Doctrine of Unconditional Election

[rogerg]

The faith of Christ is a shorthand way of defining the gospel Paul preach. It refers to the works of Christ where Paul contrasted the works of the law which Paul rejects. Paul is expressing the essence of the gospel. In what immediately follows, he refers to the act of the person who accepts the offer by believing.

That makes no sense to me. I doubt it is substantiated by the Bible and is of your own conjecture

Christ is the author of our faith.

[Heb 12:2 KJV] 2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of [our] faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
My interlinear has "of (in)". iow, the Greek word can be translated either way.

Yeah, well that would then read "by faith in Jesus Christ we have believed in Jesus Christ". So, based upon that, we would need to have faith in Christ to have faith in Christ? Logical impossibility.

Why don't you go to biblehub.com yourself and read all the English translations.

Never mind. I'll just show you several formal equivalent translations:

English Standard Version
yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified.
Berean Study Bible
know that a man is not justified by works of the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have believed in Christ Jesus, that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified.
Berean Literal Bible
nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by works of law, except through faith from Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith from Christ, and not by works of the Law, because by works of the Law not any flesh will be justified.
New American Standard Bible
nevertheless, knowing that a person is not justified by works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the Law; since by works of the Law no flesh will be justified.

You were applying the word to the wording of the KJV.

The point is: translators don't all agree. And half of the translations go one way and the other half go the other way.

Stalemate.

 

[fredoheaven]

That makes no sense to me. I doubt it is substantiated by the Bible and is of your own conjecture

Christ is the author of our faith.

[Heb 12:2 KJV] 2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of [our] faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

Umm, what we are trying to find out is the thing "faith of" and what does it mean. Of course, the bible is dependent in it context, supported by other scripture. So determined the meaning is really dependent on what the context and by the context of Galatians refer to Christ and his works, Paul says "faith came" and refer to Christ, not that Christ having faith or receive faith. In other instance, this "faith of" is also of the gospel as in Phil. 1:27 " striving together for the faith of the gospel". Does this mean, the gospel has faith? Blow up your mind if the gospel has faith. In essence, the faith of Christ refer to Christ works in which we are to believe. Your given passage in the Book of Hebrew in 12:2 refers to the faith of being our, that within the context describes the very works of Christ, enduring the cross, despising the shame and is now sitting in his throne. This makes Jesus the author and finisher of it. As appropriated this faith of Christ, his atoning work, we became saved.Faith is is the one that comes to God believing that he is. Hebrew 11:6.

 

[rogerg]

The point is: translators don't all agree. And half of the translations go one way and the other half go the other way.

The translators' interpretations while interesting, aren't critical as we can look to the source language ourselves.
The logic of the verse's two interpretations are very simple: it is either "in Christ" and "in Christ" or "of Christ" and "in Christ". The first would be illogical (due to what I have explained previously), and since the Bible is perfectly logical the second ("of Christ", "in Christ") has to be correct the correct one. I think it is as simple as that.

Consider this also. It informs that Jesus is the author and finisher of our faith. This substantiates the "of Christ", "in Christ" interpretation.

[Heb 12:2 KJV] 2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of [our] faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

 

[rogerg]

Umm, what we are trying to find out is the thing "faith of" and what does it mean.

Okay, well, I think we're pretty much exhausted this subject. To me the verse is clear and concise so there's isn't much more to say about it at this point.

 

[John146]

Not exactly sure what you're referring to but in Gal 3:16 and 1Pe 1:12 we are told that our belief is BY Christ's faith, not ours,

We are told we believe THAT we might be justified by the faith of Jesus Christ.

 

[rogerg]

We are told we believe THAT we might be justified by the faith of Jesus Christ.

We become justified because of the faith OF Christ

 

[John146]

We become justified because of the faith OF Christ

The verse actually says THAT we might be justified by the faith of Jesus Christ.

Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

 

[rogerg]

The verse actually says THAT we might be justified by the faith of Jesus Christ.

So, you're saying you agree that our belief in Jesus Christ is by the faith OF Christ? Yes or no?

 

[John146]

So, you're saying you agree that our belief in Jesus Christ is by the faith OF Christ? Yes or no?

Nope, I believe what the verse says. We believe in Jesus Christ THAT we might be justified by the faith of Christ. Faith without works in dead. Christ's faith was on display through his work on the cross. He is the only one who was righteous. His faith justifies the believer. One must believe to be justified by His faith. He is the Just and the justifier of them THAT BELIEVE.

 

[rogerg]

Nope, I believe what the verse says. We believe in Jesus Christ THAT we might be justified by the faith of Christ

Oh my! It DOESN'T SAY THAT, not even close! You can't make the first part go away because you happen not to like it.
This discussion is over

[Gal 2:16 KJV] 16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

 

[John146]

Oh my! It DOESN'T SAY THAT, not even close! You can't make the first part go away because you happen not to like it.
This discussion is over

[Gal 2:16 KJV] 16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

What part go away? Paul is answering the question why did we believe in Jesus Christ? THAT we might be justified by the faith of Christ.

The first part states that we are justified by the faith of Jesus Christ. Faith is one’s testimony. Faith is hearing the word of God and obeying. Faith without works is dead. The faith of Christ was on display in his life and death. He was completely obedient even unto the death of the cross.

 

[John146]

Oh my! It DOESN'T SAY THAT, not even close! You can't make the first part go away because you happen not to like it.
This discussion is over

I suggest you read this passage of Romans 3.

20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

 

[peldom10]

I guess it depends upon what you mean/consider by free will? How do you know someone's will is truly free before becoming saved
and not after?

Well....God gave us free will. I don't question His plan...do you?

 

[rogerg]

Well....God gave us free will. I don't question His plan...do you?

We're all born dead in sin - what free will would that be?

 

[rogerg]

What part go away? Paul is answering the question why did we believe in Jesus Christ? THAT we might be justified by the faith of Christ.

Are you Freegrace2 under a different member name?

 

[justpassinthrough]

Thats works salvation ! Conditioned upon what a person does. Far from Unconditional election of Grace which scripture teaches.

You reject what the scriptures say in favor of your own man made teaching.


And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him. Hebrews 5:9


No it’s actually biblically salvation as taught by Jesus Christ. Any other teaching is not from God.


He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.” John 3:36



Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son.
2 John 9





JPT

 

[justpassinthrough]

It is in scripture.

Still waiting for you to post it.

 

[justpassinthrough]

Gee whiz, JPT, this must be at least the 10th time we've been through this. In order to hear one must first be given spiritual ears that CAN hear. Without that happening, the Gospel would fall on deaf spiritual ears.
Regarding obeyance, (and as I have posted numerous times before), here is its explanation again. True obedience, which is obedience to the faith, can only be received as a gift from God

[Rom 1:5-6 KJV]
5 By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:
6 Among whom are ye also the called of Jesus Christ:

The Gospel is THE POWER OF GOD unto salvation.


For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek. Romans 1:16



Your false teaching says God saves people apart from hearing and believing the good news of Jesus Christ.


Your teaching a false man made gospel.


How can they believe in someone they have never heard of?



How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher? Romans 10:14






JPT

 

[FreeGrace2]

We're all born dead in sin - what free will would that be?

Obviously you have no idea what free will is.

So, I'll enlighten you on what it is.

It is the freedom to choose between options. In EVERY case, whether it is about choosing which politial candidate to vote for, or whether to believe or not believe the gospel message.

God created mankind with a conscience by which to recognize right from wrong. Calvinists seem not to understand that.