title/name of their church.

 

[XavierJesusLovesIndia]

Free Grace said:
Also, anyone who believes they have a verse that does indicate that salvation can be lost are basically saying that the Bible is internally contradicted.

Kinda like word games. To be saved is to be justified. They cannot be separated. And the bottom line issue is salvation.


Yes, I can. The Bible does say in various places that people have fallen away. Does that mean salvation/justification? No, it does not.

It means they quit believing, or simply rebelled against obedience toward God. And these things lead some to react by saying they can't possibly still be saved.


I don't know what this means. I find two kinds of sanctification in the Bible.

1. positional sanctification is the sanctification of the believer on the basis of being IN UNION with Christ. Eph 2 is full of "in Him", "in Christ", etc that reflects this kind of sanctification.
2. experiential sanctification is the experience of spiritual growth, or lack thereof.


Excuse me, but there is no mention of "perseverance" in John 10, and no mention of it as a gift.

In v.28 Jesus said that recipients of eternal life shall never perish. And eternal life is a gift, a free gift. Once given, the recipient shall never perish. Not ever. No never.

Throughout the NT there are commands to "continue in the faith" or "remain in the faith", etc. Perseverance isn't automatic or guaranteed for the believer. Many do NOT persevere in the faith. They give up. They leave the faith; stop attending church, stop reading their Bible, if they ever did, stop praying, etc.

None of this results in loss of salvation/eternal life/positional justification.

Once saved, always saved.

Once belief, never condemned.

Hi Free Grace.

Ok, your position seems to be one can "leave the faith; stop attending church, stop reading their Bible, if they ever did, stop praying, etc." yet "None of this results in loss of salvation/eternal life/positional justification."

Unfortunately, that's not what Heb 10:29 says. It says: "29 How much more severely do you think someone deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified them, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace?"

This person was truly sanctified. Yet the Word says punishment awaits them. How then can you say they will be rewarded?

The verse continues to describe who will be rewarded by the Lord, those who persevere, just as the Lord Himself said in Mat 24:12-13.

"35 So do not throw away your confidence; it will be richly rewarded. 36 You need to persevere so that when you have done the will of God, you will receive what he has promised."

Vs 38, quoting Hab 2:4 says the Lord has "no pleasure" in those who draw back. Are you saying they are still saved?

The Word says in 1 Cor 6:9-11 that adulterers etc will not inherit the kingdom of God.

"9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God."

It says that no one who hates his brother, or is a murder, has eternal life abiding in him.

"Anyone who hates a brother or sister is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life residing in him." (1 Jn 3:15)

Are you saying someone can commit apostasy, adultery, murder, hatred, sodomy etc etc etc and still have eternal life abiding in him?

The sin unto death referred to in 1 Jn 5:16-17 is, logically, given the context of 1 Jn above, the sin that causes us to lose eternal life. John is clear that a brother, i.e. a fellow Christian can commit such a sin. From other verses, apostasy, adultery, hatred, murder etc are such sins.

Again, in Rev 2:10, the Lord reveals He wants to give us the Crown of Life as our reward for being faithful to Him, but the condition to obtain it is to be "faithful unto death": "Be faithful until death, and I will give you the Crown of Life." (Rev 2:10)

And so who are Christ's Elect, whom He calls His own sheep, in John 10? Clearly, those who persevere to the end, and not those who draw back unto perdition. Hence, He said clearly: "12 And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold. 13 But he who endures to the end shall be saved." (Mat 24:12-13). Who are those who grow cold in love? Those who sin by adultery, murder etc.

Who are those who are saved? Those who endure to the end. These are the ones whom no one snatches from the Lord's Hand.

God Bless.

 

[BeeThePeace]

Once saved, always saved is not supported by the entire Bible. Here is James 2. There is no such thing as genuine faith without works.

2 My brothers and sisters, believers in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ must not show favoritism. 2 Suppose a man comes into your meeting wearing a gold ring and fine clothes, and a poor man in filthy old clothes also comes in. 3 If you show special attention to the man wearing fine clothes and say, “Here’s a good seat for you,” but say to the poor man, “You stand there” or “Sit on the floor by my feet,” 4 have you not discriminated among yourselves and become judges with evil thoughts?
5 Listen, my dear brothers and sisters: Has not God chosen those who are poor in the eyes of the world to be rich in faith and to inherit the kingdom he promised those who love him? 6 But you have dishonored the poor. Is it not the rich who are exploiting you? Are they not the ones who are dragging you into court? 7 Are they not the ones who are blaspheming the noble name of him to whom you belong?
8 If you really keep the royal law found in Scripture, “Love your neighbor as yourself,”[a] you are doing right. 9 But if you show favoritism, you sin and are convicted by the law as lawbreakers. 10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it. 11 For he who said, “You shall not commit adultery,”[b] also said, “You shall not murder.”[c] If you do not commit adultery but do commit murder, you have become a lawbreaker.
12 Speak and act as those who are going to be judged by the law that gives freedom, 13 because judgment without mercy will be shown to anyone who has not been merciful. Mercy triumphs over judgment.
Faith and Deeds
14 What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? 15 Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. 16 If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? 17 In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.
18 But someone will say, “You have faith; I have deeds.”
Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds. 19 You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder.
20 You foolish person, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless[d]? 21 Was not our father Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? 22 You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. 23 And the scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,”[e] and he was called God’s friend. 24 You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone.
25 In the same way, was not even Rahab the prostitute considered righteous for what she did when she gave lodging to the spies and sent them off in a different direction? 26 As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.

Once saved, always saved is not supported by the entire Bible. Here is James 2. There is no such thing as genuine faith without works.

2 My brothers and sisters, believers in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ must not show favoritism. 2 Suppose a man comes into your meeting wearing a gold ring and fine clothes, and a poor man in filthy old clothes also comes in. 3 If you show special attention to the man wearing fine clothes and say, “Here’s a good seat for you,” but say to the poor man, “You stand there” or “Sit on the floor by my feet,” 4 have you not discriminated among yourselves and become judges with evil thoughts?
5 Listen, my dear brothers and sisters: Has not God chosen those who are poor in the eyes of the world to be rich in faith and to inherit the kingdom he promised those who love him? 6 But you have dishonored the poor. Is it not the rich who are exploiting you? Are they not the ones who are dragging you into court? 7 Are they not the ones who are blaspheming the noble name of him to whom you belong?
8 If you really keep the royal law found in Scripture, “Love your neighbor as yourself,”[a] you are doing right. 9 But if you show favoritism, you sin and are convicted by the law as lawbreakers. 10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it. 11 For he who said, “You shall not commit adultery,”[b] also said, “You shall not murder.”[c] If you do not commit adultery but do commit murder, you have become a lawbreaker.
12 Speak and act as those who are going to be judged by the law that gives freedom, 13 because judgment without mercy will be shown to anyone who has not been merciful. Mercy triumphs over judgment.
Faith and Deeds
14 What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? 15 Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. 16 If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? 17 In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.
18 But someone will say, “You have faith; I have deeds.”
Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds. 19 You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder.
20 You foolish person, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless[d]? 21 Was not our father Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? 22 You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. 23 And the scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,”[e] and he was called God’s friend. 24 You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone.
25 In the same way, was not even Rahab the prostitute considered righteous for what she did when she gave lodging to the spies and sent them off in a different direction? 26 As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.

Eternal Irrevocable Salvation is absolute and scripture.

The good works Christians perform by the leading of God and for his kingdom are evidence of our being in his saving grace. They are not, cannot, be a means if securing our Salvation.

Faith without work is dead is true. If we claim Christ and his grace and Salvation and sit on our laurels and don't serve his calling, we lie. We're selfish and dead in spirit. Because we can't help but do good with the holy spirit leading us to act.

It's not a thought, it's not a selfish material gain as in, I'll do this and God will bless me for it. Rather, it's a leading, a compulsive act in the moment and for a lifetime.

If we don't do good things as a Christian, we're not one.

 

[Magenta]

It is only the person who is not believing in Jesus Christ who is condemned because of sin.

I agree. My Bible affirms that blasphemy of/against the Holy Spirit is the only unforgivable sin, also Jesus said so!

 

[Snacks]

It’s almost as if you think if you say these erroneous points over and over, that will somehow make them true.
All these questions have been asked and answered multiple times, by multiple people.
You just keep ignoring the Biblical answers.

Pearls before swine

 

[XavierJesusLovesIndia]

To be clear, I believe there are Good Christians, who believe OSAS, and who will, by God's Grace, endure to the end and be saved, just like there are Good Christians who don't believe OSAS, and who will, by God's Grace, persevere to the end and be saved. A theological disagreement doesn't cause anyone to lose salvation. Believing and Loving Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior will save us.

I do believe, however, there are some dangers in OSAS, especially if it is interpreted as "I can commit whatever sin I like and still never be lost". If it is interpreted as "because God has justified/saved me from sin, I must strive to persevere to the end", then there's no issue.

God Bless.

 

[BeeThePeace]

Runningman said:
None of those replies or verses show that the rapture occurs in a pre-great tribulation timeline. Sorry I don’t mean to derail this thread but pre-trib rapture is another bogus false doctrine. That’s my official stance. Please carry on.

I was brought up in a Christian home and was taught in a pre-trib rapture from my youth. But when I was challenged on that view, I was unable to defend or support it from Scripture.

I certainly agree that Scripture is the official stance! But 1 Thess 4 says nothing about Jesus taking the glorified believers to heaven.

What verse shows that Jesus will take glorified believers to heaven?

Thanks.




The Saints are not to suffer God's anger. 1 Thessalonians 1 and also chapter 5.

There shall be converts after this because people will be able to be saved because God will continue to call out to them. Revelation 7.

[/QUOTE]
Many verses have been posted already. 1 Thessalonians 4, etc...
Take a look at this article that includes many of those scriptures and what I think is a good narrative that ties them together.

https://www.raptureready.com/2019/12/15/biblical-case-pretribulation-rapture/

 

[XavierJesusLovesIndia]

 

[arthurfleminger]

It seems as though a lot of us Protestants have a great deal of faith in the OSAS tenet/credo/doctrine. And we seem to be taking advantage of it as much as we can with sexual abuse in our churches. Thank goodness we can sin all we want and still can't lose our salvation.

Just how guilty are we Protestants of the same sexual abuses that we like to point our finger at the Catholics. Maybe we need to take a close look in the mirror and see the 'LOG' in our own eye!!!!!!!!

How Common Is Sexual Abuse in the Protestant Church?

A recent study sponsored by LifeWay Christian Resources reveals that 10% of Protestants under the age of 35 have left the church previously because they felt that sexual abuse and misconduct were not taken seriously by the church. This is is twice any many people as the 5% of churchgoers from any religion who have walked away due to the mishandling of sexual abuse. Among younger people, 9% stated that they were no longer attending their former church because they did not feel protected from sexual misconduct.

Churchgoers between the ages of 18 to 34 are more likely than older churchgoers to report sexual abuse or harassment at church. Twenty-three percent of parishioners also know more people in their congregation who are victims.

More on Sexual Abuse in Protestant Churches

More than 375 leaders and volunteers in the Southern Baptist church have been charged with some form of sexual misconduct over the past 12 years. Over 200 of these volunteers and leaders pled guilty or were convicted for their crimes. However, the Southern Baptist Convention will not take significant steps to stop abuse in churches, claiming that each church should act independently to tend to this matter. As a result, several pastors and leaders who are registered sex offenders or accused of sexual misconduct are permitted to maintain their position in the church.

Several victims were pressured by their church leaders not to report sexual abuse. In some cases, victims were told that they brought on the abuse because of their sinful nature.

For sure we don't like to hear these things about ourselves, but they are true. It is easy to research Protestant sexual abuse cases on line, but we prefer not to. Hear no evil/See no evil........Out of Sight and out of mind. But, but, but God sees what's going on.

THANK GOODNESS WE CAN BE SEXUAL DEVIANTS AND PEDOPHILES AND STILL KNOW WE ARE SAVED!

 

[arthurfleminger]

I'm wondering about pre-Nazi Germany, for sure a Christian country, albeit composed primarily of Lutherans and Catholics. After Hitler took power and showed up, many completely abandoned the Christian faith altogether. After all Jesus was a Jew and Nazi's couldn't be worshipping a Jew as their God.

The German people were solidly behind Hitler, he showed them victory after victory. Not only did the German people, who were once Christian, follow Hitler but they enthusiastically murdered Jewish men/women/children in the most cruel fashion possible. And they thought they were doing good, in fact the German soldier's belt buckle was engraved with the motto, 'Gott Mitt Uns' as they were doing all of the murdering. And, of course, the murdering wasn't confined to Jews but also to millions of Russians, Poles, and anyone else who defied their authority.

ALL I CAN SAY IS THAT IT IS SOOOOO LUCKY THAT MOST OF THESE NAZIS WERE CHRISTIAN AT ONE POINT. SO EVEN AFTER THEY TURNED INTO PAGAN MURDERS, GOD LOOKED THE OTHER WAY BECAUSE THEY'D BEEN SAVED PREVIOUSLY, EARLIER ON IN LIFE, THROUGH THE DOCTRINE OF OSAS!

ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED, "HOW SWEET IT IS!!!!!!"

 

[GracethroughfaithinChrist]

Thanks for proving my point.

Let's see who's ignorance according to the word of God, because you quoted Romans 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. But what law is Paul talking about here? Paul is talking about the animal sacrificial law, that's the deed of the law.

Romans 3: 1-8 "God remains faithful"
Romans 3: 9-20 "There is no one righteous"
Romans 3: 21-31 "Justified by faith"

Again I say, To teach someone that all they have to do is believe on Christ and you are saved is a doctrine of the devil.
So you quoted this verse John 6:47, which is the truth

John 6:47
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.

John 3:36
He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

 

[XavierJesusLovesIndia]

Yes, it's unfortunate, but OSAS can be interpreted in a way that gives free reign to complete lawlessness/licentiousness. In various passages, the Apostles warn that some turn the Grace of God into licentiousness, and that we should take care not to do the same.

I strongly disagree with this statement of Martin Luther to Philip Melanchton: "If you are a preacher of grace, then preach a true and not a fictitious grace; if grace is true, you must bear a true and not a fictitious sin. God does not save people who are only fictitious sinners. Be a sinner and sin boldly, but believe and rejoice in Christ even more boldly, for he is victorious over sin, death, and the world. As long as we are in this world we have to sin. This life is not the dwelling place of righteousness but, as Peter says, we look for a new heaven and a new earth in which righteousness dwells (2 Peter 3:13). It is enough that by the riches of God’s glory we have come to know the Lamb that takes away the sin of the world (John 1:29).

No sin will separate us from the Lamb, even though we commit fornication and murder a thousand times a day" (cited in Hendrix, Martin Luther, 121-122).

This is the complete opposite of what the Apostles teach. They say those who go on committing fornication and murder, let alone " a thousand times a day", will not inherit the Kingdom of God, and do not have Eternal Life abiding in them.

By contrast, however, the Methodist/Wesleyan doctrine of "complete sanctification", seen as the Second Work of the Holy Spirit, after justification, teaches believers to strive to be Perfect, just as the Heavenly Father is perfect, as Our Lord taught.

"Holiness Pentecostal denominations (also known as Wesleyan Pentecostals or Methodistic Pentecostals) believe in entire sanctification.[71] Inheriting Wesleyan-Arminian theology from the holiness movement within Methodism, Holiness Pentecostals are the original[71] branch of Pentecostalism and these denominations include the International Pentecostal Holiness Church, the Church of God (Cleveland) and the Church of God in Christ. [72][73] For these Pentecostals, entire sanctification is the second work of grace in a series of three distinct blessings that Christians experience ... The testimony of those who attended the Azusa Street Revival was "I am saved, sanctified, and filled with the Holy Ghost" in reference to the three works of grace of Holiness Pentecostals, the oldest branch of Pentecostalism.[71]" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_perfection#Holiness_Pentecostalism

 

[Magenta]

In all fairness, the word Catholic means 'universal' encompassing the world. Note that the Baptist/Methodists/Presbyterian/Episcopalians/Lutherant/Anabaptists/Nondenoms......
churches.....etc/etal........ don't have 'Christian' in the official title/name of their church.

The word "catholic" means universal but the word "Catholic" does not.

Very important distinction

 

[XavierJesusLovesIndia]

The word "Catholic" indeed means Universal, as we know, and it has historically been used to describe the Church since Apostolic times. I've been to Protestant Churches where the Apostles' Creed is still recited: "I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Holy Catholic Church" etc.

St. Ignatius of Antioch, who was a companion of St. John the Apostle, used it in his writings: "He is also responsible for the first known use of the Greek word katholikos (καθολικός), or catholic, meaning "universal", "complete" and "whole" to describe the Church, writing:

"Wherever the bishop appears, there let the people be; as wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church."

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignatius_of_Antioch

 

[Magenta]

The word "Catholic" indeed means Universal, as we know, and it has historically been used to describe the Church since Apostolic times. I've been to Protestant Churches where the Apostles' Creed is still recited: "I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Holy Catholic Church" etc.

We do not say catholic with a capital T. Perhaps Catholics do. And of course there
is a reason why they do. They used to burn protestants at the stake, after all...

 

[XavierJesusLovesIndia]

Hi Magenta.

Regarding Catholic and small c catholic, ok.

But regarding the other thing, I disagree.

Both Catholics and Protestants have done wrong things, of that there is no doubt. All have sinned and fallen short of the Glory of God. Protestants also persecuted not only Catholics (e.g. in Germany and England, after the Reformation), but also other Protestants, e.g. the Anabaptists. Today, virtually every Christian of every denomination agrees that persecuting other Christians for their Faith is wrong.

""At all events, the argument that the persecutions for heresy, perpetrated by the Catholics, constitute a reason why one should not enter the Catholic Church, has not a particle more force than a similar argument would have against one's entering the Protestant Church. In both there have been those deserving of blame in this respect, and what applies to one applies also to the other." (92:204-5,209-l0)"

Source: http://catholicapologetics.info/apologetics/protestantism/protin.htm

God Bless.

 

[Magenta]

Hi Magenta.

Regarding Catholic and small c catholic, ok.

But regarding the other thing, I disagree.

Both Catholics and Protestants have done wrong things, of that there is no doubt. All have sinned and fallen short of the Glory of God. Protestants also persecuted not only Catholics (e.g. in Germany and England, after the Reformation), but also other Protestants, e.g. the Anabaptists. Today, virtually every Christian of every denomination agrees that persecuting other Christians for their Faith is wrong.

""At all events, the argument that the persecutions for heresy, perpetrated by the Catholics, constitute a reason why one should not enter the Catholic Church, has not a particle more force than a similar argument would have against one's entering the Protestant Church. In both there have been those deserving of blame in this respect, and what applies to one applies also to the other." (92:204-5,209-l0)"

Source: http://catholicapologetics.info/apologetics/protestantism/protin.htm

God Bless.

Yes, the warring and murdering go right back to the first two offspring, and I doubt there has been much let-up since then. We live in a fallen world, and none are exempt; all fall short. Still, in a manner of speaking, it is important to know whether one backs Cain, or Able. Able did was was right in the eyes of the Lord. Cain did not, and slew his brother over it. When it comes to the position of protestants regarding the idolatry and carnage of the RCC, it seems obvious that the RCC had power and authority which they abused for a very long time before any major uprising against such abuses turned the tide.

Catholic historian Vergerius admits gleefully that during the Pontificate of Pope Paul IV (1555-1559) "the Inquisition alone, by tortures, starvation, or the fire, murdered more than 150,000 Protestants." These are only small samples of the brutality which was poured out upon "dissident" Christians by the Roman Catholic Church during the Inquisition.

Here (<= link) is a page on the matter

 

[Grandpa]

OSAS is not to be.

Otherwise why would God give us;

Unlimited number of times we can receive forgiveness....wouldn't one application work?
why does scripture warn us about backsliding?
Why does scripture warn us that it would be better that we would have never known of God's revealing for us?
why does scripture warn us ....do not allow any man to steal your crowns?
Why does scripture say...maintain (Righteousness) until the end?
Why does scripture intent show God/Christ/Holy spirit cannot reside where sin is present?
Further, the concept is in conflict with God's intent that we prepare ourselves and live a righteous life.
Why does scriptures say...My spirit will not always strive with man...
etc..

Further,
it is an interpretation of scriptures which did not exists prior to the 1960's....which is telling.

If we could be saved by our works of "righteousness" then there was no point in the Lord Jesus being the Sacrificial Lamb of God.

And when God decides to save a person why would He then let them become "un-saved" which contradicts everything He Does and Says?

Maybe you didn't catch that part about no man being able to pluck anyone from Gods Hand?

Or perhaps you misunderstand the meaning of "I will Never leave you nor forsake you"...?

 

[Magenta]

Bertrand, the Papal Legate, wrote a letter to Pope Honorius, desiring to be recalled from the
croisade against the primitive witnesses and contenders for the faith. In that authentic
document, he stated, that within fifteen years, 300,000 of those crossed soldiers had
become victims to their own fanatical and blind fury. Their unrelenting and insatiable
thirst for Christian and human blood spared none within the reach of their impetuous
despotism and unrestricted usurpations. On the river Garonne, a conflict occurred
between the croisaders, with their ecclesiastical leaders, the Prelates of Thoulouse
and Comminges; who solemnly promised to all their vassals the full pardon of sin, and
the possession of heaven immediately, if they were slain in the battle. The Spanish
monarch and his confederates acknowledged that they must have lost 400,000 men,
in that tremendous conflict, and immediately after it-but the Papists boasted, that
including the women and children, they had massacred more than two millions
of the human family, in that solitary croisade against the southwest part of France.

> In only one crusade, two million Albigenses were killed. How many must there
have been altogether, and how many millions more must have been killed
during the entire Middle Ages! Another source writes

> The Catholic crusade against the Albigenses in Southern France (from 1209-1229),
under Popes Innocent III., Honorius III. and Gregory IX., was one of the
bloodiest tragedies in human history. … The number of Albigenses that
perished in the twenty years’ war is estimated at from one to two millions.

From the same source given in previous post.

 

[FreeGrace2]

No one loses salvation because of sins they commit. For the believer in Jesus Christ, any and all sins that they commit are forgiven through the atoning blood sacrifice of Jesus.

AMEN!

It is only the person who is not believing in Jesus Christ who is condemned because of sin.

To be even more clear, it is only those who "never believed" that will be condemned.

John 3:18 - Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

2 Thess 2:12 - and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.

The words "have not believed" in both verses mean NEVER believed.