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K
The law that Hebrews and Galatians is talking about that we are not under, and Colossians says has been blotted out is the mosaic laws. Not God's moral laws, for His moral laws still apply as Lord Jesus made clearly known by saying not one of them will be done away with tell all things pass away. He was referring to the 10 commandments because they contained God's moral laws in them, and the two main commandments of love for Him and others.
He is not saying you have to be completely without sin, He is saying you can no longer live in willful sin that controls your life to where you obey it instead of Him.
Faith working in love, and obeying His commands do to my love for Him.
K
That is because I don't make those decisions on salvation, the Lord does.
But just because the Lord Jesus who is Lord over all things can and will have mercy on those on their death bed, does not give us a free reign to be disobedient to His commands when we have the chance to do them.
Apostle Paul makes this very clear, when he says now that we are under grace do not use grace as a freedom to sin. He said this because he knows the dangers willful sin has on a believer, and he warns believers over and over again about sin. And disobedience to the Lord is a sin, so if He tells you to do something and you have the chance to do but you don't. You disobeyed Him in sin. Disobedience is listed in the bible as unbelief.
K
I mean no disrespect to you good sir, but I'd also like to share my thoughts on the subject. You say I'm legalistic, but does not that very word imply one who goes by law? And whose law does it refer to? Isn't it God's law/covenant? (respectfully speaking). For example, if God says in 2 Thesalonians 1:8 that He will punish those who know not God and obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ, would it be legalistic of me to say that we must obey the gospel, if someone says you just have to know God?
My thoughts are, good sir, that 1 Corinthians 15 says that the gospel is the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ. The fact that He died, was buried, and rose again are all facts. How then do you obey a fact? It appears to me that you obey it by doing the same. I believe that you die to self, are buried in the watery grave of baptism, and are raised a new creature alive with the Holy Spirit. Romans 6:3 says that when we are baptized we are buried with Christ so that just as He was raised from the dead, we too will live a new life.
Would you agree that the gospel saves us? How then would it make sense that baptism saves us (1 peter 3:21) if baptism is not the gospel? Baptism is our reenactment of the gospel- which wouldn't work if Christ hadn't done it first. In Luke 12:50 Jesus said He had a baptism to undergo when referring to His death. Baptism is how we join Him in His death where He shed His blood that washes away sin.
Admitting, or dying to our ability to save ourselves is the proper attitude, but it is not what saves us. Many people think that baptism is a work on our part, but it is a spiritual work, not a physical one. We obey the gospel, but God does the work, not us. And what work does He do during baptism? He performs a circumsision of the heart WHEN we are buried with Him in baptism according to Colossians 2:11,12. If we are saved before baptism, wouldnt that mean that baptism does not save? And if that's the case, wouldnt that make God out to be a liar when He says in 1Peter 3:21 that baptism does saves us?
...with all due respect
My thoughts are, good sir, that 1 Corinthians 15 says that the gospel is the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ. The fact that He died, was buried, and rose again are all facts. How then do you obey a fact? It appears to me that you obey it by doing the same. I believe that you die to self, are buried in the watery grave of baptism, and are raised a new creature alive with the Holy Spirit. Romans 6:3 says that when we are baptized we are buried with Christ so that just as He was raised from the dead, we too will live a new life.
Would you agree that the gospel saves us? How then would it make sense that baptism saves us (1 peter 3:21) if baptism is not the gospel? Baptism is our reenactment of the gospel- which wouldn't work if Christ hadn't done it first. In Luke 12:50 Jesus said He had a baptism to undergo when referring to His death. Baptism is how we join Him in His death where He shed His blood that washes away sin.
Admitting, or dying to our ability to save ourselves is the proper attitude, but it is not what saves us. Many people think that baptism is a work on our part, but it is a spiritual work, not a physical one. We obey the gospel, but God does the work, not us. And what work does He do during baptism? He performs a circumsision of the heart WHEN we are buried with Him in baptism according to Colossians 2:11,12. If we are saved before baptism, wouldnt that mean that baptism does not save? And if that's the case, wouldnt that make God out to be a liar when He says in 1Peter 3:21 that baptism does saves us?
...with all due respect
E
Then by your two statements here you CANNOT tell someone they must be baptized in order to have salvation. Following God's commands under the new covenant are as such...love God first love others second.
Main reason...we are NEVER told anywhere in Scripture that our salvation rests upon baptism. But we are told our salvation rests upon faith in Jesus in many places throughout Scripture. Only the blood of Christ can make us as righteous before God. Not good works not baptism ONLY the blood of Christ.
Main reason...we are NEVER told anywhere in Scripture that our salvation rests upon baptism. But we are told our salvation rests upon faith in Jesus in many places throughout Scripture. Only the blood of Christ can make us as righteous before God. Not good works not baptism ONLY the blood of Christ.
Brother, Why are you so adamant about a Christian being baptized by water? You think if a Christian has the opportunity to be baptized by water that they should. OK, I think most Christians understand the symbolism of it as the believer being washed clean by the blood of Christ. Please, can you not cease and desist with this topic and move on to something else?
K
Yes our salvation rest on our faith in Jesus, and Jesus says that those who have faith/believe in Him are those that hear and do His teachings and commands. He commanded baptism, and you can not say you follow the greatest commandment to love Him with all your heart, soul, and mind if you disobey to follow His other commandments.
Hince why James also said faith without works is dead, if your faith does not have spiritual works of love resulting in repentance, confession, and baptism it is a dead faith.
Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, and mind; Love your neighbor as yourself are not the only two commands given by our Lord Jesus. On top of that you can not obey these two commands if you throw out the rest of what the Lord said to do, for He said those who love Him will obey all that He taught.
K
That would be the issue then, you have the wrong outlook on baptism ( in water ) that was commanded by the Lord in Mark 16:16 and Matthew 28's great commission. Anything done in love in our lives that the Lord commanded is a spiritual work, for they are for our spiritual growth.
If baptism was nonessential then it would not have been commanded by the Lord and still carried out by the apostles as we can see they did in the book of Acts and the epistles. Then on top of that the bible would not have made a point to show those who came before us, under the old covenant were baptized also.....
1 Corinthians 10:1-2
For I do not want you to be unaware, brothers, that our fathers were all under the cloud, and all passed through the sea, and all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea
The cloud here is the symbolism for spirit, and the sea for water, they were baptized in water and spirit.
We have the same baptism still, we are buried in Christ in the water ( die to our sins ) and raised in the spirit ( given the guidance of the Holy Spirit ).
If baptism was nonessential then it would not have been commanded by the Lord and still carried out by the apostles as we can see they did in the book of Acts and the epistles. Then on top of that the bible would not have made a point to show those who came before us, under the old covenant were baptized also.....
1 Corinthians 10:1-2
For I do not want you to be unaware, brothers, that our fathers were all under the cloud, and all passed through the sea, and all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea
The cloud here is the symbolism for spirit, and the sea for water, they were baptized in water and spirit.
We have the same baptism still, we are buried in Christ in the water ( die to our sins ) and raised in the spirit ( given the guidance of the Holy Spirit ).
4567890Acts 2:38 says nothing about water whatsoever. Every Christian is Spirit baptized when He trusts Christ as Savior. The context of Acts 2 is the Baptism of the Spirit.
Water baptism is a human work, thus it cannot save.
For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, not of works lest anyone should boast. (Eph 2).
The abundance of passages offering salvation merely for believing, trusting Christ, having faith (without any baptism mentioned), proves that water baptism is not essential to salvation. There are too many such passages even to fit in one post on this forum.
Believe on the Lord Jesus, and you shall be saved.
Such expressions as "whosoever believes," anyone, everyone who believes; rule out as impossible any essential addition to believing as man's responsibility in salvation.
If you have been trusting in water, making it an idol, you are urged to repent of that sin and trust the Lord Jesus as only & sufficient Savior now.
Water baptism is a human work, thus it cannot save.
For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, not of works lest anyone should boast. (Eph 2).
The abundance of passages offering salvation merely for believing, trusting Christ, having faith (without any baptism mentioned), proves that water baptism is not essential to salvation. There are too many such passages even to fit in one post on this forum.
Believe on the Lord Jesus, and you shall be saved.
Such expressions as "whosoever believes," anyone, everyone who believes; rule out as impossible any essential addition to believing as man's responsibility in salvation.
If you have been trusting in water, making it an idol, you are urged to repent of that sin and trust the Lord Jesus as only & sufficient Savior now.
E
lol. you got that out of that passage? wow.
so tell us, How is believing in the word of God and looking up at the serpent that was lifted up by moses have anything to do with baptism.
Jesus told nicodemous he was a teacher of the law, and he should know what being born of water and spirit means. He told his, just as the serpent was lifted up, so will the son of man be lifted up. that ALL who believe should be given eternal life (born again)
so please. Can you tell us HOW Nicodemus would have read baptism into this?
so tell us, How is believing in the word of God and looking up at the serpent that was lifted up by moses have anything to do with baptism.
Jesus told nicodemous he was a teacher of the law, and he should know what being born of water and spirit means. He told his, just as the serpent was lifted up, so will the son of man be lifted up. that ALL who believe should be given eternal life (born again)
so please. Can you tell us HOW Nicodemus would have read baptism into this?
E
Oh he did not?
14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. 21 But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God.”
John 6: [SUP]35 [/SUP]And Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst.
[SUP]50 [/SUP]This is the bread which comes down from heaven, that one may eat of it and not die. [SUP]51 [/SUP]I am the living bread which came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever; and the bread that I shall give is My flesh, which I shall give for the life of the world.”
[SUP]54 [/SUP]Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 4:
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Jesus answered and said to her, “If you knew the gift of God, and who it is who says to you, ‘Give Me a drink,’ you would have asked Him, and He would have given you living water.”
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Jesus answered and said to her, “Whoever drinks of this water will thirst again, [SUP]14 [/SUP]but whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him will never thirst. But the water that I shall give him will become in him a fountain of water springing up into everlasting life.”
Jesus spoke of eternal salvation all throughout his ministry, there is so much more..
1. You do not get into the kingdom UNTIL YOU ARE SAVED. thus your whole argument is flawed!
2. Jesus spoke of how one gets into the kingdom (see the passages I posted above)
3. Baptism of the HS is what saves you, John prophesied it, Jesus mentions it, and the apostles witnessed it. Paul preached in it.
4. Jesus did not need to be saved, how dare you say he who knew no sin needed to be baptized to be saved, He was baptized to be shown to the world. it is the reason john was sent to baptize to begin with, to introduce the one who would remove the sin of the world.
Your trying to replace the baptism of God with the baptism of men, THAT IS BLASPHEMY! that is no different than trying to say Jesus, who did all his miracles through the power of the HS, does it under the power of beelzebub. And as jesus told them, you risk committing the unpardonable sin.
14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. 21 But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God.”
John 6: [SUP]35 [/SUP]And Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst.
[SUP]50 [/SUP]This is the bread which comes down from heaven, that one may eat of it and not die. [SUP]51 [/SUP]I am the living bread which came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever; and the bread that I shall give is My flesh, which I shall give for the life of the world.”
[SUP]54 [/SUP]Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 4:
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Jesus answered and said to her, “If you knew the gift of God, and who it is who says to you, ‘Give Me a drink,’ you would have asked Him, and He would have given you living water.”
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Jesus answered and said to her, “Whoever drinks of this water will thirst again, [SUP]14 [/SUP]but whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him will never thirst. But the water that I shall give him will become in him a fountain of water springing up into everlasting life.”
Jesus spoke of eternal salvation all throughout his ministry, there is so much more..
1. You do not get into the kingdom UNTIL YOU ARE SAVED. thus your whole argument is flawed!
2. Jesus spoke of how one gets into the kingdom (see the passages I posted above)
3. Baptism of the HS is what saves you, John prophesied it, Jesus mentions it, and the apostles witnessed it. Paul preached in it.
4. Jesus did not need to be saved, how dare you say he who knew no sin needed to be baptized to be saved, He was baptized to be shown to the world. it is the reason john was sent to baptize to begin with, to introduce the one who would remove the sin of the world.
Your trying to replace the baptism of God with the baptism of men, THAT IS BLASPHEMY! that is no different than trying to say Jesus, who did all his miracles through the power of the HS, does it under the power of beelzebub. And as jesus told them, you risk committing the unpardonable sin.
E
Paul said to believe. Justified by FAITH only, Saved by FAITH only
Jesus said to believe - Whoever believes HAS eternal life.
Peter said to believe. - Those who BELIEVED were baptized (they were already saved the moment they believed)
You teaching a gospel of works. your no better than the pharisees, and your gospel will save no one.
Jesus said to believe - Whoever believes HAS eternal life.
Peter said to believe. - Those who BELIEVED were baptized (they were already saved the moment they believed)
You teaching a gospel of works. your no better than the pharisees, and your gospel will save no one.
E
so we love god if we stick ourselves under a set of rules and regulations, and this causes us to do good? Since when, it did not help the jews, It did not help the people before the jews (who had Gods moral law written in their heart see romans 1)
It does not even help any child, who places themselves under their fathers rules, UNLESS the father acts is a certain way.
again..
a child who obeys his father only for fear of punishment and banishment from his family (being unadopted as a child of God thus losing salvation), is not obeying out of love, he is obeying out of self preservation and fear.
a child who obeys out of love has a father who proves his love by loving him or her when they sin against him, lovingly chasten them, and proves they have his unconditional love. this child will do everything in his power to obey his parent, because he loves and respects his father (because his father PROVED his love to the child first)
Again, we love ONLY because he first loved us.
It does not even help any child, who places themselves under their fathers rules, UNLESS the father acts is a certain way.
again..
a child who obeys his father only for fear of punishment and banishment from his family (being unadopted as a child of God thus losing salvation), is not obeying out of love, he is obeying out of self preservation and fear.
a child who obeys out of love has a father who proves his love by loving him or her when they sin against him, lovingly chasten them, and proves they have his unconditional love. this child will do everything in his power to obey his parent, because he loves and respects his father (because his father PROVED his love to the child first)
Again, we love ONLY because he first loved us.