Does Acts 2:38 mean we have to be baptized to get into Heaven? -Debate

[Butch5]

No I was saved and then baptized after I was saved by faith in Him I received His Spirit and was born-again...then I acted according to my faith and the obedience to faith was water baptized ...great day...but I was saved weeks before and had Gods Spirit.

You're opposing Jesus and Peter. Jesus said saved comes after believes and baptized. Peter said, repent and be baptized for the remission of your sins and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. Are you saying they're wrong?

 

[Hizikyah]

Well only the gospel resolves the issues of the law...to look to the law or the Old Covenant and ignore the New is not possible for those who know the gospel of Jesus Christ.

I was just asking about if wickedness or righteousness has effect on if our prayers are heard or not post Messiah Sacrifice...

Proverbs 15:29, "Yahweh is far from the wicked, but He hears the prayer of the righteous."

but what you say here, IDK...

Mattithyah 5:18, "For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

Luke 16:17, "But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one yodh of the Law to fail."

Luke 6:46, "And why call Me; Ruler! Ruler! and do not the things which I say?"

 

[Mitspa]

You're opposing Jesus and Peter. Jesus said saved comes after believes and baptized. Peter said, repent and be baptized for the remission of your sins and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. Are you saying they're wrong?

LoL How am I opposing Jesus and Peter? I believed and was saved (born-again) and a couple weeks later got baptized...thats obedience and I must say I am greatly blessed for without faith its impossible to please God

Or did I wait too long according to your group? How much time did I have according to you guys rules?

 

[Mitspa]

I was just asking about if wickedness or righteousness has effect on if our prayers are heard or not post Messiah Sacrifice...

Proverbs 15:29, "Yahweh is far from the wicked, but He hears the prayer of the righteous."

but what you say here, IDK...

Mattithyah 5:18, "For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

Luke 16:17, "But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one yodh of the Law to fail."

Luke 6:46, "And why call Me; Ruler! Ruler! and do not the things which I say?"

Well Im not under the law...Im righteous by faith in Christ..so not sure what your asking me?

 

[dcontroversal]

LoL How am I opposing Jesus and Peter? I believed and was saved (born-again) and a couple weeks later got baptized...thats obedience and I must say I am greatly blessed for without faith its impossible to please God

Or did I wait too long according to your group? How much time did I have according to you guys rules?

Well as long as you made it within the 30 day allotted allowance.....same thing with sin....when you sin you have 1 day, 2 hours, and 37 seconds to get right or you loose that which has no ability to be lost.......

Obviously being facetious.........

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Why are you teaching about being save in a baptism thread?

Your joking right?

Maybe because people are teaching baptism is essential for one to be saved.

Your the one who opened the door..

by the way, I like how you separated being saved and being baptized.. prety amazing, do you finally agree with what I say?

Well, you see, it's not me who's ignoring Scripture. I accept all of those passages you posted. The problem you have is that you're using them to make a fallacious argument. You're using passages that don't address baptism (which is why they don't mention baptism) to attempt dismiss the necessity of Baptism. That is a logical fallacies, it's an argument from silence.

No. You do not agree with them, unless you agree that baptism is not necessary for those things to be given. which if yuo do, you just destroyed your own argument of the necessity of baptism.

you can't have it both ways

Your argument goes like this, man a argues that a car need an engine to move and man b argues that it doesn't. Man c hears the argument and determines that the car doesn't need wheels to move because neither man say anything about wheels.

your losing it.

You are arguing that in order for the car to run, you must do "this" with the car.

so I argue that your wrong, you do not have to do "this", and prove that the car runs without doing it. And your only argument is that I am arguing about the car running, and not what you think needs to be done.

You need to rethink your arguments, Your not making yourself look very good.

The conclusion drawn by man c is obviously absurd as neither man a nor man b addressed the issue of wheels. Likewise, to take passages of Scripture that are dealing with salvation by faith vs. salvation by works of the Law and conclude from them that baptism isn't necessary is absurd, the passages aren't even addressing the issue of baptism. That is the fallacy.

again, your all mixed up. so much your arguing against reason, and logic.

Your stating to be saved, and born again, one must be baptized.

I used passages which say the total opposite. I do not need to look at baptism verses to prove my point, all I have to prove is one can be saved without being baptized.

so lets see if we can get this back on topic.

Jesus said whoever believes in his death, will never die, never hunger and thirst, live forever, HAS eternal life, and will be risen on the last day, oh, and NEVER LOST.

is this not salvation? if it is not salvation, then what is?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

So prayer and repentance then are also not required since they are something that is assumed must be done to be saved. You better be consistent. If you throw out baptism then you need to throw out any other 'work' as trying to earn salvation, which is assumed to be a sin. So repentance is a sin? So prayer to God in Jesus' name is a sin since it is something done in order to be saved, a work?
"Saved,... not of works", right? Then repentance and prayer are not necessary.

what? Ok now I have heard everything.

Who is saying baptism is a sin??

 

[kennethcadwell]

Kenneth you did not answer my question...here I will post again...and do please answer the question with scripture and how long before you loose your salvation after you sin!

Originally Posted by dcontroversal

So, how long do you have Kenneth before you are separated and lost again after you sin....1 second, 10 seconds, 1 minute, 5 minutes, maybe a day?

Galatians 5 and 6 Paul shows that you can fall from grace by getting entangled back in a yoke of bondage (sin)....
Romans 11:22 Paul says if you do not continue in God's grace you will be cut off.....
Eph. 5: 3-5; 1Cor. 6:9; Gal. 5:19, Rev. 21:6-8 all have lists of sins and say they can not be a part of a believers life, and if you have not repented and turned from doing them you will not have salvation. And Revelation 22:19 says that a person can have their name stricken from the Book of Life, but I know the age old argument that this only applies to Revelation but this is not the only place in the bible where God warned not to add or take away from His word.
1 Corinthians 9:24 Paul says you must walk with self control and not give into indulges (sin) and if you do give into those sins you will be as he put it, disqualified. He was talking to people in Corinth and using the Isthmian Games as an example for they would understand is reasoning by how he worded it.

[h=1]1 Corinthians 15:1-2[/h]15 Now, brothers and sisters, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. 2 By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.

Here Paul says you are saved only if you hold firmly to the word ( endure, and not return to willful sin ). Otherwise your belief was in vain, because you chose to serve your flesh (sin) instead of serve God.
Luke 12:41-46 says that only the one who does the will of Father, and obedient servant that continues to do what was asked of us inherit the kingdom. If you are not obedient you will be given a place in the lake of fire with the unbelievers it says in verse 46.

Hebrews chapter 3 also states in verses 6 and 14 you are only saved if you stand firm/obedient in the Word to the end.
2 Peter 2:20-22 says that if a believer gets caught back up in willful sin again and don't repent then their ending will be that of punishment, not salvation. And even says that their punishment will be worse then if they never even knew the truth, for they willingly turned from the Lord.


[h=3]John 3:36 [/h]Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.


Here we have the Lord Jesus saying that if you do not obey Him you will not have eternal life, but will face God's wrath.

There are many more scriptures that show that we have to stand firm, endure, not return to willful sin to have salvation.
I will simply answer question like this to, all sin is enmity to God and separates you from Him unless you repent and ask forgiveness of it. If you chose to walk the rest of your life never repenting and asking forgiveness of your sins you commit from here on because you think your original repentance at time of conversion is already forgiven. That is not scriptural truth, for many scriptures say believers can still be held accountable for their future sins unless they repent and ask forgiveness of them.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

No, it's just that same old logical fallacy, the argument from silence, that you guys keep using. I figured by now with as many times as I've said it someone would have googled the argument from silence and seen that they were using it

so you have no argument.

thanks.. Thats usually what happens when one is confronted with truth, they have nothing to say so they either walk away and hope someone does not realize. or they make arguments like this, alot of fluff and no action.

So your going to deny all these things jesus PROMISEd to those who have faith in him? come on. lets here you say it, WIll everyone who has faith in Christ receive these things or not?

jesus said they will. why are you disagreeing with him?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I was just asking about if wickedness or righteousness has effect on if our prayers are heard or not post Messiah Sacrifice...

Proverbs 15:29, "Yahweh is far from the wicked, but He hears the prayer of the righteous."

but what you say here, IDK...

Mattithyah 5:18, "For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

Luke 16:17, "But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one yodh of the Law to fail."

Luke 6:46, "And why call Me; Ruler! Ruler! and do not the things which I say?"

who is claiming the law has passed away? certainly not us.

who is saying one can be saved, and not do the things God says (where is their faith) Certainly not us.

if anything, it is the lawyers who claim the law has passed away, because the law claims 100% obedience is required for one to get to heaven, yet the legalist says this is not true.

we believe it was true when moses made this demans, It was true in Christ time, it is true today, and it will be true until the last man who is required to make the choice before this earth is destroyed, it will never pass away.

 

[AVoice]

what? Ok now I have heard everything.

Who is saying baptism is a sin??

If baptism can be thrown out then so can also prayer and repentance. The "not of works" crowd are not consistent. If no works at all are necessary then prayer and repentance can also be denied as what is necessary to do to be saved. When they asked in Acts what they must do to be saved Peter said repent and be baptized. Two things. So you should throw out the repentance part as well if you think you can throw out the baptism part. You are not consistent.

 

[Mitspa]

Who is saying to throw baptism out...the discussion has been whether baptism is done because we are saved or if salvation by faith is void apart from water baptism? The correct answer is baptism is done in faith of the salvation we have in Christ
Obedience is not a matter of Judgment to those who know they are saved its a matter of faith and love and obedience is from the heart. I want to know who in the world goes and gets baptized before they know they are saved and have been born-again of the Spirit of God? What do some do wait until they are baptized before they believe in Christ? "let me hold my breath while I go under and believe" ? That's not how salvation works!

 

[dcontroversal]

Galatians 5 and 6 Paul shows that you can fall from grace by getting entangled back in a yoke of bondage (sin)....
Romans 11:22 Paul says if you do not continue in God's grace you will be cut off.....
Eph. 5: 3-5; 1Cor. 6:9; Gal. 5:19, Rev. 21:6-8 all have lists of sins and say they can not be a part of a believers life, and if you have not repented and turned from doing them you will not have salvation. And Revelation 22:19 says that a person can have their name stricken from the Book of Life, but I know the age old argument that this only applies to Revelation but this is not the only place in the bible where God warned not to add or take away from His word.
1 Corinthians 9:24 Paul says you must walk with self control and not give into indulges (sin) and if you do give into those sins you will be as he put it, disqualified. He was talking to people in Corinth and using the Isthmian Games as an example for they would understand is reasoning by how he worded it.

1 Corinthians 15:1-2

15 Now, brothers and sisters, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. 2 By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.

Here Paul says you are saved only if you hold firmly to the word ( endure, and not return to willful sin ). Otherwise your belief was in vain, because you chose to serve your flesh (sin) instead of serve God.
Luke 12:41-46 says that only the one who does the will of Father, and obedient servant that continues to do what was asked of us inherit the kingdom. If you are not obedient you will be given a place in the lake of fire with the unbelievers it says in verse 46.

Hebrews chapter 3 also states in verses 6 and 14 you are only saved if you stand firm/obedient in the Word to the end.
2 Peter 2:20-22 says that if a believer gets caught back up in willful sin again and don't repent then their ending will be that of punishment, not salvation. And even says that their punishment will be worse then if they never even knew the truth, for they willingly turned from the Lord.


John 3:36

Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.


Here we have the Lord Jesus saying that if you do not obey Him you will not have eternal life, but will face God's wrath.

There are many more scriptures that show that we have to stand firm, endure, not return to willful sin to have salvation.
I will simply answer question like this to, all sin is enmity to God and separates you from Him unless you repent and ask forgiveness of it. If you chose to walk the rest of your life never repenting and asking forgiveness of your sins you commit from here on because you think your original repentance at time of conversion is already forgiven. That is not scriptural truth, for many scriptures say believers can still be held accountable for their future sins unless they repent and ask forgiveness of them.

KENNETH...YOU STILL DID NOT ANSWER MY QUESTION...........

Originally Posted by dcontroversal

Kenneth you did not answer my question...here I will post again...and do please answer the question with scripture and how long before you loose your salvation after you sin!

Originally Posted by dcontroversal

So, how long do you have Kenneth before you are separated and lost again after you sin....1 second, 10 seconds, 1 minute, 5 minutes, maybe a day?

ANSWER THE QUESTION IN BOLD...........

 

[dcontroversal]

Who is saying to throw baptism out...the discussion has been whether baptism is done because we are saved or if salvation by faith is void apart from water baptism? The correct answer is baptism is done in faith of the salvation we have in Christ
Obedience is not a matter of Judgment to those who know they are saved its a matter of faith and love and obedience is from the heart. I want to know who in the world goes and gets baptized before they know they are saved and have been born-again of the Spirit of God? What do some do wait until they are baptized before they believe in Christ? "let me hold my breath while I go under and believe" ? That's not how salvation works!

That is their norm.....they say two things about those who teach salvation correctly as based upon faith dia grace...

1. We say that we do not have to serve God and do any of the works that the bible speaks to (I.E. Good works after salvation)
2. The we teach not to get immersed

Both lies and baseless accusations for sure.........!

 

[elf3]

Acts 2:38 "Then Peter said to them, "Repent and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit". Big verse used for baptism as remission of sins. But is it the "repent" or the "baptism" that saves us?

Look at Peters very next teaching. Acts 3:19 "Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord.". Speaking to the same "type" of people as his teaching in Acts 2:38 Peter leaves out baptism as any part of salvation or remission of sin.

Peters teaching in Acts 10:43 "To Him all the prophets witness that, through His name, whoever believes in Him will receive remission of sins.". Same "type" of people but again Peter leaves out baptism as part of salvation or remission of sins.

We see "repent" or "believe" in 3 out of 3 teachings by Peter. But, we only see baptism in 1 out of 3 teachings by Peter. If baptism was indeed needed for salvation or remission of sins don't you think Peter would have mentioned it each one of these teachings? So by these teachings of Peter what is important for salvation?

Repentance and belief in Christ are the key to salvation not baptism.

Not only this but Peter was present when Jesus gave the "great commission". So why does Peter only mention baptism only once out of three times when mentioning salvation and remission of sins. If baptism was so important to salvation he would have mentioned it every time.

 

[kennethcadwell]

Who is saying to throw baptism out...the discussion has been whether baptism is done because we are saved or if salvation by faith is void apart from water baptism? The correct answer is baptism is done in faith of the salvation we have in Christ
Obedience is not a matter of Judgment to those who know they are saved its a matter of faith and love and obedience is from the heart. I want to know who in the world goes and gets baptized before they know they are saved and have been born-again of the Spirit of God? What do some do wait until they are baptized before they believe in Christ? "let me hold my breath while I go under and believe" ? That's not how salvation works!

The thing is we can have assurance that we are saved by our faith and love in Him, that shows in our obedience to Him.
But to also not be deceived and know that the true salvation does not come tell after we have endured this world while we are in our fleshly bodies.
We follow the commands of the Lord do to love for Him, and that love shows in obedience.
If somebody says that obedience is not needed, then they need to go back to the Lord's words and see that He disagrees with that teaching;

John 3:36
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.

 

[Mitspa]

The thing is we can have assurance that we are saved by our faith and love in Him, that shows in our obedience to Him.
But to also not be deceived and know that the true salvation does not come tell after we have endured this world while we are in our fleshly bodies.
We follow the commands of the Lord do to love for Him, and that love shows in obedience.
If somebody says that obedience is not needed, then they need to go back to the Lord's words and see that He disagrees with that teaching;

John 3:36
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.

We know where saved because we know we have His spirit..and because we believe the gospel of Jesus Christ

1Jo 4:13 Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit.

"Know ye not that the Spirit of God dwells in you"


And somebody changed that scripture you quoted...was it you or a bad translation?

Joh 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him

 

[dcontroversal]

We know where saved because we know we have His spirit..and because we believe the gospel of Jesus Christ

1Jo 4:13 Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit.

"Know ye not that the Spirit of God dwells in you"


And somebody changed that scripture you quoted...was it you or a bad translation?

Joh 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him

The truth is the truth and unfortunately workers and watered down salvation believers will chunk the truth of the above scriptures.....!

 

[elf3]

Paul is not using "baptism" in 1 Cor 10:1-2 as a proof of "baptism for salvation" but as a comparison between the Corinthians and the Israelites.

Verse 1: "ALL our fathers", "ALL passed through" "ALL were baptized into Moses". Now read verse 5 "But with most of them God was not well pleased, for their bodies were scattered in the wilderness." So ALL of Israel went through the Exodus but not ALL of them continued following God. So this would actually be used as proof against "baptism for salvation". For though they were "ALL baptized into Moses"(verse 2) "most of them...we're scattered"(verse 5). So this is a warning essentially saying "just because you were baptized do not be fooled that your salvation is secure".

Not only that but in verse 2 they were "all baptized into Moses" they were not baptized into God. Moses was the leader who they followed out of Egypt. This is comparing how our "water baptism" is a public confession of our faith in Christ but does not secure our salvation.

As far as reposting this...well I figured I had to because I don't think some people read it because this verse has been used since I posted it

 

[Jabberjaw]

The truth is the truth and unfortunately workers and watered down salvation believers will chunk the truth of the above scriptures.....!

You would make a good cheer leader, nothing more.