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Adam4Eve

Active member
Nov 26, 2018
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#21
Who will follow the words of Jesus and give EVERYTHING away? Luke 18:22

Everything is given by God, and everything will be taken away by him. We came into this world with nothing and we will leave it the same way. Physically speaking. If we seek to own or hold onto anything God will eventually remove it anyways. Why fight him? Give to others what was freely given you. And do everything with love and kindness in the fear of the Lord.

This is why we need a church, to help others reach this goal.
Yes that's all well and good, but are Christians obligated to give financially to the church under the new covenant?
 

BenFTW

Senior Member
Oct 7, 2012
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#22
It's not a Dodge, it just recognising that you answered my question with an almost accusatory question: suggesting I'm asking only because I don't want to give.

It's not that I want to or don't want to.
What I want is irrelevant.

I'll make it simple (as if it could be any more simple):
Can you please tell me if, a set the new covenant, Christians are obligated to give some of their income to the church.
Just trying to get to the heart of the matter.

We are not obligated to give. Neither are we obligated to use our bodies as living sacrifices unto God, yet does the apostle Paul say we ought to, out of gratitude (its the least we can do). In like fashion, why would we withhold our money from giving to others and the Church, especially when we, as believers, know that it really isn't subtracting from us (in consideration of sowing and reaping)?

Here is the verse you're looking for, btw.

2 Corinthians 9:7 King James Version (KJV)
7 Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.

We aren't to give "of necessity", which means out of obligation or compulsion.
 

BenFTW

Senior Member
Oct 7, 2012
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#23
Yet also...

1 John 3:17 King James Version (KJV)
17 But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?
 

Adam4Eve

Active member
Nov 26, 2018
179
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#24
Yet also...

1 John 3:17 King James Version (KJV)
17 But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?
This thread isn't about being generous with skills or belongings or abilities, it specifically about obliged financial giving.

Are there any instructions God gives that is specific to that under the new covenant?
 

BenFTW

Senior Member
Oct 7, 2012
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#25
This thread isn't about being generous with skills or belongings or abilities, it specifically about obliged financial giving.

Are there any instructions God gives that is specific to that under the new covenant?
Read the previous post before the one you quoted.
 

WalkingTree

Active member
Jan 13, 2019
168
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#26
Yes that's all well and good, but are Christians obligated to give financially to the church under the new covenant?
Yes, when the church is understood as a body of individual believers. Give all you can to them, as long as possible. Pray that God blesses you to give to others.

And Yes, even when the church is understood as a 5013c entity. Because you give to Caesar what is his. If you willingly join and belong to such a church you should follow all the bylaws of said church. One should not place themselves as a rebel against the Word that says give to them what is required.

You joined, you participate as required or leave. Simple.
 

Adam4Eve

Active member
Nov 26, 2018
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#27
I don't feel that my first post could have been any clearer, but I'll try to be:


What this thread is NOT about:

- "I thinks it's good to contribute to the running costs of the Church you attend"
- "You should feel able to help other Christians if they are in a time of need"
- "You're QUESTIONING something? This must mean you have some kind of secret agenda!"
- "You should readily offer your services"


What this thread IS about:

- Obligated financial giving to the church in the new covenant.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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#28
I don't feel that my first post could have been any clearer, but I'll try to be:


What this thread is NOT about:

- "I thinks it's good to contribute to the running costs of the Church you attend"
- "You should feel able to help other Christians if they are in a time of need"
- "You're QUESTIONING something? This must mean you have some kind of secret agenda!"
- "You should readily offer your services"


What this thread IS about:

- Obligated financial giving to the church in the new covenant.
so...

i get from the OP the impression that you're looking for someone with a misguided opinion about so-called-tithing in the modern church, so you can tell them they're wrong?
 

BenFTW

Senior Member
Oct 7, 2012
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#29
I don't feel that my first post could have been any clearer, but I'll try to be:


What this thread is NOT about:

- "I thinks it's good to contribute to the running costs of the Church you attend"
- "You should feel able to help other Christians if they are in a time of need"
- "You're QUESTIONING something? This must mean you have some kind of secret agenda!"
- "You should readily offer your services"


What this thread IS about:

- Obligated financial giving to the church in the new covenant.
Which was answered in post #22 .
 

Adam4Eve

Active member
Nov 26, 2018
179
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#30
so...

i get from the OP the impression that you're looking for someone with a misguided opinion about so-called-tithing in the modern church, so you can tell them they're wrong?
Nope, I'm asking what the deal is with modern tithing.
Is it still a thing?
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
37,699
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#31
Nope, I'm asking what the deal is with modern tithing.
Is it still a thing?
oh yes. it definitely is. ubiquitously so, according to my personal survey of sermonaudio and the fellowships i've visited & been a part of here in my own area.
if you want to hear from someone who will defend it, i am not able to help tho :censored:
 

BenFTW

Senior Member
Oct 7, 2012
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#32
Nope, I'm asking what the deal is with modern tithing.
Is it still a thing?
Yes, its still a thing. At least, there are people that still tithe ("giving a tenth") of their earnings to honor God with their finances and reap the rewards of such giving (including supporting the spreading of the Gospel).

You clearly are opposed to tithing, but since we've established through scripture why people are not under compulsion to do so, why does it feel like you still have a bone to pick?
 

Adam4Eve

Active member
Nov 26, 2018
179
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#33
Yes, its still a thing. At least, there are people that still tithe ("giving a tenth") of their earnings to honor God with their finances and reap the rewards of such giving (including supporting the spreading of the Gospel).

You clearly are opposed to tithing, but since we've established through scripture why people are not under compulsion to do so, why does it feel like you still have a bone to pick?
Does asking questions make me for or against anything?

I'm not for or against anything than finding out the truth of God's word.

Yes, tithe means a tenth, but a tithe is compulsory.
Giving a tenth voluntarily is called donating.

Please do not leave room for terminological inexactitude.
 

BenFTW

Senior Member
Oct 7, 2012
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#34
oh yes. it definitely is. ubiquitously so, according to my personal survey of sermonaudio and the fellowships i've visited & been a part of here in my own area.
if you want to hear from someone who will defend it, i am not able to help tho :censored:
Should I mention that a tithe, giving a tenth, happened before the Law of Moses, and therefore is not subject to us not being under the Law, and therefore, could be argued that it is still in effect? Oh no, I wouldn't want to ruffle feathers.
 

Adam4Eve

Active member
Nov 26, 2018
179
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#35
oh yes. it definitely is. ubiquitously so, according to my personal survey of sermonaudio and the fellowships i've visited & been a part of here in my own area.
if you want to hear from someone who will defend it, i am not able to help tho :censored:
So you're saying that obligated giving is still valid under the new covenant, but you're not willing to explain why?
 

BenFTW

Senior Member
Oct 7, 2012
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#36
Does asking questions make me for or against anything?

I'm not for or against anything than finding out the truth of God's word.

Yes, tithe means a tenth, but a tithe is compulsory.
Giving a tenth voluntarily is called donating.

Please do not leave room for terminological inexactitude.
"What is the deal with modern tithing?" Yep, sounds unbiased.
 

Adam4Eve

Active member
Nov 26, 2018
179
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#37
Should I mention that a tithe, giving a tenth, happened before the Law of Moses, and therefore is not subject to us not being under the Law, and therefore, could be argued that it is still in effect? Oh no, I wouldn't want to ruffle feathers.
Ruffle whatever feathers you like.
I care about the truth, less about how people feel.

Please explain further.
You've said above that obligated giving is not in effect now, and you've stated that repeatedly.
But now you're saying if us?
 

Adam4Eve

Active member
Nov 26, 2018
179
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#39
No he is saying that tithing is still practiced.
Terminological inexactitude;
Giving a tenth voluntarily is donating, giving a tenth under obligation is tithing.

Please let him speak for himself.
I'm sure he is capable.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
37,699
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#40
any church service that includes the words 'now it's time to take our tithes and offerings..'
it may not be preached there openly as a requirement, but 'tithe' is a loaded word with a very specific meaning in scripture. any preacher you hear use that word, if they have any salt, probably knows all too well that it's a loaded word with a very specific meaning.

personally i think churches should not be using that word at all to refer to taking up & collecting gifts. it is wrong & deceptive use of the term, IMO. ((MOO?))

i'm not familiar enough with denominations to say much of it, but certain major groups in Christianity *probably* teach tithing with a justification rooted specifically as part of some kind of weird '
continuation of the covenants' theological stance. i'm thinking specifically of Presbyterians, because i recently visited a Bible-study at a Presbyterian church ((which turned out to be a catechism class, not really a study, but long story)) -- afterwards i did a lot of research into infant baptism, which led me into topics about various kinds of 'covenant' theology. even if i could do a fair job ((that's open to debate)) of describing how a certain theological clique comes to a justification of demanding tithes, i won't because personally i think the theology behind it has a lot of self-conflicting hooey involved and i don't care to spread it. but, that said, there you go, it does exist.

the LDS definitely *requires* tithes. their justification is probably pretty easy to look up but again, load of hooey i don't really care to verse myself in, and i wouldn't call them part of 'the Church' anyhow.