Does God love all mankind and does He wish to save everyone

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Slayer

Active member
Jul 23, 2018
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#1
Universalists believe all people will be saved. They often complain against the contrary teaching that people go to hell by posing questions such as:
  • "Do you really believe that God is going to lose most of mankind in hell and that only a few are going to be saved?"
  • "If most go to hell, doesn't that mean that Satan wins since God only gets a few compared to the majority who are lost?"
Of course, these kinds of questions are the wrong ones to ask. What they are doing is using emotionalism to sway someone's beliefs. What they should be asking are questions like these:
  • "What does the Bible teach about damnation?"
  • "Does the Bible tell us if most will be lost or saved?"
  • "Does it tell us that all will be saved?

  • "Enter by the narrow gate; for the gate is wide, and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and many are those who enter by it. 14"For the gate is small, and the way is narrow that leads to life, and few are those who find it," (Matt. 7:13-14).
  • "For many are called, but few are chosen," (Matt. 22:14).

  • "And He was passing through from one city and village to another, teaching, and proceeding on His way to Jerusalem. 23And someone said to Him, "Lord, are there just a few who are being saved?"

  • And He said to them, 24"Strive to enter by the narrow door; for many, I tell you, will seek to enter and will not be able. 25"Once the head of the house gets up and shuts the door, and you begin to stand outside and knock on the door, saying, ‘Lord, open up to us!’ then He will answer and say to you, ‘I do not know where you are from.’ 26"Then you will begin to say, ‘We ate and drank in Your presence, and You taught in our streets’; 27and He will say, ‘I tell you, I do not know where you are from; depart from Me, all you evildoers,'" (Luke 13:22-27).

  • "And Isaiah cries out concerning Israel, "Though the number of the sons of Israel be as the sand of the sea, it is the remnant that will be saved; 28for the Lord will execute His word upon the earth, thoroughly and quickly," (Rom. 9:27)
So how can anyone say God has offered salvation to everyone, the above scriptures make it clear that God has chosen to save some and not all mankind as many believe. What about the Reprobate.

Romans 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

2 Corinthians 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

2 Corinthians 13:6 But I trust that ye shall know that we are not reprobates.

2 Corinthians 13:7 Now I pray to God that ye do no evil; not that we should appear approved, but that ye should do that which is honest, though we be as reprobates.

2 Timothy 3:8 Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.

Titus 1:16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

Do the reprobate choose to be reprobate or has God given them over to their sin nature to continuously sin and deprive themselves of receiving the salvation which Jesus purchased on the cross. It sounds like God didn't give them the gift of faith, so they can't respond by believing the Gospel.
 
Mar 23, 2016
2,724
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#2
Do the reprobate choose to be reprobate or has God given them over to their sin nature to continuously sin and deprive themselves of receiving the salvation which Jesus purchased on the cross. It sounds like God didn't give them the gift of faith, so they can't respond by believing the Gospel.
I believe all have "faith" and what happens to those who will find themselves cast into the lake of fire is that they place their faith in something that is not true.

The question is not "does someone have faith".

The question is "in what do we place our faith".

The more someone places their faith in (believes) a lie, the worse it is for them.

The atheist places his/her faith in the fact that there is no God. He/she remains weak in faith.

The believer places his/her faith in the Truth that God is the Creator of the heavens and the earth and all that is therein. The believer's faith is strengthened as he/she believes more and more of the Truth of God's Word.

Scripture even tells us If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable (1 Cor 15:19).

Some people require some sort of tangible proof. They have to be able to take a piece of God, put Him under a microscope, examine Him and understand His physical existence or they will not believe in His existence.

Sad, really, because God tells us He will be found when we seek Him with our whole heart.
 

Slayer

Active member
Jul 23, 2018
724
122
43
#3
I believe all have "faith" and what happens to those who will find themselves cast into the lake of fire is that they place their faith in something that is not true.

The question is not "does someone have faith".

The question is "in what do we place our faith".

The more someone places their faith in (believes) a lie, the worse it is for them.

The atheist places his/her faith in the fact that there is no God. He/she remains weak in faith.

The believer places his/her faith in the Truth that God is the Creator of the heavens and the earth and all that is therein. The believer's faith is strengthened as he/she believes more and more of the Truth of God's Word.

Scripture even tells us If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable (1 Cor 15:19).

Some people require some sort of tangible proof. They have to be able to take a piece of God, put Him under a microscope, examine Him and understand His physical existence or they will not believe in His existence.

Sad, really, because God tells us He will be found when we seek Him with our whole heart.
Sorry but none of that is Biblical, Jesus came to the earth, He is God and most people didn't believe in Him even after they witnessed the miracles, and saw and heard everything He said and did.

So we must conclude that no amount of evidence will be enough to convince someone who is spiritually blind and they don't have the gift to believe, because they are not of the elect of God.

If a person is not one of Gods elect, they will go to the grave as unbelievers. No matter how much evidence you present before their eyes, they are sealed for destruction. God is the only One with the power to decide who comes into His paradise, no man will ever have one iota of influence over Gods decision.
 

shrume

Senior Member
Jun 26, 2017
2,193
457
83
#4
Sorry but none of that is Biblical, Jesus came to the earth, He is God and most people didn't believe in Him even after they witnessed the miracles, and saw and heard everything He said and did.

So we must conclude that no amount of evidence will be enough to convince someone who is spiritually blind and they don't have the gift to believe, because they are not of the elect of God.

If a person is not one of Gods elect, they will go to the grave as unbelievers. No matter how much evidence you present before their eyes, they are sealed for destruction. God is the only One with the power to decide who comes into His paradise, no man will ever have one iota of influence over Gods decision.
People who decide to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ will be saved, and that is something anyone can do.
 

Latour

Active member
Jun 11, 2018
437
255
43
#5
Universalists believe all people will be saved. They often complain against the contrary teaching that people go to hell by posing questions such as:
  • "Do you really believe that God is going to lose most of mankind in hell and that only a few are going to be saved?"
  • "If most go to hell, doesn't that mean that Satan wins since God only gets a few compared to the majority who are lost?"
Of course, these kinds of questions are the wrong ones to ask. What they are doing is using emotionalism to sway someone's beliefs. What they should be asking are questions like these:
If a person is going to teach others about the kingdom then they must become informed what the kingdom of God is and what is the will of God.

The few are not the saved...but those who enter into life in this time. We are talking about the saints...those who rule over the nations with Christ. So then the few are the ones who are like Christ. The gospel is not about salvation as many suppose salvation to be...but about glory. It is the glorious gospel of Jesus Christ.

Only a few will taste the wonders of the depths of God.

How many walk in the Spirit in our time? How many walk in resurrection power above sin? Many? Or very few?

Does that mean that if you are not perfect in Christ you can't be saved??

That is not the point of the gospel. God is trying to get us interested in what HE is interested in. He is trying to transform us....but most people just want a salvation status added on to their carnal lives.
  • "What does the Bible teach about damnation?"
    [*]"Does the Bible tell us if most will be lost or saved?"
    [*]"Does it tell us that all will be saved?
Many will be cast into the lake of fire and die there. This is the second death.



  • "Enter by the narrow gate; for the gate is wide, and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and many are those who enter by it. 14"For the gate is small, and the way is narrow that leads to life, and few are those who find it," (Matt. 7:13-14).
    [*]"For many are called, but few are chosen," (Matt. 22:14).

Again this is for the sons of God. The many are not lost but are simply not able to handle the challenges that God wants His people to master.



  • "And He was passing through from one city and village to another, teaching, and proceeding on His way to Jerusalem. 23And someone said to Him, "Lord, are there just a few who are being saved?"
    [*]

    [*]And He said to them, 24"Strive to enter by the narrow door; for many, I tell you, will seek to enter and will not be able. 25"Once the head of the house gets up and shuts the door, and you begin to stand outside and knock on the door, saying, ‘Lord, open up to us!’ then He will answer and say to you, ‘I do not know where you are from.’ 26"Then you will begin to say, ‘We ate and drank in Your presence, and You taught in our streets’; 27and He will say, ‘I tell you, I do not know where you are from; depart from Me, all you evildoers,'" (Luke 13:22-27).
    [*]

    [*]"And Isaiah cries out concerning Israel, "Though the number of the sons of Israel be as the sand of the sea, it is the remnant that will be saved; 28for the Lord will execute His word upon the earth, thoroughly and quickly," (Rom. 9:27)
The remnant of Israel. These are the holy ones.


So how can anyone say God has offered salvation to everyone, the above scriptures make it clear that God has chosen to save some and not all mankind as many believe. What about the Reprobate.

Romans 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

2 Corinthians 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

2 Corinthians 13:6 But I trust that ye shall know that we are not reprobates.

2 Corinthians 13:7 Now I pray to God that ye do no evil; not that we should appear approved, but that ye should do that which is honest, though we be as reprobates.

2 Timothy 3:8 Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.

Titus 1:16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

Do the reprobate choose to be reprobate or has God given them over to their sin nature to continuously sin and deprive themselves of receiving the salvation which Jesus purchased on the cross. It sounds like God didn't give them the gift of faith, so they can't respond by believing the Gospel.
The minimum standard in the kingdom of God is that we love others as ourselves. If we do this we will be saved. Now that is very hard for a modern believer to hear because the truth is really quite unknown in our time. But the law of righteousness continues to be in effect. It says God so loved the world....not God so wanted to prove men are incapable of loving God or others.

So then God is easy to please but hard to satisfy.

A Christian who claims to be a follower of Christ will be judged by a very hard standard...that of holiness.

A person who is humble and claims nothing will be judged easier.

According to how we judge and claim things...so will our own judgment be. This truth is basically either ignored or unknown.

So then many righteous will be saved in the nations....the meek, the loving, the merciful, the repentant...etc

God is love and very merciful.

But to those who claim much or have received much...the judgment will be harder. To whom much is given more is required.

But who understands these things? Who understands God's ways?
 
Mar 23, 2016
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#6
Sorry but none of that is Biblical, Jesus came to the earth, He is God and most people didn't believe in Him even after they witnessed the miracles, and saw and heard everything He said and did.
What about Peter? The Lord Jesus Christ told Peter he would deny Him. Peter said No Lord I will never deny you. And what did Peter do? And it wasn’t until he heard the cock crow that Peter remembered Jesus had told him he would deny Him.

Peter walked on water; Peter saw the Lord Jesus Christ in all His glory (Matt 17); Peter saw the times Jesus healed the sick, preached the Word, fed the masses when all they had was a couple of loaves of bread and a few fish.

Yet Peter succumbed to the failure of the flesh. And you can't come up with any reason for the rejection of God by those who find themselves cast in the lake of fire other than God rejects some but not others?




Slayer said:
So we must conclude that no amount of evidence will be enough to convince someone who is spiritually blind and they don't have the gift to believe, because they are not of the elect of God.
Or we can conclude that they hear the Word of God and suppress the truth in unrighteousness:

Romans 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness.

The word "hold" in Rom 1:18 is the Greek word katechō which means to hold back, restrain, suppress. So when the Word of God is spoken to some people, they restrain it, they suppress it.

The Word is restrained from reaching the heart where God brings increase.

When the Word is not restrained, the Word reaches the heart where God brings increase and faith is strengthened.




Slayer said:
If a person is not one of Gods elect, they will go to the grave as unbelievers. No matter how much evidence you present before their eyes, they are sealed for destruction. God is the only One with the power to decide who comes into His paradise, no man will ever have one iota of influence over Gods decision.
Yet God's desire is that all men be saved and to come unto the knowledge of the truth (1 Tim 2:4).

You restrain the truth that God allows people to reject Him.
 
Jul 2, 2018
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#7
"The few
If a person is going to teach others about the kingdom then they must become informed what the kingdom of God is and what is the will of God.

The few are not the saved...but those who enter into life in this time. We are talking about the saints...those who rule over the nations with Christ. So then the few are the ones who are like Christ. The gospel is not about salvation as many suppose salvation to be...but about glory. It is the glorious gospel of Jesus Christ.

Only a few will taste the wonders of the depths of God.

How many walk in the Spirit in our time? How many walk in resurrection power above sin? Many? Or very few?

Does that mean that if you are not perfect in Christ you can't be saved??

That is not the point of the gospel. God is trying to get us interested in what HE is interested in. He is trying to transform us....but most people just want a salvation status added on to their carnal lives.
Many will be cast into the lake of fire and die there. This is the second death.




Again this is for the sons of God. The many are not lost but are simply not able to handle the challenges that God wants His people to master.



The remnant of Israel. These are the holy ones.




The minimum standard in the kingdom of God is that we love others as ourselves. If we do this we will be saved. Now that is very hard for a modern believer to hear because the truth is really quite unknown in our time. But the law of righteousness continues to be in effect. It says God so loved the world....not God so wanted to prove men are incapable of loving God or others.

So then God is easy to please but hard to satisfy.

A Christian who claims to be a follower of Christ will be judged by a very hard standard...that of holiness.

A person who is humble and claims nothing will be judged easier.

According to how we judge and claim things...so will our own judgment be. This truth is basically either ignored or unknown.

So then many righteous will be saved in the nations....the meek, the loving, the merciful, the repentant...etc

God is love and very merciful.

But to those who claim much or have received much...the judgment will be harder. To whom much is given more is required.

But who understands these things? Who understands God's ways?
The few: those who enter into life in this time; who rule over the nation's with Christ; who are like Christ
Only a few will taste of the wonders of the depth of God.
I've repented much in reading this. I want to be one of the few.
God is trying to get us interested in what HE is interested in...to transform us.
I'm interested Father!
This is for the sons of God.
I want to be a son! Make me a son!
I want to handle the challenges that You want us to master.
So then God is easy to please but hard to satisfy.
I want to satisfy you LORD.
I don't have all the revelation that you have, but my eyes are fixed on Him and my heart longs to go deeper into Him.
Thank you Jesus!
 

Latour

Active member
Jun 11, 2018
437
255
43
#8
"The few

The few: those who enter into life in this time; who rule over the nation's with Christ; who are like Christ
Only a few will taste of the wonders of the depth of God.
I've repented much in reading this. I want to be one of the few.
God is trying to get us interested in what HE is interested in...to transform us.
I'm interested Father!
This is for the sons of God.
I want to be a son! Make me a son!
I want to handle the challenges that You want us to master.
So then God is easy to please but hard to satisfy.
I want to satisfy you LORD.
I don't have all the revelation that you have, but my eyes are fixed on Him and my heart longs to go deeper into Him.
Thank you Jesus!
May the grace of God be yours and ever increase. :)
 

Slayer

Active member
Jul 23, 2018
724
122
43
#9
What about Peter? The Lord Jesus Christ told Peter he would deny Him. Peter said No Lord I will never deny you. And what did Peter do? And it wasn’t until he heard the cock crow that Peter remembered Jesus had told him he would deny Him.

Peter walked on water; Peter saw the Lord Jesus Christ in all His glory (Matt 17); Peter saw the times Jesus healed the sick, preached the Word, fed the masses when all they had was a couple of loaves of bread and a few fish.

Yet Peter succumbed to the failure of the flesh. And you can't come up with any reason for the rejection of God by those who find themselves cast in the lake of fire other than God rejects some but not others?





Or we can conclude that they hear the Word of God and suppress the truth in unrighteousness:

Romans 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness.

The word "hold" in Rom 1:18 is the Greek word katechō which means to hold back, restrain, suppress. So when the Word of God is spoken to some people, they restrain it, they suppress it.

The Word is restrained from reaching the heart where God brings increase.

When the Word is not restrained, the Word reaches the heart where God brings increase and faith is strengthened.





Yet God's desire is that all men be saved and to come unto the knowledge of the truth (1 Tim 2:4).

You restrain the truth that God allows people to reject Him.
We believe 1 Tim 2:4 "All" is speaking to all those who will believe (the predestined to believe), just as the other verses that call people to believe are speaking to those who will believe because they were predestined to believe.

We believe that if God wanted to save "All" men He would have saved all men, because He is almighty and He never fails to achieve anything and especially something as important as a persons eternal state.
 

OstrichSmiling

Well-known member
Jun 17, 2018
1,027
408
83
#10
"every knee shall bow and every tongue shall confess Jesus is Lord to the glory of God, the Father."

"This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptance. For to this end we both labor and SUFFER REPROACH, because we trust in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of those who believe. These things command and teach." (1 Tim. 4:9-11, NKJV)
 
Mar 23, 2016
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#11
We believe 1 Tim 2:4 "All" is speaking to all those who will believe (the predestined to believe), just as the other verses that call people to believe are speaking to those who will believe because they were predestined to believe.

We believe that if God wanted to save "All" men He would have saved all men, because He is almighty and He never fails to achieve anything and especially something as important as a persons eternal state.
Yes, I know ... that is what you have to believe because you do not believe God allows mankind to reject Him.

Because of this, you give those who end up in the lake of fire an excuse when they stand before God come judgment day.

They can tell God "Well God, I did exactly as you "willed" for me. My whole life I lived a life of sin because that was your "will" for me. Meanwhile, the believer over there sinned against Your "will" for him. You can see I was more faithful to Your "will" than the believer. Therefore, the believer should be thrown in the lake of fire because he went against Your "will" when he sinned." What a bunch of malarkey! :rolleyes:

On the other hand, when we understand that God allows mankind to reject Him when they restrain / suppress the truth in unrighteousness, they have no excuse. Come judgment day, when the unbeliever stands before God, he or she will know that God reached out to him / her and he / she rejected Him. No excuse. "Yep, God, I understand you reached out to me and I rejected you when I suppressed Your truth in unrighteousness."
 

Slayer

Active member
Jul 23, 2018
724
122
43
#12
Yes, I know ... that is what you have to believe because you do not believe God allows mankind to reject Him.

Because of this, you give those who end up in the lake of fire an excuse when they stand before God come judgment day.

They can tell God "Well God, I did exactly as you "willed" for me. My whole life I lived a life of sin because that was your "will" for me. Meanwhile, the believer over there sinned against Your "will" for him. You can see I was more faithful to Your "will" than the believer. Therefore, the believer should be thrown in the lake of fire because he went against Your "will" when he sinned." What a bunch of malarkey! :rolleyes:

On the other hand, when we understand that God allows mankind to reject Him when they restrain / suppress the truth in unrighteousness, they have no excuse. Come judgment day, when the unbeliever stands before God, he or she will know that God reached out to him / her and he / she rejected Him. No excuse. "Yep, God, I understand you reached out to me and I rejected you when I suppressed Your truth in unrighteousness."
There's one slight problem with your assessment of how predestination works.

The only difference between the believer and the non believer is one has the gift which causes him to respond by believing the Gospel when he hears it and the other rejects it because he has n ot been given the gift to believe. That's all there is to it.

I have no idea where you got the idea that God created a person to sin, they chose to sin because they don't respect Gods commandments. They rebel against God so God must judge them, there's no way you can prove using any scripture that God is the author of sin. Men sin because we are fallen and we all deserve judgement, but God chose to save some for His own glory and not because we deserve it.

Ephesians 1:3-14
just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him In love Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will.

2 Thessalonians 2:13-15
But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth. It was for this He called you through our gospel, that you may gain the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught, whether by word of mouth or by letter from us.

2 Timothy 1:9
who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was granted us in Christ Jesus from all eternity,

Romans 9:15-24
For He says to Moses, "I WILL HAVE MERCY ON WHOM I HAVE MERCY, AND I WILL HAVE COMPASSION ON WHOM I HAVE COMPASSION." So then it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy. For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, "FOR THIS VERY PURPOSE I RAISED YOU UP, TO DEMONSTRATE MY POWER IN YOU, AND THAT MY NAME MIGHT BE PROCLAIMED THROUGHOUT THE WHOLE EARTH."

Exodus 33:19
And He said, "I Myself will make all My goodness pass before you, and will proclaim the name of the LORD before you; and I will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will show compassion on whom I will show compassion."
 
Mar 23, 2016
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#13
There's one slight problem with your assessment of how predestination works.
Please provide your definition of predestination.

Thank you.




Slayer said:
The only difference between the believer and the non believer is one has the gift which causes him to respond by believing the Gospel when he hears it and the other rejects it because he has n ot been given the gift to believe. That's all there is to it.
How does the "one has the gift which causes him to respond by believing the Gospel when he hears it" get this "gift"?




Slayer said:
I have no idea where you got the idea that God created a person to sin, they chose to sin because they don't respect Gods commandments.
How can they choose to not sin if God decides that He will not give "the gift which causes him to respond by believing when he hears it"? They have no choice but sin.




Slayer said:
They rebel against God so God must judge them, there's no way you can prove using any scripture that God is the author of sin. Men sin because we are fallen and we all deserve judgement, but God chose to save some for His own glory and not because we deserve it.
How does God "choose" to save some? What is His criteria for saving some?
 

Slayer

Active member
Jul 23, 2018
724
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#14
Please provide your definition of predestination.

Thank you.





How does the "one has the gift which causes him to respond by believing the Gospel when he hears it" get this "gift"?





How can they choose to not sin if God decides that He will not give "the gift which causes him to respond by believing when he hears it"? They have no choice but sin.





How does God "choose" to save some? What is His criteria for saving some?
I think Ephesians 1:11 answers your question, In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

How does one get the Gift? God gives it, that how.

They do have a choice not to sin, nobody forces them. They chose to sin all by themselves, and yes not having the gift to believe the Gospel doesn't help their sinful state.

God's criteria for saving some and turning others over to their sins, is He done it for His own Glory.
 
Mar 23, 2016
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#15
They do have a choice not to sin, nobody forces them. They chose to sin all by themselves, and yes not having the gift to believe the Gospel doesn't help their sinful state.
So they do not have to suppress the truth in unrighteousness?




Slayer said:
God's criteria for saving some and turning others over to their sins, is He done it for His own Glory.
Not in agreement here, Slayer. I do not believe God desires to turn "others over to their sins" for "His own Glory". I believe His desire is that they would turn from their sin and confess Jesus Christ is Lord:


Philippians 2:

9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:

10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;

11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
 

Slayer

Active member
Jul 23, 2018
724
122
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#16
So they do not have to suppress the truth in unrighteousness?





Not in agreement here, Slayer. I do not believe God desires to turn "others over to their sins" for "His own Glory". I believe His desire is that they would turn from their sin and confess Jesus Christ is Lord:


Philippians 2:

9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:

10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;

11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
This comes down to the question of God's sovereign will over all things, including who is saved and who is not saved.

We believe God has full control over all things, including salvation itself. We ascribe all power and authority to God, we don't believe that God left the most important decision of salvation in the hands of fallen, sinful men. We believe He made that decision before He created the world.

You need to walk over so many verses of scripture to embrace the "free choice view". We can't just rationalize away all those scriptures to support the "free choice" movement, which takes the power of salvation away from God and gives it to sinful men.
 

Dayone

Junior Member
May 22, 2018
16
6
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#17
This comes down to the question of God's sovereign will over all things, including who is saved and who is not saved.

We believe God has full control over all things, including salvation itself. We ascribe all power and authority to God, we don't believe that God left the most important decision of salvation in the hands of fallen, sinful men. We believe He made that decision before He created the world.

You need to walk over so many verses of scripture to embrace the "free choice view". We can't just rationalize away all those scriptures to support the "free choice" movement, which takes the power of salvation away from God and gives it to sinful men.
It seems to me if I were to believe your point of view as a christian father I would like to have a little more reassurance about my children salvation..... Please don't get me wrong but I have total trust and faith in the Lord that He will keep His hand upon my children. I have dedicated them to Him( not at church) but to Him personally... I truly believe I will answer to the Lord on how I raised my children..... Theirs such a great responsibility that God has given me to lead and guide my children to him..... Why if their salvation is already determined? ( don't worry I understand talking about children can be sensitive subject but please feel free to respond no hard feelings here)

Prov: 22:6. Train up a child in the way he should go, And when he is old he will not depart from it. I know its not a promise but a great word of wisdom with really great results.... I receive my children as a charge from the Lord..
So what's the point if there salvation is already set?

Sorry for my grammar lol
 

Dayone

Junior Member
May 22, 2018
16
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#18
I'm just curious what are your thoughts on these verses...
1 Corinthians 7:12-16
But to the rest I, not the Lord , say: if any brother has has a wife who does not believe, and she is willing to live with him, let him not divorce her. 13 And a woman who has a husband who does not believe, if he is welling to live with her, let her not divorce him. 14. For the unbelieving husband is sanctified(set apart) by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband; other wise your children would be unclean, but now are holy. But if the unbeliever departs, let him depart; a brother or sister is not under bondage in such a case. But God has called us to peace. 16. For how do you know, O wife, whether you will save your husband? Or how do you know, O husband, whether you will save your wife?
It really seems to me that there's a very strong influence one can have on a unbeliever spouse who is skeptical.... On making a decision to believe in Christ.....
 

Dayone

Junior Member
May 22, 2018
16
6
3
#19
Don't we want our love one's to make the right DECISIONS About Jesus Christ?
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
13,000
1,373
113
#20
This comes down to the question of God's sovereign will over all things, including who is saved and who is not saved.

We believe God has full control over all things, including salvation itself. We ascribe all power and authority to God, we don't believe that God left the most important decision of salvation in the hands of fallen, sinful men. We believe He made that decision before He created the world.

You need to walk over so many verses of scripture to embrace the "free choice view". We can't just rationalize away all those scriptures to support the "free choice" movement, which takes the power of salvation away from God and gives it to sinful men.
So did you just wake up one day and decide that you were elect? Did you actually have a conversion experience or simply arrive at an intellectual conclusion that you are elect and thereby saved?

Did you ever acknowledge your sin before the Lord and ask Him to for give you for your sin?

For the cause of Christ
Roger