Doctrine of Unconditional Election
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Ephesians 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: 4According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: 5Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, 6To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
Ephesians1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
Romans 8:28. And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. 29For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
What you don't understand is Gods election. I will be posting part 2 very soon
Ephesians1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
Romans 8:28. And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. 29For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
What you don't understand is Gods election. I will be posting part 2 very soon
We are not talking about the new world.
we are talking about the world that exists today.
Does the promise God gave to abraham, through Isaac and Jacob, about the land of canaan, still exist today?
Is Israel being punished according to lev 26 today? I think we both agree, yes
Where we differ, is if Israel as a nation would repent (like the bible says they will) will god do what he said and remember the promise, remember the land?
I say yes, You say it is no longer valid.
So I have to state if I am a christian to keep this conversation going?
Get real man..
This conversation ceased to be worth it the moment you refused to discuss the three passages in Gen and Lev 26
don't blame me my friend..
we are talking about the world that exists today.
Does the promise God gave to abraham, through Isaac and Jacob, about the land of canaan, still exist today?
Is Israel being punished according to lev 26 today? I think we both agree, yes
Where we differ, is if Israel as a nation would repent (like the bible says they will) will god do what he said and remember the promise, remember the land?
I say yes, You say it is no longer valid.
So I have to state if I am a christian to keep this conversation going?
Get real man..
This conversation ceased to be worth it the moment you refused to discuss the three passages in Gen and Lev 26
don't blame me my friend..
Genises 1:1 from bible hub with Strong's Concordance translation
In the beginning
בְּרֵאשִׁ֖ית (bə·rê·šîṯ)
Preposition-b | Noun - feminine singular
Strong's Hebrew 7225: 1) first, beginning, best, chief 1a) beginning 1b) first 1c) chief 1d) choice part
God
אֱלֹהִ֑ים (’ĕ·lō·hîm)
Noun - masculine plural
Strong's Hebrew 430: 1) (plural) 1a) rulers, judges 1b) divine ones 1c) angels 1d) gods 2) (plural intensive-singular meaning) 2a) god, goddess 2b) godlike one 2c) works or special possessions of God 2d) the (true) God 2e) God
created
בָּרָ֣א (bā·rā)
Verb - Qal - Perfect - third person masculine singular
Strong's Hebrew 1254: 1) to create, shape, form 1a) (Qal) to shape, fashion, create (always with God as subject) 1a1) of heaven and earth 1a2) of individual man 1a3) of new conditions and circumstances 1a4) of transformations 1b) (Niphal) to be created 1b1) of heaven and earth 1b2) of birth 1b3) of something new 1b4) of miracles 1c) (Piel) 1c1) to cut down 1c2) to cut out 2) to be fat 2a) (Hiphil) to make yourselves fat
the heavens
הַשָּׁמַ֖יִם (haš·šā·ma·yim)
Article | Noun - masculine plural
Strong's Hebrew 8064: 1) heaven, heavens, sky 1a) visible heavens, sky 1a1) as abode of the stars 1a2) as the visible universe, the sky, atmosphere, etc 1b) Heaven (as the abode of God)
and
וְאֵ֥ת (wə·’êṯ)
Conjunctive waw | Direct object marker
Strong's Hebrew 853: 1) sign of the definite direct object, not translated in English but generally preceding and indicating the accusative
the earth.
הָאָֽרֶץ׃ (hā·’ā·reṣ)
Article | Noun - feminine singular
Strong's Hebrew 776: 1) land, earth 1a) earth 1a1) whole earth (as opposed to a part) 1a2) earth (as opposed to heaven) 1a3) earth (inhabitants) 1b) land 1b1) country, territory 1b2) district, region 1b3) tribal territory 1b4) piece of ground 1b5) land of Canaan, Israel 1b6) inhabitants of land 1b7) Sheol, land without return, (under) world 1b8) city (-state) 1c) ground, surface of the earth 1c1) ground 1c2) soil 1d) (in phrases) 1d1) people of the land 1d2) space or distance of country (in measurements of distance) 1d3) level or plain country 1d4) land of the living 1d5) end(s) of the earth 1e) (almost wholly late in usage) 1e1) lands, countries 1e1a) often in contrast to Canaan
In the beginning
בְּרֵאשִׁ֖ית (bə·rê·šîṯ)
Preposition-b | Noun - feminine singular
Strong's Hebrew 7225: 1) first, beginning, best, chief 1a) beginning 1b) first 1c) chief 1d) choice part
God
אֱלֹהִ֑ים (’ĕ·lō·hîm)
Noun - masculine plural
Strong's Hebrew 430: 1) (plural) 1a) rulers, judges 1b) divine ones 1c) angels 1d) gods 2) (plural intensive-singular meaning) 2a) god, goddess 2b) godlike one 2c) works or special possessions of God 2d) the (true) God 2e) God
created
בָּרָ֣א (bā·rā)
Verb - Qal - Perfect - third person masculine singular
Strong's Hebrew 1254: 1) to create, shape, form 1a) (Qal) to shape, fashion, create (always with God as subject) 1a1) of heaven and earth 1a2) of individual man 1a3) of new conditions and circumstances 1a4) of transformations 1b) (Niphal) to be created 1b1) of heaven and earth 1b2) of birth 1b3) of something new 1b4) of miracles 1c) (Piel) 1c1) to cut down 1c2) to cut out 2) to be fat 2a) (Hiphil) to make yourselves fat
the heavens
הַשָּׁמַ֖יִם (haš·šā·ma·yim)
Article | Noun - masculine plural
Strong's Hebrew 8064: 1) heaven, heavens, sky 1a) visible heavens, sky 1a1) as abode of the stars 1a2) as the visible universe, the sky, atmosphere, etc 1b) Heaven (as the abode of God)
and
וְאֵ֥ת (wə·’êṯ)
Conjunctive waw | Direct object marker
Strong's Hebrew 853: 1) sign of the definite direct object, not translated in English but generally preceding and indicating the accusative
the earth.
הָאָֽרֶץ׃ (hā·’ā·reṣ)
Article | Noun - feminine singular
Strong's Hebrew 776: 1) land, earth 1a) earth 1a1) whole earth (as opposed to a part) 1a2) earth (as opposed to heaven) 1a3) earth (inhabitants) 1b) land 1b1) country, territory 1b2) district, region 1b3) tribal territory 1b4) piece of ground 1b5) land of Canaan, Israel 1b6) inhabitants of land 1b7) Sheol, land without return, (under) world 1b8) city (-state) 1c) ground, surface of the earth 1c1) ground 1c2) soil 1d) (in phrases) 1d1) people of the land 1d2) space or distance of country (in measurements of distance) 1d3) level or plain country 1d4) land of the living 1d5) end(s) of the earth 1e) (almost wholly late in usage) 1e1) lands, countries 1e1a) often in contrast to Canaan
Strong's Lexicon
Now the earth
וְהָאָ֗רֶץ (wə·hā·’ā·reṣ)
Conjunctive waw, Article | Noun - feminine singular
Strong's Hebrew 776: 1) land, earth 1a) earth 1a1) whole earth (as opposed to a part) 1a2) earth (as opposed to heaven) 1a3) earth (inhabitants) 1b) land 1b1) country, territory 1b2) district, region 1b3) tribal territory 1b4) piece of ground 1b5) land of Canaan, Israel 1b6) inhabitants of land 1b7) Sheol, land without return, (under) world 1b8) city (-state) 1c) ground, surface of the earth 1c1) ground 1c2) soil 1d) (in phrases) 1d1) people of the land 1d2) space or distance of country (in measurements of distance) 1d3) level or plain country 1d4) land of the living 1d5) end(s) of the earth 1e) (almost wholly late in usage) 1e1) lands, countries 1e1a) often in contrast to Canaan
was
הָיְתָ֥ה (hā·yə·ṯāh)
Verb - Qal - Perfect - third person feminine singular
Strong's Hebrew 1961: 1) to be, become, come to pass, exist, happen, fall out 1a) (Qal) 1a1) ----- 1a1a) to happen, fall out, occur, take place, come about, come to pass 1a1b) to come about, come to pass 1a2) to come into being, become 1a2a) to arise, appear, come 1a2b) to become 1a2b1) to become 1a2b2) to become like 1a2b3) to be instituted, be established 1a3) to be 1a3a) to exist, be in existence 1a3b) to abide, remain, continue (with word of place or time) 1a3c) to stand, lie, be in, be at, be situated (with word of locality) 1a3d) to accompany, be with 1b) (Niphal) 1b1) to occur, come to pass, be done, be brought about 1b2) to be done, be finished, be gone
formless
תֹ֙הוּ֙ (ṯō·hū)
Noun - masculine singular
Strong's Hebrew 8414: 1) formlessness, confusion, unreality, emptiness 1a) formlessness (of primeval earth) 1a1) nothingness, empty space 1b) that which is empty or unreal (of idols) (fig) 1c) wasteland, wilderness (of solitary places) 1d) place of chaos 1e) vanity
and void,
וָבֹ֔הוּ (wā·ḇō·hū)
Conjunctive waw | Noun - masculine singular
Strong's Hebrew 922: 1) emptiness, void, waste
and darkness
וְחֹ֖שֶׁךְ (wə·ḥō·šeḵ)
Conjunctive waw | Noun - masculine singular
Strong's Hebrew 2822: 1) darkness, obscurity 1a) darkness 1b) secret place
was over
עַל־ (‘al-)
Preposition
Strong's Hebrew 5921: prep 1) upon, on the ground of, according to, on account of, on behalf of, concerning, beside, in addition to, together with, beyond, above, over, by, on to, towards, to, against 1a) upon, on the ground of, on the basis of, on account of, because of, therefore, on behalf of, for the sake of, for, with, in spite of, notwithstanding, concerning, in the matter of, as regards 1b) above, beyond, over (of excess) 1c) above, over (of elevation or pre-eminence) 1d) upon, to, over to, unto, in addition to, together with, with (of addition) 1e) over (of suspension or extension) 1f) by, adjoining, next, at, over, around (of contiguity or proximity) 1g) down upon, upon, on, from, up upon, up to, towards, over towards, to, against (with verbs of motion) 1h) to (as a dative) conj 2) because that, because, notwithstanding, although
the surface
פְּנֵ֣י (pə·nê)
Noun - common plural construct
Strong's Hebrew 6440: 1) face 1a) face, faces 1b) presence, person 1c) face (of seraphim or cherubim) 1d) face (of animals) 1e) face, surface (of ground) 1f) as adv of loc/temp 1f1) before and behind, toward, in front of, forward, formerly, from beforetime, before 1g) with prep 1g1) in front of, before, to the front of, in the presence of, in the face of, at the face or front of, from the presence of, from before, from before the face of
of the deep.
תְה֑וֹם (ṯə·hō·wm)
Noun - common singular
Strong's Hebrew 8415: 1) deep, depths, deep places, abyss, the deep, sea 1a) deep (of subterranean waters) 1b) deep, sea, abysses (of sea) 1c) primeval ocean, deep 1d) deep, depth (of river) 1e) abyss, the grave
And the Spirit
וְר֣וּחַ (wə·rū·aḥ)
Conjunctive waw | Noun - common singular construct
Strong's Hebrew 7307: 1) wind, breath, mind, spirit 1a) breath 1b) wind 1b1) of heaven 1b2) quarter (of wind), side 1b3) breath of air 1b4) air, gas 1b5) vain, empty thing 1c) spirit (as that which breathes quickly in animation or agitation) 1c1) spirit, animation, vivacity, vigour 1c2) courage 1c3) temper, anger 1c4) impatience, patience 1c5) spirit, disposition (as troubled, bitter, discontented) 1c6) disposition (of various kinds), unaccountable or uncontrollable impulse 1c7) prophetic spirit 1d) spirit (of the living, breathing being in man and animals) 1d1) as gift, preserved by God, God's spirit, departing at death, disembodied being 1e) spirit (as seat of emotion) 1e1) desire 1e2) sorrow, trouble 1f) spirit 1f1) as seat or organ of mental acts 1f2) rarely of the will 1f3) as seat especially of moral character 1g) Spirit of God, the third person of the triune God, the Holy Spirit, coequal, coeternal with the Father and the Son 1g1) as inspiring ecstatic state of prophecy 1g2) as impelling prophet to utter instruction or warning 1g3) imparting warlike energy and executive and administrative power 1g4) as endowing men with various gifts 1g5) as energy of life 1g6) as manifest in the Shekinah glory 1g7) never referred to as a depersonalised force
of God
אֱלֹהִ֔ים (’ĕ·lō·hîm)
Noun - masculine plural
Strong's Hebrew 430: 1) (plural) 1a) rulers, judges 1b) divine ones 1c) angels 1d) gods 2) (plural intensive-singular meaning) 2a) god, goddess 2b) godlike one 2c) works or special possessions of God 2d) the (true) God 2e) God
was hovering
מְרַחֶ֖פֶת (mə·ra·ḥe·p̄eṯ)
Verb - Piel - Participle - feminine singular
Strong's Hebrew 7363: 1) (Qal) to grow soft, relax 2) (Piel) to hover
over
עַל־ (‘al-)
Preposition
Strong's Hebrew 5921: prep 1) upon, on the ground of, according to, on account of, on behalf of, concerning, beside, in addition to, together with, beyond, above, over, by, on to, towards, to, against 1a) upon, on the ground of, on the basis of, on account of, because of, therefore, on behalf of, for the sake of, for, with, in spite of, notwithstanding, concerning, in the matter of, as regards 1b) above, beyond, over (of excess) 1c) above, over (of elevation or pre-eminence) 1d) upon, to, over to, unto, in addition to, together with, with (of addition) 1e) over (of suspension or extension) 1f) by, adjoining, next, at, over, around (of contiguity or proximity) 1g) down upon, upon, on, from, up upon, up to, towards, over towards, to, against (with verbs of motion) 1h) to (as a dative) conj 2) because that, because, notwithstanding, although
the surface
פְּנֵ֥י (pə·nê)
Noun - common plural construct
Strong's Hebrew 6440: 1) face 1a) face, faces 1b) presence, person 1c) face (of seraphim or cherubim) 1d) face (of animals) 1e) face, surface (of ground) 1f) as adv of loc/temp 1f1) before and behind, toward, in front of, forward, formerly, from beforetime, before 1g) with prep 1g1) in front of, before, to the front of, in the presence of, in the face of, at the face or front of, from the presence of, from before, from before the face of
of the waters.
הַמָּֽיִם׃ (ham·mā·yim)
Article | Noun - masculine plural
Strong's Hebrew 4325: 1) water, waters 1a) water 1b) water of the feet, urine 1c) of danger, violence, transitory things, refreshment (fig.)
Now the earth
וְהָאָ֗רֶץ (wə·hā·’ā·reṣ)
Conjunctive waw, Article | Noun - feminine singular
Strong's Hebrew 776: 1) land, earth 1a) earth 1a1) whole earth (as opposed to a part) 1a2) earth (as opposed to heaven) 1a3) earth (inhabitants) 1b) land 1b1) country, territory 1b2) district, region 1b3) tribal territory 1b4) piece of ground 1b5) land of Canaan, Israel 1b6) inhabitants of land 1b7) Sheol, land without return, (under) world 1b8) city (-state) 1c) ground, surface of the earth 1c1) ground 1c2) soil 1d) (in phrases) 1d1) people of the land 1d2) space or distance of country (in measurements of distance) 1d3) level or plain country 1d4) land of the living 1d5) end(s) of the earth 1e) (almost wholly late in usage) 1e1) lands, countries 1e1a) often in contrast to Canaan
was
הָיְתָ֥ה (hā·yə·ṯāh)
Verb - Qal - Perfect - third person feminine singular
Strong's Hebrew 1961: 1) to be, become, come to pass, exist, happen, fall out 1a) (Qal) 1a1) ----- 1a1a) to happen, fall out, occur, take place, come about, come to pass 1a1b) to come about, come to pass 1a2) to come into being, become 1a2a) to arise, appear, come 1a2b) to become 1a2b1) to become 1a2b2) to become like 1a2b3) to be instituted, be established 1a3) to be 1a3a) to exist, be in existence 1a3b) to abide, remain, continue (with word of place or time) 1a3c) to stand, lie, be in, be at, be situated (with word of locality) 1a3d) to accompany, be with 1b) (Niphal) 1b1) to occur, come to pass, be done, be brought about 1b2) to be done, be finished, be gone
formless
תֹ֙הוּ֙ (ṯō·hū)
Noun - masculine singular
Strong's Hebrew 8414: 1) formlessness, confusion, unreality, emptiness 1a) formlessness (of primeval earth) 1a1) nothingness, empty space 1b) that which is empty or unreal (of idols) (fig) 1c) wasteland, wilderness (of solitary places) 1d) place of chaos 1e) vanity
and void,
וָבֹ֔הוּ (wā·ḇō·hū)
Conjunctive waw | Noun - masculine singular
Strong's Hebrew 922: 1) emptiness, void, waste
and darkness
וְחֹ֖שֶׁךְ (wə·ḥō·šeḵ)
Conjunctive waw | Noun - masculine singular
Strong's Hebrew 2822: 1) darkness, obscurity 1a) darkness 1b) secret place
was over
עַל־ (‘al-)
Preposition
Strong's Hebrew 5921: prep 1) upon, on the ground of, according to, on account of, on behalf of, concerning, beside, in addition to, together with, beyond, above, over, by, on to, towards, to, against 1a) upon, on the ground of, on the basis of, on account of, because of, therefore, on behalf of, for the sake of, for, with, in spite of, notwithstanding, concerning, in the matter of, as regards 1b) above, beyond, over (of excess) 1c) above, over (of elevation or pre-eminence) 1d) upon, to, over to, unto, in addition to, together with, with (of addition) 1e) over (of suspension or extension) 1f) by, adjoining, next, at, over, around (of contiguity or proximity) 1g) down upon, upon, on, from, up upon, up to, towards, over towards, to, against (with verbs of motion) 1h) to (as a dative) conj 2) because that, because, notwithstanding, although
the surface
פְּנֵ֣י (pə·nê)
Noun - common plural construct
Strong's Hebrew 6440: 1) face 1a) face, faces 1b) presence, person 1c) face (of seraphim or cherubim) 1d) face (of animals) 1e) face, surface (of ground) 1f) as adv of loc/temp 1f1) before and behind, toward, in front of, forward, formerly, from beforetime, before 1g) with prep 1g1) in front of, before, to the front of, in the presence of, in the face of, at the face or front of, from the presence of, from before, from before the face of
of the deep.
תְה֑וֹם (ṯə·hō·wm)
Noun - common singular
Strong's Hebrew 8415: 1) deep, depths, deep places, abyss, the deep, sea 1a) deep (of subterranean waters) 1b) deep, sea, abysses (of sea) 1c) primeval ocean, deep 1d) deep, depth (of river) 1e) abyss, the grave
And the Spirit
וְר֣וּחַ (wə·rū·aḥ)
Conjunctive waw | Noun - common singular construct
Strong's Hebrew 7307: 1) wind, breath, mind, spirit 1a) breath 1b) wind 1b1) of heaven 1b2) quarter (of wind), side 1b3) breath of air 1b4) air, gas 1b5) vain, empty thing 1c) spirit (as that which breathes quickly in animation or agitation) 1c1) spirit, animation, vivacity, vigour 1c2) courage 1c3) temper, anger 1c4) impatience, patience 1c5) spirit, disposition (as troubled, bitter, discontented) 1c6) disposition (of various kinds), unaccountable or uncontrollable impulse 1c7) prophetic spirit 1d) spirit (of the living, breathing being in man and animals) 1d1) as gift, preserved by God, God's spirit, departing at death, disembodied being 1e) spirit (as seat of emotion) 1e1) desire 1e2) sorrow, trouble 1f) spirit 1f1) as seat or organ of mental acts 1f2) rarely of the will 1f3) as seat especially of moral character 1g) Spirit of God, the third person of the triune God, the Holy Spirit, coequal, coeternal with the Father and the Son 1g1) as inspiring ecstatic state of prophecy 1g2) as impelling prophet to utter instruction or warning 1g3) imparting warlike energy and executive and administrative power 1g4) as endowing men with various gifts 1g5) as energy of life 1g6) as manifest in the Shekinah glory 1g7) never referred to as a depersonalised force
of God
אֱלֹהִ֔ים (’ĕ·lō·hîm)
Noun - masculine plural
Strong's Hebrew 430: 1) (plural) 1a) rulers, judges 1b) divine ones 1c) angels 1d) gods 2) (plural intensive-singular meaning) 2a) god, goddess 2b) godlike one 2c) works or special possessions of God 2d) the (true) God 2e) God
was hovering
מְרַחֶ֖פֶת (mə·ra·ḥe·p̄eṯ)
Verb - Piel - Participle - feminine singular
Strong's Hebrew 7363: 1) (Qal) to grow soft, relax 2) (Piel) to hover
over
עַל־ (‘al-)
Preposition
Strong's Hebrew 5921: prep 1) upon, on the ground of, according to, on account of, on behalf of, concerning, beside, in addition to, together with, beyond, above, over, by, on to, towards, to, against 1a) upon, on the ground of, on the basis of, on account of, because of, therefore, on behalf of, for the sake of, for, with, in spite of, notwithstanding, concerning, in the matter of, as regards 1b) above, beyond, over (of excess) 1c) above, over (of elevation or pre-eminence) 1d) upon, to, over to, unto, in addition to, together with, with (of addition) 1e) over (of suspension or extension) 1f) by, adjoining, next, at, over, around (of contiguity or proximity) 1g) down upon, upon, on, from, up upon, up to, towards, over towards, to, against (with verbs of motion) 1h) to (as a dative) conj 2) because that, because, notwithstanding, although
the surface
פְּנֵ֥י (pə·nê)
Noun - common plural construct
Strong's Hebrew 6440: 1) face 1a) face, faces 1b) presence, person 1c) face (of seraphim or cherubim) 1d) face (of animals) 1e) face, surface (of ground) 1f) as adv of loc/temp 1f1) before and behind, toward, in front of, forward, formerly, from beforetime, before 1g) with prep 1g1) in front of, before, to the front of, in the presence of, in the face of, at the face or front of, from the presence of, from before, from before the face of
of the waters.
הַמָּֽיִם׃ (ham·mā·yim)
Article | Noun - masculine plural
Strong's Hebrew 4325: 1) water, waters 1a) water 1b) water of the feet, urine 1c) of danger, violence, transitory things, refreshment (fig.)
In closing all of this you must understand that in the Hebrew manuscripts there is no word for became. Stop and think when or where did Vere create anything formless, void, and without purpose.
Do you still thank me not a christian?
To post 3034 Do you call yourself a christian? I thought since I hit the reply button I was thanking I was replying back to the person who wrote it if not I am sorry if I have offended you or done something wrong was not what I was trying to do.
I never meant to offend or upset someone.
Do you still thank me not a christian?
To post 3034 Do you call yourself a christian? I thought since I hit the reply button I was thanking I was replying back to the person who wrote it if not I am sorry if I have offended you or done something wrong was not what I was trying to do.
I never meant to offend or upset someone.
Maybe you are talking about the world that exists today, but the discussion began regarding disagreement of the blessings God intended for Israel.
The promise God gave about Canaan was never intended to be realized in the physical world. Instead, the promise that God gave was of a spiritual Canaan which promise will continue forever, just as spiritual Jerusalem, and Israel (and others) are of things spiritual and eternal, not physical.
Have you never read the below from scripture? Spiritual Israel -- those elected to salvation from the foundation of the world-- have become the true Israel spiritually speaking. No longer is it the nation of Israel. The first covenant has ended and been done away in Christ. ALL of the eternal promises of blessings from the beginning made by God have been satisfied through Christ's offering, and therefore, pertain to the world to come.
[Heb 8:13 KJV] 13 In that he saith, A new [covenant], he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old [is] ready to vanish away.
[2Co 1:20 - 20 KJV]
19 For the Son of God, Jesus Christ, who was preached among you by us, [even] by me and Silvanus and Timotheus, was not yea and nay, but in him was yea.
20 For all the promises of God in him [are] yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us.
And when you say that you believe the nation of Israel will repent, what exactly do you mean? How would that be
achieved? Are you saying that every Jew alive would become saved? And even if that could happen, what about the Jews
who lived before then, would they be covered by that too since all would be of the nation of Israel, or wouldn't they count? That perspective just doesn't make sense to me. If it is to be because of the nation of Israel, then it must cover all who were ever the citizens of the nation of Israel past, present future.
Regarding whether it matters as to whether or not you are a Christian, if you're not, then the conversation would have to
move backwards to a more fundamental level to establish and agree upon basic truths, otherwise, we would talk past each
other. So, are you?
The promise God gave about Canaan was never intended to be realized in the physical world. Instead, the promise that God gave was of a spiritual Canaan which promise will continue forever, just as spiritual Jerusalem, and Israel (and others) are of things spiritual and eternal, not physical.
Have you never read the below from scripture? Spiritual Israel -- those elected to salvation from the foundation of the world-- have become the true Israel spiritually speaking. No longer is it the nation of Israel. The first covenant has ended and been done away in Christ. ALL of the eternal promises of blessings from the beginning made by God have been satisfied through Christ's offering, and therefore, pertain to the world to come.
[Heb 8:13 KJV] 13 In that he saith, A new [covenant], he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old [is] ready to vanish away.
[2Co 1:20 - 20 KJV]
19 For the Son of God, Jesus Christ, who was preached among you by us, [even] by me and Silvanus and Timotheus, was not yea and nay, but in him was yea.
20 For all the promises of God in him [are] yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us.
And when you say that you believe the nation of Israel will repent, what exactly do you mean? How would that be
achieved? Are you saying that every Jew alive would become saved? And even if that could happen, what about the Jews
who lived before then, would they be covered by that too since all would be of the nation of Israel, or wouldn't they count? That perspective just doesn't make sense to me. If it is to be because of the nation of Israel, then it must cover all who were ever the citizens of the nation of Israel past, present future.
Regarding whether it matters as to whether or not you are a Christian, if you're not, then the conversation would have to
move backwards to a more fundamental level to establish and agree upon basic truths, otherwise, we would talk past each
other. So, are you?
FreeGrace2 said:
Awelight, it seems you are unhappy with post #3040. Is it all the verses that prove election isn't about salvation but about service, or something else?
If you believe that God's election is to salvation, please quote a verse that makes that clear. Thank you.
OK, from this reponse, it appears you don't actually read posts before responding. So I'll take you through it.
You marked my post 3040 with an unhappy face. So I asked you WHY you were unhappy with it.
All the verses I shared prove that election is to service, and not to salvation. Is that what bothers you?
Then I challenged you to quote a verse that clearly shows that election is to salvation.
But you respond with such a silly question: why would you want such Scripture? What Christian wouldn't want to see the truth?
Then you make the bold but factless claim that I don't believe "in what Scripture clearly teaches".
Do you see the irony here? I asked for such a verse and you just blow it off and tell me what I don't believe what the Bible "clearly teaches".
That is what so many Calvinists do when they are cornered and know it. You know good and well that there are NO such verses that show election is to salvation. So you blow smoke.
How can I believe a claim when NO ONE can show me the Bible making that claim?? Please answer this.
All my posts have verses that ACTUALLY say what I believe. Which is WHY I believe what I believe.
The real question is: why do YOU believe election is to salvation when you know full well you can't quote any verse that says so.
First, I have just as many disagreements with the Arminians as I do with Calvinists. It's kinda funny that it seems nearly ALL Calvinists think I am an Arminian, and nearly all Arminians think I am a Calvinist. lol.
So you think free will makes me "the worst", eh? Well, well. Keep your head in the sand. I'll keep mine in the Word. I know what the Word says, unlike yourself. And I can prove it, as I did in 3040. Which you didn't like.
At least we know that you don't like certain verses; verses that refute your views.
That should be a clue.
However, in response, Ephesians chapter 1, to start.[/QUOTE]
Awelight, it seems you are unhappy with post #3040. Is it all the verses that prove election isn't about salvation but about service, or something else?
If you believe that God's election is to salvation, please quote a verse that makes that clear. Thank you.
OK, from this reponse, it appears you don't actually read posts before responding. So I'll take you through it.
You marked my post 3040 with an unhappy face. So I asked you WHY you were unhappy with it.
All the verses I shared prove that election is to service, and not to salvation. Is that what bothers you?
Then I challenged you to quote a verse that clearly shows that election is to salvation.
But you respond with such a silly question: why would you want such Scripture? What Christian wouldn't want to see the truth?
Then you make the bold but factless claim that I don't believe "in what Scripture clearly teaches".
Do you see the irony here? I asked for such a verse and you just blow it off and tell me what I don't believe what the Bible "clearly teaches".
That is what so many Calvinists do when they are cornered and know it. You know good and well that there are NO such verses that show election is to salvation. So you blow smoke.
How can I believe a claim when NO ONE can show me the Bible making that claim?? Please answer this.
All my posts have verses that ACTUALLY say what I believe. Which is WHY I believe what I believe.
The real question is: why do YOU believe election is to salvation when you know full well you can't quote any verse that says so.
First, I have just as many disagreements with the Arminians as I do with Calvinists. It's kinda funny that it seems nearly ALL Calvinists think I am an Arminian, and nearly all Arminians think I am a Calvinist. lol.
So you think free will makes me "the worst", eh? Well, well. Keep your head in the sand. I'll keep mine in the Word. I know what the Word says, unlike yourself. And I can prove it, as I did in 3040. Which you didn't like.
At least we know that you don't like certain verses; verses that refute your views.
That should be a clue.
However, in response, Ephesians chapter 1, to start.[/QUOTE]
From awelight:
For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love
I'll bet you didn't know that the "us" in "He chose us.." is actually defined in v.19, as "us who believe".
So you can swap out the "us" and put in "believers" and you have the same exact meaning.
So Eph 1:4 isn't about God choosing who will be a believer, but that He chooses (elects) believers. And the verse even tells us for what:
to be holy and blameless. That's service, if it is not clear to you.
Here's more clarity on election to service:
1 Cor 1-
27 But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong.
28 God chose the lowly things of this world and the despised things—and the things that are not—to nullify the things that are,
Color coded for extreme clarity:
The red words are who God chooses.
The blue words are the purpose for which God chooses. Which is service. Certainly not salvation.
btw, using the shotgun approach to proving your view is ridiculous.
Rather than "start with Eph 1", just quote the single most clear verse showing election is to salvation.
iow, put your money where your mouth is.
And, btw, I did start with Eph 1:4 and proved that the verse isn't about being elected to salvation.
Your turn. What can you prove?
For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love
I'll bet you didn't know that the "us" in "He chose us.." is actually defined in v.19, as "us who believe".
So you can swap out the "us" and put in "believers" and you have the same exact meaning.
So Eph 1:4 isn't about God choosing who will be a believer, but that He chooses (elects) believers. And the verse even tells us for what:
to be holy and blameless. That's service, if it is not clear to you.
Here's more clarity on election to service:
1 Cor 1-
27 But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong.
28 God chose the lowly things of this world and the despised things—and the things that are not—to nullify the things that are,
Color coded for extreme clarity:
The red words are who God chooses.
The blue words are the purpose for which God chooses. Which is service. Certainly not salvation.
btw, using the shotgun approach to proving your view is ridiculous.
Rather than "start with Eph 1", just quote the single most clear verse showing election is to salvation.
iow, put your money where your mouth is.
And, btw, I did start with Eph 1:4 and proved that the verse isn't about being elected to salvation.
Your turn. What can you prove?
This is going to take more than the 1,000 or 10,000 correctors that they give us. Yes I am a born again Christian. if you want to put a labile on me please use Acts 17. Paul and Silas were sent away from Thessalonia by night and came to Berea. they went right away to the synagogue and started teaching.
Verse 11. These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether these things were so.
Here they are getting tought by Paul and Sials 2 of the best teachers, preachers ever; but, they did not just take their word for it. They went home daily and searched the scriptures to make sure it was so. They did not have the new testament at that time so they had to prove what was tought from the old testament.
When was the last time you heard of someone going home and testing the pastors message to make sure it lined up with scripture. I would hope it is; and if it is, it is one of very few.
Sad thing to say about churches and christians today.
The next thing I want to tackle is Gods' election, or Gods' elect. These are a special group of people in my view of things.
Verse 11. These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether these things were so.
Here they are getting tought by Paul and Sials 2 of the best teachers, preachers ever; but, they did not just take their word for it. They went home daily and searched the scriptures to make sure it was so. They did not have the new testament at that time so they had to prove what was tought from the old testament.
When was the last time you heard of someone going home and testing the pastors message to make sure it lined up with scripture. I would hope it is; and if it is, it is one of very few.
Sad thing to say about churches and christians today.
The next thing I want to tackle is Gods' election, or Gods' elect. These are a special group of people in my view of things.
Gods elect.
God plays on a fair playing field, if He gives one side something He is going to give the other side the same advantage.
You have to understand Genises 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
He created it and it was perfect. Our earth at one time a plush and beautiful planet with no pollution or evil. Dinosaurs roamed our earth in its younger days and the sons of God all shouted for joy!
Scientists estimate our earth to be about 4.6 billion years old. The bible does not say WHEN God created the earth, but we do know that our earth is indeed millions of years old because of the fossils and remains, such as the dinosaurs of prehistoric times, which have been found and documented. It is probably safe to say that then was, it was a very long time ago.
2nd Peter 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
So you see, time means nothing to our Father. Even though you can not see God, through faith and by studying His word, we can discover some of the mysteries of our world!
Something happened which caused that first world age to end, and for this age, which we now live in, to begin. What or "WHO" could have caused such destruction?
God plays on a fair playing field, if He gives one side something He is going to give the other side the same advantage.
You have to understand Genises 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
He created it and it was perfect. Our earth at one time a plush and beautiful planet with no pollution or evil. Dinosaurs roamed our earth in its younger days and the sons of God all shouted for joy!
Scientists estimate our earth to be about 4.6 billion years old. The bible does not say WHEN God created the earth, but we do know that our earth is indeed millions of years old because of the fossils and remains, such as the dinosaurs of prehistoric times, which have been found and documented. It is probably safe to say that then was, it was a very long time ago.
2nd Peter 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
So you see, time means nothing to our Father. Even though you can not see God, through faith and by studying His word, we can discover some of the mysteries of our world!
Something happened which caused that first world age to end, and for this age, which we now live in, to begin. What or "WHO" could have caused such destruction?
Isaiah 45:18 For thus saith the Lord That created the heavens; God Himself That formed the earth and made it; He hath established it, He created it not in vain, He hath established it, He created it to be inhabited: I am the Lord: and there is none else.
THE HEAVENS
הַשָּׁמַ֜יִם (haš·šā·ma·yim)
Article | Noun - masculine plural
Strong's Hebrew 8064: 1) heaven, heavens, sky 1a) visible heavens, sky 1a1) as abode of the stars 1a2) as the visible universe, the sky, atmosphere, etc 1b) Heaven (as the abode of God)
THE EARTH
הָאָ֤רֶץ (hā·’ā·reṣ)
Article | Noun - feminine singular
Strong's Hebrew 776: 1) land, earth 1a) earth 1a1) whole earth (as opposed to a part) 1a2) earth (as opposed to heaven) 1a3) earth (inhabitants) 1b) land 1b1) country, territory 1b2) district, region 1b3) tribal territory 1b4) piece of ground 1b5) land of Canaan, Israel 1b6) inhabitants of land 1b7) Sheol, land without return, (under) world 1b8) city (-state) 1c) ground, surface of the earth 1c1) ground 1c2) soil 1d) (in phrases) 1d1) people of the land 1d2) space or distance of country (in measurements of distance) 1d3) level or plain country 1d4) land of the living 1d5) end(s) of the earth 1e) (almost wholly late in usage) 1e1) lands, countries 1e1a) often in contrast to Canaan
IT TO BE EMPTY,
תֹ֥הוּ (ṯō·hū)
Noun - masculine singular
Strong's Hebrew 8414: 1) formlessness, confusion, unreality, emptiness 1a) formlessness (of primeval earth) 1a1) nothingness, empty space 1b) that which is empty or unreal (of idols) (fig) 1c) wasteland, wilderness (of solitary places) 1d) place of chaos 1e) vanity
it to be inhabited—
לָשֶׁ֣בֶת (lā·še·ḇeṯ)
Preposition-l | Verb - Qal - Infinitive construct
Strong's Hebrew 3427: 1) to dwell, remain, sit, abide 1a) (Qal) 1a1) to sit, sit down 1a2) to be set 1a3) to remain, stay 1a4) to dwell, have one's abode 1b) (Niphal) to be inhabited 1c) (Piel) to set, place 1d) (Hiphil) 1d1) to cause to sit 1d2) to cause to abide, set 1d3) to cause to dwell 1d4) to cause (cities) to be inhabited 1d5) to marry (give an dwelling to) 1e) (Hophal) 1e1) to be inhabited 1e2) to make to dwell
THE HEAVENS
הַשָּׁמַ֜יִם (haš·šā·ma·yim)
Article | Noun - masculine plural
Strong's Hebrew 8064: 1) heaven, heavens, sky 1a) visible heavens, sky 1a1) as abode of the stars 1a2) as the visible universe, the sky, atmosphere, etc 1b) Heaven (as the abode of God)
THE EARTH
הָאָ֤רֶץ (hā·’ā·reṣ)
Article | Noun - feminine singular
Strong's Hebrew 776: 1) land, earth 1a) earth 1a1) whole earth (as opposed to a part) 1a2) earth (as opposed to heaven) 1a3) earth (inhabitants) 1b) land 1b1) country, territory 1b2) district, region 1b3) tribal territory 1b4) piece of ground 1b5) land of Canaan, Israel 1b6) inhabitants of land 1b7) Sheol, land without return, (under) world 1b8) city (-state) 1c) ground, surface of the earth 1c1) ground 1c2) soil 1d) (in phrases) 1d1) people of the land 1d2) space or distance of country (in measurements of distance) 1d3) level or plain country 1d4) land of the living 1d5) end(s) of the earth 1e) (almost wholly late in usage) 1e1) lands, countries 1e1a) often in contrast to Canaan
IT TO BE EMPTY,
תֹ֥הוּ (ṯō·hū)
Noun - masculine singular
Strong's Hebrew 8414: 1) formlessness, confusion, unreality, emptiness 1a) formlessness (of primeval earth) 1a1) nothingness, empty space 1b) that which is empty or unreal (of idols) (fig) 1c) wasteland, wilderness (of solitary places) 1d) place of chaos 1e) vanity
it to be inhabited—
לָשֶׁ֣בֶת (lā·še·ḇeṯ)
Preposition-l | Verb - Qal - Infinitive construct
Strong's Hebrew 3427: 1) to dwell, remain, sit, abide 1a) (Qal) 1a1) to sit, sit down 1a2) to be set 1a3) to remain, stay 1a4) to dwell, have one's abode 1b) (Niphal) to be inhabited 1c) (Piel) to set, place 1d) (Hiphil) 1d1) to cause to sit 1d2) to cause to abide, set 1d3) to cause to dwell 1d4) to cause (cities) to be inhabited 1d5) to marry (give an dwelling to) 1e) (Hophal) 1e1) to be inhabited 1e2) to make to dwell
Hebrews 11:3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
That the worlds plural How many of them will there be 2,3, or more.
2nd Peter 3. 5For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: 6Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: 7But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
2nd Peter tells us there are 3 ages the one that was, the one that is and the one that is to come. Before you start yelling at me "Its Noah's flood" lets see what the word has to say:
Jeremiah 4:23. I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.
24 I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly.
25 I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.
26 I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by his fierce anger.
If you read Genesis 7&8 you will find that the water covered the earth it did not move the mountains lightly, There was no man well there was Noah and His family, if you go back and read Genesis 7:15 And they went in unto Noah into the ark, two and two of all flesh, wherein is the breath of life. All flesh wherein is the breath of life. Stop and thank of what I am about to say. 2 of all flesh that has breath. That includes people. Noah and his family were Jewish perfect pedigree the bible says. How could Noah and his family (8 people) repopulate the earth? Could they have a Chinese baby, a Spanish baby, a Mexican baby we could go through every race in the world and the only race of people they could have is Jewish. It is imposable that 2nd Peter was talking about Noah's flood.
Something had to happen from the end of Genesis 1:1 and verse 2. What was it. Answer to come
That the worlds plural How many of them will there be 2,3, or more.
2nd Peter 3. 5For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: 6Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: 7But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
2nd Peter tells us there are 3 ages the one that was, the one that is and the one that is to come. Before you start yelling at me "Its Noah's flood" lets see what the word has to say:
Jeremiah 4:23. I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.
24 I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly.
25 I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.
26 I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by his fierce anger.
If you read Genesis 7&8 you will find that the water covered the earth it did not move the mountains lightly, There was no man well there was Noah and His family, if you go back and read Genesis 7:15 And they went in unto Noah into the ark, two and two of all flesh, wherein is the breath of life. All flesh wherein is the breath of life. Stop and thank of what I am about to say. 2 of all flesh that has breath. That includes people. Noah and his family were Jewish perfect pedigree the bible says. How could Noah and his family (8 people) repopulate the earth? Could they have a Chinese baby, a Spanish baby, a Mexican baby we could go through every race in the world and the only race of people they could have is Jewish. It is imposable that 2nd Peter was talking about Noah's flood.
Something had to happen from the end of Genesis 1:1 and verse 2. What was it. Answer to come
Please forgive me, I am confused as to what the creation account has to do with the abrahamic covenanent, more directly, the part where God told abraham,
I will make you a great nation (gen 12)
I will give you this land (gen 15)
I give this land as an eternal gift to you and all your descendants after you forever (gen 17)
and later, in the law of moses, where God made provisions for them enjoying what was given to them, or what would happen if they disobeyed him (lev 26)
as for if I am a Christ. I was adopted as Gods child over 40 years ago, when I cried out to God and asked him to save me.
ps you did not offend me (if thats who you were talking to) I was just did not want to mistake what you were saying I wanted to be clear. To many people assume things, I do not want to be one of those people.
Thank you for responding and wishing to discuss..
I will make you a great nation (gen 12)
I will give you this land (gen 15)
I give this land as an eternal gift to you and all your descendants after you forever (gen 17)
and later, in the law of moses, where God made provisions for them enjoying what was given to them, or what would happen if they disobeyed him (lev 26)
as for if I am a Christ. I was adopted as Gods child over 40 years ago, when I cried out to God and asked him to save me.
ps you did not offend me (if thats who you were talking to) I was just did not want to mistake what you were saying I wanted to be clear. To many people assume things, I do not want to be one of those people.
Thank you for responding and wishing to discuss..
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Yet, in your previous post (3047) you posted this:
from post 3047
was
הָיְתָ֥ה (hā·yə·ṯāh)
Verb - Qal - Perfect - third person feminine singular
Strong's Hebrew 1961: 1) to be, become, come to pass, exist, happen, fall out 1a) (Qal) 1a1) ----- 1a1a) to happen, fall out, occur, take place, come about, come to pass 1a1b) to come about, come to pass 1a2) to come into being, become 1a2a) to arise, appear, come 1a2b) to become 1a2b1) to become 1a2b2) to become like 1a2b3) to be instituted, be established 1a3) to be 1a3a) to exist, be in existence 1a3b) to abide, remain, continue (with word of place or time) 1a3c) to stand, lie, be in, be at, be situated (with word of locality) 1a3d) to accompany, be with 1b) (Niphal) 1b1) to occur, come to pass, be done, be brought about 1b2) to be done, be finished, be gone
The Hebrew word translated "was" in Gen 1:2 was very poorly translated. Using biblehub.com I searched the entire OT for that exact form of hayah. In just under 60% of that exact form of the word, translators used "become OR became". In only 6% of the time, translators used "was".
The only difference between "become" and "became" is tense. Something WILL become something else, or something already became something else.
Looking at all the ways translators rendered key words, v.2 should have been: but, the earth became an uninhabitable wasteland.
from post 3047
was
הָיְתָ֥ה (hā·yə·ṯāh)
Verb - Qal - Perfect - third person feminine singular
Strong's Hebrew 1961: 1) to be, become, come to pass, exist, happen, fall out 1a) (Qal) 1a1) ----- 1a1a) to happen, fall out, occur, take place, come about, come to pass 1a1b) to come about, come to pass 1a2) to come into being, become 1a2a) to arise, appear, come 1a2b) to become 1a2b1) to become 1a2b2) to become like 1a2b3) to be instituted, be established 1a3) to be 1a3a) to exist, be in existence 1a3b) to abide, remain, continue (with word of place or time) 1a3c) to stand, lie, be in, be at, be situated (with word of locality) 1a3d) to accompany, be with 1b) (Niphal) 1b1) to occur, come to pass, be done, be brought about 1b2) to be done, be finished, be gone
The Hebrew word translated "was" in Gen 1:2 was very poorly translated. Using biblehub.com I searched the entire OT for that exact form of hayah. In just under 60% of that exact form of the word, translators used "become OR became". In only 6% of the time, translators used "was".
The only difference between "become" and "became" is tense. Something WILL become something else, or something already became something else.
Looking at all the ways translators rendered key words, v.2 should have been: but, the earth became an uninhabitable wasteland.