Does Acts 2:38 mean we have to be baptized to get into Heaven? -Debate

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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#101
#101
Butch5 said:
Because it's a question that only God can answer. There are requirements for one to be saved, if one doesn't meet them all for whatever reason it is up to God to decide. He has given the requirements and has obligated Himself to saved those who meet those requirements. Can people be saved if they don't meet them? I believe they can if there are extenuating circumstances, however, that decision belongs to God.
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then again, How can you explain this passage?

1 John 5:13
These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God.

How can one know they have eternal life with everything you just said, there would be no way possible to know if you did enough for God to save you, you would have to go to your death bed and not know if your saved or not.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#102
#102
Butch5 said:
Salvation isn't a mathematical formula as some try to make it. It is a decision made by God based on certain criteria which He sets. The problem is that some take a verse or two and create a theology by which they try to force God to act. If Christians stopped taking passages of Scripture from their context and looked at it as a whole things would be much clearer.
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yep. and he gave his criteria.

18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
 
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Butch5

Banned
#103
May 2, 2014
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#103
elf3 said:
Then why are you making baptism a necessity if it's God who makes the final decision? My grandfather died without being baptized and without doing any good works. He accepted Jesus as his Lord and Savior but according to your baptism necessity he isn't saved.

Can you not see your "flawed" thinking?
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My thinking isn't flawed. You're basing everything on you're belief that baptism isn't necessary. There are several requirements to be saved, Paul said, whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved, He also said that Jesus became eternal salvation to those who obey Him. Repentance is also necessary for salvation. God has said that He would save the people who met these conditions. What about those who don't meet those conditions, can they be saved? I believe so because God didn't say if you don't meet the conditions you can't be saved. So, those who meet the conditions can be certain that they will be saved. Those who don't can still be saved if God decides to save them. We don't know if someone really believes, only God does.

To take only certain passages that we can fit into our theology and ignore one that don't isn't seeking truth.
 
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Butch5

Banned
#104
May 2, 2014
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#104
eternally-gratefull said:

yep. and he gave his criteria.

18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
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That's correct, the question is, what does it mean to believe in Him?
 
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Butch5

Banned
#105
May 2, 2014
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#105
eternally-gratefull said:

then again, How can you explain this passage?

1 John 5:13
These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God.

How can one know they have eternal life with everything you just said, there would be no way possible to know if you did enough for God to save you, you would have to go to your death bed and not know if your saved or not.
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I explained it in the post, if you meet the requirements you can know.
 
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Butch5

Banned
#106
May 2, 2014
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eternally-gratefull said:
um matt 28 and mark 16 was at the very end of his mission here on earth.

He told many people things during his whole ministry before he gave those commands, who could have died before they heard these commands, did they go to hell because they took jesus at his word. And did not get baptised for salvation?
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You're assuming they weren't baptized yet Scripture says that Jesus baptized more than John, through His disciples.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#107
#107
Butch5 said:
That's correct, the question is, what does it mean to believe in Him?
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what does it mean? it meas you trust him. It means you understand you can not save yourself. he must save you. It means you understand sin separates you from God. and the blood of Jesus has washed you clean. That you agree with God this is true, and understand WHY sin is bad, and trust him to change you from the inside out (producing a changed life) You understand it is better to give than receive, and trust God this is true (thus seek the spirit and not the flesh (self)

what does it not mean? I believe in God, I believe he died. But I do nto believe I am a bad person. so I will continue to live in my sin, Continue to trust self (because I do not trust God) so I will continue to live in sin, Or work to try to save myself. Because I have no faith in myself.

eph 2: 10.. For WE (those saved by grace through faith) are HIS WORKMANSHIP created I CREATED IN CHRIST JESUS for GOOD WORKS
 
1joseph

1joseph

Senior Member
#108
Dec 14, 2014
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#108
Acts 2:38New International Version (NIV)[SUP]38 [/SUP]Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Since Christ appeared all we have to do to be saved by grace is to believe in (baptized in) Jesus Christ, God's own son. Then the Holy Spirit---the great comforter---will come upon you and you will know Him and He will know you.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#109
#109
Butch5 said:
You're assuming they weren't baptized yet Scripture says that Jesus baptized more than John, through His disciples.
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why did John say jesus would baptise with the Holy Spirit? why make a cliam if it is not true? He did not tell the disciples this, or the gentiles in acts ten, He told everyone who came to him to be baptized.. So did John send all those people away believing the messiah would baptize with the Holy Spirit when it was a lie?

Yes they baptized. I am not preaching against baptism, I am preaching against a legalisitc view that water baptism replaces animal sacrifice as a means to have ones sins forgiven.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#110
#110
Butch5 said:
I explained it in the post, if you meet the requirements you can know.
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how? if you can not know if you met the requirments? Not one of you legalists will even state what the total sum of the requirements are.

or are yuo willing to try to show us how good is good enough to be saved?
 
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kennethcadwell

Guest
#111
#111
eternally-gratefull said:
um matt 28 and mark 16 was at the very end of his mission here on earth.

He told many people things during his whole ministry before he gave those commands, who could have died before they heard these commands, did they go to hell because they took jesus at his word. And did not get baptised for salvation?
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If the people died before they heard that command from Him, they died under the old covenant and also His mercy, not under the new covenant that was not official in place tell after He was crucified.
Plus you have to remember that Jesus went down to preach to those in Hades, before He went up to heaven.
 
K

kennethcadwell

Guest
#112
#112
eternally-gratefull said:
why did John say jesus would baptise with the Holy Spirit? why make a cliam if it is not true? He did not tell the disciples this, or the gentiles in acts ten, He told everyone who came to him to be baptized.. So did John send all those people away believing the messiah would baptize with the Holy Spirit when it was a lie?

Yes they baptized. I am not preaching against baptism, I am preaching against a legalisitc view that water baptism replaces animal sacrifice as a means to have ones sins forgiven.
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Saying that Jesus would baptized with the Holy Spirit was a true claim that John made.
The thing is that Jesus is the only one who can baptize us with the Holy Spirit, this does not negate the baptism He commanded the apostles to do. They work together for salvation.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#113
#113
kennethcadwell said:
If the people died before they heard that command from Him, they died under the old covenant and also His mercy,
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So they are under mercy, and we are not.

wow dude are you serious?

not under the new covenant that was not official in place tell after He was crucified.
Plus you have to remember that Jesus went down to preach to those in Hades, before He went up to heaven.
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so the OT were saved by mercy (grace) since we are told flatly no one was ever saved by doing one work of the law. Yet in the NT, we will nto be shown mercy, but have to do work to earn Gods grace.

wow, again do you think when you say these things?

I know I know. you will try to say this is not what your saying, But you are.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#114
#114
kennethcadwell said:
Saying that Jesus would baptized with the Holy Spirit was a true claim that John made.
The thing is that Jesus is the only one who can baptize us with the Holy Spirit, this does not negate the baptism He commanded the apostles to do. They work together for salvation.
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oh. so there are two baptisms. not one?

Ephesians 4:5
one Lord, one faith, one baptism;

So which one is it? water or HS? it can not be both.
 
B

Butch5

Banned
#115
May 2, 2014
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#115
eternally-gratefull said:
well of course Jesus did not baptist in water, John the baptist said that was not why he was sent, he was sent to baptist with the Holy Spirit. He baptized me with the HS as promised, has be baptized you?

As for paul He was sent to give the gospel. you have paul preaching and having people come to him, yet walking away without finishing the job (if baptism was not essential)

Why do you want to replece the work of God with the work of men? Can I ask you this without you being upset? it is a logical and sincere question.
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It's not the work of men. God is the one who commanded it. Jesus told the apostles to go to the nations and make disciples. They were to do that but teaching them and baptizing them. He has given water baptism as a method for those who believe to have their sins remitted.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#116
#116
Butch5 said:
It's not the work of men. God is the one who commanded it.
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God commanded the jews be circumcized to. And claimed that was the work of men and not God.. but baptism is different? come on man, think..

Jesus told the apostles to go to the nations and make disciples. They were to do that but teaching them and baptizing them. He has given water baptism as a method for those who believe to have their sins remitted.
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yes he did, Make disciple (get them saved) and baptise THEM. (they were already saved)
 
K

kennethcadwell

Guest
#117
#117
eternally-gratefull said:
So they are under mercy, and we are not.

wow dude are you serious?



so the OT were saved by mercy (grace) since we are told flatly no one was ever saved by doing one work of the law. Yet in the NT, we will nto be shown mercy, but have to do work to earn Gods grace.

wow, again do you think when you say these things?

I know I know. you will try to say this is not what your saying, But you are.
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We are under mercy to, but we are under a different set of commandments to follow under the new covenant then the old covenant. The new covenant was not fully in place tell Jesus crucifixion, so to say a person before Jesus died had the same standards as a person after is not correct.
Plus like I said Jesus said I will have mercy on who I will have mercy, but like Paul said just because a person who comes to Him in the last minutes of their life is forgiven by His mercy and grace. We are not to use that to our advantage and say we don't need to do it when we have the chance to.

For if you don't do something He commanded when you had the chance to, and you stand before Him to give an account of your life; I am sure He will ask why did you not obey my command, and on turn tell others they didn't need to also?
 
K

kennethcadwell

Guest
#118
#118
eternally-gratefull said:
God commanded the jews be circumcized to. And claimed that was the work of men and not God.. but baptism is different? come on man, think..



yes he did, Make disciple (get them saved) and baptise THEM. (they were already saved)
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Circumcision is still commanded, it only is not of the flesh in the new covenant but of the heart......
 
B

Butch5

Banned
#119
May 2, 2014
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#119
eternally-gratefull said:
how? if you can not know if you met the requirments? Not one of you legalists will even state what the total sum of the requirements are.

or are yuo willing to try to show us how good is good enough to be saved?
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The requirements are in the Scriptures. It's because people try to make salvation into a mathematical formula that they run into problems. It's not a number, that's the fallacy of the beard, how many hairs does it take to make a beard? If you have 20 hairs do you have a beard? What about 1000, 10,000? At what point does it become a beard. It's more about a heart attitude. God looks at the Heart. He gives different things to different people. In the parable of the talents the two servants who put their masters talents to work and gained more were rewarded, the one who did nothing was said to be evil and cast off.
 
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Butch5

Banned
#120
May 2, 2014
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#120
eternally-gratefull said:
God commanded the jews be circumcized to. And claimed that was the work of men and not God.. but baptism is different? come on man, think..
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Think? That's what I want to say to you. Think about the Scriptures that speak of baptism. Why try to prove that baptism isn't necessary with passages that don't speak about baptism?



yes he did, Make disciple (get them saved) and baptise THEM. (they were already saved)
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He didn't say anything about getting them saved, He said, make disciples. A disciple is one who follows the teachings of another. So, to be a disciple one must be baptized.
 
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