-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
H
Amen! you are right on. Jesus is God.
I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am He, ye shall die in your sins. John 8:24
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit,seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory. 1 Timothy 3:16
But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. Hebrews 1:8
Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? He that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
B
I
Here, our God is the holy one of Israel.
Mark 1:23-24
And there was in their synagogue a man with an unclean spirit; and he cried out,
24Saying, Let us alone; what have we to do with thee, thou Jesus of Nazareth? art thou come to destroy us? I know thee who thou art, the Holy One of God.
The Father is the holy one of Israel while Jesus is the holy one of God.
Who is "our" God?
John 20:17
Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
There are now two beings. The invisible spirit being of the Father and the glorified body of Christ. God has done what He set out to accomplish in recreating Himself.
Mark 1:23-24
And there was in their synagogue a man with an unclean spirit; and he cried out,
24Saying, Let us alone; what have we to do with thee, thou Jesus of Nazareth? art thou come to destroy us? I know thee who thou art, the Holy One of God.
The Father is the holy one of Israel while Jesus is the holy one of God.
Who is "our" God?
John 20:17
Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
There are now two beings. The invisible spirit being of the Father and the glorified body of Christ. God has done what He set out to accomplish in recreating Himself.
A
2 Tim 1:10 explains that Jesus "brought life and immortality to light through the gospel". So although several Old Testament passages merely hinted at certain doctrines, these teachings were fully brought to light by Christ. Many concepts merely alluded to in the Old Testament, finally revealing themselves explicitly taught in the New Testament.
The following were all alluded to in the Old Testament though the Jews didn’t comprehend it fully:
Final resurrection (Ps 16:10; 17:13-15; Dan 12:1-12 = Jn 5:28)
Final judgement (Ps 96:13; Dan 7:10 = Rev 20:12)
The Messiah would be all of the following: both king and priest (Zech 6:13) and prophet (Deut 18:18) The Jews were looking for several different individuals and hadn't understood that Jesus would fulfill all three roles. (Acts 3:22; Jn 18:37; Heb 3:1)
The Messiah would be crucified (Isa 53 = Jn 19:6)
The Messiah must be killed (Dan 9:26 = Lk 9:22)
The Messiah was to be raised from the dead (Ps 16:10 + Lk 24:46)
Immortality and eternal life (Dan 12:3 = 2 Tim 1:10)
That the first covenant (10 Commandments) would be abolished and replaced by a new covenant (Jer 31:31f = Heb 8:6-13).
The Trinity (Gen 1:26 = Jn 1:1; 20:28; Mt 28:19)
Some of the concepts alluded to in the Old Testament, were misunderstood by the Jews because they misinterpreted the scriptures.. just like cults and heretical sects do today.
I have a really neat post I made earlier showing scriptures in the Old Testament where God reveals his trinue nature. Good stuff
.
The following were all alluded to in the Old Testament though the Jews didn’t comprehend it fully:
Final resurrection (Ps 16:10; 17:13-15; Dan 12:1-12 = Jn 5:28)
Final judgement (Ps 96:13; Dan 7:10 = Rev 20:12)
The Messiah would be all of the following: both king and priest (Zech 6:13) and prophet (Deut 18:18) The Jews were looking for several different individuals and hadn't understood that Jesus would fulfill all three roles. (Acts 3:22; Jn 18:37; Heb 3:1)
The Messiah would be crucified (Isa 53 = Jn 19:6)
The Messiah must be killed (Dan 9:26 = Lk 9:22)
The Messiah was to be raised from the dead (Ps 16:10 + Lk 24:46)
Immortality and eternal life (Dan 12:3 = 2 Tim 1:10)
That the first covenant (10 Commandments) would be abolished and replaced by a new covenant (Jer 31:31f = Heb 8:6-13).
The Trinity (Gen 1:26 = Jn 1:1; 20:28; Mt 28:19)
Some of the concepts alluded to in the Old Testament, were misunderstood by the Jews because they misinterpreted the scriptures.. just like cults and heretical sects do today.
I have a really neat post I made earlier showing scriptures in the Old Testament where God reveals his trinue nature. Good stuff
.
E
Hi BananaPie,
I don't know how to marry these quotes. I am not a Christian of many years so there are many areas which I have not ventured into. I am led by the Spirit as you will understand if you read my daily witnessing statements. Jesus decides the order in which I learn. This subject has been on my mind a little lately and maybe it will be the next subject that Jesus takes me to.
I suspect without going further than that, suspicion, that Jesus was the Lord in the Old Testament.
love
edwin
I don't know how to marry these quotes. I am not a Christian of many years so there are many areas which I have not ventured into. I am led by the Spirit as you will understand if you read my daily witnessing statements. Jesus decides the order in which I learn. This subject has been on my mind a little lately and maybe it will be the next subject that Jesus takes me to.
I suspect without going further than that, suspicion, that Jesus was the Lord in the Old Testament.
love
edwin
E
Hi Israel,
I have absolutely no problem or difficult issue in how I see God ( Father) and Son (God)
God ( Father) is many things but foremost He is LOVE. I look to my own heart. My love makes me almost desperately want to share all good things I have. That is where my joy is, in sharing. I believe that this "love sharing" attitude I have is a gift from God. The few cd's and dvds and all and sundry I have left are the ones I like the least. The ones I like I have given away. I have owned many times the smaller priced things I love so that I too may share in them but it does not take long before I find someone I want to share it with and then I dont have it anymore.
IT is for this reason, I believe, that God begat Himself a Son and through His Son a creation. Because He is LOVE and He wants to give and give good things.
love
edwin
I have absolutely no problem or difficult issue in how I see God ( Father) and Son (God)
God ( Father) is many things but foremost He is LOVE. I look to my own heart. My love makes me almost desperately want to share all good things I have. That is where my joy is, in sharing. I believe that this "love sharing" attitude I have is a gift from God. The few cd's and dvds and all and sundry I have left are the ones I like the least. The ones I like I have given away. I have owned many times the smaller priced things I love so that I too may share in them but it does not take long before I find someone I want to share it with and then I dont have it anymore.
IT is for this reason, I believe, that God begat Himself a Son and through His Son a creation. Because He is LOVE and He wants to give and give good things.
love
edwin
A
You are correct VW.
(1) There is one and only one God. The biblical, theological, and historical evidence for God's absolute
oneness has been established in scripture and history.
(2) There are three distinct persons who are God: The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Three Different Persons Are God: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
In addition to declaring God to be one in nature or essence, the scriptures affirm that there are three distinct persons who are God. All are called God, and all have the essential characteristics of a person. Personhood is traditionally understood as one who has intellect, feelings, and will.
All three of these characteristics are attributed to all three members of the Trinity in Scripture. Essentially, personhood refers to an "I," a "who," or a subject. Each "I" in the Trinity possesses (by virtue of its one common nature) the power to think, feel, and choose. Personhood itself is its I-ness or who-ness.
Each person of the one God has a functional role.
VW, check out this article written by a Messanic Jew from Jews for Jesus titled A Look at the Trinity From a Messianic Jewish Perspective by Richard Harvey.
A Look at the Trinity From a Messianic Jewish Perspective - http://www.jewsforjesus.org/publications/issues/10_8/trinity/
(1) There is one and only one God. The biblical, theological, and historical evidence for God's absolute
oneness has been established in scripture and history.
(2) There are three distinct persons who are God: The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Three Different Persons Are God: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
In addition to declaring God to be one in nature or essence, the scriptures affirm that there are three distinct persons who are God. All are called God, and all have the essential characteristics of a person. Personhood is traditionally understood as one who has intellect, feelings, and will.
All three of these characteristics are attributed to all three members of the Trinity in Scripture. Essentially, personhood refers to an "I," a "who," or a subject. Each "I" in the Trinity possesses (by virtue of its one common nature) the power to think, feel, and choose. Personhood itself is its I-ness or who-ness.
Each person of the one God has a functional role.
VW, check out this article written by a Messanic Jew from Jews for Jesus titled A Look at the Trinity From a Messianic Jewish Perspective by Richard Harvey.
A Look at the Trinity From a Messianic Jewish Perspective - http://www.jewsforjesus.org/publications/issues/10_8/trinity/
You make some very good points. I myself have been called a heretic and told I have no true Christianity because I simply see Jesus as the eternal divine Son of God and dare to believe that the Father is greater than the Son as Jesus Himself stated.
It is my belief that if we believe Jesus is the Son of God, that he died for our sins on the cross. If we repent of our sin and ask him into our lives as Lord and Saviour we are saved, and are on very safe Biblical ground with this. At least 95% of all statements concerning Christ in the NT refer to him as the Son of God.
I believe those who openly oppose this view and call people heretics or say they have no true Christianity with this view need to pause hard and think. What are they really achieving? Because if someone cannot simply accept Jesus as the eternal Son of God who was with the Father from the begining and beliueve the Father isd gr3eater than the Son it is hard to get away from the fact that much of the NT at the least will inevitably by many be called into question.
I for one do not nor will ever believe that anyone who simply believes Christ is the eternal Son of God is not a true Christian. The thought of having a Bible where 95% of the statements in it concerning Jesus cannot be accepted for true Christianity can only bring doubts on the authenticity of the word of God. People should stop and consider this when wishing to promote their own views and consider calling others heretics.
What really matters the most here? Peoples desire to prove they have the absolute answer to the relationship of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit or a willingness to accept as fellow Christians people who accept at least 95% of the references to Christ in the NT.
I think people also need to consider something else. What if God has accepted someone who takes my view on this? What will he think if other Christians consider someone with my thoughts on this subject a heretic and that I have no true Christianity? We will all be answereabl to Jesus on the day of judgement, we need to remember that.
Are we really here discussing something that will bar people from Heaven if they accept Jesus as the eternal Son of God and leave it at that? In my own mind I know God would never cast anyone out of Heaven for believing that.
I have no problem with people saying Jesus is God, I hope people can accept that I simply see Jesus as the divine Son of God. There are more important issues to me for the Christian than trying to totally understand the working out of Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Can any of us really fathom all of this? But of course we do like to believe we can. To me I have in the past spent far too long discussing this subject. It can take away from what is most important in the Chrisatian life. Coming closer to God through his Son and fixing our eyes on Jesus and trusting him and relying on the Holy Spirit to sanctify us.
So I will call no-one a heretic or say they have no true Christianoty or condemn them. But if anyone does believe this of someone who thinks like me. What will you say to Christ on the judgement day if he asks you why you called someone a heretic or said they had no true Christianity because they believed the words he spoke on this earth.
And while I disagree with you in you view of God, it is not an issue where I would call you deceived or even worse, lost. We each have reason for what we believe, else we would not believe it. How did James put it? You believe that God is one. You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder.
The thread on Revelation 5 is some of why I believe as I do.
Anyway, I do not believe that this is an issue where we should use language of condemnation, or even of a reviling nature. I hope and pray that we all see that it is us each in Jesus Christ, in His life and filled with His Spirit that brings us together, and not doctrine. If it is by doctrine that we have our unity, then it is not by God's glory, which is the same glory that His Father gave Him.(John 17:22-24)
In His grace,
vic
The thread on Revelation 5 is some of why I believe as I do.
Anyway, I do not believe that this is an issue where we should use language of condemnation, or even of a reviling nature. I hope and pray that we all see that it is us each in Jesus Christ, in His life and filled with His Spirit that brings us together, and not doctrine. If it is by doctrine that we have our unity, then it is not by God's glory, which is the same glory that His Father gave Him.(John 17:22-24)
In His grace,
vic
Originally Posted by Ricke
Good post VW.
I also beleive Jesus is God manifest in The flesh. I beleive that there is only One Lord and One God. I also beleive in The Holy Spirit. What I do not beleive is that 3 are separate persons with separate personalities...
Good post VW.
I also beleive Jesus is God manifest in The flesh. I beleive that there is only One Lord and One God. I also beleive in The Holy Spirit. What I do not beleive is that 3 are separate persons with separate personalities...
S
This is a great question! I have always believed in the trinity and saw Jesus as our only channel to God. He is Lord and Savior. I pray to Jesus knowing or believing He is the only way that I can get my message up to Our Father who is Holy. 1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all men--the testimony given in its proper time. When I consider all that is written or all that I've read I believe God is all and in all the Word manifested as flesh, the beginning, the end...
I just recently, some time in 2007, heard that Jesus is God for the first time from believers.
I just recently, some time in 2007, heard that Jesus is God for the first time from believers.
2 Tim 1:10 explains that Jesus "brought life and immortality to light through the gospel". So although several Old Testament passages merely hinted at certain doctrines, these teachings were fully brought to light by Christ. Many concepts merely alluded to in the Old Testament, finally revealing themselves explicitly taught in the New Testament.
The following were all alluded to in the Old Testament though the Jews didn’t comprehend it fully:
Final resurrection (Ps 16:10; 17:13-15; Dan 12:1-12 = Jn 5:28)
Final judgement (Ps 96:13; Dan 7:10 = Rev 20:12)
The Messiah would be all of the following: both king and priest (Zech 6:13) and prophet (Deut 18:18) The Jews were looking for several different individuals and hadn't understood that Jesus would fulfill all three roles. (Acts 3:22; Jn 18:37; Heb 3:1)
The Messiah would be crucified (Isa 53 = Jn 19:6)
The Messiah must be killed (Dan 9:26 = Lk 9:22)
The Messiah was to be raised from the dead (Ps 16:10 + Lk 24:46)
Immortality and eternal life (Dan 12:3 = 2 Tim 1:10)
That the first covenant (10 Commandments) would be abolished and replaced by a new covenant (Jer 31:31f = Heb 8:6-13).
The Trinity (Gen 1:26 = Jn 1:1; 20:28; Mt 28:19)
Some of the concepts alluded to in the Old Testament, were misunderstood by the Jews because they misinterpreted the scriptures.. just like cults and heretical sects do today.
I have a really neat post I made earlier showing scriptures in the Old Testament where God reveals his trinue nature. Good stuff.
The following were all alluded to in the Old Testament though the Jews didn’t comprehend it fully:
Final resurrection (Ps 16:10; 17:13-15; Dan 12:1-12 = Jn 5:28)
Final judgement (Ps 96:13; Dan 7:10 = Rev 20:12)
The Messiah would be all of the following: both king and priest (Zech 6:13) and prophet (Deut 18:18) The Jews were looking for several different individuals and hadn't understood that Jesus would fulfill all three roles. (Acts 3:22; Jn 18:37; Heb 3:1)
The Messiah would be crucified (Isa 53 = Jn 19:6)
The Messiah must be killed (Dan 9:26 = Lk 9:22)
The Messiah was to be raised from the dead (Ps 16:10 + Lk 24:46)
Immortality and eternal life (Dan 12:3 = 2 Tim 1:10)
That the first covenant (10 Commandments) would be abolished and replaced by a new covenant (Jer 31:31f = Heb 8:6-13).
The Trinity (Gen 1:26 = Jn 1:1; 20:28; Mt 28:19)
Some of the concepts alluded to in the Old Testament, were misunderstood by the Jews because they misinterpreted the scriptures.. just like cults and heretical sects do today.
I have a really neat post I made earlier showing scriptures in the Old Testament where God reveals his trinue nature. Good stuff
.
Why do all representations of three always equate specifically to 3 PERSONS. God is 3, but those 3 aren't persons. Any allusion to 3 is not an allusion to persons... just 3.
Trinity is not the mystery that hath been hid from ages and from generations. Something else is.