Doctrine of Unconditional Election

[Duckybill]

Everlasting-Grace said:
If you think you will be saved because you do works.

Satan has deceived you..

I already told you whoever has faith WILL do works. So every time you keep trying to throw that passage in my face, You just keep making yourself look bad.

I love it how you refuse to look at the passages I have shown you. yet attack me as being satanic. then cry your the one being attacked.

A typical pharisee.

It appears from your question to EG that you believe the following verse refers to being judged on works for whether one will go to heaven or to the lake of fire.

Yes, Satan does deceive "the whole world", as the Bible states. And He deceives believers along with unbelievers.

Satan would be thrilled if EVERY believer thought their eternal destiny was based on works.

Revelation 20:13 (NKJV)
13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works.

Since the GWT judgment is a judgment solely of UNBELIEVERS, since all believers will have already been resurrected into glorified bodies about 1,000 years prior, there is no way any believer would be at the GWT for judgment.

So, what are all the unbelievers being judged for? That's the question.

Jesus gave us the answer in the gospels when He said this:

Matt 10:15 - Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.

Matt 11:22 - But I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon at the day of judgment, than for you.

Matt 11:24 - But I say unto you, That it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment, than for thee.

Also recorded in Luke 10:12 and 14.

So, the judgment at the GWT is to determine the degree of tolerance IN the lake of fire.

iow, it won't be the same amount of torment for everyone. For those who were more evil it will be less tolerable, and for those who were less evil, it will be more tolerable.[/QUOTE]
"Thanks for saying I can NEVER be unsaved! Wish I could say the same for OSASers! "

 

[Duckybill]

Hm? In your ost 3,495 you said this:
"No Scripture? I have Scripture. Should we believe you or God?"

Well, let's apply that to what Jesus, who is God, said about eternal security.

John 10:28 - I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.

Most Arminians (anti-eternal security types) will point to v.27 about following Jesus as to whom Jesus is referring in v.28. But there is nothing in v.27 that amounts to a condition for receiving eternal life. Jesus simply described what His sheep (believers) do or should do. Nothing more, so please don't embarrass yourself by trying that ploy here.

So, who are the "they' in v.28? Believers. Jesus made that clear back in John 5:24 - “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.

The verb tense for "believes" and "has eternal life" are present tense. What this means is that at the very MOMENT one believes savingly in Jesus Christ as Savior, they POSSESS eternal life. So eternal security begins the MOMENT one believes.

Back to 10:28, Jesus tells us that He is the Giver of the free gift of eternal life. And the result follows: and they shall never perish.

So, Db, who ya gonna believe? Jesus, the Son of God, or whoever taught you your anti-eternal security stuff?

The MOMENT a person believes in Jesus Christ as Savior, they POSSESS eternal life (John 5:24) and from that MOMENT on, they shall NEVER PERISH (10:28).

NONE of that says we can't forsake God! It clearly says NOBODY can force us to forsake God!

 

[Duckybill]

yes, and what happened to every one of them?

Tell us. Don't you know?

 

[Duckybill]

not sure what this has to do with my post.

You can't say anything about anyone. Nor can you hurt anyone. Because each will stand before God based on what they believe not what they were taught.

I also never said you can;t be unsaved, I do not even know if your saved, Thats between you or God., All I can do is judge your gospel and whether I agree or not. I can't judge you

like I said. I do not fear you.....

Matthew 10:28
And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

you can;t touch me, You can belittle me, Falsly accuse me, Attack me, even kill me, You can't touch my eternity.

You don't believe OSAS?

 

[rogerg]

You don't believe OSAS?

Wait - I don't understand, what's wrong with OSAS, isn't OSAS a good thing?

 

[FreeGrace2]

Since the GWT judgment is a judgment solely of UNBELIEVERS, since all believers will have already been resurrected into glorified bodies about 1,000 years prior, there is no way any believer would be at the GWT for judgment.

So, what are all the unbelievers being judged for? That's the question.

Jesus gave us the answer in the gospels when He said this:

Matt 10:15 - Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.

Matt 11:22 - But I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon at the day of judgment, than for you.

Matt 11:24 - But I say unto you, That it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment, than for thee.

Also recorded in Luke 10:12 and 14.

So, the judgment at the GWT is to determine the degree of tolerance IN the lake of fire.

iow, it won't be the same amount of torment for everyone. For those who were more evil it will be less tolerable, and for those who were less evil, it will be more tolerable.

"Thanks for saying I can NEVER be unsaved! Wish I could say the same for OSASers! "[/QUOTE]
Db, please figure out how to properly format your posts. Your entire post (#3,501) is what I had posted, but the post shows as if the words are from you.

 

[FreeGrace2]

NONE of that says we can't forsake God!

Trying to move the goalposts?? I never said that people can't forsake God.

What I shared from Scripture is that EVERYONE who has received the gift of eternal life SHALL NEVER PERISH.

That is what Jeus said. Do you believe what Jesus said?

It clearly says NOBODY can force us to forsake God!

Let's focus on what Jesus said. Why are you so obsessed with forsaking God?

Do you believe what Jesus said about those He gives eternal life?

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Tell us. Don't you know?

Tell you? I did. What a joke, You cut my response where I TOLD YOU what happened to every one of them

Why did you not respond to what I posted?

yes, and what happened to every one of them?

in fact lets look at the whole passage. not just the verse you posted.

11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. 14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

if you look you notice a few things

1. Death and hades were delivered. (a believer is not delivered to Jesus, he is ressurected by Jesus)
2. Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire.

everyone here is judged and found guilty and suffer their eternal fate they have earned.

They are judged according to their works. because they have rejected the one that that could save them. the cross. At the end of the judgment they are found wanting.

why?

because their works could not save them.

 

[Duckybill]

Wait - I don't understand, what's wrong with OSAS, isn't OSAS a good thing?

OSAS is a license to sin and still be Christian, issued by Satan.

 

[Duckybill]

Trying to move the goalposts?? I never said that people can't forsake God.

Amen! And that disproves OSAS!

 

[rogerg]

OSAS is a license to sin and still be Christian, issued by Satan.

License to sin - that's absurd! Where in the world did you get that from, not the Bible? You should really verify your pronouncements
against the Bible before making declarations publicly.
Are you a Christian? Do you sin? Do you still believe yourself saved? Do you consider yourself sinless or are you doomed to hell? Your doctrine is a construct of your own imagination as there is nothing like that to be found within the Bible!
Those truly saved (and saved eternally,) are under the constant scrutiny of God. Any Christian who sins is corrected in some form or another, by Him in the most of painful ways, which correction, grows exponentially worse with each transgression. Nevertheless, this correction has no bearing upon one's eternal salvation, just the opposite in fact: it is a sign of it. If salvation is not eternal once it is given, then there is no such thing as salvation. So, I think you misunderstand what sin is or what Christ's offering achieved. BTW if it is not clear in my reply, I fully believe and have faith that OSAS is God's doctrine.
What do you think these verses mean?

[Psa 37:28 KJV]
28 For the LORD loveth judgment, and forsaketh not his saints; they are preserved for ever: but the seed of the wicked shall be cut off.

[Pro 2:8 KJV]
8 He keepeth the paths of judgment, and preserveth the way of his saints.

[Heb 12:6-9 KJV]
6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected [us], and we gave [them] reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?

[Rom 7:19-25 KJV]
19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

[Phl 2:13 KJV]
13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of [his] good pleasure.

 

[Duckybill]

License to sin - that's absurd! Where in the world did you get that from, not the Bible? You should really verify your pronouncements
against the Bible before making declarations publicly.
Are you a Christian? Do you sin? Do you still believe yourself saved? Do you consider yourself sinless or are you doomed to hell? Your doctrine is a construct of your own imagination as there is nothing like that to be found within the Bible!
Those truly saved (and saved eternally,) are under the constant scrutiny of God. Any Christian who sins is corrected in some form or another, by Him in the most of painful ways, which correction, grows exponentially worse with each transgression. Nevertheless, this correction has no bearing upon one's eternal salvation, just the opposite in fact: it is a sign of it. If salvation is not eternal once it is given, then there is no such thing as salvation. So, I think you misunderstand what sin is or what Christ's offering achieved. BTW if it is not clear in my reply, I fully believe and have faith that OSAS is God's doctrine.
What do you think these verses mean?

[Psa 37:28 KJV]
28 For the LORD loveth judgment, and forsaketh not his saints; they are preserved for ever: but the seed of the wicked shall be cut off.

[Pro 2:8 KJV]
8 He keepeth the paths of judgment, and preserveth the way of his saints.

[Heb 12:6-9 KJV]
6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected [us], and we gave [them] reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?

[Rom 7:19-25 KJV]
19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

[Phl 2:13 KJV]
13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of [his] good pleasure.

That's great, if you ignore MANY Scriptures!



Written to Christians:


Galatians 5:1-4 (NKJV)
1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage. 2 Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing. 3 And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law. 4 You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.

 

[rogerg]

That's great, if you ignore MANY Scriptures!



Written to Christians:


Galatians 5:1-4 (NKJV)
1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage. 2 Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing. 3 And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law. 4 You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.

And you find sin mentioned in there, where? It is talking about works for salvation, the same works you are a proponent of.

Did you notice these verses in my reply?

[Psa 37:28 KJV]
28 For the LORD loveth judgment, and forsaketh not his saints; they are preserved for ever: but the seed of the wicked shall be cut off.

[Pro 2:8 KJV]
8 He keepeth the paths of judgment, and preserveth the way of his saints.

 

[Duckybill]

And you find sin mentioned in there, where? It is talking about works for salvation, the same works you are a proponent of.

Don't you know that Christianity is a "works" religion? What kind of cult are you in?

 

[rogerg]

Don't you know that Christianity is a "works" religion? What kind of cult are you in?

The grace and mercy of God cult. And you?

If you think Christianity is a works religion, you have a lot, lot to learn. The only works that matter are Christ's works, not ours.
Our works are against Christ's works

 

[Duckybill]

The grace and mercy of God cult. And you?

If you think Christianity is a works religion, you have a lot, lot to learn. The only works that matter are Christ's works, not ours.
Our works are against Christ's works

You've never read the NT?

James 2:17 (NKJV)
17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

 

[rogerg]

You've never read the NT?

Faith is a free gift given by the Holy Spirit to those who Jesus saves.

[Gal 5:22 KJV] 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

The one who is in the verse saying "I will shew thee my faith by my works" is Christ. He is the only one to have BOTH faith AND works and which pleased the Father. How do we know it is Christ speaking? Because He said "I will shew thee". The only one in the Bible
who can demonstrate their faith by their works was Christ. When someone becomes saved, Christ's faith is reckoned to them, and central to that faith, are Christ's works.

We are told in the Bible that our works in the eyes of God are reckoned as debt because they negate the works of Christ

[Rom 4:4 KJV] 4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

 

[Duckybill]

You don't do Christian works???

 

[rogerg]

You don't do Christian works???

I try, but true Christian works come from/by salvation, they are not the cause of it: the salvation that I received was solely as a gift. I did nothing to deserve it, as a matter of fact I most definitely didn't deserve it in any way. Christ is the Saviour in all ways, we are not.

 

[Nehemiah6]

I did nothing to deserve it, as a matter of fact I most definitely didn't deserve it in any way.

It would appear that Calvinism teaches that some "deserve" salvation while other "deserve" damnation. See the Westminster Confession of Faith.