The scriptures are in perfect harmony. People find contradictions when they fail to rightly divide the word of truth, when unenlightened, carnal reasoning is employed, and when passages are taken out of context. Also, that some passages are difficult to understand doesn’t mean they contradict. Where can spiritual insight be sought other than from the Spirit of God who searches the deep things of God and inspired the scripture? "Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual" (1 Corinthians 2:13).
Do you think the bible has contradictions?
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Ok
I am not trying to say I am right and you guys are wrong I cannot do that I do not know. I could be living a lie and could end up taking a terrible punishment for it.
But hey none of you know either. You could be living your lives according to a heap of propaganda written years ago. You could all be doing this for nothing.
NOBODY KNOWS FOR SURE NOBODY HAS CONCRETE PROOF NOBODY
Apart from the fact the churches are getting very rich nobody else is getting anything out of it.
We all make a choice in what we believe we all do what is comfortable for us what makes us feel good inside.
This is a debate that will never stop. Because people join groups that they like groups that have the same interests.
But then some of these groups turn fanatical and want everything done their way and all to believe and run their lives according to their beliefs. HITLER
If you want my total honest opinion I believe if allowed by the law Christians would kill unbelievers in Gods name then go into self-denial. You have seen it happen in your own time with the Muslims and their Allah.
I do not have to think they would. They have already done it just look at your history.
Instead of putting others down for their beliefs please dwell on the atrocities Christians have committed in the name of their God and you should all be on your knees begging forgiveness.
Not dictating to others about what you think they have done wrong PLEASE SAVE YOUR OWN SOULS LEAVE OURS ALONE
This is why people come in and have a go when there are topics that they do not agree with.
Because and I will put my cards on the table the propaganda is false till can be proved true.
If I have offended I am sorry but that is the way it is and that is the way it always will be till proven otherwise.
Please take care everybody and take this the way it was meant to be written AS IT IS
Hoot Owl
I am not trying to say I am right and you guys are wrong I cannot do that I do not know. I could be living a lie and could end up taking a terrible punishment for it.
But hey none of you know either. You could be living your lives according to a heap of propaganda written years ago. You could all be doing this for nothing.
NOBODY KNOWS FOR SURE NOBODY HAS CONCRETE PROOF NOBODY
Apart from the fact the churches are getting very rich nobody else is getting anything out of it.
We all make a choice in what we believe we all do what is comfortable for us what makes us feel good inside.
This is a debate that will never stop. Because people join groups that they like groups that have the same interests.
But then some of these groups turn fanatical and want everything done their way and all to believe and run their lives according to their beliefs. HITLER
If you want my total honest opinion I believe if allowed by the law Christians would kill unbelievers in Gods name then go into self-denial. You have seen it happen in your own time with the Muslims and their Allah.
I do not have to think they would. They have already done it just look at your history.
Instead of putting others down for their beliefs please dwell on the atrocities Christians have committed in the name of their God and you should all be on your knees begging forgiveness.
Not dictating to others about what you think they have done wrong PLEASE SAVE YOUR OWN SOULS LEAVE OURS ALONE
This is why people come in and have a go when there are topics that they do not agree with.
Because and I will put my cards on the table the propaganda is false till can be proved true.
If I have offended I am sorry but that is the way it is and that is the way it always will be till proven otherwise.
Please take care everybody and take this the way it was meant to be written AS IT IS
Hoot Owl
Hi demon
Exactly what historical evidence ?? Oh sorry you may have meant HYSTERICAL I again stand corrected.
If you look at my other post you will see I am not trying to take anything away from you.
Ok I come in to stir I know that and honestly a lot of you do leave yourselves wide open to it.
But a pile of rags that there is no proof of ? A few pieces of Junk wood found on a mountain top somewhere? Oh I forgot about the written proof. But written by whom is the question ?
TESTIMONY IS NOT FACT.
HootOwl
Exactly what historical evidence ?? Oh sorry you may have meant HYSTERICAL I again stand corrected.
If you look at my other post you will see I am not trying to take anything away from you.
Ok I come in to stir I know that and honestly a lot of you do leave yourselves wide open to it.
But a pile of rags that there is no proof of ? A few pieces of Junk wood found on a mountain top somewhere? Oh I forgot about the written proof. But written by whom is the question ?
TESTIMONY IS NOT FACT.
HootOwl
It sounds to me like what you are struggling with is not whether or not the Bible has contradictions in it but, whether or not the Bible is the Word of God. If it is not the Word of God, then it does not matter whether there are contradictions. It looks to me like what you are struggling with is how to believe in something you cannot see.
Hootowl said:
"I am not trying to say I am right and you guys are wrong I cannot do that I do not know. I could be living a lie and could end up taking a terrible punishment for it.
But hey none of you know either. You could be living your lives according to a heap of propaganda written years ago. You could all be doing this for nothing.
.....couple of thoughts regarding this.......
1) big difference is, we walk by Faith, you walk by unbelief
2) The logical question is: Let's say, for the sake of argument, that you are right and we are wrong.......ok. NO HARM, NO FOUL.......we chose to live a life according to a pretty good set of moral beliefs..........but then......WHAT IF WE ARE RIGHT?
(you is in some really, really deep dodo ain'tcha?)
Why choose unbelief when you can choose Faith? Don't see how that even comes close to "logical thinking," but, now, that may just be me.........
"I am not trying to say I am right and you guys are wrong I cannot do that I do not know. I could be living a lie and could end up taking a terrible punishment for it.
But hey none of you know either. You could be living your lives according to a heap of propaganda written years ago. You could all be doing this for nothing.
.....couple of thoughts regarding this.......
1) big difference is, we walk by Faith, you walk by unbelief
2) The logical question is: Let's say, for the sake of argument, that you are right and we are wrong.......ok. NO HARM, NO FOUL.......we chose to live a life according to a pretty good set of moral beliefs..........but then......WHAT IF WE ARE RIGHT?
(you is in some really, really deep dodo ain'tcha?)
Why choose unbelief when you can choose Faith? Don't see how that even comes close to "logical thinking," but, now, that may just be me.........
Hi Old Hermit
I will tell you why. It bothers me for the same reason Adultery Incest etc bothers you when done by others.
Then you write why is it a problem to me when Adam and Eve did it to start the world. The problem is why was it alright for Adam and Eve and not for anybody else.
What is wrong today should be wrong yesterday too. And again why was it left till so late to even mention someone called God. God was never heard of for ages. There are a lot more religions around a lot older than God.
Why was God not here at the start. He only raised his head when it was obvious how much money and control could be used to make money.
If anybody even mentions all the sins that have been committed in the bible itself, it is covered up with very lame excuses
Ever heard of "To thy self be true"
Hoot Owl
I will tell you why. It bothers me for the same reason Adultery Incest etc bothers you when done by others.
Then you write why is it a problem to me when Adam and Eve did it to start the world. The problem is why was it alright for Adam and Eve and not for anybody else.
What is wrong today should be wrong yesterday too. And again why was it left till so late to even mention someone called God. God was never heard of for ages. There are a lot more religions around a lot older than God.
Why was God not here at the start. He only raised his head when it was obvious how much money and control could be used to make money.
If anybody even mentions all the sins that have been committed in the bible itself, it is covered up with very lame excuses
Ever heard of "To thy self be true"
Hoot Owl
This is the same event. In one Scripture it says God (The LORD) told David to number the nation. And in another Scripture it says SATAN told david to count the nation... So who is it that told David to number the nation? God or Satan?... We know they will NEVER agree so it has to be only one, or is it both? Did they both have the same command? NOPE! God will Never tell David to do something that He will punish him for later.... or will He? So who was it, you think?
Here is the two Scriptures...
2Sa 24:1 And again the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go, number Israel and Judah.
AND....1Ch 21:1 And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel.
After David did this he was SORRY and God gave him a choice of three punishments, and he chose the cowardly one.... Other people died for the sin of David... Seventy thousand men.... WOW!
Here is the two Scriptures...
2Sa 24:1 And again the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go, number Israel and Judah.
AND....1Ch 21:1 And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel.
After David did this he was SORRY and God gave him a choice of three punishments, and he chose the cowardly one.... Other people died for the sin of David... Seventy thousand men.... WOW!
Hootowl said:
"Why was God not here at the start. He only raised his head when it was obvious how much money and control could be used to make money."
Uh, what PROOF do you have of this assertion? Oh, that's right, you don't. You are just here to "stir the pot."
God is not the author of confusion, but apparently you have no problem taking credit for it.............
anyway, it's always amusing to read your comments.........
(any idea how much "money" He used to make "money?")
"Why was God not here at the start. He only raised his head when it was obvious how much money and control could be used to make money."
Uh, what PROOF do you have of this assertion? Oh, that's right, you don't. You are just here to "stir the pot."
God is not the author of confusion, but apparently you have no problem taking credit for it.............
anyway, it's always amusing to read your comments.........
(any idea how much "money" He used to make "money?")
How could you not think that the bible contains contradictions? Has no one ever told you about any of them?
The Skeptics' Annotated Bible is a good source for this. It lists pretty much every contradiction ever found, from numbers that change from one story to another to blown prophecies to contradictions in major, important events. Seriously, if you go through it chapter by chapter you'll find that it's difficult to find a single chapter in the bible that doesn't contain a contradiction.
But maybe you don't like clicking links, or you feel that these are too numerous and disparate to answer. Let's just throw one out here to discuss. Both Matthew 28:8 and Luke 24:9 tell us that the women who saw Jesus after his death immediately went and told the disciples about it. According to Mark 16:8, they told no one. These events are clearly contradictory, as they are mutually exclusive -- they couldn't both tell and not tell the disciples, which is why it leads to different outcomes (in fact, all 4 gospels have entirely different stories about what happens after the resurrection, having nothing in common).
Maybe you think the bible is perfect no matter what the evidence states, but would you give a Muslim the same benefit of the doubt after showing him his own contradictory holy book? The same site also contains a "Skeptic's Qur'an" and a "Skeptic's Book of Mormon", but it's hard to use contradictions found in these other books without a realization of the double-standard you've imposed, using special pleading to exempt your own book from the rules.
The Skeptics' Annotated Bible is a good source for this. It lists pretty much every contradiction ever found, from numbers that change from one story to another to blown prophecies to contradictions in major, important events. Seriously, if you go through it chapter by chapter you'll find that it's difficult to find a single chapter in the bible that doesn't contain a contradiction.
But maybe you don't like clicking links, or you feel that these are too numerous and disparate to answer. Let's just throw one out here to discuss. Both Matthew 28:8 and Luke 24:9 tell us that the women who saw Jesus after his death immediately went and told the disciples about it. According to Mark 16:8, they told no one. These events are clearly contradictory, as they are mutually exclusive -- they couldn't both tell and not tell the disciples, which is why it leads to different outcomes (in fact, all 4 gospels have entirely different stories about what happens after the resurrection, having nothing in common).
Maybe you think the bible is perfect no matter what the evidence states, but would you give a Muslim the same benefit of the doubt after showing him his own contradictory holy book? The same site also contains a "Skeptic's Qur'an" and a "Skeptic's Book of Mormon", but it's hard to use contradictions found in these other books without a realization of the double-standard you've imposed, using special pleading to exempt your own book from the rules.
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QUOTE:
But maybe you don't like clicking links, or you feel that these are too numerous and disparate to answers. Let's just throw one out here to discuss. Both Matthew 28:8 and Luke 24:9 tell us that the women who saw Jesus after his death immediately went and told the disciples about it. According to Mark 16:8, they told no one. These events are clearly contradictory, as they are mutually exclusive -- they couldn't both tell and not tell the disciples, which is why it leads to different outcomes (in fact, all 4 gospels have entirely different stories about what happens after the resurrection, having nothing in common).
END QUOTE...........
I've seen these passages used before.............try reading, and reading again, with an eye to understand the differences in styles of writings, and you will see that there is not a contradiction........just saying......took me awhile too!
But maybe you don't like clicking links, or you feel that these are too numerous and disparate to answers. Let's just throw one out here to discuss. Both Matthew 28:8 and Luke 24:9 tell us that the women who saw Jesus after his death immediately went and told the disciples about it. According to Mark 16:8, they told no one. These events are clearly contradictory, as they are mutually exclusive -- they couldn't both tell and not tell the disciples, which is why it leads to different outcomes (in fact, all 4 gospels have entirely different stories about what happens after the resurrection, having nothing in common).
END QUOTE...........
I've seen these passages used before.............try reading, and reading again, with an eye to understand the differences in styles of writings, and you will see that there is not a contradiction........just saying......took me awhile too!
Hootowl, you make the same mistake MOST people make.... My dad also made this mistake until I asked him one question...
My dad, like you ASSUMe all "Christians" are Christians... BUT....
I asked my dad to Name one thing He dislikes about Jesus Christ. I said to my dad.... Dad whether Jesus was true or not, whatwould you have against a Man that lived the life Jesus lived?
So I ask you too now Hootowl, let us just say somewhere in history did live a man that lived the life Jesus lived here on earth as the Bible described? What would you have against such a man?
If you say flat out that there was no such man, what about John the Baptist then? Did He also not exist? If not him then what about Stephen? Or hey Paul of Tarsus... Even you agknoledge Adam, so what about Adam, BEFORE he sinned, what do you have against Adam as God had made him?
I would like to show you something that not even you can deny.... Go find a flower, and look at it... How beautiful a simple little thing as a flower can be... the vivid colours, and the perfect shape, and the life in that flower. Now with all your wisdom, create something with life. From SCRATCH! Use all you have to your disposal, and just make one living CELL! You do not have to recreate a whole flower, just one CELL of that flower, with your effort.
You cannot! So admit there is something bigger than you, something more clever that ALL people put together, and that something has to be GOD! Now whether HE was here on earth or not, He still has influence on it. If He made it, He is also the one that KEEPS it a living planet.... So there is something that should tickle your intelligence!
My dad, like you ASSUMe all "Christians" are Christians... BUT....
I asked my dad to Name one thing He dislikes about Jesus Christ. I said to my dad.... Dad whether Jesus was true or not, whatwould you have against a Man that lived the life Jesus lived?
So I ask you too now Hootowl, let us just say somewhere in history did live a man that lived the life Jesus lived here on earth as the Bible described? What would you have against such a man?
If you say flat out that there was no such man, what about John the Baptist then? Did He also not exist? If not him then what about Stephen? Or hey Paul of Tarsus... Even you agknoledge Adam, so what about Adam, BEFORE he sinned, what do you have against Adam as God had made him?
I would like to show you something that not even you can deny.... Go find a flower, and look at it... How beautiful a simple little thing as a flower can be... the vivid colours, and the perfect shape, and the life in that flower. Now with all your wisdom, create something with life. From SCRATCH! Use all you have to your disposal, and just make one living CELL! You do not have to recreate a whole flower, just one CELL of that flower, with your effort.
You cannot! So admit there is something bigger than you, something more clever that ALL people put together, and that something has to be GOD! Now whether HE was here on earth or not, He still has influence on it. If He made it, He is also the one that KEEPS it a living planet.... So there is something that should tickle your intelligence!
Hi rehbein
No you are right in what you say. You walk by faith. The point I am trying to make is if it is the wrong choice only you will suffer for it.
But it is not right to enforce that faith without giving proof to others they are going to argue back.
It stands like this. You are making a promise with only your belief on whether it will be kept or not.
TO ME it is not logical thinking. IT IS blind faith and trust thinking. I learned a long long time ago do not rely on that.
That P-rehbein is.... the difference between you and me " The Christians ability to believe in the unbelievable."
There are people who come in here to chat etc. YES I KNOW IT IS BIBLE FORUM and in the rest of the forums in here I have seen some may have problems. They have only to mention they are GAY or ATHIEST or even just a problem.
They are straight away met with cutting pasting and Christian thoughts of how they can change how God will not accept them. Go to God in prayer depending on the problem. Some come in for concrete help all that stuff is the last thing they are looking for.
The bible says Jesus walked in rags, how many of you walk in rags how many of you were born in a stable? If the bible is so right why are you guys not doing the same thing. Walk in his footsteps not sit telling everybody what jesus did and wants and not do it yourselves MOTHER TERESA DID.
So if jesus did it and you cannot then that is contradicting your belief in what your preaching straight away.
If someone tells you nurse me for the rest of my life I know you will be giving up 20yrs + but in the end in return I will leave you my property. No papers signed nothing you just trust.
The person passes on and everything is left to the church ( they can smell death and always ready to help one make out their will) You are cast out on the street. They will do it with sweet comforting words that the money is for the poor.
How would you feel. All those years you could have done something with your life things you would have loved to try. At the end NOTHING.
There is not one Christian in here not one who does not believe they will be rewarded.
If you think Christians are in this for nothing your deluding yourself.
I do not believe or expect anything from anybody or anything I wish for no reward. When I die cremate me and put me on the rubbish tip.
I have said before I will die as the animals and my soul will go where the animals souls go.
And till that day comes I will live my life as I wish beholden to nobody. I walk in the guidelines of Karma because I like the rules of Karma they are fair. But no Karma at the end so what . I am expecting nothing
At the end of the day I DID IT MY WAY
Hoot Owl
No you are right in what you say. You walk by faith. The point I am trying to make is if it is the wrong choice only you will suffer for it.
But it is not right to enforce that faith without giving proof to others they are going to argue back.
It stands like this. You are making a promise with only your belief on whether it will be kept or not.
TO ME it is not logical thinking. IT IS blind faith and trust thinking. I learned a long long time ago do not rely on that.
That P-rehbein is.... the difference between you and me " The Christians ability to believe in the unbelievable."
There are people who come in here to chat etc. YES I KNOW IT IS BIBLE FORUM and in the rest of the forums in here I have seen some may have problems. They have only to mention they are GAY or ATHIEST or even just a problem.
They are straight away met with cutting pasting and Christian thoughts of how they can change how God will not accept them. Go to God in prayer depending on the problem. Some come in for concrete help all that stuff is the last thing they are looking for.
The bible says Jesus walked in rags, how many of you walk in rags how many of you were born in a stable? If the bible is so right why are you guys not doing the same thing. Walk in his footsteps not sit telling everybody what jesus did and wants and not do it yourselves MOTHER TERESA DID.
So if jesus did it and you cannot then that is contradicting your belief in what your preaching straight away.
If someone tells you nurse me for the rest of my life I know you will be giving up 20yrs + but in the end in return I will leave you my property. No papers signed nothing you just trust.
The person passes on and everything is left to the church ( they can smell death and always ready to help one make out their will) You are cast out on the street. They will do it with sweet comforting words that the money is for the poor.
How would you feel. All those years you could have done something with your life things you would have loved to try. At the end NOTHING.
There is not one Christian in here not one who does not believe they will be rewarded.
If you think Christians are in this for nothing your deluding yourself.
I do not believe or expect anything from anybody or anything I wish for no reward. When I die cremate me and put me on the rubbish tip.
I have said before I will die as the animals and my soul will go where the animals souls go.
And till that day comes I will live my life as I wish beholden to nobody. I walk in the guidelines of Karma because I like the rules of Karma they are fair. But no Karma at the end so what . I am expecting nothing
At the end of the day I DID IT MY WAY
Hoot Owl
V
I surely hope so! Contradictions do not negate the validity of the bible. Think it was Bertrand Russell that once said something like, "In maths, a contradiction is the end of a line of thought and shows you have gone wrong but in philosophy a contradiction is the beginning. There is, thinks I, much value to be garnered from resolving such contradictions for oneself. Thus the bible teaches, it is not just a rule book but philosophically profound. All scripture is inspired and worthy of study but only Yeshua is in perfect communion with God, only his words are perfect
Cobus
Please if you have the time read my last post.
In our time one walked in the footsteps of Jesus " Mother Teresa" I have every respect for that lady and would never come against her. She lived what she preached.
I am sure your father would have had time for her too.
Your father nor I do not dislike Jesus Christ. Please have your belief. But what I at least am against is the total hypocrisy used to promote money making concerns with words of control and fear.
I do not acknowledge Adam in the same context you acknowledge him in I just use him because he is what the bible talks about.
The others you talk about John the Baptist. (I feel a little like him at times crying in the wilderness) lol.
Maybe I will end up with my head chopped off too. Well if they do hope they feed it to a starving animal at least it will be useful.
Adam sinned for eating the apple (Old Testament) God did not want us to know what was going on so it was forbidden.
If God did not want us to have this knowledge why? How can he give us freedom of choice if he did not want us to know what would happen as a consequence of that choice.
This merciful God was not slow in bringing down his punishment was he ? Oh silly me, he did not want us to know as much as him.
Stories from the bible not sure if true or not but every bit as good as " Hans Anderson"
Now your going into the realm of Scientology as to creation. 20 years ago you would have said a man could not walk on the moon. Only God could do that.
But scientists are doing great things they are talking about Cloning ( we will not enter into the problems that will cause)
They are making barren women have children. Admitted there is an egg involved.
But if God made Adam he would have done it with all the parts put inside him. So we will revert to " What came first "the chicken or the egg" ( Reminds me of Frankanstien) I wonder if old Franky put an egg in his monster too. Bears thinking about.
But then did God make Adam ? Could the Scientologists be right. Then we go back to what made the first seed.
So I do get what you mean. But if Scientists cannot work this out how on earth can we?
And we go right back again to the start of the whole debate NOBODY KNOWS FOR SURE
What you guys are not getting is I am not saying I am right and you are wrong. WHO ACTUALLY MADE THAT FIRST LIVING CELL you only have Testimony to say God did.
Nobody knows they can only guess at how the world began but they are acknowledging there could be life on other planets this also we are not sure of yet.
Too many things we cannot be sure of to honestly put all our beliefs in the one thing.
Hoot Owl
Please if you have the time read my last post.
In our time one walked in the footsteps of Jesus " Mother Teresa" I have every respect for that lady and would never come against her. She lived what she preached.
I am sure your father would have had time for her too.
Your father nor I do not dislike Jesus Christ. Please have your belief. But what I at least am against is the total hypocrisy used to promote money making concerns with words of control and fear.
I do not acknowledge Adam in the same context you acknowledge him in I just use him because he is what the bible talks about.
The others you talk about John the Baptist. (I feel a little like him at times crying in the wilderness) lol.
Maybe I will end up with my head chopped off too. Well if they do hope they feed it to a starving animal at least it will be useful.
Adam sinned for eating the apple (Old Testament) God did not want us to know what was going on so it was forbidden.
If God did not want us to have this knowledge why? How can he give us freedom of choice if he did not want us to know what would happen as a consequence of that choice.
This merciful God was not slow in bringing down his punishment was he ? Oh silly me, he did not want us to know as much as him.
Stories from the bible not sure if true or not but every bit as good as " Hans Anderson"
Now your going into the realm of Scientology as to creation. 20 years ago you would have said a man could not walk on the moon. Only God could do that.
But scientists are doing great things they are talking about Cloning ( we will not enter into the problems that will cause)
They are making barren women have children. Admitted there is an egg involved.
But if God made Adam he would have done it with all the parts put inside him. So we will revert to " What came first "the chicken or the egg" ( Reminds me of Frankanstien) I wonder if old Franky put an egg in his monster too. Bears thinking about.
But then did God make Adam ? Could the Scientologists be right. Then we go back to what made the first seed.
So I do get what you mean. But if Scientists cannot work this out how on earth can we?
And we go right back again to the start of the whole debate NOBODY KNOWS FOR SURE
What you guys are not getting is I am not saying I am right and you are wrong. WHO ACTUALLY MADE THAT FIRST LIVING CELL you only have Testimony to say God did.
Nobody knows they can only guess at how the world began but they are acknowledging there could be life on other planets this also we are not sure of yet.
Too many things we cannot be sure of to honestly put all our beliefs in the one thing.
Hoot Owl
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Voice oftheshires
I rest my case as you come in with Yeshua (name for God) an off shoot of the Jewish faith. Again saying only Yeshua is perfect lol.
I know you well. Not you personally but the followers. You possibly know me too by another name.
Anyway good to see you pop in. Used to enjoy my debates with you guys.
Hoot Owl
I rest my case as you come in with Yeshua (name for God) an off shoot of the Jewish faith. Again saying only Yeshua is perfect lol.
I know you well. Not you personally but the followers. You possibly know me too by another name.
Anyway good to see you pop in. Used to enjoy my debates with you guys.
Hoot Owl