Do you know your scripture?

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A

Adam4Eve

Active member
#61
Nov 26, 2018
179
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#61
tourist said:
Regarding how the kingdom of God proceeds from conversation verses financial means, there is also as saying - talk is cheap.
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You're using a common saying out of context.

The point of the common saying "talk is cheap" is essentially 'action, not words'.
That is, anyone can talk but the 'proof is in the pudding'.

Putting irrelevant sayings aside, people who are not already a Christian go to church long haul not because of an advert in a newspaper or on the radio, but because of meeting and talking to people.

This is irrelevant anyway, see post #50.
 
tourist

tourist

Senior Member
#62
Mar 13, 2014
42,598
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Tennessee
#62
Adam4Eve said:
You're using a common saying out of context.

The point of the common saying "talk is cheap" is essentially 'action, not words'.
That is, anyone can talk but the 'proof is in the pudding'.

Putting irrelevant sayings aside, people who are not already a Christian go to church long haul not because of an advert in a newspaper or on the radio, but because of meeting and talking to people.

This is irrelevant anyway, see post #50.
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I believe that the saying is actually quite relevant and scripturally sound. If your brother or sister is hurting and you have the means to actually help but only offer a prayer then what have you actually accomplished in meeting their need? Of course, there are times that prayer is all that you really have to offer at the time but a lot of times even though people may neglect the needs of others they offer a prayer as a means to alleviate their guilt. Some people talk a good game but have nothing to back up what they are saying, in other words they don't 'walk the talk'. The best type of prayer is an answered prayer and that means that someone has to do the heavy lifting. If your not willing to play your part then God will appoint another to take your place. I stand by my remark.
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
#63
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,777
113
#63
BenFTW said:
Are you asking this so you don't have to give? I wouldn't say one is obligated to give, but to not do so, would be poor stewardship due to the principle of sowing and reaping.
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Looks like he does not want to give, so he's trying to find a way out by talking about not giving under the New Covenant. However that is TOTAL NONSENSE, and 1 Corinthians 16 and 2 Corinthians 8 will confirm that.
 
Lanolin

Lanolin

Well-known member
#64
Dec 15, 2018
23,460
7,188
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#64
If not want to give thats your loss as its more blessed to give than to receive.

Have you ever been so poor that you always received charity for everything even the basics. Well unless you been in that postion you wouldnt know what its like to go without and conversely how satisfying it is to give to those in need since you can make a real difference to peoples lives.

How about having absolutely no land as an inheritance so that you always renting from place to place never having a home of your own well the Levites never had that they depended on what people were willing to give and God had made it so a tenth of what they had was offered up for the Levites to live on. They couldnt have their own jobs they were supposed to serve the tabernacle. They had no land to grow any food at all.

I am just writing this to show you how God's economy worked back in the OT and what it was orignally meant to be. I know people have misused and abused His teaching on it. This is not about that. As we believers are now part of the priesthood...we depend soley on God not ourselves and our own abilities and God has us willing to give (and receive) if our hearts are open.
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#65
Jan 13, 2016
17,130
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#65
tourist said:
Not sure how many would go into the ministry for the money as some ministers don't even get paid or perhaps just a nominal sum at that. There are more lucrative jobs than ministers to consider. Financially, it doesn't make any sense at all.
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Ever see a mega church? They’re all over the states.
 
A

Adam4Eve

Active member
#67
Nov 26, 2018
179
42
28
#67
tourist said:
I believe that the saying is actually quite relevant and scripturally sound. If your brother or sister is hurting and you have the means to actually help but only offer a prayer then what have you actually accomplished in meeting their need? Of course, there are times that prayer is all that you really have to offer at the time but a lot of times even though people may neglect the needs of others they offer a prayer as a means to alleviate their guilt. Some people talk a good game but have nothing to back up what they are saying, in other words they don't 'walk the talk'. The best type of prayer is an answered prayer and that means that someone has to do the heavy lifting. If your not willing to play your part then God will appoint another to take your place. I stand by my remark.
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Yes but now you're talking about a totally different situation to the one you originally used the saying for - which was the point of the thread.
 
Subhumanoidal

Subhumanoidal

Well-known member
#68
Sep 17, 2018
4,061
3,175
113
#68
John146 said:
And there are many who go into the ministry seeking a paycheck, and become a hireling.
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Past studies say that makes up the majority of reasons given for seminary students wanting to be pastors. A steady paycheck.
 
Subhumanoidal

Subhumanoidal

Well-known member
#70
Sep 17, 2018
4,061
3,175
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#70
Adam4Eve said:
Sarcasm?
I genuinely didn't know that!
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Nope. No sarcasm. It's a sad fact.
It was a number of years ago, so I'm not sure if it has improved any but I find it unlikely.
 
P

pottersclay

Guest
#72
#72
I find it hard to believe that saints struggle with this issue. As if contributing financialy to further the kingdom of God should be written in stone or spoken by the Lord's own mouth as a commandment to motivate giving.
Let alone the next question...how much is enough?
To be scripture accurate you were born in this world naked.....your gonna leave the same way...... everything else belongs to the Lord.
So tell me what do you really contribute? That is your own?
Never seen a U Haul follow a hearse.
If I'm not mistakin the leader of the church Christ Jesus saw it necessary to give his all...are we commanded to follow his example?
Or does the 10 percent sound better now or what God lays on your heart.
A rich man is not measured wealthy by what he has but by what he can afford to give away.
Are you rich in Christ?......or are you on that tight budget.....are you trusting....or fussing.
 
A

Adam4Eve

Active member
#73
Nov 26, 2018
179
42
28
#73
pottersclay said:
I find it hard to believe that saints struggle with this issue. As if contributing financialy to further the kingdom of God should be written in stone or spoken by the Lord's own mouth as a commandment to motivate giving.
Let alone the next question...how much is enough?
To be scripture accurate you were born in this world naked.....your gonna leave the same way...... everything else belongs to the Lord.
So tell me what do you really contribute? That is your own?
Never seen a U Haul follow a hearse.
If I'm not mistakin the leader of the church Christ Jesus saw it necessary to give his all...are we commanded to follow his example?
Or does the 10 percent sound better now or what God lays on your heart.
A rich man is not measured wealthy by what he has but by what he can afford to give away.
Are you rich in Christ?......or are you on that tight budget.....are you trusting....or fussing.
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So you're still REQUIRED to give to your local Church, and nobody out there tries to take advantage of that?

Never mind the emotional appeals, just talk straight.

What does God want from us?

See post #50
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#74
Jul 31, 2013
37,844
13,558
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#74
tourist said:
Yes, but those ministers are relatively few compared to the thousands that work for little or no income.
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i checked a few job boards. they put average pastor salary at somewhere between 45k -55k / yr
of course these estimates are only based on what's reported by people who use the sites.

for sure though mega-churches may make up a large proportion of total-church-goers, but not total pastors. even though a single maxi-church may have a half dozen salaried pastors, there may be several hundred small churches in any given area for every one of these great big ones.
 
Lanolin

Lanolin

Well-known member
#75
Dec 15, 2018
23,460
7,188
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#75
You give yourself...you give your life just as Jesus gave his life for us...Jesus had so much to give us. . His disciples had no money to feed 5000 people he multiplied 5 loaves and 2 fishes. So even if you give that much the Lord will multiply it.
If you have nothing to give then thats fine but if you give up your lunch like that boy did you will be blessed. If you have two coats you give one to someone who has none.
If you dont have income you give your time...the tenth or tithe was just an easy thing for people to remember so if they had 100 sheep they would give 10 if they had 20 figs or whatever they would give 2 its just maths even Jesus asked this question about the miracles of loaves and fishes and the disciples couldnt figure it out they must have been mathematically challenged.
 
Lanolin

Lanolin

Well-known member
#76
Dec 15, 2018
23,460
7,188
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#76
Check out acts 4:32

They were of one heart and one soul.
Neither said of any of them that ought of the things he possessed was his own, but they had all things in common.

Keep reading further this story. They sold houses and land so nobody lacked anything. When you join with a church you share in everything do you not. No one person owns it. Distribution was to everyone that had need. So you might have wealthy members who give to poor members so that everyone is equal and you lack nothing.

This is how it ought to be. If this doesnt work in your local church and some members are rolling in money while otthers are starving something is wrong!
 
P

pottersclay

Guest
#77
#77
TITHING TO MELCHIZEDEK (HEB. 7:1–2)
For this Melchizedek, king of Salem, priest of the Most High God, met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings and blessed him, and to him Abraham apportioned a tenth part of everything. He is first, by translation of his name, king of righteousness, and then he is also king of Salem, that is, king of peace.​
With this discussion on Abraham’s tithe to Melchizedek, we’ve come full circle. Moses first tells us of this tithe in Genesis, and the author of Hebrews readdresses it as he compares Christ’s ministry to the priest Melchizedek.

The author of Hebrews argues that, although the tithe was supposed to be paid to the Levites, Abraham gave a tenth of his spoils to the priest Melchizedek. And that, through this act, the Levites also metaphorically tithed to Melchizedek. Not only did the priest take a tithe from Abraham, he blessed him. Hebrew’s author says, “It is beyond dispute that the inferior is blessed by the superior. (v. 7)” The whole chapter compares the priesthood of Christ to this mysterious Old Testament character.

It’s only appropriate that the last place the tithe is mentioned it’s being used to point to Christ’s preeminence.

SO WHAT’S THIS MEAN FOR US?
In the end, tithing wasn’t something Israel did in the same way we mindlessly toss a gratuity down with our bill at a restaurant. It was an intentional practice through which God intended to teach Israel about his sovereign ownership of everything. Instead of being consumers of their blessings, they had to stop and think through just how much blessing they had.

Through the tithe, God took care of his people—and through the act of generous giving, God continues to bless his people.
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#78
Jan 13, 2016
17,130
3,689
113
#78
pottersclay said:
TITHING TO MELCHIZEDEK (HEB. 7:1–2)
For this Melchizedek, king of Salem, priest of the Most High God, met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings and blessed him, and to him Abraham apportioned a tenth part of everything. He is first, by translation of his name, king of righteousness, and then he is also king of Salem, that is, king of peace.​
With this discussion on Abraham’s tithe to Melchizedek, we’ve come full circle. Moses first tells us of this tithe in Genesis, and the author of Hebrews readdresses it as he compares Christ’s ministry to the priest Melchizedek.

The author of Hebrews argues that, although the tithe was supposed to be paid to the Levites, Abraham gave a tenth of his spoils to the priest Melchizedek. And that, through this act, the Levites also metaphorically tithed to Melchizedek. Not only did the priest take a tithe from Abraham, he blessed him. Hebrew’s author says, “It is beyond dispute that the inferior is blessed by the superior. (v. 7)” The whole chapter compares the priesthood of Christ to this mysterious Old Testament character.

It’s only appropriate that the last place the tithe is mentioned it’s being used to point to Christ’s preeminence.

SO WHAT’S THIS MEAN FOR US?
In the end, tithing wasn’t something Israel did in the same way we mindlessly toss a gratuity down with our bill at a restaurant. It was an intentional practice through which God intended to teach Israel about his sovereign ownership of everything. Instead of being consumers of their blessings, they had to stop and think through just how much blessing they had.

Through the tithe, God took care of his people—and through the act of generous giving, God continues to bless his people.
Click to expand...
What do you mean by "bless his people"?
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#79
Jan 13, 2016
17,130
3,689
113
#79
Lanolin said:
Check out acts 4:32

They were of one heart and one soul.
Neither said of any of them that ought of the things he possessed was his own, but they had all things in common.

Keep reading further this story. They sold houses and land so nobody lacked anything. When you join with a church you share in everything do you not. No one person owns it. Distribution was to everyone that had need. So you might have wealthy members who give to poor members so that everyone is equal and you lack nothing.

This is how it ought to be. If this doesnt work in your local church and some members are rolling in money while otthers are starving something is wrong!
Click to expand...
And at the same time, if you don't work...you don't eat. Right?
 
P

pottersclay

Guest
#80
#80
D SOJOURNERS (DEUT. 14:28–29)
At the end of every three years you shall bring out all the tithe of your produce in the same year and lay it up within your towns. And the Levite, because he has no portion or inheritance with you, and the sojourner, the fatherless, and the widow, who are within your towns, shall come and eat and be filled, that the Lord your God may bless you in all the work of your hands that you do.​
The first tithe taken annually was used to support the Levites. Every third year a special tithe was taken for the distinct purpose of supporting orphans, widows, and strangers. Baked into God’s law was a special provision to take care of the most vulnerable citizens. Interestingly enough, this included caring for people from outside of their community.
 
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