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E
a few things I think of when I think of Gods love and patience vs our love and patience.
1. Abraham could not own his land, because the SIN OF THE AMORITE was not yet complete
2. Gods patience with Israel - how many hundreds of years did God withold his punishment, even though they continually rejected him and committed adultry on him, even today he is patient with them
3. Even edom, God did not just destroy them, it took years of them being Gods enemy before he destroyed them.
what can we learn from the first and last examples (and there are many more) When God hands out punishment, it is because the people have come to the point they will not repent no matter what. We can prove this with ninevah, a sinful nation and enemy of God. yet God relented his wrat on them because they repented. Just like he will relent his wrath on israel. when they repent, and are restored to what was given to their fathers.
Hell is no different. God will not allow a person to die if he KNOWS they would receive his gift. Anyone who goes to hell made their own eternal choice. God would have given them every chance,
1. Abraham could not own his land, because the SIN OF THE AMORITE was not yet complete
2. Gods patience with Israel - how many hundreds of years did God withold his punishment, even though they continually rejected him and committed adultry on him, even today he is patient with them
3. Even edom, God did not just destroy them, it took years of them being Gods enemy before he destroyed them.
what can we learn from the first and last examples (and there are many more) When God hands out punishment, it is because the people have come to the point they will not repent no matter what. We can prove this with ninevah, a sinful nation and enemy of God. yet God relented his wrat on them because they repented. Just like he will relent his wrath on israel. when they repent, and are restored to what was given to their fathers.
Hell is no different. God will not allow a person to die if he KNOWS they would receive his gift. Anyone who goes to hell made their own eternal choice. God would have given them every chance,
G
G
And I apologize to you Marc. I saw your posts as a different view. I line up with EG on this about word for word, and the way he phrased things and explained things were easy for me to understand and follow.
And I "saw" your posts as a disagreement to that view. Semantics in the end of it all.
God bless Brother.
And I "saw" your posts as a disagreement to that view. Semantics in the end of it all.
God bless Brother.
Good morning from Spain. Sorry to be so slow in response, I go to bed very early...
Forgive me, though I read the Bible continuously, I have made it a point not to attmpt to memorize numbers rote in favor of aking for understanding of what I read.s
I do know it is in one of the two letters to the Thessalonians. It goes, paraphrased, in those days I willpour out a spirit of delusion upon the land so that those who have "chosen" evil will believe lies.
If you really cannot find it, let me know, and I will for you.
Also please note that this will or does apply to only those who have chosen evil over good.
Forgive me, though I read the Bible continuously, I have made it a point not to attmpt to memorize numbers rote in favor of aking for understanding of what I read.s
I do know it is in one of the two letters to the Thessalonians. It goes, paraphrased, in those days I willpour out a spirit of delusion upon the land so that those who have "chosen" evil will believe lies.
If you really cannot find it, let me know, and I will for you.
Also please note that this will or does apply to only those who have chosen evil over good.
No one I know believes "free-will" even approaches some supernatural ability to do whatever one imagines. Free will for me and for folks I know is simply being allowed to shoose a course of action, attitude, and even philosophy. Unhappily many folks use it to choose a collection of traditions of man rather than to believe God. You may believe God, by avid and constant stufdy of His Word, or you may decide to ignore Him. This is frfee will.
M
Hi folks I haven't read all of what has been said, it's getting a long thread
so sorry if this repeats anything.
Just something which occurred to me, as human beings we can love and we
can hate, for some it's easier than others.
For me personally I find it very hard to hate someone, part of me wants to try to
understand why people do the things they do and try to see the good in people.
Maybe though with God it's different, he does not have our lack of knowledge.
He knows all things about the human heart, our motives, our intentions, our
real foundational reasons for doing what we do etc. Maybe this knowledge
gives the ability to God to really love and to really hate in a way we can never
understand.
Maybe also God knows who has or will give themselves over to Satan and who is
completely evil and will never consider those things which are good and pure and
merciful etc.
If for sample I knew someone who had committed a terrible crime but then I heard
they had come from a terrible family background themselves, then I might, while
not condoning what they did, have some sorrow for them that the circumstances of life
have all played a part in them reaching this point in their lives.
But if I knew without a shadow of a doubt that they were evil through and through and
that their whole purpose in life was to deliberate inflict pain and destruction. That there was
no underlying reason for this, no mental health issues etc etc. that they were just
intent in destroying other people. Then maybe I would hate them.
Maybe be the whole love/hate thing and the confusion is because we do not have the
knowledge God has.
I know Gods love is overwhelming more intense and wonderful than any comparable human love
(you can read about that in my testimony if you can find it, posted about Aprilish in the
testimony forum). I would imagine then that God's hate is far more intense than we can
understand also.
Are we mistaken in trying to understand the love and hate of God from a human perspective.
so sorry if this repeats anything.
Just something which occurred to me, as human beings we can love and we
can hate, for some it's easier than others.
For me personally I find it very hard to hate someone, part of me wants to try to
understand why people do the things they do and try to see the good in people.
Maybe though with God it's different, he does not have our lack of knowledge.
He knows all things about the human heart, our motives, our intentions, our
real foundational reasons for doing what we do etc. Maybe this knowledge
gives the ability to God to really love and to really hate in a way we can never
understand.
Maybe also God knows who has or will give themselves over to Satan and who is
completely evil and will never consider those things which are good and pure and
merciful etc.
If for sample I knew someone who had committed a terrible crime but then I heard
they had come from a terrible family background themselves, then I might, while
not condoning what they did, have some sorrow for them that the circumstances of life
have all played a part in them reaching this point in their lives.
But if I knew without a shadow of a doubt that they were evil through and through and
that their whole purpose in life was to deliberate inflict pain and destruction. That there was
no underlying reason for this, no mental health issues etc etc. that they were just
intent in destroying other people. Then maybe I would hate them.
Maybe be the whole love/hate thing and the confusion is because we do not have the
knowledge God has.
I know Gods love is overwhelming more intense and wonderful than any comparable human love
(you can read about that in my testimony if you can find it, posted about Aprilish in the
testimony forum). I would imagine then that God's hate is far more intense than we can
understand also.
Are we mistaken in trying to understand the love and hate of God from a human perspective.
God declares in Isaiah, "Bring your argument to me that you may be proven right." The reason He declared this is not quite the same, but it is the same meaning always.
If you believe you have a beef with God, tell Him, but talk in earnest , and not as HIs judge. He was already judged and killed on Golgotha for unrigtheous sinners, I being chief among their number.
As for the world being destroyed minus the eight, I will not claim I understand it wholly, but I certainly have come to understand the only Love anyone will ever have that is true and eternal is God, Himself.
If you want this proven in form yet palpable, I am afraid you will never have it. this is based on faith, not just believing God, but the Gift of faith from Him afdter repenting of the ways of this world in favor of God and the Kingdom
I am not assuming you are not already aware of this, but meditation on these truths resolves much, all for me.
If you believe you have a beef with God, tell Him, but talk in earnest , and not as HIs judge. He was already judged and killed on Golgotha for unrigtheous sinners, I being chief among their number.
As for the world being destroyed minus the eight, I will not claim I understand it wholly, but I certainly have come to understand the only Love anyone will ever have that is true and eternal is God, Himself.
If you want this proven in form yet palpable, I am afraid you will never have it. this is based on faith, not just believing God, but the Gift of faith from Him afdter repenting of the ways of this world in favor of God and the Kingdom
I am not assuming you are not already aware of this, but meditation on these truths resolves much, all for me.
M
Hi something that came to me while I was in the shower (I talk with God a lot in the
shower - maybe that's too much information
).
There was a famous celeb in the UK respected by many, probably loved by many, he
did a lot of charity work, raised millions, donated money, volunteered his time to
work as a porter in hospitals etc. He died in his old age having lived life to the full,
people mourned his passing. Jimmy Saville.
Then it came out that he had abused hundreds of people, many of them children during his
life time. The nation was shocked and at first disbelieving. People who saw what they saw on
face value loved him. But I bet God knew fully about his deception, the abuse, the
manipulation of people and circumstances so he could get close to victims.
If God had said I hate him, while he was still alive no one would have agreed with that and
they would have accused God of being unjust.
Only God understands fully the human heart and I think we have to respect that God can
judge a person far better than we ever can.
shower - maybe that's too much information
).There was a famous celeb in the UK respected by many, probably loved by many, he
did a lot of charity work, raised millions, donated money, volunteered his time to
work as a porter in hospitals etc. He died in his old age having lived life to the full,
people mourned his passing. Jimmy Saville.
Then it came out that he had abused hundreds of people, many of them children during his
life time. The nation was shocked and at first disbelieving. People who saw what they saw on
face value loved him. But I bet God knew fully about his deception, the abuse, the
manipulation of people and circumstances so he could get close to victims.
If God had said I hate him, while he was still alive no one would have agreed with that and
they would have accused God of being unjust.
Only God understands fully the human heart and I think we have to respect that God can
judge a person far better than we ever can.
A
First, on a nosy note: How do you go to bed early in Spain? By the time supper is over it's already late. They tend to have a schedule totally different than America. lol
Second, I just did a phrase search in my e_sword program. I could fine no verses, in all of the NT, that contains these words, "I will pour out a spirit," and it didn't have to be an exact match for it to find it. Can you remember, at least, three significant words in that verse? (Insignificant words are like a, the, and, will, etc. So significant words are more the heart of the message.) I don't mind looking, but I need something better to go on.
Second, I just did a phrase search in my e_sword program. I could fine no verses, in all of the NT, that contains these words, "I will pour out a spirit," and it didn't have to be an exact match for it to find it. Can you remember, at least, three significant words in that verse? (Insignificant words are like a, the, and, will, etc. So significant words are more the heart of the message.) I don't mind looking, but I need something better to go on.
First, do not freak out about the comparisons below, one or two as referenced should be more than sufficient for you. Now I do paraphrase from memory, so I give God credit for what He gives to His prophets to write down. Also, my own schedule is far from that of the Spanish. I, being of more humble stock, do not follow the upper class system of dining late, I dine like farmers tend to do, being of farm stock myself. Also, I have always loved going to bed with or before the sun sets in summer. Not in winter, now that would be absurd, right?!
Go to the verse, and read befoe and after this quote if you like........it does say the content of what I paraphrased as from God..........thanks.
2Th 2:11
(ABP+)
And[SUP]G2532 on account ofG1223 thisG3778 [2shall send forthG3992 3to themG1473 G3588 1God]G2316 an energyG1753 of delusion,G4106 forG1519 G3588 them to believeG4100 G1473 in theG3588 lie,G5579 [/SUP]
[SUP](ASV)
And for this cause God sendeth them a working of error, that they should believe a lie:
(CEV)
So God will make sure that they are fooled into believing a lie.
(Darby)
And for this reason God sends to them a working of error, that they should believe what is false,
(DRB)
(2:10) Therefore God shall send them the operation of error, to believe lying:
(FDB)
Et à cause de cela, Dieu leur envoie une énergie d'erreur pu qu'ils croient au mensonge,
(FLS)
Aussi Dieu leur envoie une puissance d'égarement, pour qu'ils croient au mensonge,
(HNT)
ובעבור זאת ישלח להם האלהים מדוחי שוא להאמין בשקר׃
(INR)
Perciò Dio manda loro una potenza d'errore perché credano alla menzogna;
(IRL)
E perciò Iddio manda loro efficacia d'errore onde credano alla menzogna;
(ISV)
For this reason, God will send them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie.
(KJV)
And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
(KJV+)
AndG2532 for this causeG1223 G5124 GodG2316 shall sendG3992 themG846 strong delusion,G1753 G4106 that theyG846 should believeG4100 a lie:G5579
(ROB)
Şi de aceea, Dumnezeu le trimite o lucrare de amăgire, ca ei să creadă minciuni,
(SSE)
Por tanto, pues, enviará Dios en ellos operación de error, para que crean a la mentira;
(TKK)
İşte bu nedenle Tanrı yalana kanmaları için onların üzerine yanıltıcı bir güç gönderiyor.
(Vulgate)
ideo mittit illis Deus operationem erroris ut credant mendacio
(Webster)
And for this cause God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
(WNT)
And for this reason God sends them a misleading influence that they may believe the lie;
[/SUP]
Go to the verse, and read befoe and after this quote if you like........it does say the content of what I paraphrased as from God..........thanks.
2Th 2:11
(ABP+)
And[SUP]G2532 on account ofG1223 thisG3778 [2shall send forthG3992 3to themG1473 G3588 1God]G2316 an energyG1753 of delusion,G4106 forG1519 G3588 them to believeG4100 G1473 in theG3588 lie,G5579 [/SUP]
[SUP](ASV)
And for this cause God sendeth them a working of error, that they should believe a lie:
(CEV)
So God will make sure that they are fooled into believing a lie.
(Darby)
And for this reason God sends to them a working of error, that they should believe what is false,
(DRB)
(2:10) Therefore God shall send them the operation of error, to believe lying:
(FDB)
Et à cause de cela, Dieu leur envoie une énergie d'erreur pu qu'ils croient au mensonge,
(FLS)
Aussi Dieu leur envoie une puissance d'égarement, pour qu'ils croient au mensonge,
(HNT)
ובעבור זאת ישלח להם האלהים מדוחי שוא להאמין בשקר׃
(INR)
Perciò Dio manda loro una potenza d'errore perché credano alla menzogna;
(IRL)
E perciò Iddio manda loro efficacia d'errore onde credano alla menzogna;
(ISV)
For this reason, God will send them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie.
(KJV)
And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
(KJV+)
AndG2532 for this causeG1223 G5124 GodG2316 shall sendG3992 themG846 strong delusion,G1753 G4106 that theyG846 should believeG4100 a lie:G5579
(ROB)
Şi de aceea, Dumnezeu le trimite o lucrare de amăgire, ca ei să creadă minciuni,
(SSE)
Por tanto, pues, enviará Dios en ellos operación de error, para que crean a la mentira;
(TKK)
İşte bu nedenle Tanrı yalana kanmaları için onların üzerine yanıltıcı bir güç gönderiyor.
(Vulgate)
ideo mittit illis Deus operationem erroris ut credant mendacio
(Webster)
And for this cause God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
(WNT)
And for this reason God sends them a misleading influence that they may believe the lie;
[/SUP]
A
Re: Spain. Ah, I didn't know there were different schedules. An old roommate moved to Madrid, so I thought everyone in Spain lived like folks in Madrid. (If I ever go there, I'd prefer the country, because my stomach would growl too much waiting for supper in the city. lol)
Re: Verse. Unless some of those foreign languages I can't read mentions a spirit, at least it proves God didn't create a spirit to fool people. That's what I was talking about, way back when. I don't believe the Bible has anything to do with spirits other than the Holy Spirit.
Re: Verse. Unless some of those foreign languages I can't read mentions a spirit, at least it proves God didn't create a spirit to fool people. That's what I was talking about, way back when. I don't believe the Bible has anything to do with spirits other than the Holy Spirit.
I have mentioned I do not memorize numbers or specific words always if I have anunderstanding of what is stated. The way I paraphrased does not change the meaning.
As for the Horarior Españoles, many decades back even a centurey or more most Spaniards adopted the more aristocratic schedule for dining. I follow the peasan traditions. It give me more time to do things in the light of day.
God bless you, and I hope you are not going to find fault in my repeating what I understand from scripture iby memory in my own words. Also, I believe the word, spirit, is used in the Oxfor Study Bible, if not I know I read it in one soemwhere.
As for the Horarior Españoles, many decades back even a centurey or more most Spaniards adopted the more aristocratic schedule for dining. I follow the peasan traditions. It give me more time to do things in the light of day.
God bless you, and I hope you are not going to find fault in my repeating what I understand from scripture iby memory in my own words. Also, I believe the word, spirit, is used in the Oxfor Study Bible, if not I know I read it in one soemwhere.