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M
The law is the Law "every jot and tittle" "all things written in the Book of the law" To tke the law into parts you want to keep and parts you don't is to break and dishonor the law...
Ro 7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.
6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
7 ¶ What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
There is none "moral" no not one... THIS IS JUST SELF-RIGHTEOUSNES wrapped up in a new name
Ro 7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.
6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
7 ¶ What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
There is none "moral" no not one... THIS IS JUST SELF-RIGHTEOUSNES wrapped up in a new name
M
Now Jesus said "not one Jot or tittle would pass from the law til it was all fulfilled" ..then He said I did not come to destroy the law but to "fulfill" .... Now either He fulfilled it all or none of it! Also the "moral" aspects are fulfilled in us who walk in faith and love...but we are not under the law of Moses...anypart of it...we are under the law of Christ.
John the Baptist's marching order: Luke 1:76-79 (KJV)
[SUP]76 [/SUP] And thou, child, shalt be called the prophet of the Highest: for thou shalt go before the face of the Lord to prepare his ways;
[SUP]77 [/SUP] To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins,
[SUP]78 [/SUP] Through the tender mercy of our God; whereby the dayspring from on high hath visited us,
[SUP]79 [/SUP] To give light to them that sit in darkness and in the shadow of death, to guide our feet into the way of peace.
John was sent to bring knowledge. He preached repentance as required for remission of sin. People confessed their sins and were water baptized. But confessing sins doesn't remit them. They confessed, in position to receive remission from Christ.
Matthew 26:28 (KJV)
[SUP]28 [/SUP] For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
Water baptism only affords the opportunity to testify of one's confessing sin and repenting of sin. Without repenting one goes no further with God. Next the blood of Jesus cleanses, remits, us of sin after repenting of sin. Water can't do that.
Connect the dots.
Acts 2:38 (KJV)
[SUP]38 [/SUP] Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
What baptism could possibly accomplish remission of sins?
Being washed by the blood of Jesus.
Washed in His blood! That's Jesus' baptism, which makes us eligible for the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Our marching orders:
Luke 24:46-49 (KJV)
[SUP]46 [/SUP] And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:
[SUP]47 [/SUP] And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
[SUP]48 [/SUP] And ye are witnesses of these things.
[SUP]49 [/SUP] And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.
One last thing that has been avoided over and over here. I asked why Jesus didn't take up John's ministry of baptizing people in water. Not one instance is on record. What? What to do? Love Jesus' preaching, believe it, then have to go get baptized by John? No. John was in prison. So who? What disciples carried on water baptism on a regular basis like John did?
From the time of John the Baptist's beheading until Pentecost there is a gap in water baptism, Jesus not offering it. Why? Jesus was revealed, the mission of John fulfilled. The crowds followed Jesus. People had the same opportunity face to face with the Lord Jesus to confess and repent, but still have to wait for remission (forgiveness, deliverance) of their sins by His shed blood.
It is that shed blood that saves us. Everything up to that leads to salvation.
Wonder why Paul avoided water baptizing believers?
1 Corinthians 1:12-18 (KJV)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.
[SUP]13 [/SUP] Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?
[SUP]14 [/SUP] I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;
[SUP]15 [/SUP] Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name.
[SUP]16 [/SUP] And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other.
[SUP]17 [/SUP] For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
[SUP]76 [/SUP] And thou, child, shalt be called the prophet of the Highest: for thou shalt go before the face of the Lord to prepare his ways;
[SUP]77 [/SUP] To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins,
[SUP]78 [/SUP] Through the tender mercy of our God; whereby the dayspring from on high hath visited us,
[SUP]79 [/SUP] To give light to them that sit in darkness and in the shadow of death, to guide our feet into the way of peace.
John was sent to bring knowledge. He preached repentance as required for remission of sin. People confessed their sins and were water baptized. But confessing sins doesn't remit them. They confessed, in position to receive remission from Christ.
Matthew 26:28 (KJV)
[SUP]28 [/SUP] For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
Water baptism only affords the opportunity to testify of one's confessing sin and repenting of sin. Without repenting one goes no further with God. Next the blood of Jesus cleanses, remits, us of sin after repenting of sin. Water can't do that.
Connect the dots.
Acts 2:38 (KJV)
[SUP]38 [/SUP] Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
What baptism could possibly accomplish remission of sins?
Being washed by the blood of Jesus.
Washed in His blood! That's Jesus' baptism, which makes us eligible for the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Our marching orders:
Luke 24:46-49 (KJV)
[SUP]46 [/SUP] And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:
[SUP]47 [/SUP] And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
[SUP]48 [/SUP] And ye are witnesses of these things.
[SUP]49 [/SUP] And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.
One last thing that has been avoided over and over here. I asked why Jesus didn't take up John's ministry of baptizing people in water. Not one instance is on record. What? What to do? Love Jesus' preaching, believe it, then have to go get baptized by John? No. John was in prison. So who? What disciples carried on water baptism on a regular basis like John did?
From the time of John the Baptist's beheading until Pentecost there is a gap in water baptism, Jesus not offering it. Why? Jesus was revealed, the mission of John fulfilled. The crowds followed Jesus. People had the same opportunity face to face with the Lord Jesus to confess and repent, but still have to wait for remission (forgiveness, deliverance) of their sins by His shed blood.
It is that shed blood that saves us. Everything up to that leads to salvation.
Wonder why Paul avoided water baptizing believers?
1 Corinthians 1:12-18 (KJV)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.
[SUP]13 [/SUP] Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?
[SUP]14 [/SUP] I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;
[SUP]15 [/SUP] Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name.
[SUP]16 [/SUP] And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other.
[SUP]17 [/SUP] For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
M
What the written Code represented was the Spirit The Spirit is the "law written upon our heart" Now the "righteousness" we see in the law is fulfilled in us through the Spirit of God working in us...This manifest simply as "love" Love don't steal , lie cheat or commit perversions...Love rest in the work of Christ... ONLY love keeps Gods law...Those who judge others by a standard they cannot and do not keep cannot know the royal law...which does not judge by the flesh but by the Spirit
E
Yes, it is what they do not understand, ANYTHING done out of self is sin, Not just the ten, and even the ten are basic, as they include so much within them.
We can not love others 24/7 as Christ did, he is the only one who could ever do this. Thus we can not be sinless 24/7.
The problem with th elawyers is they look at the letter. And they say, I do not do this, I do not do that, I I I (in everything) and they think they are righteous, when they do not even understand, just saying the word I to puff oneself up is sin, and in Gods eyes, is breaking the law, and makes us guilty of the law, And makes us worthy of death.
We can not love others 24/7 as Christ did, he is the only one who could ever do this. Thus we can not be sinless 24/7.
The problem with th elawyers is they look at the letter. And they say, I do not do this, I do not do that, I I I (in everything) and they think they are righteous, when they do not even understand, just saying the word I to puff oneself up is sin, and in Gods eyes, is breaking the law, and makes us guilty of the law, And makes us worthy of death.
E
Paul is not using "baptism" in 1 Cor 10:1-2 as a proof of "baptism for salvation" but as a comparison between the Corinthians and the Israelites.
Verse 1: "ALL our fathers", "ALL passed through" "ALL were baptized into Moses". Now read verse 5 "But with most of them God was not well pleased, for their bodies were scattered in the wilderness." So ALL of Israel went through the Exodus but not ALL of them continued following God. So this would actually be used as proof against "baptism for salvation". For though they were "ALL baptized into Moses"(verse 2) "most of them...we're scattered"(verse 5). So this is a warning essentially saying "just because you were baptized do not be fooled that your salvation is secure".
Not only that but in verse 2 they were "all baptized into Moses" they were not baptized into God. Moses was the leader who they followed out of Egypt. This is comparing how our "water baptism" is a public confession of our faith in Christ but does not secure our salvation.
Verse 1: "ALL our fathers", "ALL passed through" "ALL were baptized into Moses". Now read verse 5 "But with most of them God was not well pleased, for their bodies were scattered in the wilderness." So ALL of Israel went through the Exodus but not ALL of them continued following God. So this would actually be used as proof against "baptism for salvation". For though they were "ALL baptized into Moses"(verse 2) "most of them...we're scattered"(verse 5). So this is a warning essentially saying "just because you were baptized do not be fooled that your salvation is secure".
Not only that but in verse 2 they were "all baptized into Moses" they were not baptized into God. Moses was the leader who they followed out of Egypt. This is comparing how our "water baptism" is a public confession of our faith in Christ but does not secure our salvation.
E
Their problem is they do not understand what the greek word baptizo means, Not what the passage says,
It plainly says they were baptized INTO MOSES, with moses as the head, and they followed him.
We are BAPTIZED into Christ, with Christ as the head.
No greek speaking person who read those woulds would have even thought about water baptism,
J
.... sigh..... those who sought the kingdom of Yhvh(God) , they all eagerly repented, with right heart, and eagerly were immersed by John, then later by Jesus' disciples. those today who want to follow Jesus, they do the same. those who don't want to follow Jesus, they go to the mall instead, shopping.
E
sigh,,,,,,
all those people were saved by faith, not by getting immersed by John or Jesus disciples. or anyone else..
we are saved the same way today, as was all people from the beginning of time.
we should all be thankfull God did not command us to do like he did the OT, and demand we get circumcised (for those of us whose parents did not do it when we are kids) and instead, took another symbol (baptism) which is not so painful, and all people can do. but they are symbols, that is all. It is the circumcision/baptism of God which saves.. we go get immersed in water to make a public proclamation.
if we can;t do that basic thing, then I doubt you ever had faith to begin with. but it does not save!
all those people were saved by faith, not by getting immersed by John or Jesus disciples. or anyone else..
we are saved the same way today, as was all people from the beginning of time.
we should all be thankfull God did not command us to do like he did the OT, and demand we get circumcised (for those of us whose parents did not do it when we are kids) and instead, took another symbol (baptism) which is not so painful, and all people can do. but they are symbols, that is all. It is the circumcision/baptism of God which saves.. we go get immersed in water to make a public proclamation.
if we can;t do that basic thing, then I doubt you ever had faith to begin with. but it does not save!
J
since you started the thread, i went and searched.... (for your post).
did everyone forget what Scripture says? it is so simple. there is no argument in the ekklesia. (by ekklesia, i do not mean the source of the following quote), but it is apropro:
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]Why was Cornelius baptized in water?
After Cornelius (the first Gentile convert) was baptized with the Holy Spirit (Acts 10:44,45; 11:15,16), Peter said: "Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have? And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord…" (Acts 10:47,48). This passage identifies baptism "in the name of the Lord" as being in water. The Samaritans had been baptized "in the name of the Lord" but had not received a miraculous gift of the Spirit, therefore it was not Holy Spirit baptism (Acts 8:14-16). Jews on Pentecost were told to repent and be baptized "in the name of Jesus Christ" for the remission of sins (2:38). Therefore, baptism "in the name of Christ" is in water and for the remission of sins.
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did everyone forget what Scripture says? it is so simple. there is no argument in the ekklesia. (by ekklesia, i do not mean the source of the following quote), but it is apropro:
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]Why was Cornelius baptized in water?
After Cornelius (the first Gentile convert) was baptized with the Holy Spirit (Acts 10:44,45; 11:15,16), Peter said: "Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have? And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord…" (Acts 10:47,48). This passage identifies baptism "in the name of the Lord" as being in water. The Samaritans had been baptized "in the name of the Lord" but had not received a miraculous gift of the Spirit, therefore it was not Holy Spirit baptism (Acts 8:14-16). Jews on Pentecost were told to repent and be baptized "in the name of Jesus Christ" for the remission of sins (2:38). Therefore, baptism "in the name of Christ" is in water and for the remission of sins.
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E
so tell us, Daniel, King David, Abraham, Noah, And all the great OT saints.
How were they saved, since they were not "baptized to wash their sins"?
Tell us, Why did John the baptist make it clear. His baptism in water was due to repentance, but the baptism we need to look for is the baptism of Jesus, who will baptize WITH the HS and Fire.
do we listen to John or your church?
How were they saved, since they were not "baptized to wash their sins"?
Tell us, Why did John the baptist make it clear. His baptism in water was due to repentance, but the baptism we need to look for is the baptism of Jesus, who will baptize WITH the HS and Fire.
do we listen to John or your church?
Johns baptism was a baptism unto repentance. It prepared the disciples to receive Messiah when Jesus revealed Himself. Johns baptism as all water baptism had no effect towards salvation except that it gave indication of a right heart attitude toward Jehovah God. It was if you will an admission of mans imperfection toward God, mans need of a Savior. It declared that men must be saved because they are unclean.
John declared that the baptism that Jesus brought was infinitely better and was unto eternal life a baptism of fire symbolizing the Holy Spirit which no man can baptize with but only God.
This is why the usage of the Greek baptizo is critical. It is a baptism that immerses and does not bring back up. One is immersed in the Holy Spirit forever. Not to be confused with filling of the Holy Spirit which occurs after the baptism unto eternal life. Water baptism is seen in bapto not in baptizo. There is also an immersion in the word of God and doctrine where baptizo is used but again the intent is not short term but a long duration, life changing if you will.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
John declared that the baptism that Jesus brought was infinitely better and was unto eternal life a baptism of fire symbolizing the Holy Spirit which no man can baptize with but only God.
This is why the usage of the Greek baptizo is critical. It is a baptism that immerses and does not bring back up. One is immersed in the Holy Spirit forever. Not to be confused with filling of the Holy Spirit which occurs after the baptism unto eternal life. Water baptism is seen in bapto not in baptizo. There is also an immersion in the word of God and doctrine where baptizo is used but again the intent is not short term but a long duration, life changing if you will.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
E
I like how John puts it. He explains baptism with the HS and fire quite detailed, and in a way these farmers could understand.
Matt 3: [SUP]2 [/SUP]His winnowing fan is in His hand, and He will thoroughly clean out His threshing floor, and gather His wheat into the barn; but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.”
God separates the people. and will bring them into his barn (heaven) by the baptism of the HS. Those who reject him, and his gospel. he will burn with a fire that shall never be quenched.
As you said, it is a permanent thing, In the ancient greek texts, when a garment was baptized, its state changed forever, it would not go back to the same color it was before without being baptized again to that color. (in the greek culture a baptizer or baptist, was a person who dyed, or colored garments) . So in Jesus baptism, those separated from the chaff (those born of God) are separated permanently, those who end up getting baptized into fire (hell) will be their permanently.
Everyone will be baptised by Jesus, it is up to us to chose which baptism we desire.
Matt 3: [SUP]2 [/SUP]His winnowing fan is in His hand, and He will thoroughly clean out His threshing floor, and gather His wheat into the barn; but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.”
God separates the people. and will bring them into his barn (heaven) by the baptism of the HS. Those who reject him, and his gospel. he will burn with a fire that shall never be quenched.
As you said, it is a permanent thing, In the ancient greek texts, when a garment was baptized, its state changed forever, it would not go back to the same color it was before without being baptized again to that color. (in the greek culture a baptizer or baptist, was a person who dyed, or colored garments) . So in Jesus baptism, those separated from the chaff (those born of God) are separated permanently, those who end up getting baptized into fire (hell) will be their permanently.
Everyone will be baptised by Jesus, it is up to us to chose which baptism we desire.
E
I do not know if they did it publically or not. But it would be painful all the same, I assisted a doctor in the surgical clinic I worked in when I was in the US navy. I would not wish that pain on ANYONE!
which of course makes me laugh, To think their pain and suffering (extreme) had no bearing on their salvation, Yet us getting wet, has a bearing on ours, is just laughable.
which of course makes me laugh, To think their pain and suffering (extreme) had no bearing on their salvation, Yet us getting wet, has a bearing on ours, is just laughable.
