Does entering into Jesus' rest mean we're to give up the Sabbath day? Is the 4th commandment part of the moral law of God?

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stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
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I just showed you why your philosophy of the 10 commandments being written on the heart is wrong.

Re-stating your wrong philosophy doesn't make it right.

Paul or the Lord Jesus Christ could have told us that the 10 commandments would be written on our hearts. But they NEVER did.

They alluded to Gods Law being written on the believers heart. Then Paul spells out that it ISN'T the 10 commandments that are written on our hearts. Its the Spirit of God that is written on our hearts. So Gods Law isn't the same as the 10 Commandments.

2 Corinthians 3:3 Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.

2 Corinthians 3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

The 10 commandments COULDN'T be what is written on our hearts because the 10 Commandments Kill.

It must be the Spirit that is written on our hearts because the Spirit gives Life.

Don't say this isn't what Paul says because it absolutely is.

What this further explanation of what is placed on our hearts MEANS is that YOU have mistaken what was to be placed in peoples hearts in those other verses (Heb 8:10, Rom 10:4-8, etc). Gods Law must NOT be the Commandments commanding you to obey Him and what He does. Gods Law must be something that CAUSES your obedience.

Sounds more like the Holy Spirit doesn't it? Well it IS the Holy Spirit because we are told it is in 2 Corinthians 3.


There is NO POSSIBILITY of the Lord Jesus Christ offering Rest if it is the 10 commandments that are written on peoples hearts.

There is NO POSSIBILITY of Paul telling people they aren't under law if it is written on their hearts.


What their is is some strange wish of legalists and judaizers to make Christianity about the 10 commandments. Even though there is a much MUCH better Ministration in the Lord Jesus Christ.
I never heard this before but it makes great sense. We have a new nature, new heart, created in Christ Jesus so His image? Stamped or engraved? Formed by Holy Spirit?


Also, the commands we obey....would this not be instruction through His Voice within our spirit? Being led? And it’s possible too that we could also hear scripture, so the Word and Spirit would be working together.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
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I never heard this before but it makes great sense. We have a new nature, new heart, created in Christ Jesus so His image? Stamped or engraved? Formed by Holy Spirit?


Also, the commands we obey....would this not be instruction through His Voice within our spirit? Being led? And it’s possible too that we could also hear scripture, so the Word and Spirit would be working together.
If we have a heart created in the image of Christ, we should follow him. Christ certainly honored the Sabbath day just as He and the Father created it and made it Holy.

If you are under law then you can't be forgiven but you must obey the law. It is not a commandment to never listen to the law, to not read scripture, to not obey. We are under law in the same way we are subject to gravity, it is part of the world we live in.

God created us and the world, and that creation does not change. God does not change, God is eternal. We say God changes his ways of dealing with us, but every thing God does including His dealing with us remains basically eternal. Circumcision remains the same, it is only the cutting of the flesh that changed.

Christ did not change the day God blessed and we are to rest on that day. It is true that we rest in Christ with our soul, but that remains the same. The rest called for is "from our labor" and that does not change.
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
11,445
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I never heard this before but it makes great sense. We have a new nature, new heart, created in Christ Jesus so His image? Stamped or engraved? Formed by Holy Spirit?


Also, the commands we obey....would this not be instruction through His Voice within our spirit? Being led? And it’s possible too that we could also hear scripture, so the Word and Spirit would be working together.

The rest is not a time sensitive word. Today if we hear his voice and harden not our hearts we have enter the Sabbath rest

The sabbath in the old testament was a day set aside that the believers could get out the gospel .It was designed for the time period the Jews were in the wilderness with Manna heading toward the promised land .

The bringing out of the gospel as a fast was on a day when labor was not required to maintain the bodies of death. It was to be observed throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.

Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant .Exodus 31:16
 

lightbearer

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
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HBG. Pa. USA
Another one..............

There is nothing "moral" about not working on a particular day.

ALSO remember to do all the OTHER THINGS the Bible commands for sabbaths, not just resting.
Bring out the sacrifices.
Nothing moral about not partaking of the fruit of the tree of good and evil either except GOD said not too.
 

lightbearer

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
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I guess if you are a Jew then do as the Jews do.
I prefer to follow the example of the apostles and fellowship/worship on Sunday, 1st day of the week.

Keep whatever day you like, the real meaning of worship is that EVERY day is a worship day.
There is no grounds in scripture to anything you are putting forth here
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
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There is no grounds in scripture to anything you are putting forth here
Christians worship the risen Christ.
Mat 28:8-9
(8) And they departed quickly from the sepulchre with fear and great joy; and did run to bring his disciples word.
(9) And as they went to tell his disciples, behold, Jesus met them, saying, All hail. And they came and held him by the feet, and worshipped him.

What day did he rise?
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
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Nothing moral about not partaking of the fruit of the tree of good and evil either except GOD said not too.
Beg pardon. It is moral in the extreme to obey God and not partake of the fruit of good and evil.

And before you say anything, the Jews could not even get their calendar right. They couldn't even get the year right
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
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So you believe Adam, Abraham whorship oN sabbath?
Sabbath is rest. Who ever accept Jesus enter into rest

Hebrews 4

3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
Rest from labor is not rest in the Lord, the two ideas are completely different. When we labor and rest from it is to not do physical work and can mean to rest our minds as well. When we rest in the Lord we put our faith entirely on the Lord and rest in that. On the Sabbath we are told to rest from physical labor, so keep to the subject.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
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What about the individual with disabilities, whatever they may be, or beggars? Are they to beg only 6 days? The one bedridden with a disability or disease, how do they rest? Are their care takers to leave them to their own on the Sabbath. I suppose Doctors and nurses should rest also, on that day? Also, what about time zones, do they matter? You do know the Jews used a lunar calendar, so should we adjust our dates for correctness? Or does God simply nod that we mean well?

You see the quandary the early Jews had when they started to see the practical application of what should and should not be done.

Jesus said something about those that scour the Bible searching for eternal life, when they actually point to Him.

True story: an old American Indian was driving his buckboard and mule through a small town out west. A missionary stopped him and said, “ Don’t you know this is the Lords Sabbath, you are not allowed to work on this day. The old Indian thought for a moment and tilted his head. “Ooh, I see, “ he said, “You worship your God this day, me worship my God every day.”

Can you show me any law or ceremony that Jesus did not fulfill?
Because we do our best to follow Jesus in one way it does not mean that we listen to only one command. If a person whose work is necessary for the welfare of others were to say the blessing God gives the Sabbath comes before any other guidance we have from God, they are throwing out the baby with the bath water.

It is impossible to disregard God in your life for an entire day and worship, honor, and listen to God every day.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
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What about the individual with disabilities, whatever they may be, or beggars? Are they to beg only 6 days? The one bedridden with a disability or disease, how do they rest? Are their care takers to leave them to their own on the Sabbath. I suppose Doctors and nurses should rest also, on that day? Also, what about time zones, do they matter? You do know the Jews used a lunar calendar, so should we adjust our dates for correctness? Or does God simply nod that we mean well?

You see the quandary the early Jews had when they started to see the practical application of what should and should not be done.

Jesus said something about those that scour the Bible searching for eternal life, when they actually point to Him.

True story: an old American Indian was driving his buckboard and mule through a small town out west. A missionary stopped him and said, “ Don’t you know this is the Lords Sabbath, you are not allowed to work on this day. The old Indian thought for a moment and tilted his head. “Ooh, I see, “ he said, “You worship your God this day, me worship my God every day.”

Can you show me any law or ceremony that Jesus did not fulfill?
Beggars! Have you seen them working They earn enough, usually, to take off a day. As for doctors and nurses, did not Jesus say it is just fine to do good works anytime_
Your post seems to seek a dispute where there should not be one. God bless you with His understanding and not the logic of flesh.
 

UnitedWithChrist

Well-known member
Aug 12, 2019
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Hi, I'm studying to shew myself approved unto God and I'm not certain as to whether the rest that still "remaineth therefore...to the people of God" (Heb. 4:9)--written to the Hebrews who were keeping the Sabbath day--was meant to say that they would have "another" rest as in "in addition" ("For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterwards have spoken of another day" - Heb. 4:8) or "another" as in "a different."

...Like if someone gave you one apple and then said, "I'm going to give you 'another' apple, and then they handed you a second apple ("another" apple), or if someone handed you one apple and then said, "I'm going to give you 'another' apple," and then took the original apple they gave you and then give you a different apple instead ("another apple"). Thanks:)
As an ex-Sabbathkeeper, my position is that the Sabbath is a part of the ceremonial law of ancient Israel.

I base this on Colossians 2:16-17. I realize that SDAs have tried to claim that the weekly Sabbath is not included in these verses, but their position is weak, if non-existent.

Compare Colossians 2:16-17 with Hebrews 10:1-4 and Hebrews 9:9-11.

It is plain to see that the author of Hebrews is grouping the weekly Sabbath with other ceremonial aspects of the Law which were typological. They were "shadows".

It is perfectly fine for anyone to observe the Sabbath, as long as they are not claiming others need to observe it, or that they are earning or meriting their salvation by observing it, though. Unfortunately, the tendency is to become a Judaizer and to claim everyone should be doing it, and to look down on those who don't as unsaved or inferior.

However, I believe there is strong evidence that the Lord's Day (Sunday) is a better day to observe. This is due to the fact that Jesus' resurrection marked the beginning of a new creation, and the eighth day signifies this. It is the beginning of a new week, and is emblematic of a new creation.

Jesus is the firstfruits of a great harvest. His resurrection body is the first thing which has been renewed out of the old creation, and was moved into the new creation (or the age to come). Believers, in terms of their regenerate hearts, have also been moved into the new creation. Their bodies will follow in the resurrection.

Additionally, Jesus appeared to his disciples on the eighth day twice after the resurrection.

Regarding Hebrews 4, different types of God's rest have been mentioned. These include the Promised Land, which was a type of God's rest, where God, through Joshua, gave rest to his people from their enemies. The initial creation rest of God is another type. The weekly Sabbath is a third type.

I believe the "rest" that is being referred to is the rest of faith in Jesus, where the believer ceases trying to do good works to earn salvation, that the Jews have not reached. However, there is also an eternal rest (known as the New Heavens and New Earth) that has not been reached yet for any believers. It is assured for believers, but has not been reached.

Some would also interject the Millennium, but I am not a traditional millennialist. At this point I am a "realized millennialist" or "amillennial". However, if I was a millennialist, I would be ok with referring to these verses as indicative of the Millennium AND the eternal state.
 

UnitedWithChrist

Well-known member
Aug 12, 2019
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Yet the religious leaders sought to kill Jesus for breaking the Sabbath laws.
I wouldn't say Jesus broke the Sabbath day, but he definitely broke the clean/unclean laws by touching individuals who were unclean.

In one sense, though, Jesus couldn't help but break the Sabbath because he upholds the entire universe, and that didn't cease at the incarnation. He was/is both God and glorified man. The Jews knew, in John 5, that he was making this claim, when he said that both he and the Father were continuing to work. Jesus was working even if he was resting as a man, because he is YHVH.

Jesus constantly broke the Sabbath in that sense, because he is YHVH and didn't cease doing the work of YHVH on the Sabbath. And the Jews knew that. They know that children are born and people die on the Sabbath, and that creation continues to work like normal...and they also knew that God was the one keeping it going, a fact that modern science is ignorant of.

I think even some modern Christians don't realize that Jesus is actively sustaining all creation. They tend to view God, in some aspects, as the deists do.

Some will use the Oral Law explanation in regards to passages like this, and it does apply in some cases, but the reality is that Jesus does uphold the universe during the Incarnation, so in that sense, he broke the Sabbath. Some Sabbathkeepers claim God has observed the Sabbath since eternity, in order to maintain their view that it is part of his moral character, but how would God measure the Sabbath without a creation? The Sabbath is measured by respect to the earth.

By the way, do you know that Ellen G. White dictated that SDAs could not live in some areas where the Sabbath was impossible to measure, such as the poles of the earth? That is because day and night last so long, it would be difficult to measure the Sabbath according to the rules she applied.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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I wouldn't say Jesus broke the Sabbath day, but he definitely broke the clean/unclean laws by touching individuals who were unclean.

In one sense, though, Jesus couldn't help but break the Sabbath because he upholds the entire universe, and that didn't cease at the incarnation. He was/is both God and glorified man. The Jews knew, in John 5, that he was making this claim, when he said that both he and the Father were continuing to work. Jesus was working even if he was resting as a man, because he is YHVH.

Jesus constantly broke the Sabbath in that sense, because he is YHVH and didn't cease doing the work of YHVH on the Sabbath. And the Jews knew that. They know that children are born and people die on the Sabbath, and that creation continues to work like normal...and they also knew that God was the one keeping it going, a fact that modern science is ignorant of.

I think even some modern Christians don't realize that Jesus is actively sustaining all creation. They tend to view God, in some aspects, as the deists do.

Some will use the Oral Law explanation in regards to passages like this, and it does apply in some cases, but the reality is that Jesus does uphold the universe during the Incarnation, so in that sense, he broke the Sabbath. Some Sabbathkeepers claim God has observed the Sabbath since eternity, in order to maintain their view that it is part of his moral character, but how would God measure the Sabbath without a creation? The Sabbath is measured by respect to the earth.

By the way, do you know that Ellen G. White dictated that SDAs could not live in some areas where the Sabbath was impossible to measure, such as the poles of the earth? That is because day and night last so long, it would be difficult to measure the Sabbath according to the rules she applied.
John 5:18 For this reason they tried all the more to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.
 

Whispered

Well-known member
Aug 17, 2019
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Hi, I'm studying to shew myself approved unto God and I'm not certain as to whether the rest that still "remaineth therefore...to the people of God" (Heb. 4:9)--written to the Hebrews who were keeping the Sabbath day--was meant to say that they would have "another" rest as in "in addition" ("For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterwards have spoken of another day" - Heb. 4:8) or "another" as in "a different."

...Like if someone gave you one apple and then said, "I'm going to give you 'another' apple, and then they handed you a second apple ("another" apple), or if someone handed you one apple and then said, "I'm going to give you 'another' apple," and then took the original apple they gave you and then give you a different apple instead ("another apple"). Thanks:)
Many think that the moral laws of God, also known as the ten commandments, no longer apply. Some argue the 4th commandment doesn't apply because Gentiles aren't beholding to honor Jewish customs. However, Jesus came not only for the lost sheep of the house of Israel but to save other sheep not of their fold, as he said.
And remember the Saint Apostle Paul, who tells us we are all one in Christ Jesus. There is no difference if we are Jewish, Gentile, Greek, slave, or free. We are all one. Therefore, when Jesus came to save the world from its sins, that whosoever believes in Him shall have eternal life, we cannot then insert division into the body of Christ by daring to say the day God made for us, the Sabbath, The Book of Mark chapter 2, only pertains to the Jews.
Especially when we recall the Creation scriptures in Genesis. God rested on the seventh day, which was what became the day of the Sabbath, well before Jews were created. ;)
I would suggest the body of Christ, who are all one in Him, should not be led to believe division is righteous among us.


With that in mind consider that Jesus said, if you love me keep my commandments. And , if thou would enterest into life keep the commandments. Jesus was then asked what commandments must be kept in order to be saved? Jesus referred to those laws in the ten commandments.

This is found in the Book of Matthew chapter 19. 16 And behold, one came to him and said, [i]Teacher, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? 17 And he said unto him, [j]Why askest thou me concerning that which is good? One there is who is good: but if thou wouldest enter into life, keep the commandments. 18 He saith unto him, Which? And Jesus said, [k]Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, 19 Honor thy father and thy mother; and, [l]Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.

Then in the Book of Matthew chapter 22 we read the question being asked of Jesus to be that of, which is the great commandment?

And Jesus answered: 36 Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law? 37 And he said unto him, [n]Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38 This is the great and first commandment. 39 [o]And a second like unto it is this, [p]Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. 40 On these two commandments the whole law hangeth, and the prophets.

Love, is the foundation of the law and the prophets. When Jesus reiterated parts of the moral laws, the ten commandments, to be observed so as to be saved, are we to say He is wrong? Or that those are only applicable to the Jews who do not accept the Jesus of our New Testament was their Messiah?

The sad thing that has occurred in the Christian faith over the years is the introduction of the antisemitic heresy known as , Replacement Theology, That God replaced His chosen people, the Jews, with the Christian Gentiles due to the Jews in Jesus day denying He was Messiah.
Very often proponents of that ideology condemn anything they believe pertained to the Jews or the Old Testament. The Sabbath especially. Some even dismiss the OT as "Jewish only".

When God made the Sabbath for man, note, Jesus didn't say, Jewish man, who are we to say it no longer matters? Jesus was Lord of the Sabbath. Meaning, Jesus was God, who made the Sabbath for man after He made the Sabbath for His day of rest.

Hope that helps. :) God Bless.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
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People, get over the law attitude of the Seventh Day dassigned by the order of creation. It is no loger "keeping" the Sabbaths, it is accepting the gift of the Seventh Day to be spexcial with the Father Who created it.

Igt is not a matter of law anymore, it is a matter of believing k the Father designated it and not man.

You continue callit someting like "keeping" in the manner you have in mind, then I am guilty of gratitude to the Fathe ronly, never to people who have decided He somehow changed the order of creation...think folks. It is the Seventh Day not the first day.