Does a porn addict have to forsake porn BEFORE God will forgive them?

[john832]

So a porn addict must be perfect before Christ will accept them? Are you sure? The lady at the well was in a sinful relationship and Christ still reached out to her. I think you are being very judgmental.

No, he must be repentant. He must not practice porn as a matter of course, he must desire to repentant and stop using porn. Even though one slips and falls, if the overall attitude is one of desiring to repent, the person is forgiven when he goes to God in humble repentance...

Luk 18:10 Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.
Luk 18:11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
Luk 18:12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
Luk 18:13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
Luk 18:14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

Now, did Christ give carte blanche privilege to sin here?

Joh 5:14 Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee.

Joh 8:11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

David understood about repentance and forgiveness...

Psa 130:3 If thou, LORD, shouldest mark iniquities, O Lord, who shall stand?
Psa 130:4 But there is forgiveness with thee, that thou mayest be feared.

 

[homwardbound]

You can't continue in sin, your suppose to actually stop . If the sin is a habitual sin , do not expect God to respect that. You can't con God. And you would only be fooling yourself into thinking your in good standing.

From God's view through Christ we are, and it is upon whether one believes God to have finished the work need for you to be complete in God through Son, and then just walk in that, every time anyone tries to not sin, they either sin or they do not for a short while and either get trapped into continual guilt or pride, guilt if they sin again and pride if they don't

Sound familiar? So now maybe God can oipen up this scripture to you and me and all?
Galatians 6:8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.

Every time "I" try to not sin, what happens, sound familiar, and so one tries harder not to after asking God for forgiveness over and over again, thinking God is doing this as new forgiveness over and over again, when Father is not, and Christ is not coming back to re crucify himself and or shed anymore blood for anymore forgiveness is he?

There is no further repentance after repenting and belief to God, if one finalizes this they are forgiven by Christ in the shed blood of Christ back at the cross before they were ever born? Then one might see new life in the Spirit after agreeing to be dead to self flesh with Christ at the death of Christ for new life in the resurrected Christ by Faith right here right now and thus walk by God's Spirit the same as Christ did

We are saved by the resurrected Christ alive here and now, not by the death, yet death is the way, the truth to the new life in Spirit and truth
Thank you praying we all are listening?

 

[homwardbound]

It is certain that repentance comes first.
But what of forgiveness if that addict falls back?
Can they live in sin? - NO.
But does God forgive to the utmost-(70x7 in a day); yes.
So it comes back to the intent of the heart.
Continuing in sin hardens it.
But God's grace through Jesus Christ softens it.
So it comes down to intent.
It is both a mistake to think he can do as he will under grace;
and a equal mistake to measure his relationship to God by outward righteousness.
In that case he is worshiping his own will.

It comes down to a living, loving relationship with the God of Life through His Spirit.
But cutting off the offense is a necessity, as God is not mocked.
Paul said - "I keep my flesh under subjection, lest I having preached to others become a castaway."

Did Paul get boastful and or proud? What did he say to that? 2 Cor 12
that he will glory in what his righteousness, or his iniquities? Is God's grace sufficient for us, Paul tells us it is right?

So can anyone outside of Christ be perfect? Can anyone's flesh effort ever please God outside of Christ's?
Did he come to give life or death to us and how would this be death when we all are born dead to life in Spirit and truth
He came to give life right? So is this life in the cross and where at in the cross? In his death? No I think not, there is no life in death is there? Yet we all must go through death to ourselves with the death to flesh at the cross, Christ's death for us before we can see new life in Spirit and truth right?
So where is this new life? Is it in his death or in the resurrected Christ for us to walk new, our minds being renmewed to God's view point not this corrupted worlds,you think?

 

[BenFTW]

The getting over of sin over time is not the way to salvation. Once a person gets over a sin, no matter how habitual, is not the moment the person is forgiven and saved. That is a works-based mindset, that is confidence in the flesh to overcome the flesh for salvation. Jesus is the Way, the Truth, and the Life, it is through Him that we have salvation. I repeat, the getting over of sin(over time) is not what gives you salvation. Are you trying to turn God's grace(Christianity) into man's religion(think of Nirvana and reincarnation)?

 

[john832]

The getting over of sin over time is not the way to salvation. Once a person gets over a sin, no matter how habitual, is not the moment the person is forgiven and saved. That is a works-based mindset, that is confidence in the flesh to overcome the flesh for salvation. Jesus is the Way, the Truth, and the Life, it is through Him that we have salvation. I repeat, the getting over of sin(over time) is not what gives you salvation. Are you trying to turn God's grace(Christianity) into man's religion(think of Nirvana and reincarnation)?

Are you telling me that a practicing murderer or child molester is OK in God's eyes? They are forgiven, so they are not to be judged for murdering or molesting children?

Does God give salvation to one who practices sin?

 

[BenFTW]

Are you telling me that a practicing murderer or child molester is OK in God's eyes? They are forgiven, so they are not to be judged for murdering or molesting children?

Does God give salvation to one who practices sin?

The point is not to justify people struggling with sin, but that's the point. They are struggling. Its not something they desire to do. Some people take a life time to overcome sin, but the point at which they've overcome is not the point at which salvation is theirs. Our sins, past, present, and future are forgiven in Christ. His blood is not like the blood of bulls and goats needing to be sacrificed again and again otherwise he would've suffered since the creation of the world (Hebrews 9:26, and Hebrews 10).

We are not speaking of people indulging in sin, such as is the case in your extreme examples. They are looking for an excuse to indulge in their wickedness, but that isn't grace being a license to sin, but their flesh. They don't need a license to sin, they are already sinning. Don't think of grace as a license to sin, because first people already are sinning without license and secondly, even in the OT people could have abused the sacrificial system to commit sins and then have them covered again and again.

In regards to the practice of sin, the blood of Christ continually cleanses us. This isn't to say to indulge in sin, as sin is against the born-again nature of the children of God. Our flesh is crucified. We are to be considered dead to sin. A born-again Christian is not dominated by sin, for they are not under law but grace. Remember that. That is the truth of God's grace and yes, its radical. Yet also, its freeing. Grace actually teaches us something, read the verse down below.

Titus 2:11-13

King James Version (KJV)

11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;


Is grace a license to sin? Re-read the verse above.

I hope I clarified well enough for you to see God's grace and know that the getting over of sin is not when a person receives salvation. Salvation is theirs currently, as even their future sins are taken away in Christ. To say that a person isn't saved until they overcome their sins, is to say that Christ didn't finish the job and He left some work for you. Sorry(not really) but our salvation is in Christ's work, not our own (self-righteousness).

 

[homwardbound]

Are you telling me that a practicing murderer or child molester is OK in God's eyes? They are forgiven, so they are not to be judged for murdering or molesting children?

Does God give salvation to one who practices sin?

God gave forgiveness to all, and not new life until they seek that out as in finalizing they are forgiven in appreciation to Father And father gives the gift of new life and we see Christ alive forever more, and are changed in the twinkling of an eye
It is the resurrected life that saves not the death. So we as Father's children die daily to self with Son at the death of Son in order to be alive in Spirit and truth daily mind you

 

[Skinski7]

So a porn addict must be perfect before Christ will accept them? Are you sure? The lady at the well was in a sinful relationship and Christ still reached out to her. I think you are being very judgmental.

The cessation of child molestation has nothing to do with being perfect. Anyone who is molesting children is willfully choosing to do evil and unless they repent and forsake such evil they will not inherit the kingdom. To teach otherwise is to teach that you can sin and not surely die.

Jas 1:21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.
Jas 1:22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.

Isa 55:7 Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.

A child molester must lay aside all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness and receive with meekness the engrafted word which would save their soul. One cannot receive Jesus and reject Him at the same time. To engage in vile sin is to reject Christ.

The reason people are forced to answer no to this question is because they want to cling to a salvation theology which is inclusive of ongoing rebellion to God.

 

[Skinski7]

From God's view through Christ we are, and it is upon whether one believes God to have finished the work need for you to be complete in God through Son, and then just walk in that, every time anyone tries to not sin, they either sin or they do not for a short while and either get trapped into continual guilt or pride, guilt if they sin again and pride if they don't

The point is not to justify people struggling with sin, but that's the point. They are struggling. Its not something they desire to do. Some people take a life time to overcome sin, but the point at which they've overcome is not the point at which salvation is theirs. Our sins, past, present, and future are forgiven in Christ.

After the Work of Christ, God is not holding any man's sins against them; if they believe in/receive the Work of Christ, it is He Who gives them New Life, and as they mature in Him, His Fruit is produced \o/.

So in answer to the OP, no. One does not need to clean one's self up to come and be cleansed by Christ Jesus. Christ can handle ANY mess.

Forgiveness was granted 2000 yrs ago.

Now people just need to learn about it.

All the quoted responses above are reflective of the deception of an "abstract salvation" theology. These people all believe that the work of Christ was to effect an abstract judicial abstraction whereby God no longer looks at the true condition of an individual's heart, but instead pretends they are righteous.

Future sins were not forgiven 2000 years ago and the death of Christ does not effect an abstract judicial transaction which serves to cloak an ongoing manifest state of iniquity in the heart.

The real Gospel message encompasses a redemption from iniquity as opposed to a redemption in iniquity. We are not saved from sin and left in a state of bondage to it, that is to mock genuine salvation. God is not weak nor is His salvation weak and ineffectual.

The blood of Christ is to cleanse us from ALL iniquity and ALL unrighteousness in reality. It is not a forensic provision which covers a life where you can continue to sin and not surely die.

Jesus quite plainly stated that it is the pure in heart who will see God. Heart purity is a manifest reality in those whom are born again, it is not some forensic provision.

1Pe 1:22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:
1Pe 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

No one obeys the truth through the Spirit being born again of the incorruptible seed by the word of God and still occasionally molests children. That is pure foolishness and it is truly amazing that people can actually be convinced to believe it.

 

[Sirk]

The cessation of child molestation has nothing to do with being perfect. Anyone who is molesting children is willfully choosing to do evil and unless they repent and forsake such evil they will not inherit the kingdom. To teach otherwise is to teach that you can sin and not surely die.

Jas 1:21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.
Jas 1:22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.

Isa 55:7 Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.

A child molester must lay aside all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness and receive with meekness the engrafted word which would save their soul. One cannot receive Jesus and reject Him at the same time. To engage in vile sin is to reject Christ.

The reason people are forced to answer no to this question is because they want to cling to a salvation theology which is inclusive of ongoing rebellion to God.

Its the same as children....willful disobedience is different than childishness. In other words...in this life we can never be free from sin but we can sin and not know it at the time.... or we can willfully disobey God and His word. Is this what you are saying?

 

[john832]

The point is not to justify people struggling with sin, but that's the point. They are struggling. Its not something they desire to do. Some people take a life time to overcome sin, but the point at which they've overcome is not the point at which salvation is theirs. Our sins, past, present, and future are forgiven in Christ. His blood is not like the blood of bulls and goats needing to be sacrificed again and again otherwise he would've suffered since the creation of the world (Hebrews 9:26, and Hebrews 10).

We are not speaking of people indulging in sin, such as is the case in your extreme examples. They are looking for an excuse to indulge in their wickedness, but that isn't grace being a license to sin, but their flesh. They don't need a license to sin, they are already sinning. Don't think of grace as a license to sin, because first people already are sinning without license and secondly, even in the OT people could have abused the sacrificial system to commit sins and then have them covered again and again.

In regards to the practice of sin, the blood of Christ continually cleanses us. This isn't to say to indulge in sin, as sin is against the born-again nature of the children of God. Our flesh is crucified. We are to be considered dead to sin. A born-again Christian is not dominated by sin, for they are not under law but grace. Remember that. That is the truth of God's grace and yes, its radical. Yet also, its freeing. Grace actually teaches us something, read the verse down below.

Titus 2:11-13

King James Version (KJV)

11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;


Is grace a license to sin? Re-read the verse above.

I hope I clarified well enough for you to see God's grace and know that the getting over of sin is not when a person receives salvation. Salvation is theirs currently, as even their future sins are taken away in Christ. To say that a person isn't saved until they overcome their sins, is to say that Christ didn't finish the job and He left some work for you. Sorry(not really) but our salvation is in Christ's work, not our own (self-righteousness).

Salvation is given at the resurrection.

 

[Skinski7]

Its the same as children....willful disobedience is different than childishness. In other words...in this life we can never be free from sin but we can sin and not know it at the time.... or we can willfully disobey God and His word. Is this what you are saying?

A distinction between "sin unto death" and "sin not unto death" is essential.

Sin unto death is the willful choosing to do evil knowing it is evil hence...

Jas 4:17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

The sin that kills is "transgression."

1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Therefore human beings have the two options of "obedience unto righteousness" or "sin unto death." We cannot do both, we yield to one or the other.

Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?




Sin can be defined as "missing the mark" and that is inclusive of both willful sin and sins of ignorance. God corrects us of sins of ignorance, which could be likened to 'childishness' as you say, and we grow in the grace and knowledge of Jesus Christ. Willful sin on the other hand defiles the soul and brings condemnation and the only means of escape is via a true repentance experience whereby we approach God via the blood of Christ seeking to be cleansed.

The children of God are manifest to the world by their deeds of righteousness. We therefore do not engage in willful sin. It doesn't mean that we are perfect in wisdom and knowledge and therefore free from erring, what it does mean is that our hearts are clean and pure before God.

1Jn 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
1Jn 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
1Jn 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
1Jn 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

 

[john832]

Its the same as children....willful disobedience is different than childishness. In other words...in this life we can never be free from sin but we can sin and not know it at the time.... or we can willfully disobey God and His word. Is this what you are saying?

Shouldn't we be going to God and asking Him to show us our "secret" (read unrecognized here) sins?

Psa 19:12 Who can understand his errors? cleanse thou me from secret faults.
Psa 19:13 Keep back thy servant also from presumptuous sins; let them not have dominion over me: then shall I be upright, and I shall be innocent from the great transgression.

This is a case of ignorance is certainly NOT bliss.

 

[john832]

A distinction between "sin unto death" and "sin not unto death" is essential.

Sin unto death is the willful choosing to do evil knowing it is evil hence...

Jas 4:17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

The sin that kills is "transgression."

1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Therefore human beings have the two options of "obedience unto righteousness" or "sin unto death." We cannot do both, we yield to one or the other.

Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?




Sin can be defined as "missing the mark" and that is inclusive of both willful sin and sins of ignorance. God corrects us of sins of ignorance, which could be likened to 'childishness' as you say, and we grow in the grace and knowledge of Jesus Christ. Willful sin on the other hand defiles the soul and brings condemnation and the only means of escape is via a true repentance experience whereby we approach God via the blood of Christ seeking to be cleansed.

The children of God are manifest to the world by their deeds of righteousness. We therefore do not engage in willful sin. It doesn't mean that we are perfect in wisdom and knowledge and therefore free from erring, what it does mean is that our hearts are clean and pure before God.

1Jn 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
1Jn 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
1Jn 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
1Jn 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

Careful here, you are beginning to sound like me!

 

[Cobus]

ALL sin has to be REPENTED before God forgives them. Why should God forgive ANY man twice when HE knows when the man is DONE with that particular sin? Or why should god forgive a man ANY sin when god knows when theman will be done with ALL sin, and only forgive the man ONCE for ALL sin when the man is DONE with sin?

I think we should give God a bit more credit on what HE knows and HOW POWERFUL He is. God does not have to keep Himslef busy with sinners. He has a Son that does that part. That is why Jesus said.... NO ONE COMES TO THE FATHER IF NOT BY HIM (Jesus)!

Let us see what Jesus said then it is EASY to see how God really does BAPTIZE with ABSOLUTE Holiness in a second...


Joh 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

NO MAN can come to Jesus if the FATHER does not draw that person... and no man can come to the Father but by Jesus....
Now it looks easy does it not. Father DRAWS us to Jesus, and Jesus does ALL he has to do to GET US TO FATHER.

How? Well he says it right here... What is Jesus? He is the WAY to God, He is the TRUTH of God and He is the LIFE of God....

Jesus will lead us on the WAY of TRUTH to the LIFE in FATHER GOD!

Jesus leads ALL sinners on His WAY (making holy and laying down sin), with the TRUTH (Word of God) to the LIFE in God (Holy Life in God) Born of God life....

 

[And]

God forgives you right now if you ask him
and he gives you strength to sanctify yourself and your desire for porn goes away when you choose to remain with Jesus the word of God rather than porn

A judge or police officer may forgive you right away, but they expect you to remain forgiven.

by the grace of god go and sin no more.

 

[thecreationtutor]

Does a porn addict have to forsake porn BEFORE God will forgive them?

My answer to that question is an unequivocal YES!

Jas 1:21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.
Jas 1:22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.

Isa 55:7 Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.



Now my question is not addressing the METHODOLOGY or the HOW one may forsake a certain behaviour. My question is simply addressing the issue as to whether certain behaviour must literally cease BEFORE God will grant forgiveness.

crisis - process, fail in the process - needs to be brought back to the crisis, would denote no silver bullet in sancification

 

[thecreationtutor]

says also nothing about the root sin that is under the surface that causes that behavior

 

[Skinski7]

says also nothing about the root sin that is under the surface that causes that behavior

The root of sin is iniquity in the heart. In other words a willingness to choose to do evil.

Godly sorrow working a repentance unto salvation serves to destroy that willingness. A wild horse must be broken before it will submit to a rider and a sinner must be broken before they will submit to God.

Therefore we are buried with Christ in the baptism of repentance whereby our old man is crucified once and for all that the body of sin be destroyed once and for all. That from henceforth we no longer serve sin because the willingness to do so has been destroyed and in its place has arisen a willingness to serve righteousness. That is what the Bible teaches.

The above does not occur in this accept and trust Jesus salvation message. The above does not occur in this "I was born a sinner and I sin every day in thought, word and deed" message. The reason is does not occur is because the crucifixion of the flesh with the associated passions and desires is viewed as impossible due to the belief in an inbred sin nature. An inbred sin nature cannot be crucified because it has nothing to do with the free exercise of the will.

We are all tempted by the natural passions of the flesh but those passions are not sinful. They are simply natural passions. Sin is when we give ourselves over (like animals) to fleshly desire and choose to do evil. That giving ourselves over has to stop BEFORE God grants forgiveness otherwise his mercy is mocked for it simple becomes a license to keep on sinning.

 

[thecreationtutor]

The root of sin is iniquity in the heart. In other words a willingness to choose to do evil.

Godly sorrow working a repentance unto salvation serves to destroy that willingness. A wild horse must be broken before it will submit to a rider and a sinner must be broken before they will submit to God.

Therefore we are buried with Christ in the baptism of repentance whereby our old man is crucified once and for all that the body of sin be destroyed once and for all. That from henceforth we no longer serve sin because the willingness to do so has been destroyed and in its place has arisen a willingness to serve righteousness. That is what the Bible teaches.

The above does not occur in this accept and trust Jesus salvation message. The above does not occur in this "I was born a sinner and I sin every day in thought, word and deed" message. The reason is does not occur is because the crucifixion of the flesh with the associated passions and desires is viewed as impossible due to the belief in an inbred sin nature. An inbred sin nature cannot be crucified because it has nothing to do with the free exercise of the will.

We are all tempted by the natural passions of the flesh but those passions are not sinful. They are simply natural passions. Sin is when we give ourselves over (like animals) to fleshly desire and choose to do evil. That giving ourselves over has to stop BEFORE God grants forgiveness otherwise his mercy is mocked for it simple becomes a license to keep on sinning.

still doesn't tell us anything helpful