Does Acts 2:38 mean we have to be baptized to get into Heaven? -Debate

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K

kennethcadwell

Guest
#381
#381
Mitspa said:
We know where saved because we know we have His spirit..and because we believe the gospel of Jesus Christ

1Jo 4:13 Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit.

"Know ye not that the Spirit of God dwells in you"


And somebody changed that scripture you quoted...was it you or a bad translation?

Joh 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him
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This chapter goes along with everything else, and can not be used apart by itself for reasoning.
For even in this chapter it says that only if you love others, and confess Him as your Lord does His spirit abide in you. If you still have hatred toward other people, then the truth ( spirit ) is not in you. We must love Him with all our heart, soul, and mind, love our neighbor as ourselves, and love our enemies. Only then does His spirit abide in you, for the scripture makes it clear that if you say you love Him, but have hatred to others then you are a liar and the truth is not in you.
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#382
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,396
113
#382
Jabberjaw said:
You would make a good cheer leader, nothing more.
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That's alright, at least I wont stand and be judged for preaching a false gospel that leads to hell like you......!

So what is your last name..Campbellite, Catholic or Daughter of a Catholic!
 
A

AVoice

Guest
#383
#383
Mitspa said:
Who is saying to throw baptism out...the discussion has been whether baptism is done because we are saved or if salvation by faith is void apart from water baptism? The correct answer is baptism is done in faith of the salvation we have in Christ :)
Obedience is not a matter of Judgment to those who know they are saved its a matter of faith and love and obedience is from the heart. I want to know who in the world goes and gets baptized before they know they are saved and have been born-again of the Spirit of God? What do some do wait until they are baptized before they believe in Christ? "let me hold my breath while I go under and believe" ? That's not how salvation works!
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What you are saying does not conform to what we see in Acts. In Acts they got baptized in conjunction with faith and repentance IN ORDER TO BE SAVED as Peter's words clearly answered their question what they must do to be saved. I understand the OSAS crowd persuades people they are completely saved BEFORE baptism, but that just shows how far modern Christianity has strayed. Saying a prayer does not save the person. They need to personally come to prayer before God and repent and seek the Lord. Seeking him involves baptism after repentance. Baptism is part of obeying Christ just like repentance is part of obeying the Gospel message. Baptism is like your signature to the deal. You may be given the goods by a generous and trustworthy distributor, let's say, as he anticipates you will surely do your side of the agreement and sign your name. He would be shocked if after appropriate time you did not sign. So likewise God anticipates our obedience and may give the Holy Spirit even before baptism. But being led into all truth means coming to understand that getting baptized is ranked right alongside repentance. Not getting baptized is rebellion, even though the rebel may have reasonings whereby he is persuaded that he has no obligation to be baptized. Sinning thinking that it pleases God. Satan's trap.
To refuse to be baptized is like refusing to sign your name on an agreement to receive a huge inheritance. It is a very big sin. The wages of sin is death. Teaching that baptism is not a requirement along with repentance is a sin. Often done in ignorance by those who are the victims of well intending but deceived "Christians".
Grace reigns through righteousness, so the person who has repented and received the Holy Ghost even before baptism will quench the Spirit by not yielding to the promptings of the Spirit to obey the command to become baptized. Grace will begin to no longer be allowed to reign as the result of that refusal to obey. Other sins will creep in and begin to dominate as grace is frustrated by the disobedience to the command to become baptized.
Even Jesus got baptized. We are supposed to be his followers.
 
M

Mitspa

Guest
#384
#384
kennethcadwell said:
This chapter goes along with everything else, and can not be used apart by itself for reasoning.
For even in this chapter it says that only if you love others, and confess Him as your Lord does His spirit abide in you. If you still have hatred toward other people, then the truth ( spirit ) is not in you. We must love Him with all our heart, soul, and mind, love our neighbor as ourselves, and love our enemies. Only then does His spirit abide in you, for the scripture makes it clear that if you say you love Him, but have hatred to others then you are a liar and the truth is not in you.
Click to expand...
So whats your point? The words are still very clear and very true...if a believer has the witness of the Spirit they will have the love of God also...its not a work of the flesh its a work of the Spirit that causes us to keep the commandment to love others. Which fulfills ALL the law ...by the way :)
 
Jabberjaw

Jabberjaw

Senior Member
#385
Mar 21, 2014
1,039
7
38
#385
dcontroversal said:
That's alright, at least I wont stand and be judged for preaching a false gospel that leads to hell like you......!

So what is your last name..Campbellite, Catholic or Daughter of a Catholic!
Click to expand...
lol, Christian... and Christians don't call others names.
 
K

kennethcadwell

Guest
#386
#386
Mitspa said:
We know where saved because we know we have His spirit..and because we believe the gospel of Jesus Christ

1Jo 4:13 Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit.

"Know ye not that the Spirit of God dwells in you"


And somebody changed that scripture you quoted...was it you or a bad translation?

Joh 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him
Click to expand...

No that is not a bad translation, and the reason it was changed to say do not obey instead of believeth not in the ESV was because people want to always cancel out how Jesus said that those who believe in Him are those who hear and do what He said, not just hearers only ( belief only ).
Lord Jesus more than once says that those headed to salvation will obey and keep His commands, those who do not obey and keep His commands do not have salvation.
 
Jabberjaw

Jabberjaw

Senior Member
#387
Mar 21, 2014
1,039
7
38
#387
Mitspa said:
So whats your point? The words are still very clear and very true...if a believer has the witness of the Spirit they will have the love of God also...its not a work of the flesh its a work of the Spirit that causes us to keep the commandment to love others. Which fulfills ALL the law ...by the way :)
Click to expand...
John 14:15 (NKJV)
15 "If you love Me, keep My commandments.

All of them
 
M

Mitspa

Guest
#388
#388
AVoice said:
What you are saying does not conform to what we see in Acts. In Acts they got baptized in conjunction with faith and repentance IN ORDER TO BE SAVED as Peter's words clearly answered their question what they must do to be saved. I understand the OSAS crowd persuades people they are completely saved BEFORE baptism, but that just shows how far modern Christianity has strayed. Saying a prayer does not save the person. They need to personally come to prayer before God and repent and seek the Lord. Seeking him involves baptism after repentance. Baptism is part of obeying Christ just like repentance is part of obeying the Gospel message. Baptism is like your signature to the deal. You may be given the goods by a generous and trustworthy distributor, let's say, as he anticipates you will surely do your side of the agreement and sign your name. He would be shocked if after appropriate time you did not sign. So likewise God anticipates our obedience and may give the Holy Spirit even before baptism. But being led into all truth means coming to understand that getting baptized is ranked right alongside repentance. Not getting baptized is rebellion, even though the rebel may have reasonings whereby he is persuaded that he has no obligation to be baptized. Sinning thinking that it pleases God. Satan's trap.
To refuse to be baptized is like refusing to sign your name on an agreement to receive a huge inheritance. It is a very big sin. The wages of sin is death. Teaching that baptism is not a requirement along with repentance is a sin. Often done in ignorance by those who are the victims of well intending but deceived "Christians".
Grace reigns through righteousness, so the person who has repented and received the Holy Ghost even before baptism will quench the Spirit by not yielding to the promptings of the Spirit to obey the command to become baptized. Grace will begin to no longer be allowed to reign as the result of that refusal to obey. Other sins will creep in and begin to dominate as grace is frustrated by the disobedience to the command to become baptized.
Even Jesus got baptized. We are supposed to be his followers.
Click to expand...
There more than just the book of Acts to consider...there is the gospel that Paul preached which is the only true gospel...now obedience is because we are saved and not to be saved... And no one is saying "don't be baptized" we are saying be baptized because you are saved and do it in faith not as a dead work.
 
E

elf3

Guest
#389
#389
OK here's one for all of you.

We all agree that Jesus was baptized. (At least we should because it's recorded in Scripture)

Tell me...was Jesus baptized for salvation or remission of sin?
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#390
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,396
113
#390
Jabberjaw said:
lol, Christian... and Christians don't call others names.
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Maybe you should study more as the best Christian EVER called the Pharisees hypocrites, white washed coffins filled with dead men's bones and blind leaders of the blind......!
 
M

Mitspa

Guest
#391
#391
Jabberjaw said:
John 14:15 (NKJV)
15 "If you love Me, keep My commandments.

All of them
Click to expand...
Joh 15:12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.

1Jo 3:23 ¶ And this is his commandment, (1) That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and (2) love one another, as he gave us commandment.
The law is not of faith....nothing profits but faith working by love...that's the gospel
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#392
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,396
113
#392
elf3 said:
OK here's one for all of you.

We all agree that Jesus was baptized. (At least we should because it's recorded in Scripture)

Tell me...was Jesus baptized for salvation or remission of sin?
Click to expand...
No doubt and will add the JESUS was the SON of God by BIRTH and not immersion!
 
K

kennethcadwell

Guest
#393
#393
dcontroversal said:
KENNETH...YOU STILL DID NOT ANSWER MY QUESTION...........

Originally Posted by dcontroversal
Kenneth you did not answer my question...here I will post again...and do please answer the question with scripture and how long before you loose your salvation after you sin!

Originally Posted by dcontroversal
So, how long do you have Kenneth before you are separated and lost again after you sin....1 second, 10 seconds, 1 minute, 5 minutes, maybe a day?

ANSWER THE QUESTION IN BOLD...........
Click to expand...

I did answer you question, but I guess you missed it.
The key is in repentance and asking forgiveness of that sin/sins when you do them.
No repentance and no asking forgiveness then you are lost and in servitude to that sin, and say for example if you repented of sins back in 1985, that repentance does not cover a sin you do today and the days to come. You still have to confess and ask for forgiveness of those.
 
M

Mitspa

Guest
#394
#394
kennethcadwell said:
No that is not a bad translation, and the reason it was changed to say do not obey instead of believeth not in the ESV was because people want to always cancel out how Jesus said that those who believe in Him are those who hear and do what He said, not just hearers only ( belief only ).
Lord Jesus more than once says that those headed to salvation will obey and keep His commands, those who do not obey and keep His commands do not have salvation.
Click to expand...
Look I have studied Greek for many years and read biblical Greek ..the text reads "believe not" and that translation has changed the truth of Gods Word...I suggest you get a translation that don't change the bible to what they "think" it should say.
 
K

kennethcadwell

Guest
#395
#395
elf3 said:
OK here's one for all of you.

We all agree that Jesus was baptized. (At least we should because it's recorded in Scripture)

Tell me...was Jesus baptized for salvation or remission of sin?
Click to expand...
And also you should add that when Jesus went to John to be baptized, immersed in water, He said this has to be done !!!
 
A

AVoice

Guest
#396
#396
Mitspa said:
There more than just the book of Acts to consider...there is the gospel that Paul preached which is the only true gospel...now obedience is because we are saved and not to be saved... And no one is saying "don't be baptized" we are saying be baptized because you are saved and do it in faith not as a dead work.
Click to expand...
You are assuming that what Peter taught was not true. It is very plain language. The question what must be done in order to be saved. Faith, repentance and baptism. Baptism is ranked right alongside faith and repentance. All three are stated as things to do IN ORDER TO BE SAVED. To persuade people they are saved before baptism is a sin. But then again there are lots of things modern Christianity does that are sin.
We see in Mark 16 as well baptism a clear requirement for salvation.
Anyone not baptized who has been a believer for a while needs to understand they are in disobedience to God by not being obedient to the NT command to be baptized.
 
M

Mitspa

Guest
#397
#397
kennethcadwell said:
And also you should add that when Jesus went to John to be baptized, immersed in water, He said this has to be done !!!
Click to expand...
He also had to go to the cross...and we do to, in type...
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#398
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,396
113
#398
kennethcadwell said:
I did answer you question, but I guess you missed it.
The key is in repentance and asking forgiveness of that sin/sins when you do them.
No repentance and no asking forgiveness then you are lost and in servitude to that sin, and say for example if you repented of sins back in 1985, that repentance does not cover a sin you do today and the days to come. You still have to confess and ask for forgiveness of those.
Click to expand...
KENNETH...you teach you can loose salvation if you don't repent......answer the question please as you are like a politician tap dancing around the answer....


Originally Posted by dcontroversal
So, how long do you have Kenneth before you are separated and lost again after you sin....1 second, 10 seconds, 1 minute, 5 minutes, maybe a day?


PAY ATTENTION to the words "SO, HOW LONG DO YOU HAVE"
 
Jabberjaw

Jabberjaw

Senior Member
#399
Mar 21, 2014
1,039
7
38
#399
dcontroversal said:
Jabberjaw said:
ol, Christian... and Christians don't call others names.
Click to expand...
Maybe you should study more as the best Christian EVER called the Pharisees hypocrites, white washed coffins filled with dead men's bones and blind leaders of the blind......!
Click to expand...
Pharisees aren't "Christian", Christians don't call Christians names.

Maybe you should study more, Christians are Christians because they follow Christ, Christ said to baptize :

Matthew 28:19-20 (NKJV) [SUP]19 [/SUP] Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, [SUP]20 [/SUP] teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age." Amen.
 
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Mitspa

Guest
#400
#400
AVoice said:
You are assuming that what Peter taught was not true. It is very plain language. The question what must be done in order to be saved. Faith, repentance and baptism. Baptism is ranked right alongside faith and repentance. All three are stated as things to do IN ORDER TO BE SAVED. To persuade people they are saved before baptism is a sin. But then again there are lots of things modern Christianity does that are sin.
We see in Mark 16 as well baptism a clear requirement for salvation.
Anyone not baptized who has been a believer for a while needs to understand they are in disobedience to God by not being obedient to the NT command to be baptized.
Click to expand...
No im saying that Peter had limited understand the of the gospel that was revealed in and through Paul and what Peter says has to be seen through the revelation Paul gives.
 
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