Does Acts 2:38 mean we have to be baptized to get into Heaven? -Debate

[kennethcadwell]

The Royal law says that we love others as ourselves... If we hold others and preach to others a standard we cannot keep ourselves we are transgressors of the true Law of God... No one who teaches the law (10 Commandments and all) keeps the law...nor do they keep the Royal law... This is why the Lord told us to get the Log (hypocrisy) out of our own eye first, and then we can help others...

Anyone who claims to keep the Commandments of God is deceived ...unless they have learned to keep the royal law first.

That is not what that scripture is saying.
That scripture is talking about that we need to deal with the sins in our own life, and work on eliminating them with the guidance of the Holy Spirit. And not hold the sins of others against them ( judging them ) because we are all guilty of sins and are deserving of death. The good news is though that we can be forgiven of those sins by His grace, love, mercy, and forgiveness to us. In turn we are to show that same love, mercy, and forgiveness to others.

It is true that we can not keep God's moral laws without His help and guidance from the Holy Spirit, but the taking the log out of your eye is about not judging and looking down on others for their sin for you are equally guilty by yours. And unless you repent of your sins you will die just like them for their unrepented sin. ( Luke 13:3 )

 

[elf3]

Someone on this forum just made not being baptized by water a mortifying sin on another forum. You just condemned every person on their death bed coming to Christ and not being baptized "lost". I am not saying don't be baptized, as I have been accused of by the same person, but you will not lose your salvation by not being baptized. If baptism was so important to our salvation don't you think Jesus would have emphasized it more? Jesus only gives two things he states as "commands"...love God love others.

And don't tell me "God chooses" because then that goes against your own belief. Because if you state that baptism is needed for salvation then you say "it's up to God" you contradict your own belief. The reason is this...God doesn't change the "rules for justification depending on the circumstance". God does not say to some "since you will live long you must be baptized for salvation" and to others "your gonna die don't worry about baptism because your saved now". This makes God someone we cannot trust because He can change the rules depending on the circumstance.

And actually it is up to God as he has "chosen" who will believe and who won't believe. God will do as He pleases according to His Will. God already has those names written in the book of life and that book is sealed till the last days. So that book won't and can't be altered ever!

I will not sit here and let someone teach a false doctrine and condemn others because they "didn't get baptized by water". Your teaching a self righteous doctrine that is contradicting the Bible.

You either have faith or you don't that's the bottom line. Have faith eternal life don't have faith eternal damnation.

 

[notuptome]

That is not what that scripture is saying.
That scripture is talking about that we need to deal with the sins in our own life, and work on eliminating them with the guidance of the Holy Spirit. And not hold the sins of others against them ( judging them ) because we are all guilty of sins and are deserving of death. The good news is though that we can be forgiven of those sins by His grace, love, mercy, and forgiveness to us. In turn we are to show that same love, mercy, and forgiveness to others.

It is true that we can not keep God's moral laws without His help and guidance from the Holy Spirit, but the taking the log out of your eye is about not judging and looking down on others for their sin for you are equally guilty by yours. And unless you repent of your sins you will die just like them for their unrepented sin. ( Luke 13:3 )

We need to allow Christ to serve us. We need to allow Christ to wash our feet that we may be clean to wit. We do not do it ourselves.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[kennethcadwell]

Someone on this forum just made not being baptized by water a mortifying sin on another forum. You just condemned every person on their death bed coming to Christ and not being baptized "lost". I am not saying don't be baptized, as I have been accused of by the same person, but you will not lose your salvation by not being baptized. If baptism was so important to our salvation don't you think Jesus would have emphasized it more? Jesus only gives two things he states as "commands"...love God love others.

And don't tell me "God chooses" because then that goes against your own belief. Because if you state that baptism is needed for salvation then you say "it's up to God" you contradict your own belief. The reason is this...God doesn't change the "rules for justification depending on the circumstance". God does not say to some "since you will live long you must be baptized for salvation" and to others "your gonna die don't worry about baptism because your saved now". This makes God someone we cannot trust because He can change the rules depending on the circumstance.

And actually it is up to God as he has "chosen" who will believe and who won't believe. God will do as He pleases according to His Will. God already has those names written in the book of life and that book is sealed till the last days. So that book won't and can't be altered ever!

I will not sit here and let someone teach a false doctrine and condemn others because they "didn't get baptized by water". Your teaching a self righteous doctrine that is contradicting the Bible.

You either have faith or you don't that's the bottom line. Have faith eternal life don't have faith eternal damnation.

No, Jesus commanded baptism in both Matthew 28 and in Mark 16.
It is a direct disobedience to the Lord to not obey that command, and then if you pay attention to what I and others have said is that the Lord said He will have mercy on who He will have mercy. That judgment call on salvation is left up to Him, and knowing that our Lord is just He will forgive them when they repent by knowing their heart.

Remember that when one repents on their death bed they are repenting of all their sins done rather knowingly or unknowingly. Psalm 19:12-13 (unknown sins), Psalm 51: 12-14 (restore salvation), Psalm 139:23-24 (leading to salvation),

All sins are forgivable except for blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, and disobedience is a sin, so to disobey a commandment would be a sin. But it can be forgiven if asked. Look at all that a person says before making a call on them.

Everything that precedes from the mouth of the Lord on to do is a command, rather the scripture says the actual word command in it or not. If the Lord says you have to help the poor and needy as He does in Matthew 25, it is a command even though the word command is nowhere in that scripture.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I am not making false accusations because I have seen some on here say just that, that you can disobey and not keep His commandments and still be saved.

Where? I have yet to hear anyone say this..

 

[SeaBass]

How do you reconcile your position with Ephesians 2:8-9 where scripture clearly states that we are saved by grace through faith. There is no mention of water baptism anywhere in the verse. Was Paul lying or just completely wrong when under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit he penned these words?

Until and unless you can harmonize these scriptures your doctrine is in error. Salvation is not be water baptism. There is no water baptism in John 3:16 either. That is right from the lips of Jesus.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Eph 2:8 says we are saved by faith. 1 Pet 3:21 says baptism saves.

Eph 2:8----faith>>>>>>>>>>saves
1Pet3:21--baptism>>>>>>>>saves

Since there is just one way to be saved, then the "faith" of Eph 2:8 that saves MUST include baptism.

 

[dcontroversal]

Where? I have yet to hear anyone say this..

No doubt and I would like to see posts and threads that say this.........

 

[SeaBass]

A person can be dunked a thousands times but until they believe the Gospel...they cannot be saved.

Ro 1:16 ¶ For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth;

Paul did not teach salvation by baptism but salvation through faith in the gospel and baptism as a picture and as a act of obedience to the gospel that has ALREADY saved the believer.

MK 16:16, Jesus made believing a prerequisite to baptism so an unbeliever cannot be baptized. Jesus also made baptism a prerequisite to being saved so an unbaptized person cannot be saved.


1 Cor 1:12,13; Gal 3:27; Cole 2:12-14; Rom 6:3-6 are some verses where Paul taught the necessity of baptism.


Mk 16:16-------baptism>>>>>>>>>>saved
Acts 2:28------baptism>>>>>>>>>>for the remission of sins
Acts 22:16-----baptism>>>>>>>>>>wash away sins
1Pet3:21-------baptism>>>>>>>>>>saves
Gal 3:27--------baptism>>>>>>>>>>in Christ
Col 2:12,13----baptism>>>>>>>>>>put off the body of sin
Rom 6:4-------baptism>>>>>>>>>>walk in newness of life
1 Cor 12:13----baptized>>>>>>>>>in the body
Jn 3:5----------baptized>>>>>>>>>in the kingdom

The order of all the above verses put baptism BEFORE saved not after.

 

[kennethcadwell]

Where? I have yet to hear anyone say this..

No doubt and I would like to see posts and threads that say this.........

All you two have to do is go through all the many posts in the multiple threads on baptism, and you will see at least a couple of people telling others they don't need to get baptized ( in water ).

 

[eternally-gratefull]

All you two have to do is go through all the many posts in the multiple threads on baptism, and you will see at least a couple of people telling others they don't need to get baptized ( in water ).

for salvation. no

But to say one does not have to. I have never heard anyone say this. period.

 

[SeaBass]

Nope. Because you ignored what Jesus said.

it is the WORK OF GOD that we believe.

You can not equate that to a work of man in water baptism,

It is the work of God for God is the source of the work that He has given to man.

Verse 29 "This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent."

God had given YOU the work of believing.

Verse 28 "Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?"

How would you answer these people's question: "what shall we do?"



---------------------------------------------

THe NT work of belief does include baptism, Acts 2:41 cf verse 44

 

[SeaBass]

I tried to ignore this guy, because his stuff is so out there that it is amazing even he believes it, But everyone wants to respond to him.

Unless we all stop responding to him, he will continue his nonsense, And we will have to listen to it.

Mk 16:16 "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;"

What is so "out there" or hard to understand that one must believe AND be baptized to be saved? This is not rocket science or brain surgery.

Jn 5:24 "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life,"

What must one do to have everlasting life? Just hear only? Or hear AND believe?

 

[notuptome]

Eph 2:8 says we are saved by faith. 1 Pet 3:21 says baptism saves.

Eph 2:8----faith>>>>>>>>>>saves
1Pet3:21--baptism>>>>>>>>saves

Since there is just one way to be saved, then the "faith" of Eph 2:8 that saves MUST include baptism.

No quite correct. It says we are saved by grace and it is a gift of God. Water baptism has nothing to do with salvation. You are adding to God word. I wonder if you have considered what God said about that? Rev 22:18 I won't get dogmatic but it is an interesting question.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[SeaBass]

No im saying that baptism must be considered within the truth of all the scriptures and it is a servant to the truth of the gospel, that when one looks at baptism in context of what it represented, it is error to place baptism as a work unto salvation but it is a work from the salvation delivered to us in the gospel.. Its a outward display of the work the gospel has done in that we have died with Christ and been raised with Christ.

But what do you do with all the verses that have the order of baptism BEFORE salvation?

Mk 16:16-------baptism>>>>>>>>>>saved
Acts 2:28------baptism>>>>>>>>>>for the remission of sins
Acts 22:16-----baptism>>>>>>>>>>wash away sins
1Pet3:21-------baptism>>>>>>>>>>saves
Gal 3:27--------baptism>>>>>>>>>>in Christ
Col 2:12,13----baptism>>>>>>>>>>put off the body of sin
Rom 6:4-------baptism>>>>>>>>>>walk in newness of life
1 Cor 12:13----baptized>>>>>>>>>in the body
Jn 3:5----------baptized>>>>>>>>>in the kingdom

 

[elf3]

No, Jesus commanded baptism in both Matthew 28 and in Mark 16.
It is a direct disobedience to the Lord to not obey that command, and then if you pay attention to what I and others have said is that the Lord said He will have mercy on who He will have mercy. That judgment call on salvation is left up to Him, and knowing that our Lord is just He will forgive them when they repent by knowing their heart.

Remember that when one repents on their death bed they are repenting of all their sins done rather knowingly or unknowingly. Psalm 19:12-13 (unknown sins), Psalm 51: 12-14 (restore salvation), Psalm 139:23-24 (leading to salvation),

All sins are forgivable except for blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, and disobedience is a sin, so to disobey a commandment would be a sin. But it can be forgiven if asked. Look at all that a person says before making a call on them.

Everything that precedes from the mouth of the Lord on to do is a command, rather the scripture says the actual word command in it or not. If the Lord says you have to help the poor and needy as He does in Matthew 25, it is a command even though the word command is nowhere in that scripture.

Ok Mr. Ken you show me one passage, just one, that says "those who are not baptized by water are condemned to hell". Just one passage that says that. Not any run around junk but that particular statement.

 

[elf3]

All you two have to do is go through all the many posts in the multiple threads on baptism, and you will see at least a couple of people telling others they don't need to get baptized ( in water ).

You sure the heck won't see eternally-gratefull, DC or I saying this unless you "make us" say that.

 

[kennethcadwell]

for salvation. no

But to say one does not have to. I have never heard anyone say this. period.

Really, I have and plus the Lord said you must be born again through water and spirit.
The water part is not natural birth like some have tried to pass it off as.

Nicodemus said to Him, “How can a man be born when he is old? He cannot enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born, can he?” Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not be amazed that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit.” (3:4–8)

Since Jesus expected Nicodemus to understand this truth (v. 10), it must have been something with which he was familiar. Water and Spirit often refer symbolically in the Old Testament to spiritual renewal and cleansing (cf. Num. 19:17–19; Isa. 4:4; 32:15; 44:3; 55:1; Joel 2:28–29;Zech. 13:1). In one of the most glorious passages in all of Scripture describing Israel’s restoration to the Lord by the new covenant, God said through Ezekiel,
For I will take you from the nations, gather you from all the lands and bring you into your own land. Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from all your idols. Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will be careful to observe My ordinances. (Ezek. 36:24–27)

The example of this in the new testament now is the baptism done in water that was commanded in Mark 16 and Matthew 28, and then the receiving of the Holy Spirit . That Peter and the other apostles continued to do, and Peter showed the baptism in water and receiving was two separate events that came in succession.

Acts 2:38
And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

 

[notuptome]

But what do you do with all the verses that have the order of baptism BEFORE salvation?

Mk 16:16-------baptism>>>>>>>>>>saved
Acts 2:28------baptism>>>>>>>>>>for the remission of sins
Acts 22:16-----baptism>>>>>>>>>>wash away sins
1Pet3:21-------baptism>>>>>>>>>>saves
Gal 3:27--------baptism>>>>>>>>>>in Christ
Col 2:12,13----baptism>>>>>>>>>>put off the body of sin
Rom 6:4-------baptism>>>>>>>>>>walk in newness of life
1 Cor 12:13----baptized>>>>>>>>>in the body
Jn 3:5----------baptized>>>>>>>>>in the kingdom

You may cut and paste this another 500 times and it will still be wrong. You do not have a credible exegesis of the verses you post. You totally disregard the context of these verses and you slaughter the application of these verses.

Does saved by grace mean anything to you?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[SeaBass]

No quite correct. It says we are saved by grace and it is a gift of God. Water baptism has nothing to do with salvation. You are adding to God word. I wonder if you have considered what God said about that? Rev 22:18 I won't get dogmatic but it is an interesting question.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Eph 2:8 "For by grace are ye saved through faith..."

Does not say saved by "grace alone" so faith has a part in salvation also. But even still:

Eph 2:8------grace>>>>>>>>saves
1Pet3:21---baptism>>>>>>saves

Receiving God's grace is CONDITIONAL requiring baptism as much as receiving God's grace requires one to believe, repent and confess.

If receiving God's grace were unconditional, then ALL men would unconditionally be saved, Tts 2:11.

 

[SeaBass]

You may cut and paste this another 500 times and it will still be wrong. You do not have a credible exegesis of the verses you post. You totally disregard the context of these verses and you slaughter the application of these verses.

Does saved by grace mean anything to you?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

So are you denying the order of these verses put baptism BEFORE salvation?

Mk 16:16-------baptism>>>>>>>>>>saved
Acts 2:28------baptism>>>>>>>>>>for the remission of sins
Acts 22:16-----baptism>>>>>>>>>>wash away sins
1Pet3:21-------baptism>>>>>>>>>>saves
Gal 3:27--------baptism>>>>>>>>>>in Christ
Col 2:12,13----baptism>>>>>>>>>>put off the body of sin
Rom 6:4-------baptism>>>>>>>>>>walk in newness of life
1 Cor 12:13----baptized>>>>>>>>>in the body
Jn 3:5----------baptized>>>>>>>>>in the kingdom