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K
I didn't circle around the question, I gave you a direct answer and Paul clearly explains the kind of thinking that I mentioned in my response in his letter to the Romans.
Plus if you say it has to be a yes or no answer then you take away the Lord's ability when He said He will have mercy on who He will have mercy on. I don't condemn people for not being baptized if they were not given the opportunity, I leave the decision making to the Lord. But I don't sit back either and let people tell others that our Lord's command are not to be followed.
J
noting that in the NT when someone rejected the Messiah and did not accept Him, is it not written that it was because they had not been immersed like the others had been, the others who accepted the Messiah ? (in one or more of the Gospel accounts).
and , there is no where that it says the thief was not immersed before he was arrested, is there ? i.e. while it is not written that he was immersed in Yahushua's Name,
it is still patently possible that he was, and would not thereby contradict any Scripture.....
and , there is no where that it says the thief was not immersed before he was arrested, is there ? i.e. while it is not written that he was immersed in Yahushua's Name,
it is still patently possible that he was, and would not thereby contradict any Scripture.....
J
first, second and third, who is immersed ? and who is forgiven ? and who is constantly full of joy and power today? (as they were in the NT)
and,
one verse here describes about being saved, but it is not alone - no, "every Word that proceeds from the mouth of Elohim" , not by bread alone, remember?
meaning >
there's a lot said in Yhvh's Word about the true ekklesia immersed in yahushua's Name..... a lot that describes several details about them individually and as a group. these are all the Word of Yhvh, and are ALL TRUE. not one drops to the ground....
1st John is simple and clear as well, and 1st Peter, and Ephesians, and Thessalonians, and Revelation ---
about the false, the untrue, the ones who are not written (any more?) in the Lambs Book of LIFE....
the ones who persecute the true ones, who put us to death (yes, today, even in the usa, and around the world for centuries)...
and,
one verse here describes about being saved, but it is not alone - no, "every Word that proceeds from the mouth of Elohim" , not by bread alone, remember?
meaning >
there's a lot said in Yhvh's Word about the true ekklesia immersed in yahushua's Name..... a lot that describes several details about them individually and as a group. these are all the Word of Yhvh, and are ALL TRUE. not one drops to the ground....
1st John is simple and clear as well, and 1st Peter, and Ephesians, and Thessalonians, and Revelation ---
about the false, the untrue, the ones who are not written (any more?) in the Lambs Book of LIFE....
the ones who persecute the true ones, who put us to death (yes, today, even in the usa, and around the world for centuries)...
Over and over again. The same people try to convince the same people that they are right. Please tell me, when this thread has moved into history, will anyone have changed their interpretation of the scripture. There are four things, the day of the Sabbath, works to salvation or salvation to works, baptism, and young or old earth, that will be debated until the Lord returns (sometimes I think some will argue with him then) (maybe five, pre, mid, or post-trib). If you don't believe what I am stating, I suggest that you spend some time just reading the threads that are in the archives of this forum on the subjects.
I have to take a week off beginning tomorrow. I pray that during this time that every one will take a little time and pray that we all will unite in Christ and remove the influence of Satan on our lives.
May God bless you and your families.
Love in Christ
Billy
I have to take a week off beginning tomorrow. I pray that during this time that every one will take a little time and pray that we all will unite in Christ and remove the influence of Satan on our lives.
May God bless you and your families.
Love in Christ
Billy
hi, gents. 
just popped in to say Christians should avail themselves of the blessing of baptism.
and if for some reason you physically cannot...
you're still saved! God did it...He won't 'undo' it.
God does all the saving.
the only thing we bring to our salvation is the sin that makes it necessary.
carry on.
just popped in to say Christians should avail themselves of the blessing of baptism.
and if for some reason you physically cannot...
you're still saved! God did it...He won't 'undo' it.
God does all the saving.
the only thing we bring to our salvation is the sin that makes it necessary.
carry on.
I, myself, at 15 years old, accepted Christ as my Savior. I went weeping down to the alter during an alter call. I was alone at first, as I knelt with my eyes closed, saying, "I'm so sorry," over and over. Then I felt hands on my shoulders and other voices praying to God, asking Him to, "...help this young man, help him to know you." Then, one of the voices leaned close to my ear and asked if I wanted to say the sinner's prayer. I said, "Yes." The voice said, "Repeat after me or use your own words." I went on to tell Jesus that I believed in Him, and that I believed He is the Son of God and that He died for my sins. Choking the words out through tears I asked Him to forgive me of my sins and to come into my heart and be my Savior and the Lord of my life. And He did save me, right then and there. I felt as if a great burden had been lifted off of my shoulders. I was relieved and felt a great joy well-up inside me. When I stood I felt physically weak, and as I walked back up the isle to my seat I felt like my feet weren't touching the ground. This walking-on-air feeling lasted three days---at home, at school, where ever I was.
For several years I thought everyone had the same experience I did, when saved. It is my understanding from talking with other believers over the years that some, when saved, didn't feel anything in particular. My wife is one of them. And they all are just as saved through Christ as I am.
I have never ran into another believer who's salvation experience was similar to mine. I don't know why my salvation experience was the way it was. And it doesn't matter why it happened that way. For God knows each of us intimately---knows our hearts, our thoughts, our fears, etc.---and deals with us individually in the ways that we need.
Thank you Father for your gentle, diligent love. I ask, humbly, that your will be done on this site, and that your Spirit will change lives as words are read of your mercy and grace, and may it all be done to glorify and honor you. In Jesus' name I pray. Amen.
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No, there are not a number of Gospels, are you not getting my point? It's not a formula. If you're married or have kids is everything a formula? Does you wife or kids have to do everything exactly by the formula you set to be your wife and/or kids? If your wife goes right when you say left is she no longer your wife? Trying to turn the faith into a formula has caused so much much confusion. It's one of the reasons for the debates on, baptism, works, etc. Christians want everything to be formula. Well, 1+1=2 that's it that's the only way a person can be saved. The flip side of that is to reduce everything to the lowest common denominator which is only believe, nothing else. Either way it's
M
I quoted the scriptures Paul wrote himself and Paul clearly did not teach that baptism saves, but that the gospel HE RECIEVED saves and that baptism was a picture or likeness of the saving work of the gospel. I think some of you fail to understand that the gospel was received by Paul as He was given revelation by the Lord. Now for Paul to say I was called to preach the Gospel and not baptize ...then clearly He understood that its faith that saves and baptism is an act of obedience to that faith. None of these scriptures contradict that view at all but only support that view.
E
yet you teach a number of gospels.
some get saved without being baptized. some get saved by being baptized.
Scripture says there are two ways to heaven. the law and grace.
since the aw condemns everyone because all have sinned, it means the only thing left is grace. Grace is free. or else it is not grace.
some get saved without being baptized. some get saved by being baptized.
Scripture says there are two ways to heaven. the law and grace.
since the aw condemns everyone because all have sinned, it means the only thing left is grace. Grace is free. or else it is not grace.
E
It is obvious we have two groups of people set in their "ways" as far as baptism goes. Both sides using scripture to "proof" their argument.
But one thing we can all agree on is Jesus, God's grace, God's mercy and God's Sovereignty.
Let's leave it at the atoning blood of Christ for without that...we have nothing either way.
But one thing we can all agree on is Jesus, God's grace, God's mercy and God's Sovereignty.
Let's leave it at the atoning blood of Christ for without that...we have nothing either way.
1 Cor 1:17 Paul did not say baptism (noun) is not necessary or not part of the gospel. This verse is a "not-but" elliptical statement where Paul put emphasis on preaching over baptizing but not to the exclusion of baptizing for Paul DID baptize even though he said Christ sent him not to baptize.
(Another example of a not-but ellipsis is 1Pet 3:3,4 "Whose adorning let it not be that outward adorning of plaiting the hair, and of wearing of gold, or of putting on of apparel; But let it be the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price." Peter is not saying wives should literally NOT put on clothing but Peter is putting more emphasis on the inward adorning over the outward adorning but not to the exclusion of the outward adorning.)
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Acts 22:16 Saul/Paul was baptized himself to wash away sin. Cannot be saved unwashed.
1 Cor 1:12,13; Rom 6:3-5; Col 2:12-14; Gal 3:27 all show the necessity of baptism that Paul preached.
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1 Cor 1:12 "Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ."
There was division at Corinth. Instead of all at the Corinthian church following Christ some were following after the one that baptized them saying I am of Paul or I am of Apollos or I am of Cephas. To heal the division at Corinth Paul asked the following rhetorical question in verse 13:
1 Cor 1:13 "Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?"
Verse 13 stated in the positive Paul is saying "Christ is not divided! Christ was crucified for you, you were baptized in the name of Christ"
Paul's point is that if you claim to be "of" someone then two things must be true:
1) that someone must be crucified for you
2) you must be baptized in the someone's name
Since these two things are only true of Christ, then the Corinthians cannot be "of" Paul or "of" Apollos or "of" Cephas but all must be "of" Christ. So if you (and anyone else) claim to be "of" Christ then BOTH must be true, 1) Christ must be crucified for you and you 2) must be baptized in the name of Christ. One cannot be "of" Christ if he has not been baptized in the name of Christ.
Heb 2:9 Christ was (1) crucified for every man. So why isn't every man saved?
For every man will not (2) be baptized in the name of Christ. BOTH must be true to be "of" Christ.
(Another example of a not-but ellipsis is 1Pet 3:3,4 "Whose adorning let it not be that outward adorning of plaiting the hair, and of wearing of gold, or of putting on of apparel; But let it be the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price." Peter is not saying wives should literally NOT put on clothing but Peter is putting more emphasis on the inward adorning over the outward adorning but not to the exclusion of the outward adorning.)
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Acts 22:16 Saul/Paul was baptized himself to wash away sin. Cannot be saved unwashed.
1 Cor 1:12,13; Rom 6:3-5; Col 2:12-14; Gal 3:27 all show the necessity of baptism that Paul preached.
--------------------------------------------------------------
1 Cor 1:12 "Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ."
There was division at Corinth. Instead of all at the Corinthian church following Christ some were following after the one that baptized them saying I am of Paul or I am of Apollos or I am of Cephas. To heal the division at Corinth Paul asked the following rhetorical question in verse 13:
1 Cor 1:13 "Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?"
Verse 13 stated in the positive Paul is saying "Christ is not divided! Christ was crucified for you, you were baptized in the name of Christ"
Paul's point is that if you claim to be "of" someone then two things must be true:
1) that someone must be crucified for you
2) you must be baptized in the someone's name
Since these two things are only true of Christ, then the Corinthians cannot be "of" Paul or "of" Apollos or "of" Cephas but all must be "of" Christ. So if you (and anyone else) claim to be "of" Christ then BOTH must be true, 1) Christ must be crucified for you and you 2) must be baptized in the name of Christ. One cannot be "of" Christ if he has not been baptized in the name of Christ.
Heb 2:9 Christ was (1) crucified for every man. So why isn't every man saved?
For every man will not (2) be baptized in the name of Christ. BOTH must be true to be "of" Christ.
P
In Acts 10 Peter was preaching at the house of Cornelius
While he was preaching, the Holy Ghost fell and people began to speak in other tongues.
A simple reading of Romans 8:9 shows that if you have the Spirit of God in you, you belong to God.
There is a problem here if you have to be baptized to be saved, there is no way these people could have the Spirit of God in them without being saved. Remember, Peter commanded them to be baptized afterwards. This plainly shows that they were saved before being baptized, it also shows that it is important to still be baptized after being saved.
God Bless
While he was preaching, the Holy Ghost fell and people began to speak in other tongues.
A simple reading of Romans 8:9 shows that if you have the Spirit of God in you, you belong to God.
There is a problem here if you have to be baptized to be saved, there is no way these people could have the Spirit of God in them without being saved. Remember, Peter commanded them to be baptized afterwards. This plainly shows that they were saved before being baptized, it also shows that it is important to still be baptized after being saved.
God Bless