Do you know why you are a protestant???

[eternally-gratefull]

You have not really properly explained OSAS in any verse (using the context) that I have put forth.

Another strawman, I do not have to explain osas in those verses. I just have to prove they do not support one can lose grace, lose salvation, be KICKED OUT of GODS FAMILY. Which I did beyond a shadow of a doubt.

But yet many OSAS proponents will disagree with you.

I do not care what they think, I care what the word of God says, (They have no bearing or say in my eternal destination, only God does), Maybe one day you will too?

For many here have already voted in my poll that they can die in unrepentant sin (like lying, lusting, and hating) and still be saved. For them, no sin can truly separate you from Christ for all future sin is forgiven them. Yes, some will say you have to live a generally holy life, but what about the 5% evil that is done? Just sweep it under the carpet because you got your free ticket?

Yet you teach the same thing, Your self righteous holy puffed up gospel is nothing but excusing your own sin, You deny you live in sin, yet. You can not even see that your no different than a person who teaches licentiousness. The things which binds you both is the sin of pride. Him for saying he can live however he wants, and you for denying you have sin issues which would separate you from God.

The Scriptures say anyone who hates his brother is a murderer and does not have eternal life abiding in them. The Scriptures also say that any man who speaks contrary to the words of Jesus Christ and the doctrine of Godliness is proud and knows nothing. You cannot be a saved proud person who knows nothing. If a believer is saved it is because they have fellowship with Christ (God).

See you go here again, A person who is a child of God would never HATE his brother, you can say they can till you blue in the face, it will not make it true. You probably can not fathom why (even though it has been explained to you so many times) because you have not experienced Gods true love and forgiveness.

And no your wrong, we have fellowship with God because HE SAVED US. See how you again puff yourself up. Your salvation is based on your performance (works) and not grace. you just proved it again!

As I said before, Hebrews 3:12 refutes such thinking.

In your mind, and as I have proved it does not.

Then again, I guess you think people who complained from the day they left, and were so against the work of God ( in spite of Gods continued miracles through moses) they ended up making an Idol and caused Moses and Arron to sin, were saved.

You contradict yourself. you claim a person living in sin can;t be saved, yet you claim these people living in constant sin were saved.

So you are of the OSAS Lite belief that holds to the view that if anyone who practices sin was never born again to begin with? John MacArthur holds to this view and teaches this. However, the problem with this line of teaching is that it makes one always doubt the promises of God if they ever come to a point in their life if they do struggle with a sin (Whereby they are confessing it and striving to forsake it with God's help). For Luke 18:9-14 says that the man who cried out to God to have mercy on him in being a sinner was more justified than the man who did not think he was better than the Tax Collector and who did not humble himself before God.

No, John says it not me,

A child of God can not sin, because he has been born of God and can not sin. one who sins has NEVER SEEN GOD NOR KNOWN HIM.

And your luke example? thats you my friend, I go to God daily on my knees because I know I need his mercy, Your the one in here every day praising God how your not like the sinner, and blah blah blah.

that goes yet again to prove the blindness in your heart to the grace of God.

Not into playing games with you. I am sure I can name a verse whereby you will never guess it, too. But that is not why we are here. Christians are not out to impress who knows more than the other guy. Believers are called to love and to lead people into the arms of Christ and to help each other to walk in Christ's good ways (By the Lord working in them). You either want to talk about the Scriptures or you don't want to talk about them. The choice is yours.

lol. You do not want to talk about scripture, it is obvious, WHen you discuss scripture you study it, All you want to do is post a bunch of scripture out of context you think supports your gospel. It is no different than a catholic using two verses out of john 6 to support their holy eucharist, They have no desire to study the word, only shove their interpretation down your throat, or condemn you if you disagree with them.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Edit Correction:

Meant to say the Pharisee was not justified because he thought he was better than the Tax Collector and by the fact that he did not humble himself before God like the Tax Collector did.

And you wonder why we call you a pharasee,

That is exactly what you do. We have not only humbled ourself before God, we do it every day, and NEVER see ourselves as better than anyone else.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

So you believe in sinless perfectionism? I wouldn't have thought that. So you believe 1 Peter 4:1, Galatians 5:24, Romans 6:14 are teaching that a believer can stop sinning and never sin again because the power of God?

lol. Nice twist.

If I ever became sinless, I would stop needing grace. God says we need his grace till the day we die. Paul ran the race till he died because he never made it, Your a danger to the church and all people who follow you, because you have no room to grow You have already made it.

Does that include dying in unrepentant (Such as lying, lusting, and hating) with the thinking one is saved?
Or are you talking about how the believer who is chosen by God does not have free will after they have believed?

Who said a believer has no free will? A believer would never die in unrepentant sin, thats impossible. if he could, he never repented to begin with, and was never saved.

Your problem is you do not understand what repent means, You must repent before you have faith, you must have faith before God will save you.

I may still sin, But it does not mean I have not repented of that sin, it tears me up inside, Like paul in romans 7, Oh what a wretched man I am,

Careful what you say; For if you are wrong, then you would be speaking against the truth of God's Word.

For how do you disagree with the following?

#1. A person who first comes to the Lord admits they are a sinner and asks Jesus to forgive them of their sin and to be their Savior (This is past sin and not future sin).

#2. After being a believer: Christ then does the good work in them in the fact that they surrender or yield their life to the Lord.

#3. If any sin arises in a believer's life they confess and forsake that sin trusting in Jesus as their Savior and not themselves.

#4. Grace is not a license to get away with any kind of sin; Grace is for allowing the Lord to work in a person's life.

#5. Jesus Christ was manifested to destroy the works of the devil both in Justification (on the cross) and in Sanctification (in a person's life). A believer has the power of God working in them to stop sinning. For Paul says, sin shall not have dominion over you. Meaning, you will not be a slave to sin. For Jesus says he that sins is a slave to sin.

Alot of self works there.

Justification is a legal term, it means declared innocent of all wrongdoing, And it is based on the cross. which occured almost 2000 years ago. So either jesus paid the price of sin in full (whcih he claimed he did when he said it is finished, which in greek literally means "paid in full" or we are still dead in our sin for the sin jesus did not die for.

He either paid it all like he claimed, or he did not. and we are hopeless.

Take your self righteous sinless gospel someplace else. The church of God rejects it. as does God himself.

 

[valiant]

So you believe in sinless perfectionism? I wouldn't have thought that. So you believe 1 Peter 4:1, Galatians 5:24, Romans 6:14 are teaching that a believer can stop sinning and never sin again because the power of God?

such a belief could only be held by a madman or someone so hardened in sin that they no longer knew what sin was.

D

oes that include dying in unrepentant (Such as lying, lusting, and hating) with the thinking one is saved?

If we had to be repentant of all sin we would all die without hope. God justifies us while we are ungodly. Thus our justification does not spend on the state of our hearts but on God's infinite unmerited love and favour. You may not recognise your sins Jason, but we all recognise them, and so does God.

Or are you talking about how the believer who is chosen by God does not have free will after they have believed?

They don't have sufficient freewill to counteract God's purposes and promises. A child may have freewill, but it cannot do what father doesn't want it to do, unless father is not present. And our Father is ALWAYS present.


or how do you disagree with the following?

#1. A person who first comes to the Lord admits they are a sinner and asks Jesus to forgive them of their sin and to be their Savior (This is past sin and not future sin).

You are wrong as usual. They are forgiven for BEING sinners. not just for past sins. In Jesus' words they are 'bathed' . From then on they only have to wash their feet when they get dirty. THEY are washed, sanctified and justified.

#2. After being a believer: Christ then does the good work in them in the fact that they surrender or yield their life to the Lord.

Thank God I don't have to 'yield my life to the LORD'. It is God Who works within me and becomes my LORD. I simply respond, although necessarily insufficiently..

#3. If any sin arises in a believer's life they confess and forsake that sin trusting in Jesus as their Savior and not themselves.

True because He is CONTINUALLY their Savior, not because He at that moment becomes their Savior for the hundredth time.

#4. Grace is not a license to get away with any kind of sin; Grace is for allowing the Lord to work in a person's life.

You really haven't a clue what grace is LOL. Grace doesn't 'allow' God to do anything. Grace IS God acting in unmerited favour and love. He doesn't need to be 'allowed' to do anything. He does what He wants. No genuine Christian argues that because God has acted in grace towards him he is free to do what he wants. Grace is God's activity in becoming my LORD, and grace is God continuing His activity within me. He doesn't need me to allow Him.

#5. Jesus Christ was manifested to destroy the works of the devil both in Justification (on the cross) and in Sanctification (in a person's life).

'He was raised again for our justification'. So you are not strictly correct. And I am not sure what the works of the Devil has to do with it. We are accounted as righteous in spite of our own sinfulness and sins. It does, of course render the Devil powerless to touch me. But the works of the Devil that Christ was manifested to destroy have nothing to do with our justification. We are accounted as righteous while we are ungodly so that we can never again be called to account as to salvation. By being accounted as righteous we have been saved once for all. Nothing can touch our justification for it rests on Christ's righteousness and obedience, not ours.

In continual sanctification He certainly works to make us pure within as we advance from one degree of glory to another (2 Cor 3.18). And this hinders the Devil's work. But it does not destroy his works. He continues on his evil way.

You fail to mention our once for all sanctification (being made holy on God's sight). The Corinthians were weak and sinful, but Paul could still call them 'sanctified ones' (1 Cor 1.2). For Christ had been made unto them sanctification (1 Cor 1.30). That certainly did thwart the Devil.

A believer has the power of God working in them to stop sinning. For Paul says, sin shall not have dominion over you. Meaning, you will not be a slave to sin. For Jesus says he that sins is a slave to sin.

A text out of context is a pretext. Certainly as Christ works within us to crucify our old man and to renew us with resurrection life (Rom 6.3-11) we will gain victory over known sins. And that is because sin's dominion (unpreventable control) is broken. The sinful flesh is no longer our master. Christ is our Master. But we will still sin unwittingly, and even wittingly when our flesh rises up. However, because we are no longer a slave to sin we can overcome. Nowhere does Paul say that we will never sin. On the contrary he says that we will constantly have to gain victory over sin as we advance from one degree of glory to another.

 

[Budman]

I doubt very seriously that happened. How many Catholic hate tbreads are you people gonna make? I can take a hint!!!!! LATER

It indeed does happen - and not just in Catholic churches.

When we were children, my sister and I were once kicked out of a church we were visiting because our clothes were rather raggedy. (We were very poor).

We were told we could come back only if we dressed "appropriately."

 

[eternally-gratefull]

It indeed does happen - and not just in Catholic churches.

When we were children, my sister and I were once kicked out of a church we were visiting because our clothes were rather raggedy. (We were very poor).

We were told we could come back only if we dressed "appropriately."

sounds like a few baptist churches I attended growing up..lol

 

[Budman]

sounds like a few baptist churches I attended growing up..lol

It actually was a baptist church.

 

[Jason0047]

Dear Eternally-gratefull:

I see you mentioned Romans 7:24 as your defense of a sin and still be saved gospel. However, most people are confused when they read Romans 7:25, though. How so?

Well, the Good New Translation clears up the confusion on this one. For it says in:

Romans 7:25 GNT
​"Thanks be to God, who does this through our Lord Jesus Christ! This, then, is my condition: on my own I can serve God's law only with my mind, while my human nature serves the law of sin."

In other words, it is saying apart from Jesus Christ one serves the Law with their mind, and the law of sin with their human nature. It is only in Jesus Christ who shall deliver them. The Old Law is not something that applies to Christians. Romans 8:1 says there is no Condemnation who are in Christ Jesus who walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit. That is the solution. The solution is not thinking you can obey the law and your sinful nature at the same time (If that is what you believe). The solution is in Jesus Christ and walking after the Spirit and not walking after the flesh.

 

[Jason0047]

For there is no Condemnation to those in Christ Jesus who WALK not after the flesh but after the Spirit.

 

[valiant]

Dear Eternally-gratefull:

I see you mentioned Romans 7:24 as your defense of a sin and still be saved gospel. However, most people are confused when they read Romans 7:25, though. How so?

Well, the Good New Translation clears up the confusion on this one. For it says in:

Romans 7:25 GNT
​"Thanks be to God, who does this through our Lord Jesus Christ! This, then, is my condition: on my own I can serve God's law only with my mind, while my human nature serves the law of sin."

In other words, it is saying apart from Jesus Christ one serves the Law with their mind, and the law of sin with their human nature. It is only in Jesus Christ who shall deliver them. The Old Law is not something that applies to Christians. Romans 8:1 says there is no Condemnation who are in Christ Jesus who walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit. That is the solution. The solution is not thinking you can obey the law and your sinful nature at the same time (If that is what you believe). The solution is in Jesus Christ and walking after the Spirit and not walking after the flesh.

LOL if the Bible disagrees with me, move to another translation LOL we will always be able to find one that doesn't say what the Greek does.

what this verse really says is that whilst as Christians with our minds we serve the law of God, because of our flesh we are sometimes caused to sin.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

For there is no Condemnation to those in Christ Jesus who WALK not after the flesh but after the Spirit.

Yep.. Because those IN CHRIST (born of him) walk after the spirit, not the flesh.

Nice try (not to mention the last part of that is not origional text)

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Dear Eternally-gratefull:

I see you mentioned Romans 7:24 as your defense of a sin and still be saved gospel. However, most people are confused when they read Romans 7:25, though. How so?

Well, the Good New Translation clears up the confusion on this one. For it says in:

Romans 7:25 GNT
​"Thanks be to God, who does this through our Lord Jesus Christ! This, then, is my condition: on my own I can serve God's law only with my mind, while my human nature serves the law of sin."

In other words, it is saying apart from Jesus Christ one serves the Law with their mind, and the law of sin with their human nature. It is only in Jesus Christ who shall deliver them. The Old Law is not something that applies to Christians. Romans 8:1 says there is no Condemnation who are in Christ Jesus who walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit. That is the solution. The solution is not thinking you can obey the law and your sinful nature at the same time (If that is what you believe). The solution is in Jesus Christ and walking after the Spirit and not walking after the flesh.

Paul is stating a fact. When he allows his flesh to control his life, he falls. When he allows God to control his life. He does not fall.

He is speaking of a thing we all have to deal with on a daily basis.

When the crazy woman runs you off the road, how do you react, with love, or in the flesh.

When your boss singles you out for something you know you were not responsible. how do you act, in love or in the flesh.

A person not in Christ (never born again but still dead in sin) can not walk after the spirit. because they have not been given Gods love, Gods power and Gods strength to overcome walkng in the flesh. everything they do (even if it appears to be a righteous act) is done in the flesh, thus it is sin.

A person born of God has to learn to trust God in ALL areas of his life, this takes time, if it happened in a moment, God would not need to chasten his kids. for they would already be perfect.

You have a person one moment being Gods enemy, and totally sinful, to the next moment being perfect in all aspects of life. there is no such thing as sanctification in your gospel. it all occures at once, In your mind, God has not perfected those he is sanctifying, he will only perfect those who sanctify themselves.

That is a fantasy world my friend, And not reality. I hope and pray you one day see this, I am honest when I say this.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

LOL if the Bible disagrees with me, move to another translation LOL we will always be able to find one that doesn't say what the Greek does.

what is amazing, I bet the translation he used here does not have the last part of romans 8: 1, it has what I have written at the bottom of all my posts (only the King Jimmy has the extended version of verse 1)

 

[valiant]

For there is no Condemnation to those in Christ Jesus who WALK not after the flesh but after the Spirit.

here it is again. The new Bible written by JASON.

what does the real Bible say? 'For there is now no sentence passed on those who are in Christ Jesus. For the principle of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made us free from the principle of sin and death.'

Notice the difference? The Bible text doesn't make the second part a condition, it makes it an explanation. Big difference. Justified first then transformed by the Spirit.

 

[MikeHenderson]

Everyone here is missing the point. We do sin even though we have received Salvation. Everybody still sins.

Its not our sins that determine if we enter into Heaven or not. Its have we accepted Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior that determines if we enter into Heaven. When we accept Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior our names are written into the Book of Life.

God knows we will still sin. but God does not want us to practice sinning. He wants us to make an effort to stop sinning.

No one is sinless. The ONLY person who was without sin was Jesus Christ.

1 John 1:9
[SUP]9 [/SUP] If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

If we became sinless by receiving Salvation then why did God say ," If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."?

Does this verse not prove we will still sin even though we have received Salvation?

Does that mean we are still to sin willingly? NO!

We are to make every effort we can to stop sinning.

 

[JaumeJ]

I do believe the quote below from the International Standard Version says it quite well, no ambiguity.



Rom 8:2
For the Spirit's law of life in the Messiah Jesus has set me free from the Law of sin and death.


Rom 8:3
For what the Law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the flesh, God did. By sending his own Son in the form of humanity, he condemned sin by being incarnate,

It is very important to note that sin is condemned, not the law, though the was is too weak to justify any flesh.............think on that some.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I do believe the quote below from the International Standard Version says it quite well, no ambiguity.



Rom 8:2
For the Spirit's law of life in the Messiah Jesus has set me free from the Law of sin and death.


Rom 8:3
For what the Law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the flesh, God did. By sending his own Son in the form of humanity, he condemned sin by being incarnate,

It is very important to note that sin is condemned, not the law, though the was is too weak to justify any flesh.............think on that some.

Jesus condemned sin in the flesh. the context is right before what he means.

[SUP]3 [/SUP]For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh,

It does not mean he condemned sins of the flesh, it means he condemned sin while in the likeness of sinful flesh.

your right, the law can not justify anyone, thus it must condemn everyone.

if it condemns everyone, then how can anyone earn salvation, and once someone has salvation, how could they then lose something they could never earn to begin with.

because the law still condemns them every day of their lives.

 

[JaumeJ]

Be very careful after possting what you have here. You are guilty of lisstening to Jesus Christ, and unhappily, some are offended when another practices learning from the Master.

Thank you for this great truth. You have blessed the souls of many, edifying and not tearing down. Always be blessed in Jesus christ, amen.

Everyone here is missing the point. We do sin even though we have received Salvation. Everybody still sins.

Its not our sins that determine if we enter into Heaven or not. Its have we accepted Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior that determines if we enter into Heaven. When we accept Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior our names are written into the Book of Life.

God knows we will still sin. but God does not want us to practice sinning. He wants us to make an effort to stop sinning.

No one is sinless. The ONLY person who was without sin was Jesus Christ.

1 John 1:9
[SUP]9 [/SUP] If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

If we became sinless by receiving Salvation then why did God say ," If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."?

Does this verse not prove we will still sin even though we have received Salvation?

Does that mean we are still to sin willingly? NO!

We are to make every effort we can to stop sinning.

 

[Jason0047]

LOL if the Bible disagrees with me, move to another translation LOL we will always be able to find one that doesn't say what the Greek does. what this verse really says is that whilst as Christians with our minds we serve the law of God, because of our flesh we are sometimes caused to sin.

While I believe the King James is the divinely inspired preserved Word of God for our day, to suggest that it is uses Late Modern English vs. Early Modern English (1600's English) is just not the case. People spoke and written different back then. So to force a modern understanding always upon 1600's English is not a proper thing to do if one is truly interested in the truth. Anyways, both the KJV and this verse in the GNT say the same thing but they simply use words that are just slightly different.

 

[Jason0047]

here it is again. The new Bible written by JASON.

what does the real Bible say? 'For there is now no sentence passed on those who are in Christ Jesus. For the principle of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made us free from the principle of sin and death.'

Notice the difference? The Bible text doesn't make the second part a condition, it makes it an explanation. Big difference. Justified first then transformed by the Spirit.

No, Romans 8:1 would be a contradiction to Romans 7:25 if it said what you are proposing.

Romans 8:1 teaches that they that WALK.... WALK.... WALK.... after the Spirit and not after the flesh are not under the Condemnation. This would not make any sense to say something like this if the verse right before it said that you could sin in the flesh and then serve the Law of God in your mind as a born again believer. In Romans 7, Paul is speaking from his experience as a Jew before he was Christian. I mean, think about it. Do you really think that what you are proposing is going to slide with God?

Would it not reflect badly upon God if He let His people get away with evil?