Doctrine of Unconditional Election

[Everlasting-Grace]

Think you better read that text again my friend Joh_11:26 and everyone who lives and believes G4100 (G5719) in Me will never die. Do you believe this?"

G5723
Tense-Present See [G5774]
Voice-Active See [G5784]
Mood -Participle See [G5796]

Tense-Present simple statement of fact or reality viewed as occurring in actual time. The action is Progressive (Continuous)

They have to continue to believe, it is not a one and done situation. If they do not continue to believe then they will not be saved.

Here is your problem

You think people who have truly repented will stop believing.

That to me shows you do not know God. Or who he is. Because you do not lose faith in someone, unless they let you down.

That same author says it is the knowledge that we KNOW we HAVE ETERNAL LIFE. (That same present tense form) and that this knowledge wil be the means we continue to believe.

It is our assurance of salvation. Our assurance that God will never forsake us. Our assurance we have ETERNAL (Not Contidtional) I’ve. That is our means of continuing in our walk as we suffer here on this earth.

People who teach conditional life offer no hope. No means, No assurance. Thats why so many fall away and walk away from God. Because their faith is no where it needed to be to begin with. On Christ.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Sadly for you, we are not told that we can't forsake God.

Sadly for you. It does not matter what you can or cant do

God said he will NEVER FORAKE US.

He did not say UNLESS we forsake him,. He said never

How you can walk and ignore the meaning of NEVER, ETERNAL FOREVER, as the words from Gods mouth astonishes me

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

You can't become "estranged from Christ" and "fallen from grace" unless you're a Christian. Satan has duped you!

Yeah You can
Judas did.

Judas never had faith. Jesus called him the devil from the beginning, as one who did not believe. He walked with believers, He walked with Jesus himself. But he walked looking for the wrong reason. Like many people who walk our churches do. And that as a dog, will return to their vomit. Because after all. They are still dogs.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

You just called James a liar.

"Faith without works is DEAD"

You like so many legalists do. Are stuck on james, and totally ignore paul in romans 4. You cause the word of God to contradict itself. You cause Paul and James to be at odds. Its people like you that get so many people to reject pauls teachings as a fraud. Because Paul taught salvation through grace alone by faith alone.

James said those who CLAIM to have faith but have no works are liars and decieved.

I agree wiht James. True faith causes works.

But james did not contradict paul. You would do well to research and study the context of James better before you Attack others

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Then why are you ignoring what James said? "Faith without works is DEAD".

Why are you ignoring WHat Jesus said, What paul said?

You don not make a doctrine out of 1 verse.

 

[rogerg]

Sadly for you, we are not told that we can't forsake God.

Not that I think you will be able to comprehend it, but God has informed us of that very thing: that it is God Himself who preserves His saints for ever

[Psa 37:28 KJV] 28 For the LORD loveth judgment, and forsaketh not his saints; they are preserved for ever: but the seed of the wicked shall be cut off.

[Pro 2:8 KJV] 8 He keepeth the paths of judgment, and preserveth the way of his saints.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Christianity is a works religion. Have you not read the NT?

Christianity is NOT a religion.
Salvation is NOT by works.

Have YOU read the NT?

 

[FreeGrace2]

OSAS is a Satanic license to sin and still be saved.

Nonsense. The so-called "license to sin" comes from having a human nature. Read Romans 5. All of it.

As to eternal security being 'satanic', you are a blasphemer. Jesus taught it clearly. Maybe you just don't have ears to hear. What say you?

John 5:24 teaches that those who believe (present tense) have (as in possess - present tense) eternal life.
John 10:28 teaches that Jesus is the One who gives the gift of eternal life, and gives us the results of being given eternal life; shall never perish.

If you can't understand eternal security from these 2 verses, you just aren't wanting to.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Have you read the NT? Was Paul a Christian?

Of course x 2

1 Corinthians 9:27 (NKJV)
27 But I discipline my body and bring it into subjection, lest, when I have preached to others, I myself should become disqualified.

Do you know what Paul was warning about? I do. Do you?

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
Wow. EVERY religion in history is a "works religion". Christian is the sole exception to religion. In fact, Christianity is NOT a religion.

It is a relationship with God, the Creator of the universe, through His Son, by means of faith.

What kind of cult are you in?

Christian is not a religion?

Didn't you read my reply? I explained WHY it isn't a religion.

What did you not understand?

And would you answer what cult you are in, since nothing you have posted resembles Christianity.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Typical OSASer who results to insults because he has ZERO Scripture!

I haven't seen any Scripture from you that supports your claims.

 

[FreeGrace2]

No Scripture? Of course not. OSAS is not in the Bible!

John 5:24 with John 10:28. Clear as crystal. Open your eyes to see.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Not that I think you will be able to comprehend it, but God has informed us of that very thing: that it is God Himself who preserves His saints for ever

Preservation is quite different than perseverance.

Do you know the difference?

 

[rogerg]

Preservation is quite different than perseverance.

Do you know the difference?

Please, enlighten us oh wise one, as to your understanding of the difference between the two words, and how you perceive that they relate to Duckybil's post - the that one I replied to.

Hmm, why don't you go ahead and post the verse you are referencing for the biblical definition of "perseverance". Here is the biblical definition of "preserve":

šāmar

1. to keep, guard, observe, give heed
   1. (Qal)
      1. to keep, have charge of
      2. to keep, guard, keep watch and ward, protect, save life
         1. watch, watchman (participle)
      3. to watch for, wait for
      4. to watch, observe
      5. to keep, retain, treasure up (in memory)
      6. to keep (within bounds), restrain
      7. to observe, celebrate, keep (sabbath or covenant or commands), perform (vow)
      8. to keep, preserve, protect
      9. to keep, reserve
   2. (Niphal)
      1. to be on one's guard, take heed, take care, beware
      2. to keep oneself, refrain, abstain
      3. to be kept, be guarded
   3. (Piel) to keep, pay heed
   4. (Hithpael) to keep oneself from

[Psa 37:28 KJV] 28 For the LORD loveth judgment, and forsaketh not his saints; they are preserved for ever: but the seed of the wicked shall be cut off.

[Pro 2:8 KJV] 8 He keepeth the paths of judgment, and preserveth the way of his saints.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
Preservation is quite different than perseverance.

Do you know the difference?

Please, enlighten us oh wise one, as to your understanding of the difference between the two words, and how you perceive that they relate to Duckybil's post

Sarcasm such as this indicates that you do not know the difference. But, don't fret, you are in the majority, unfortunately.

Preservation is eternal security. Yes, God does preserve His children.

John 10:28 - I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.

Perseverance is staying in the faith. The Bible encourages believers to "remain true to the Lord/faith".

Acts 11:23 - When he arrived and saw what the grace of God had done, he was glad and encouraged them all to remain true to the Lord with all their hearts.

Acts 14:22 - strengthening the disciples and encouraging them to remain true to the faith. “We must go through many hardships to enter the kingdom of God,” they said.

Note that IF one does not "remain true to the faith or Lord" there is no warning of loss of salvation.

It should be obvious that if not remaining true to the faith or Lord DID result in loss of salvation, the Bible would be quite clear on that.

Why would it not?

- the that one I replied to.

Now you can go back to the post that you replied to and figure it all out by yourself.

Hmm, why don't you go ahead and post the verse you are referencing for the biblical definition of "perseverance".

Did.

Here is the biblical definition of "preserve":

šāmar

1. to keep, guard, observe, give heed
   1. (Qal)
      1. to keep, have charge of
      2. to keep, guard, keep watch and ward, protect, save life
         1. watch, watchman (participle)
      3. to watch for, wait for
      4. to watch, observe
      5. to keep, retain, treasure up (in memory)
      6. to keep (within bounds), restrain
      7. to observe, celebrate, keep (sabbath or covenant or commands), perform (vow)
      8. to keep, preserve, protect
      9. to keep, reserve
   2. (Niphal)
      1. to be on one's guard, take heed, take care, beware
      2. to keep oneself, refrain, abstain
      3. to be kept, be guarded
   3. (Piel) to keep, pay heed
   4. (Hithpael) to keep oneself from

Yep.

[Psa 37:28 KJV] 28 For the LORD loveth judgment, and forsaketh not his saints; they are preserved for ever: but the seed of the wicked shall be cut off.

Here, preservation is the issue; eternal security.

[Pro 2:8 KJV] 8 He keepeth the paths of judgment, and preserveth the way of his saints.

All who have believed will go to heaven. Eternal security.

If you want to argue about eternal security, I will refer you to the Savior, who SAID that those He gives eternal life shall NEVER perish.

Go argue with Him.

 

[rogerg]

Scholars say that the word "of" can be rendered "in". Go to biblehub.com and see the "lexicon" for that verse.

My interlinear, by Alfred Marshall has the word "in" in parenthesis following "of".

So this verse hardly supports your claim. Those who know the Greek wouldn't agree with you.

You're correct. No single verse should be used to establish a doctrine, luckily however, there are others that inform us of the same thing. Here is another one. We can clearly and distinctly see that the faith is "of Christ". Knowing this then, we can be assured that righteousness and hence salvation, is by Christ's faith, not ours.

[Phl 3:9 KJV] 9 And[G2532] be found[G2147] in[G1722] him,[G846] not[G3361] having[G2192] mine own[G1699] righteousness,[G1343] which[G3588] is of[G1537] the law,[G3551] but[G235] that which[G3588] is through[G1223] the faith[G4102] of Christ,[G5547] the righteousness[G1343] which[G3588] is of[G1537] God[G2316] by[G1909] faith:[G4102]

 

[FreeGrace2]

You're correct. No single verse should be used to establish a doctrine, luckily however, there are others that inform us of the same thing. Here is another one. We can clearly and distinctly see that the faith is "of Christ". Knowing this then, we can be assured that righteousness and hence salvation, is by Christ's faith, not ours.

[Phl 3:9 KJV] 9 And[G2532] be found[G2147] in[G1722] him,[G846] not[G3361] having[G2192] mine own[G1699] righteousness,[G1343] which[G3588] is of[G1537] the law,[G3551] but[G235] that which[G3588] is through[G1223] the faith[G4102] of Christ,[G5547] the righteousness[G1343] which[G3588] is of[G1537] God[G2316] by[G1909] faith:[G4102]

We have the same situation here as in Gal 2:16. The vast majority of English translations of Phil 3:9 have "faith IN Christ".

Can you explain what exactly Christ is having His faith IN? What is He trusting in or on?

 

[rogerg]

Perseverance is staying in the faith. The Bible encourages believers to "remain true to the Lord/faith".

Acts 11:23 - When he arrived and saw what the grace of God had done, he was glad and encouraged them all to remain true to the Lord with all their hearts.

Acts 14:22 - strengthening the disciples and encouraging them to remain true to the faith. “We must go through many hardships to enter the kingdom of God,” they said.

Your reply tells us nothing. I asked you for biblical verses to make visible the definition of perseverance. You posted no such verse.
I asked you to explain how your reply to my post pertains to Duckbil's and the topic at hand. You did not answer.

You chose to include "perseverance" and made it the crux of the discussion in some way, I didn't. Your inclusion of it as it turns out, was irrelevant and when asked, you could provide no explanation of its significance.

 

[rogerg]

We have the same situation here as in Gal 2:16. The vast majority of English translations of Phil 3:9 have "faith IN Christ".

Can you explain what exactly Christ is having His faith IN? What is He trusting in or on?

We do not have that same "situation" with that verse. Instead, that verse clarifies further, and confirms the faith mentioned
in the first part of Gal 2:16 - which you chose to interpret as "in", not "of" (but it should be "of"), not to mention that an "in" would be totally illogical; by it, you would be suggesting the following interpretation: " by faith IN Jesus Christ, we have believed IN Jesus Christ". So, with that interpretation, someone would first have to believe in Christ order to believe in Christ. How could that be possible?
If you look at the Phl 3:9 which I posted, it is obvious that the "of Christ" identifies whose faith it is: the "of Christ" is explicit, not implicit.
As to your question, Christ was faithful to the mission the Father had assigned to Him to bring to fruition the promise God had made to Abraham, through which promise, and though Christ's faithfulness, was God's judgement
removed from the elect by His offering, and thereby, was God's promise fulfilled.

[Gal 3:8 KJV] 8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, [saying], In thee shall all nations be blessed.

It is God who justifies the heathen through faith. So, in order for the heathen to be justified by it, the faith cannot be of the heathen, it can only of God - a faith external to the heathen.

[Gal 3:5 KJV] 5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, [doeth he it] by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

"hearing of faith": the Holy Sprit ministers to the elect through the hearing of Christ's faith, not their faith. This means He first had to
give them ears that hear - spiritual hearing, not physical hearing.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
Perseverance is staying in the faith. The Bible encourages believers to "remain true to the Lord/faith".

Acts 11:23 - When he arrived and saw what the grace of God had done, he was glad and encouraged them all to remain true to the Lord with all their hearts.

Acts 14:22 - strengthening the disciples and encouraging them to remain true to the faith. “We must go through many hardships to enter the kingdom of God,” they said.

Your reply tells us nothing.

It does to those who comprehend.

I asked you for biblical verses to make visible the definition of perseverance. You posted no such verse.

Demanding verses with YOUR specific wording isn't how the Bible works. I SHOWED the difference between the 2 words.

I asked you to explain how your reply to my post pertains to Duckbil's and the topic at hand. You did not answer.

I sure did. I told you that since I explained the difference you were free to go back to the post and figure it all out yourself.

You chose to include "perseverance" and made it the crux of the discussion in some way, I didn't.

The way you used "preservation" suggested you thought it meant to persevere. Maybe you didn't. But you did indicate that you didn't know the difference. So now you do know the difference.

Your inclusion of it as it turns out, was irrelevant and when asked, you could provide no explanation of its significance.

Sorry I confused you so much.