Does Acts 2:38 mean we have to be baptized to get into Heaven? -Debate

[SeaBass]

by sending his son to die on the cross..

As john said, behold the lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world.

Anything else is a false gospel.

Christ died for every man, Heb 2:9 but every man will not be saved. Therefore Christ dying on the cross does not mean automatic salvation for anyone. Christ's death provided a means for man to be saved and that means is water baptism.

 

[SeaBass]

In Acts 10 Peter was preaching at the house of Cornelius
While he was preaching, the Holy Ghost fell and people began to speak in other tongues.
A simple reading of Romans 8:9 shows that if you have the Spirit of God in you, you belong to God.
There is a problem here if you have to be baptized to be saved, there is no way these people could have the Spirit of God in them without being saved. Remember, Peter commanded them to be baptized afterwards. This plainly shows that they were saved before being baptized, it also shows that it is important to still be baptized after being saved.
God Bless

If what you post above is true, am I lost since I have not baptized with the Holy Ghost?

 

[Mitspa]

1 Cor 1:17 Paul did not say baptism (noun) is not necessary or not part of the gospel. This verse is a "not-but" elliptical statement where Paul put emphasis on preaching over baptizing but not to the exclusion of baptizing for Paul DID baptize even though he said Christ sent him not to baptize.

(Another example of a not-but ellipsis is 1Pet 3:3,4 "Whose adorning let it not be that outward adorning of plaiting the hair, and of wearing of gold, or of putting on of apparel; But let it be the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price." Peter is not saying wives should literally NOT put on clothing but Peter is putting more emphasis on the inward adorning over the outward adorning but not to the exclusion of the outward adorning.)

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Acts 22:16 Saul/Paul was baptized himself to wash away sin. Cannot be saved unwashed.
1 Cor 1:12,13; Rom 6:3-5; Col 2:12-14; Gal 3:27 all show the necessity of baptism that Paul preached.

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1 Cor 1:12 "Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ."

There was division at Corinth. Instead of all at the Corinthian church following Christ some were following after the one that baptized them saying I am of Paul or I am of Apollos or I am of Cephas. To heal the division at Corinth Paul asked the following rhetorical question in verse 13:

1 Cor 1:13 "Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?"

Verse 13 stated in the positive Paul is saying "Christ is not divided! Christ was crucified for you, you were baptized in the name of Christ"

Paul's point is that if you claim to be "of" someone then two things must be true:

1) that someone must be crucified for you
2) you must be baptized in the someone's name

Since these two things are only true of Christ, then the Corinthians cannot be "of" Paul or "of" Apollos or "of" Cephas but all must be "of" Christ. So if you (and anyone else) claim to be "of" Christ then BOTH must be true, 1) Christ must be crucified for you and you 2) must be baptized in the name of Christ. One cannot be "of" Christ if he has not been baptized in the name of Christ.

Heb 2:9 Christ was (1) crucified for every man. So why isn't every man saved?
For every man will not (2) be baptized in the name of Christ. BOTH must be true to be "of" Christ.

So here we must hash and divide Pauls words to make them match your understanding of salvation but in Mark we must accept in absolute terms that baptism is included with believe as a condition to salvation? No! One has to look at the whole counsel of the scriptures and reason within is truth. Baptism should be one of our first acts of obedience to faith, but its an act of faith based on the salvation we have in believing the gospel. To twist that around and make it a work unto salvation is to miss the gospel and the picture of baptism altogether.

 

[Kerry]

So here we must hash and divide Pauls words to make them match your understanding of salvation but in Mark we must accept in absolute terms that baptism is included with believe as a condition to salvation? No! One has to look at the whole counsel of the scriptures and reason within is truth. Baptism should be one of our first acts of obedience to faith, but its an act of faith based on the salvation we have in believing the gospel. To twist that around and make it a work unto salvation is to miss the gospel and the picture of baptism altogether.

Which one of the twelve were baptized and give biblical reference please and Paul was not one of the twelve.

 

[Ella85]

It's just a debate/discussion to see other peoples point of view, not to stir up trouble. Isn't this a "Bible Discussion Forum"?

He was joking with you because he knows that this could easily escalate into a heated discussion.

Yes you are correct. SAVED BY FAITH.

Jesus the Bread of Life
26Jesus answered them and said, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Ye seek me, not because ye saw the miracles, but because ye did eat of the loaves, and were filled. 27Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed. 28Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? 29Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent. 30They said therefore unto him, What sign shewest thou then, that we may see, and believe thee? what dost thou work? 31Our fathers did eat manna in the desert; as it is written, He gave them bread from heaven to eat. 32Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven. 33For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world. 34Then said they unto him, Lord, evermore give us this bread.

 

[Mitspa]

Which one of the twelve were baptized and give biblical reference please and Paul was not one of the twelve.

Not sure what that has to do with a discussion on the issue? but we can assume they all was baptized. Do you challenge the epistles and the authority they describe given to Paul? 12 is a number Paul was Gods chosen Apostle to bring forth the truth of the gospel.

 

[john832]

Which one of the twelve were baptized and give biblical reference please and Paul was not one of the twelve.

Which one of the twelve were not baptized and give biblical reference please.

 

[john832]

Not sure what that has to do with a discussion on the issue? but we can assume they all was baptized. Do you challenge the epistles and the authority they describe given to Paul? 12 is a number Paul was Gods chosen Apostle to bring forth the truth of the gospel.

No, Paul was the chosen Apostle to bring the gospel to the Gentiles. James, Peter, John, Jude and Luke also recorded the gospel after the death, burial and resurrection of Christ.

 

[Mitspa]

No, Paul was the chosen Apostle to bring the gospel to the Gentiles. James, Peter, John, Jude and Luke also recorded the gospel after the death, burial and resurrection of Christ.

All these had to submit to Pauls revelation of the gospel or else the Word of God is not true...and we know its true "all men will be judged according to my gospel" "if any man preach another gospel, let them be accursed" Paul Himself wrote how he rebuked Peter and the others, in effect, for straying from the truth of the gospel delivered to him.

 

[jeff_peacemkr]

yet he said it was carnal to say "i am of paul, i am of apollos, i am of kephas(peter), or even (i think) i am of christ - as if there were several separated pieces of the body"
which, of course, we all grew up in carnal churches (or surrounded by them), (and no, carnal is not okay, it is not acceptable)
so
the revelation of truth these days is slow going.....

 

[Mitspa]

yet he said it was carnal to say "i am of paul, i am of apollos, i am of kephas(peter), or even (i think) i am of christ - as if there were several separated pieces of the body"
which, of course, we all grew up in carnal churches (or surrounded by them), (and no, carnal is not okay, it is not acceptable)
so
the revelation of truth these days is slow going.....

True in our fellowship, but when it comes to sound doctrine, the scriptures themselves place Paul and his epistles at the core of the truth of the gospel. And even as Paul wrote these things we see the others yield to his revelation.

 

[john832]

All these had to submit to Pauls revelation of the gospel or else the Word of God is not true...and we know its true "all men will be judged according to my gospel" "if any man preach another gospel, let them be accursed" Paul Himself wrote how he rebuked Peter and the others, in effect, for straying from the truth of the gospel delivered to him.

Submit to Paul's revelation of the gospel?

Act 15:2 When therefore Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and disputation with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas, and certain other of them, should go up to Jerusalem unto the apostles and elders about this question.

Who sought the approval of whom here? And what was the final decision and who made it?

Act 15:13 And after they had held their peace, James answered, saying, Men and brethren, hearken unto me:
.
Act 15:19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:

Paul was used to write much of the N.T. and he was a deeply converted man but to say the gospel of Paul is ridiculous...

Rom 1:1 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,

Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

Rom 15:16 That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost.

And on and on it goes. Paul knew Who's gospel he taught and knew that the other Apostles were just as enlightened as he was.

 

[Mitspa]

Submit to Paul's revelation of the gospel?

Act 15:2 When therefore Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and disputation with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas, and certain other of them, should go up to Jerusalem unto the apostles and elders about this question.

Who sought the approval of whom here? And what was the final decision and who made it?

Act 15:13 And after they had held their peace, James answered, saying, Men and brethren, hearken unto me:
.
Act 15:19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:

Paul was used to write much of the N.T. and he was a deeply converted man but to say the gospel of Paul is ridiculous...

Rom 1:1 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,

Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

Rom 15:16 That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost.

And on and on it goes. Paul knew Who's gospel he taught and knew that the other Apostles were just as enlightened as he was.

Surly you have read beyond these passages?

Ro 2:16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel

Ga 1:11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

Ga 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.


Ga 2:14 But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?

Clearly the scriptures give Paul a supreme place in the truth of the gospel.

 

[jeff_peacemkr]

and every one of them, Yahushua, the apostles, john, peter, james, paul, timothy, all the disciples,

honored Yhvh's Word, without exception. "clean by the word" "abide in the word and the word abide in you" as well.... ...

the living word, not the letter of the law which brings death, but the law of the spirit of life in christ jesus , all honoring Yhvh/Torah

 

[Mitspa]

and every one of them, Yahushua, the apostles, john, peter, james, paul, timothy, all the disciples,

honored Yhvh's Word, without exception. "clean by the word" "abide in the word and the word abide in you" as well.... ...

the living word, not the letter of the law which brings death, but the law of the spirit of life in christ jesus , all honoring Yhvh/Torah

Of course Jesus is and was the Word

 

[oldhermit]

No, Paul was the chosen Apostle to bring the gospel to the Gentiles. James, Peter, John, Jude and Luke also recorded the gospel after the death, burial and resurrection of Christ.

Yes, but not exclusively. "But the Lord said to him, Go, for he is a chosen instrument of Mine, to bear My name before the Gentiles and kings and the sons of Israel;" Acts 9:15. He bore the same gospel to each group.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Christ died for every man, Heb 2:9 but every man will not be saved. Therefore Christ dying on the cross does not mean automatic salvation for anyone. Christ's death provided a means for man to be saved and that means is water baptism.

Then everyone in the OT is headed to hell because he paid for their sin too.

 

[SeaBass]

So here we must hash and divide Pauls words to make them match your understanding of salvation but in Mark we must accept in absolute terms that baptism is included with believe as a condition to salvation? No! One has to look at the whole counsel of the scriptures and reason within is truth. Baptism should be one of our first acts of obedience to faith, but its an act of faith based on the salvation we have in believing the gospel. To twist that around and make it a work unto salvation is to miss the gospel and the picture of baptism altogether.

But you are not "hashing and dividing" Paul's words????

You claim the verse literally means Christ did not send Paul to baptized but Paul DID baptized. Did he disobey Christ by baptizing? In Christ's great commission (Mt 28:19,20; Mk 16:15,16) Christ commissioned all His disciples, which includes Paul, to go, teach and baptized. Why would Christ contradict Himself by sending disciples to teach and baptized then tell them not to baptize? Including the fact Paul did baptize, there evidently is some twisting of Paul's words in 1 Cor 1:17.

In healing the division at Corinth to make them all be "of" Christ, Paul's words are air tight that no one can claim to be of Christ unless Christ was crucified for that person AND that person was baptized in the name of Christ. The phrase "in the name of" is a legal term, one takes his title and papers to the clerks office to have his newly purchased car put "in the name of" the buyer. One is not in the ownership "of" Christ until he has been baptized in the name of Christ.

 

[SeaBass]

He was joking with you because he knows that this could easily escalate into a heated discussion.

Yes you are correct. SAVED BY FAITH.

Eph 2:8--------faith>>>>>>>>>>>>>>saves
1Pet3:21------baptism>>>>>>>>>>>>saves

Since there is just one way to be saved then a saving faith must include baptism and faith is dead without including baptism.

 

[SeaBass]

Then everyone in the OT is headed to hell because he paid for their sin too.

According to some here, all that is necessary to be saved is Christ's death on the cross yet Christ died for every man, Heb 2:9 but every man will not be saved. Obviously being saved takes something more than just Christ dying on the cross, if not then EVERY MAN will be saved.